Sorry don't buy this, as passengers are "riding" through a less desirable part of town when on the train. Especially the Blue/Green lines.  Or are you saying passengers perception is different when riding the train than riding on a bus?

 

My perception is different when riding the train than riding a bus.  I don't know why.  Maybe it's that there are fewer stops.  Maybe it's that the train cars are further from the street.

There's a perception on the train that you're separated from the neighborhood you're passing through that you don't have on the bus. It's a very different experience riding the Blue line through kinsman than riding the bus. Just like walking down a street at night by yourself is a different experience than riding on the bus. It's all perception.

 

However, I don't think a bus ride to get back to one's car, regardless of what neighborhood one passes through, is inherently a "non-option".

For a person that doesn't ride the bus or train regularly, asking them to use one mode of transportation to get to the casino and a different one to get back is a waste of time, they're not going to do that much research if they have another realistic option. They might do it if parking was more expensive, but there's still plenty of cheap parking downtown. Plus there are taxis.

I don't have any data to back this up, so it's just my perception, but I think of riding a train through the cut west of Shaker Square and the series of bridges to East 55th as being FAR safer than riding a bus down Kinsman.

That is probably true, but the train gets unsavory characters too. For instance, on Monday late morning the Shaker rapid occupants got to witness a piece of trash endlessly yelling at an elderly couple for saying 'excuse me' as they entered, and then his swinging his bike in their direction as he got off a few stops later.

 

Point : there are $hitheads everywhere.

Is RTA or the city of Shaker Heights responsible for maintaining the Shaker and Green rapid station?  I feel since Shaker is the one that writes tickets and makes money off overnight parkers it should be their responsibility. I've been wondering because there has been glass scattered in one of the parking spots for about 6 weeks now and I imagine the Shaker police have passed it numerous timesaver done nothing. The stairwell on the north side also hasn't been lit for just as long.

 

RTA owns the property, builds and maintains the stations and provides the service. The police presence is cooperative.

 

I'll report this one now. Thanks

 

Thanks!!! Does Shaker share money from tickets with the RTA or does that solely fill their coffers?  I feel they're getting away with murder (I know quite a few people who have been ticketed overnight [including me] not knowing that there are only a few spots that permit it)  ticketing travelers but not maintaining what the policewoman stated was "a municipal lot."  No where is there a sign saying no parking at unmarked spots, and if you enter the station going westbound before Green you never see the "overnight parking here" spots.  If Shaker is going to be cryptic in their signage to make a buck or two they should at least share it with the RTA.

^I think you guys miss the point.  The issue isn't whether the bus is as "safe" as the Rapid, the issue is whether the existing all night bus services are adequate in serving late-night downtown visitors during a time when (esp on weekends) our downtown is drawing lots of people and creating parking/driving hassles?  The answer is: No.  For example, Shaker Square, the densest populated neighborhood in Cleveland has no late night bus service; so the Blue/Green Line Rapids stop running at midnight, there are ZERO alternatives.  The nearest all night bus service is the #14 Kinsman, which is over 1 mile away from Shaker Sq., ... and through some very rough neighborhoods... What about the car-less, poor and non-poor (even professional) Shaker Sq. residents who want to enjoy downtown late in the evening?  These folks are up you-know-what's creek w/o a paddle.  (forget the casino, Shaker Sq. needs some kind of 24/7 RTA service, bus or otherwise... but that's another issue).

 

... and yes, obviously the Rapid is much quicker than a bus and only stops at limited stops in rough neighborhoods.  At night, for example, Blue/Green trains can make it to Shaker Sq. from Tower City in as little as 10 mins, if the driver isn't lollygagging (which they often do) or the wacko train-auto signal system is going wild -- which it often does, slowing most trips these days.

 

Bottom line is, once again, RTA has the opportunity to really shine here and serve its riding public.  All trains go right to the door of our shiny new casino which is drawing tons of visitors, creating lots of downtown excitement … and, btw, is open all night, every night.  Let’s hope RTA does the right thing.

 

Just a little side note with an outsider's perspective.  This week, my parents were up from Florida.  On Thursday, they took the Green Line downtown to check out the casino and Indians game.  They told me that night that they were "impressed with how much has been done" to make riding the Rapid a nicer experience.  They went on to say that their driver on the way downtown was extremely personable and friendly, giving them plentiful and entertaining announcements over the loudspeaker about stops, weather, attractions, etc.  Just in case Jerry reads this, his name was Anthony (don't know any further information, I told them they should have gotten his Operator ID Number).  Also, they were pleased with the service at Tower City, as they were having some trouble with the machine to buy tickets, and they said a very friendly worker helped them figure it out.  With all we complain about things which are very hard to fix, little things like this are what really make an out-of-towner's experience with the Rapid more pleasant.

 

Its good they had a nice time and good experience!

 

But those infamous ticket machines...  ha!

Lol but you know the thing is those ticket machines aren't that hard to work or figure out it tells you step by step. Could it still be simplified? Yes, but it isn't as hard to use as people make it out to be. I read somewhere on UO that RTA is looking at other ATM's (Automated Ticket Machines) especially the ones in Boston which are supposedly one of the easiest ones to use. (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

I agree, while the ticketing machine isn't the easiest to use, it's definitely not the hardest either.  I was just in LA and we decided to try out the subway, the transit policeman ended up just giving us all-day passes because we were having so much trouble with the machine.  RTA's might not be too simple, but at least it walks you through the process.  And experienced RTA treveler's can aid the "helpless foreigner" out, bolstering our Midwest hospitality  :-D

^I think you guys miss the point.  The issue isn't whether the bus is as "safe" as the Rapid, the issue is whether the existing all night bus services are adequate in serving late-night downtown visitors during a time when (esp on weekends) our downtown is drawing lots of people and creating parking/driving hassles?  The answer is: No.  For example, Shaker Square, the densest populated neighborhood in Cleveland has no late night bus service; so the Blue/Green Line Rapids stop running at midnight, there are ZERO alternatives.  The nearest all night bus service is the #14 Kinsman, which is over 1 mile away from Shaker Sq., ... and through some very rough neighborhoods... What about the car-less, poor and non-poor (even professional) Shaker Sq. residents who want to enjoy downtown late in the evening?  These folks are up you-know-what's creek w/o a paddle.  (forget the casino, Shaker Sq. needs some kind of 24/7 RTA service, bus or otherwise... but that's another issue).

 

... and yes, obviously the Rapid is much quicker than a bus and only stops at limited stops in rough neighborhoods.  At night, for example, Blue/Green trains can make it to Shaker Sq. from Tower City in as little as 10 mins, if the driver isn't lollygagging (which they often do) or the wacko train-auto signal system is going wild -- which it often does, slowing most trips these days.

 

Bottom line is, once again, RTA has the opportunity to really shine here and serve its riding public.  All trains go right to the door of our shiny new casino which is drawing tons of visitors, creating lots of downtown excitement … and, btw, is open all night, every night.  Let’s hope RTA does the right thing.

 

IMO, if RTA had the money and the demand to operate all night they would.... they don't seem like evil to me.  In fact, almost every experience I've had with RTA has been great and I use RTA like Shaq uses the phrase "you know," but they can't do everything with the budget we give them.  I do think maybe a last call train for each line would be cool though, leaving around 2:30 so the drunkards from  WHD, E4, and the casino can get home without drunk driving/taxi

^I don't think RTA people are evil, either. 

Does RTA lease any space out for retail?

 

Seems an obvious way to increase revenues.

...just my perception, but I think of riding a train through the cut west of Shaker Square and the series of bridges to East 55th as being FAR safer than riding a bus down Kinsman.

 

You are correct -- each person's perception is different. Our research has shown that some people prefer a bus and strongly dislike boarding a train, while others are exactly the opposite. Perhaps it is because the bus operator greets each person at the front door, while many never see their rail operator.

^I don't think RTA people are evil, either. 

 

Why thank you.

Does RTA lease any space out for retail? Seems an obvious way to increase revenues.

 

RTA does lease some space inside Windermere for a diner (please check it out), and leases some space inside a former station -- I believe it is Coventry. When Joe Calabrese became CEO in 2000, he found that RTA both paid rent for some spaces, and leased some spaces. Over the years, RTA moved toward being rent-free, and several years ago, we reached that goal. All services are now operated in buildings that we own.

You are correct -- each person's perception is different. Our research has shown that some people prefer a bus and strongly dislike boarding a train, while others are exactly the opposite. Perhaps it is because the bus operator greets each person at the front door, while many never see their rail operator.

 

There's always exceptions out there. But all the research I've seen is that people strong prefer rail -- it is the transit mode of choice for those who have a choice in how they travel. And for transit to be more politically and economically relevant, it needs to be more relevant to those who have a choice in how to travel. Otherwise transit will always be playing the survival game.

Does RTA lease any space out for retail? Seems an obvious way to increase revenues.

 

RTA does lease some space inside Windermere for a diner (please check it out), and leases some space inside a former station -- I believe it is Coventry. When Joe Calabrese became CEO in 2000, he found that RTA both paid rent for some spaces, and leased some spaces. Over the years, RTA moved toward being rent-free, and several years ago, we reached that goal. All services are now operated in buildings that we own.

 

Interesting! Thanks Jerry.

 

p.s. For what it's worth, if there was a kiosk selling juice or decent coffee - like Phoenix :) @ 117 Rapid I would definitely support it.

Does RTA lease any space out for retail? Seems an obvious way to increase revenues.

 

RTA does lease some space inside Windermere for a diner (please check it out), and leases some space inside a former station -- I believe it is Coventry. When Joe Calabrese became CEO in 2000, he found that RTA both paid rent for some spaces, and leased some spaces. Over the years, RTA moved toward being rent-free, and several years ago, we reached that goal. All services are now operated in buildings that we own.

The space on Coventry used to be a SOHIO Gas Station.  It was also a flower shop and a hair salon.  RTA does have the Michaels AKA "shack on the tracks" at shaker square.

The space on Coventry used to be a BP Gas Station.  It was also a flower shop and a hair salon.  RTA does have the Michaels AKA "shack on the tracks" at shaker square.

 

When was the Green Line station at Coventry and Shaker ever a BP gas station??

^yeah I have no memory of that and find it somewhat strange....and if it was that long ago I would imagine if would have been SOHIO not BP.

The space on Coventry used to be a BP Gas Station.  It was also a flower shop and a hair salon.  RTA does have the Michaels AKA "shack on the tracks" at shaker square.

 

When was the Green Line station at Coventry and Shaker ever a BP gas station??

 

I should have said SOHIO.  The station was there, in the early days of the shaker rapid.  SOHIO used to serve as the in house gas station for MC as well.

Many of the nice new Red Line rail stations are large enough to house retail, esp coffee/donut shops on site.  I believe the Lynnfield Rapid stop houses a beauty shop.

You are correct -- each person's perception is different. Our research has shown that some people prefer a bus and strongly dislike boarding a train, while others are exactly the opposite. Perhaps it is because the bus operator greets each person at the front door, while many never see their rail operator.

 

There's always exceptions out there. But all the research I've seen is that people strong prefer rail -- it is the transit mode of choice for those who have a choice in how they travel. And for transit to be more politically and economically relevant, it needs to be more relevant to those who have a choice in how to travel. Otherwise transit will always be playing the survival game.

 

Agreed.

I was reading the article on the Atlanta Streetcar getting approved and it made me wonder about Cleveland getting it. Obviously we can't get it on Euclid but I was wondering if it would be feasible for St.Clair and Superior our other two busy streets. Looking at how Atlanta applied for a grant got approved and will soon set up a network of Streetcars throughout the area I thought about how much faster, more efficient and feasible it would be to have them here in Cleveland as well. I feel like travel down those streets would be faster than what we have with the healthline and could have a positive effect like the Healthline had. Just a suggestion that could hopefully be done down the road, anyone have an opinion on this?

 

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/article/A-streetcar-they-desired--30535

Does RTA lease any space out for retail? Seems an obvious way to increase revenues.

 

RTA does lease some space inside Windermere for a diner (please check it out), and leases some space inside a former station -- I believe it is Coventry. When Joe Calabrese became CEO in 2000, he found that RTA both paid rent for some spaces, and leased some spaces. Over the years, RTA moved toward being rent-free, and several years ago, we reached that goal. All services are now operated in buildings that we own.

 

Sorry Jerry I meant to ask...has the leasing out of retail space been a financial boost for RTA?

 

And if so, can we someday see RTA properties expand retail (and maybe even residential) opportunities to grow along with increased passenger numbers?

if we dont upgrade the healthline with a streetcar which would be my first option, it never should have been a bus.

 

then we should.

 

2) close the loop with the waterfront line....there have been numerous ideas on exactly how/where to do this.

 

3) and 3A)  Run it down either Detroit or Lorain....  The east side has 3 rail lines and the health line.

 

4) run a red line extension from either 117 or West Blvd.  into lakewood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

if we dont upgrade the healthline with a streetcar which would be my first option, it never should have been a bus.

 

then we should.

 

2) close the loop with the waterfront line....there have been numerous ideas on exactly how/where to do this.

 

3) and 3A)  Run it down either Detroit or Lorain....  The east side has 3 rail lines and the health line.

 

4) run a red line extension from either 117 or West Blvd.  into lakewood.

I'm for any of this except moving the healthline because the westside has an articulated bus of their own with the number 22/26 going down Clifton so they can adjust this to go down a different road or make it just like the healthline. I agree though that the healthline should have been a streetcar from the beginning. I read somewhere though that RTA thought about bulding a subway system but it was too expensive and the demand for rail wasn't there at the moment.

 

Here's the #22/26 articulated bus:

Speaking of the Healthline what is the expected life span on those buses? The have been around for four years now and have started to rack up MAJOR mileage. The wear and tear on them are also starting to show with the LCD Scrolls inside either both being off or one, the mirrors inside falling off or being loose, the stop requested strips not working either with just a few not working or an entire section (the front or back). Also the navigation is off on some. I would also point out how bad it looks that RTA fixes some defects with the bus with DUCT TAPE on the outside of the bus or the inside it's extremely tacky and a bad look. I know buses will take a beating but the Healthline seems to be getting neglected, and for this to be the "major RTA jewel" and highly touted it should not be this way or in this condition. Imagine how tourist who may want to take the bus would perceive a broken bus on a basically new route. Also the stations could use some fixing with the LCD screens being off, hopefully JetDog can address this or someone from RTA.

I also on Tuesday at about 3:30 saw a 2100 series bus riding down 9th by the North Coast Harbor Station. I thought these were discontinued in favor of the 2200-2800 Nabi buses and 2900-3000 series of New Flyers? Are these used as shuttles to the rock hall etc. now because I saw passengers on it..

What's this about running the 22/26 on Clifton? That's pretty out of the way and it removes significant transit service from the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood.

 

Rail was not pursued in the Euclid Corridor because GCRTA and the City of Cleveland could not get NOACA's Board of Trustees to support making an application of federal funding for it. The suburban and exurban board members doubted that the region could raise the $500 million needed to build the rail line with a subway from Tower City to CSU. They worried GCRTA would cannibalize its countywide bus system to pay for it (since little or no state funding was likely) and would be unable to get the federal funds. Some in Pittsburgh (where the commonwealth is more generous with transit funding than Ohio is) believe PAT is cannibalizing its bus system to pay for the North Shore Connector subway, but that ignores the decline in local and state funding. And in hindsight, NOACA's board was probably right about the federal funding constraints because federal New Starts funding was drying up at the time and the shelf-life of GCRTA's planning work probably would have "expired" by the time more New Starts funding was restored. If it wasn't for the efforts of Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones to fight to preserve funding for the Euclid Corridor, it is highly unlikely we would have even gotten the BRT. In fact, I seem to recall that the Euclid Corridor was the only new project added to the New Starts list a decade ago.

 

Of course, we've discussed this about a half-dozen times in the HealthLine thread and probably in a couple of other Cleveland transit threads.

What's this about running the 22/26 on Clifton? That's pretty out of the way and it removes significant transit service from the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood.

 

Rail was not pursued in the Euclid Corridor because GCRTA and the City of Cleveland could not get NOACA's Board of Trustees to support making an application of federal funding for it. The suburban and exurban board members doubted that the region could raise the $500 million needed to build the rail line with a subway from Tower City to CSU. They worried GCRTA would cannibalize its countywide bus system to pay for it (since little or no state funding was likely) and would be unable to get the federal funds. Some in Pittsburgh (where the commonwealth is more generous with transit funding than Ohio is) believe PAT is cannibalizing its bus system to pay for the North Shore Connector subway, but that ignores the decline in local and state funding. And in hindsight, NOACA's board was probably right about the federal funding constraints because federal New Starts funding was drying up at the time and the shelf-life of GCRTA's planning work probably would have "expired" by the time more New Starts funding was restored. If it wasn't for the efforts of Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones to fight to preserve funding for the Euclid Corridor, it is highly unlikely we would have even gotten the BRT. In fact, I seem to recall that the Euclid Corridor was the only new project added to the New Starts list a decade ago.

 

Of course, we've discussed this about a half-dozen times in the HealthLine thread and probably in a couple of other Cleveland transit threads.

My reason behind mentioning the #22/26 (and I thought it ran down Clifton guess not) was that instead of moving the Healthline to Detroit like the previous poster suggested that RTA could do was RTA could just create something similar to the Healthline as far as just paying at the stations before boarding to speed up service. Obviously it couldn't be the same as the HL because for one their are only 3 doors instead of 5 to pick passengers up, the funding for installing medians and making a Euclid Corridor Replica isn't their but I was thinking RTA could install ATM's at the stations that the 22/26 so passengers can board faster. It was just a suggestion

From downtown, the 26 runs west out Detroit Avenue to the west end of Lakewood (and some trips to Westgate) -- see: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4504.msg109589.html#msg109589

 

From downtown, the 22 runs across the Detroit-Superior bridge, turns south on West 25th, then goes west on Lorain Avenue to the West Park Rapid station -- see:  http://www.riderta.com/pdf/22.pdf

 

As for ridership data per route, see my old posting at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4504.msg109589.html#msg109589

 

A few things have changed since 2004, namely that the top route (the #326) has been split into their old east/west routes of the #3 (Superior) and the #26 (Detroit). It is possible that their ridership was also pretty evenly split. If so, then the top two routes after the #6 (now the HealthLine) are the #22/Lorain and the #1/St. Clair.

I moved the streetcar, LRT and other transit idea-making here:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2768.0.html

Didn't see this list apparently Cleveland's transit is average as it ranked 14th out of 25 which is a far cry from the #1 ranking in 2007, Columbus ranked 24th.

 

Study Ranks Transit Systems Of Major U.S. Cities

 

Riding public transportation saves individuals on average over $10,000 a year.[1]

Americans took over 10 billion trips on public transportation in 2011.[2]

The average annual number of vehicle miles traveled by young people (16 to 34-year-olds) in the U.S. decreased 23 percent between 2001 and 2009. [3]

 

Source: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1bKZS)

 

Ranking:

(1) New York (Transit Score: 81)

(2) San Francisco (Transit Score: 80)

(3) Boston (Transit Score: 74)

(4) Washington, DC (Transit Score: 69)

(5) Philadelphia (Transit Score: 68)

(6) Chicago (Transit Score: 65)

(7) Seattle (Transit Score: 59)

(8) Miami (Transit Score: 57)

(9) Baltimore (Transit Score: 57)

(10) Portland (Transit Score: 50)

(11) Los Angeles (Transit Score: 49)

(12) Milwaukee (Transit Score: 49)

(13) Denver (Transit Score: 47)

(14) Cleveland (Transit Score: 45)

(15) San Jose (Transit Score; 40)

(16) Dallas (Transit Score: 39)

(17) Houston (Transit Score: 36)

(18) San Diego (Transit Score: 36)

(19) San Antonio (Transit Score: 35)

(20) Kansas City (Transit Score: 34)

(21) Austin (Transit Score: 33)

(22) Sacramento (Transit Score: 32)

(23) Las Vegas (Transit Score: 32)

(24) Columbus (Transit Score: 29)

(25) Raleigh (Transit Score: 23)

 

Source: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1bKZS)

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/study-ranks-transit-systems-of-major-us-cities-149037465.html

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the 2007 award and this list weren't measuring the same things.  I never looked into it but I thought the award was service/operational related.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the 2007 award and this list weren't measuring the same things.  I never looked into it but I thought the award was service/operational related.

It may have been because this list accounts for the transit access for neighborhoods which actually makes a case for RTA to make rail expansion, add bus routes to neighborhoods etc.

Didn't see this list apparently Cleveland's transit is average as it ranked 14th out of 25 which is a far cry from the #1 ranking in 2007, Columbus ranked 24th.

 

Study Ranks Transit Systems Of Major U.S. Cities

 

Riding public transportation saves individuals on average over $10,000 a year.[1]

Americans took over 10 billion trips on public transportation in 2011.[2]

The average annual number of vehicle miles traveled by young people (16 to 34-year-olds) in the U.S. decreased 23 percent between 2001 and 2009. [3]

 

Source: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1bKZS)

 

Ranking:

(1) New York (Transit Score: 81)

(2) San Francisco (Transit Score: 80)

(3) Boston (Transit Score: 74)

(4) Washington, DC (Transit Score: 69)

(5) Philadelphia (Transit Score: 68)

(6) Chicago (Transit Score: 65)

(7) Seattle (Transit Score: 59)

(8) Miami (Transit Score: 57)

(9) Baltimore (Transit Score: 57)

(10) Portland (Transit Score: 50)

(11) Los Angeles (Transit Score: 49)

(12) Milwaukee (Transit Score: 49)

(13) Denver (Transit Score: 47)

(14) Cleveland (Transit Score: 45)

(15) San Jose (Transit Score; 40)

(16) Dallas (Transit Score: 39)

(17) Houston (Transit Score: 36)

(18) San Diego (Transit Score: 36)

(19) San Antonio (Transit Score: 35)

(20) Kansas City (Transit Score: 34)

(21) Austin (Transit Score: 33)

(22) Sacramento (Transit Score: 32)

(23) Las Vegas (Transit Score: 32)

(24) Columbus (Transit Score: 29)

(25) Raleigh (Transit Score: 23)

 

Source: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1bKZS)

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/study-ranks-transit-systems-of-major-us-cities-149037465.html

 

This belongs in the "stupid list" thread as this is an advertorial by Walk Score.

 

This is not the same as, the yearly list provided by American Public Transportation Association.

Didn't see this list apparently Cleveland's transit is average as it ranked 14th out of 25 which is a far cry from the #1 ranking in 2007, Columbus ranked 24th.

 

Study Ranks Transit Systems Of Major U.S. Cities

 

Riding public transportation saves individuals on average over $10,000 a year.[1]

Americans took over 10 billion trips on public transportation in 2011.[2]

The average annual number of vehicle miles traveled by young people (16 to 34-year-olds) in the U.S. decreased 23 percent between 2001 and 2009. [3]

 

Source: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1bKZS)

 

Ranking:

(1) New York (Transit Score: 81)

(2) San Francisco (Transit Score: 80)

(3) Boston (Transit Score: 74)

(4) Washington, DC (Transit Score: 69)

(5) Philadelphia (Transit Score: 68)

(6) Chicago (Transit Score: 65)

(7) Seattle (Transit Score: 59)

(8) Miami (Transit Score: 57)

(9) Baltimore (Transit Score: 57)

(10) Portland (Transit Score: 50)

(11) Los Angeles (Transit Score: 49)

(12) Milwaukee (Transit Score: 49)

(13) Denver (Transit Score: 47)

(14) Cleveland (Transit Score: 45)

(15) San Jose (Transit Score; 40)

(16) Dallas (Transit Score: 39)

(17) Houston (Transit Score: 36)

(18) San Diego (Transit Score: 36)

(19) San Antonio (Transit Score: 35)

(20) Kansas City (Transit Score: 34)

(21) Austin (Transit Score: 33)

(22) Sacramento (Transit Score: 32)

(23) Las Vegas (Transit Score: 32)

(24) Columbus (Transit Score: 29)

(25) Raleigh (Transit Score: 23)

 

Source: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1bKZS)

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/study-ranks-transit-systems-of-major-us-cities-149037465.html

 

This belongs in the "stupid list" thread as this is an advertorial by Walk Score.

 

This is not the same as, the yearly list provided by American Public Transportation Association.

By the way did that list come out yet?

if we dont upgrade the Healthline with a streetcar which would be my first option, it never should have been a bus, then we should.

2) close the loop with the Waterfront Line....there have been numerous ideas on exactly how/where to do this.

3) and 3A)  Run it down either Detroit or Lorain....  The East Side has 3 rail lines and the HealthLine.

4) run a Red Line extension from either 117 or West Blvd.  into Lakewood.

 

The history of transit on Euclid Ave. goes back many, many years. About the only Cleveland leader who never weighed in with an opinion was Moses Cleaveland. As some of you may know, the Dual Hub Corrdor became the Euclid Corridor Improvement Project, then the Euclid Corridor Transportation Project, then, in October 2008, became the HealthLine (cap H, cap L, no spaces).

 

In the early days of the ECIP, plans were to drape overhead wire along Euclid Ave, which would have been a costly eyesore. When RTA officials saw the BRT technology in Europe, they adopted it, and immediately shaved $30+ million off the project cost. The project is greatly successful, from a funding standpoint, local development, ridership and FTA blessing.

 

Any expansion takes federal funds, and generally, the feds look at areas that have growing populations. Cleveland does not. They funded the BRT project here because we could prove it would deliver more service at less cost.

 

You can talk about expanding the system all you want, but we must look at some hard realities when deciding to go with "A" over "B."

 

In the past, KJP has responded with a list of cities that received federal funds and are not growing. I suspect he will do that again.

 

You can talk about expanding the system all you want, but we must look at some hard realities when deciding to go with "A" over "B."

 

In the past, KJP has responded with a list of cities that received federal funds and are not growing. I suspect he will do that again.

 

 

... don't know them all, but I know St. Louis has made extensive expansions to its rail system in the last decade.  Pittsburgh, of course, just opened its massive ($600+M) North Shore connector, which includes subway, elevated and an uber expensive tunnel under the Allegheny River... Both those cities, like Cleveland, have lost lots of population, both in their central cities, but also in their close-in metro areas too.  As an earlier post noted, re the HL, that we didn't expand rail because we were denied Fed funds but, instead, we didn't expand because local officials couldn't agree (the usual city vs. suburbs tension) so RTA didn't even APPLY for the Federal funds.  Unfortunately, this lack of cooperation/agreement has been the pattern of Cleveland (and Detroit and the other Ohio Cs) outside of the small expansions of the Airport (1968) and Waterfront Line (1996 -- state, not federal, grant) ... both of which, btw, were built during eras of steep Cleveland population losses.

In the past, KJP has responded with a list of cities that received federal funds and are not growing. I suspect he will do that again.

 

I have? Maybe I did and don't remember. In any event, I don't know what those cities would be.  Perhaps Pittsburgh and St. Louis are two of them, as clvndr notes.

 

But I do know that many cities have undertaken transit expansions without tapping federal funds, such as using turnkey private sector design-build initiatives, tax-improvement financing districts, and local/state tax-supported projects. Indeed, as federal funding becomes more scarce and local officials grow impatient with federal NEPA laws/compliance timelines, locally/regionally funded initiatives will continue to grow in popularity in regions interested in redesigning themselves to accommodate a less mobile baby boom generation and millennials more interested in walking/biking/transit.

 

Those regions that do not redesign themselves around the needs of the nation's two largest demographic groups in its history, and which comprise half of Northeast Ohio's population, will sputter economically.

Jerry/JetDog,

 

The promo for the Rib Cookoff seems really nice.  Glad RTA is doing it; great the Waterfront Line's hours have been extended to match the cookoff's... 1 question: will the WFL service be the usual (terrible) every 1/2 hour or every 15 minutes, using both Blue and Green Line trains onto the WFL?

 

 

RTA news

May 4, 2012

 

Ride RTA Rapid Free to Settler's Landing for Cook-Off/Aquarium Events

 

CLEVELAND – It’s easy to attend both the 21st Annual Marc’s Great American Rib Cook-Off & Music Festival, and the new Greater Cleveland Aquarium, via RTA during Memorial Day weekend, Friday-Monday, May 25-28, 2012. Both attractions are located on the West Bank of the Flats.

 

Free shuttle buses will take patrons from RTA’s Settler’s Landing Rapid Station on the Waterfront Line on the East Bank of the Flats directly to the entrances of the Cook-off and Aquarium. These free shuttles, provided by Live Nation and the Aquarium, will also pick up patrons from parking areas near Settler's Landing.

 

The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (RTA) is providing free Rapid rides throughout the weekend for those attending the Cook-Off and/or Aquarium, when customers exit at Settler's Landing only. Follow RTA personnel to the Waterfront Line, if you need to transfer.

 

http://www.riderta.com/newsroom/releases/?listingid=1725

 

 

RTA has millions of dollars needed to fix Red Line trouble spots

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Two longtime trouble spots on RTA's Red Line rapid are scheduled for fixes totaling about $14 million. The tunnel to the airport will be closed for repairs for four to six months, starting late this year or early 2013. Buses will shuttle riders between the station at Brookpark Road and the airport while the tunnel is closed, officials said.

 

RTA has been designing repairs and pooling federal and state money for several years to fix the two sections of rail line.

 

The transit agency learned last week that it will receive $2 million from the Ohio Department of Transportation, the last chunk of money needed to pay for repairs to the Red Line tunnel to the airport.

 

Crews will replace rail lines and realign the overhead power system. 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/05/post_23.html

 

 

^Follow-up.  Me and the SO took the Green Line down to the Flats (Settler's Landing) to the Rib Cook-Off, which itself was a very fun, pleasant event... We walked over the Center Street bridge in the Memorial Day (90s) heat -- it's one of the more interesting walks in Cleveland although I wish the City would fix it up with lighting and other pathway amenities... After the Cook-Off, we took the shuttle back (the SO was griping about what the sweat was doing to her precious doo).  The shuttle buses were lined up and moving every couple minutes, so there was virtually no wait.  And once we got back to Settler's Landing, there was little wait for the trains -- either line (Blue/Green) worked b/c we stopped off at Tower City and stopped into the casino (more people watching than gambling) -- so RTA sent all the Blue and Green Line trains through to the Waterfront Line... as they always should when the WFL is in operation imho.

 

The operation went off without a hitch.  A healthy no. people used the trains.  People were happy... Nice job by RTA.

 

^ Thanks for the note. I shared it with the staff.

I just received an off-list message from a new poster who asked if I worked for RTA. From time to time, I guess I should mention that for those new to the list. Yes, I work for RTA, and you are welcome to contact me directly if you wish.

 

Jerry Masek

Manager of Publications

RTA Marketing

216-566-5173

[email protected]

 

JetDog is also an RTA employee, as most of you know.

can you take bikes on the rapid?  (including switching trains at tower city)

can you take bikes on the rapid?  (including switching trains at tower city)

YES

 

http://www.riderta.com/racknroll/

awesome - thanks !

:wtf:

I Looked at the new schedule for the Green/Blue line. There is no South Harbor(Waterfront) times for the Weekday. It's there for the Saturday-Sunday schedule. I thought the Waterfront line runs on Weekdays?

RTA ended weekday Waterfront Line service in 2010 due to low patronage and budget cuts.  They've pledged to bring it back next year when the Flats East Bank high-rise project opens.

They ended all but rush-hour and special event service in late 2008. Then it became weekends/special event-only less than two years later.