I don't think he is necessarily blaming RTA, but saying that it seems like something always goes wrong at the worst timing for RTA.

I don't think he is necessarily blaming RTA, but saying that it seems like something always goes wrong at the worst timing for RTA.

 

Good call. 

 

In a case like this, the stereotype is reinforced that the system is fragile and therefore unreliable.  Regardless of the actual fault.

 

Though it would have been worse on the west side as it seems more people will take the rapid to games from there.

I don't think he is necessarily blaming RTA, but saying that it seems like something always goes wrong at the worst timing for RTA.

 

Something always seems to go wrong at the worst time for everything (roads, airports, etc) because those are the things we remember.

^Sh-t happens.  RTA's been pretty solid during Browns games.  St. Patrick's Day still seems dicey. 

In a case like this, the stereotype is reinforced that the system is fragile and therefore unreliable.  Regardless of the actual fault.

 

I'll remember that next time I'm stuck in traffic for an hour because some idiot got into an accident or because ODOT has lanes blocked for construction.

^Sh-t happens.  RTA's been pretty solid during Browns games.  St. Patrick's Day still seems dicey.

 

I won't use RTA for St Patricks day anymore as it is much faster, easier, and cheaper to drive. Traffic is never that bad on St Patricks day surprisingly.

 

It's not really RTA's fault, but our rapid system fails in the scenario of large events, which is really only St Patricks day in our situation. Having only one primary downtown rapid station(Tower City) makes it impossible to handle the crowds after the parade as everyone rushes into one location, which also happens to be a mall making it even worse.

 

I do feel RTA could use the waterfront line better, like having all Blue/Green line customers use those stations, but last time I checked they only sent blue line trains every 30 minutes minimum during the parade.

^Sh-t happens.  RTA's been pretty solid during Browns games.  St. Patrick's Day still seems dicey. 

 

Tailgating is still a big tradition at Browns games, which pretty much precludes transit usage.

 

They'd do better if the rapid had a park and ride lot on the East Side, in an area perceived as safe.

^Sh-t happens.  RTA's been pretty solid during Browns games.  St. Patrick's Day still seems dicey. 

 

Tailgating is still a big tradition at Browns games, which pretty much precludes transit usage.

 

They'd do better if the rapid had a park and ride lot on the East Side, in an area perceived as safe.

 

Yeah, I was just thinking - Green and Shaker is soooo unsafe.....?

^I'm going to give Erocc the benefit of the doubt and assume he was thinking of the Red Line lots only and forgot about the Blue/Green line ones. Because I'll cry if anyone is dumb enough to think Green and Shaker Blvd is unsafe.

^Sh-t happens.  RTA's been pretty solid during Browns games.  St. Patrick's Day still seems dicey. 

 

Tailgating is still a big tradition at Browns games, which pretty much precludes transit usage.

 

If you didn't have your assumptions would you have anything to say?....

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA 40m

It's time for another @Browns game! Take the Waterfront Line after work to Muni Lot to tailgate w/ us! Free hot dogs & Pepsi!

https://twitter.com/GCRTA

Tailgating is still a big tradition at Browns games, which pretty much precludes transit usage.

 

What?  Every time I have tailgated, I have ridden the rapid down.  And plenty of other people get off at the Muni Lot stop as well.

BTW, expanded service on the #41 which runs mostly on Warrensville from Windermere with daytime trips going east of Southgate on Aurora Road to Solon. GCRTA started overnight service (24 hours) Windermere-Southgate this past summer....

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA 1h

Thx for riding the #41! Effective Mon 10/7, several trips to be added to weekday schedule! NB and SB trips due to the growing ridership! :)

They'd do better if the rapid had a park and ride lot on the East Side, in an area perceived as safe.[/color]

 

I even know people from Geauga County who use the Green Rd. park-n-ride, if that tells you anything about its perceived safety.  I'm assuming you forgot about the Blue/Green lines though.

^Sh-t happens.  RTA's been pretty solid during Browns games.  St. Patrick's Day still seems dicey. 

 

Tailgating is still a big tradition at Browns games, which pretty much precludes transit usage.

 

They'd do better if the rapid had a park and ride lot on the East Side, in an area perceived as safe.

 

Incorrect on point 1.

 

point 2: which lots Are "perceived" as unsafe?

They'd do better if the rapid had a park and ride lot on the East Side, in an area perceived as safe.[/color]

point 2: which lots Are "perceived" as unsafe?

Windermere is definitely perceived that way. Also while it's fine in daylight, but I could see people being nervous at the Euclid park & ride in the evening because of it's isolation.

 

What?  Every time I have tailgated, I have ridden the rapid down.  And plenty of other people get off at the Muni Lot stop as well.

 

I've never tried that ... it sounds like fun.  I guess RTA riders (like you) coordinate (and pitch in) with their driving friends in Muni Lot... Kudos to RTA for the free dogs and Pepsi.

BTW, expanded service on the #41 which runs mostly on Warrensville from Windermere with daytime trips going east of Southgate on Aurora Road to Solon. GCRTA started overnight service (24 hours) Windermere-Southgate this past summer....

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA 1h

Thx for riding the #41! Effective Mon 10/7, several trips to be added to weekday schedule! NB and SB trips due to the growing ridership! :)

 

Awesome.  The 41's a very busy route.

They'd do better if the rapid had a park and ride lot on the East Side, in an area perceived as safe.[/color]

 

I even know people from Geauga County who use the Green Rd. park-n-ride, if that tells you anything about its perceived safety.  I'm assuming you forgot about the Blue/Green lines though.

 

Naw.  Didn't realize they had a P&R lot there. 

^Sh-t happens.  RTA's been pretty solid during Browns games.  St. Patrick's Day still seems dicey.

 

I won't use RTA for St Patricks day anymore as it is much faster, easier, and cheaper to drive. Traffic is never that bad on St Patricks day surprisingly.

 

It's not really RTA's fault, but our rapid system fails in the scenario of large events, which is really only St Patricks day in our situation. Having only one primary downtown rapid station(Tower City) makes it impossible to handle the crowds after the parade as everyone rushes into one location, which also happens to be a mall making it even worse.

 

I do feel RTA could use the waterfront line better, like having all Blue/Green line customers use those stations, but last time I checked they only sent blue line trains every 30 minutes minimum during the parade.

 

Bingo!  RTA could/should do this -- they could double the frequency with longer trains (3-cars) as if it were rush hour... Downtown's really small in area, and encouraging Shaker-bound riders to head to W. 3rd, the Flats ... or even up E. 9th to avoid the crowds would take tons of pressure off Tower City.  I think RTA should, next St. Paddy's day, experiment with through rides -- to/from the Waterfront Line without stopping.  Even if West Sider riders didn't get the message, they could still transfer back  West at either 34th or 55th Streets.

GCRTA retweeted this at about 7:15am today...

 

"@SullivanTraffic: @GCRTA RED LINE service East and West from Airport is on a 30 minute delay @19ActionNews #CLEtraffic"

I have a few questions concerning the 5-trip farecard and the Red line 'fare paid zone' (FPZ)

 

Question #1

 

I insert a newly purchased 5-trip farecard into a TVM at the Westpark rapid station. It activates but does not print anything on the card. So I insert it into the other TVM just to see what happens and the screen displays a message (can't remember the exact wording) that the current trip is active, no further action is required, four trips remaining. Now I'm wondering what would happen if I was asked to show proof of payment to an inspector. Do the fare inspectors carry a portable farecard reader to verify questionable farecards?

 

Question #2

 

Lets say I activate a 5-trip farecard at 12:00 noon. The expiration time stamped is 2:30 PM. During the course of the trip, I arrive at the Tower City Red line station at 2:10 PM, swiped the farecard at the turnstile, and enter the FPZ and realized I just missed the train. So I waited another 15 minutes for the next train. At the W.65th station a group fare inspectors board the train amd asks everyone to show their farecards. Of course, by now my trip has expired. Will I be charged a violation fare?

 

The way I understand it, a 5-trip farecard has unlimited transfers for 2 1/2 hour and entering a FPZ constitute a "transfer".

And since the trip was active at the time, I should be OK. OTOH, the rules governing the FPZ requires a "current" proof of payment to be in your possession at all times. So what would happen in this case?

 

Question #3

 

Assuming the answer to Q2 is that I will be charged a violation fare, is there a way to "pre-activate" the next trip. Keep in mind that in Q1 inserting a farecard with an active trip results in a message that no further action is required. OTOH, if the TVM detects that the current trip will expire in x minutes, will it offer to activate the next trip and if so, what is the value of x?

 

Great informative signage in Cleveland Hopkins Airport. Much better than the preceding sign that had only an RTA logo which didn't mean anything to visitors. Trains depart every 15 minutes from INSIDE the main terminal.

 

Some people younger than 50 sometimes ask me what those steel structures are along the Cleveland Red Line. These supported overhead electric wires that fed juice to up to 90 electrically powered passenger trains a day from 1930-53 into Cleveland Union Terminal, most notable for its Terminal Tower. Trains continued under diesel power until 1977.

 

Great informative signage in Cleveland Hopkins Airport. Much better than the preceding sign that had only an RTA logo which didn't mean anything to visitors. Trains depart every 15 minutes from INSIDE the main terminal.

 

 

HUGE upgrade!

to jhrvcleve -- I will seek an answer to your fare questions on Tuesday.

Copied from above:

 

I have a few questions concerning the 5-trip farecard and the Red line 'fare paid zone' (FPZ)

 

Question #1

I insert a newly purchased 5-trip farecard into a TVM at the West Park Rapid Station. It activates, but does not print anything on the card. So I insert it into the other TVM just to see what happens and the screen displays a message (can't remember the exact wording) that the current trip is active, no further action is required, four trips remaining. Now I'm wondering what would happen if I was asked to show proof of payment to an inspector. Do the fare inspectors carry a portable farecard reader to verify questionable farecards?

 

A: Transit Police officers are aware of the 5-trip farecard issue. If there is a question, they would check the card on the farebox on-board HealthLine vehicles.  At Red Line Stations, they would check the card in another TVM.  At Tower City, the card is activated and will work in the gate/turnstile.

 

Question #2

 

Let's say I activate a 5-trip farecard at noon. The expiration time stamped is 2:30 PM. During the course of the trip, I arrive at the Tower City Red line station at 2:10 PM, swiped the farecard at the turnstile, and enter the FPZ and realized I just missed the train. So I waited another 15 minutes for the next train. At the W. 65th station, a group fare inspectors board the train and asks everyone to show their farecards. Of course, by now my trip has expired. Will I be charged a violation fare?

 

The way I understand it, a 5-trip farecard has unlimited transfers for 2 1/2 hour and entering a FPZ constitutes a "transfer".

 

And since the trip was active at the time, I should be OK. On the other hand, the rules governing the FPZ requires a "current" proof of payment to be in your possession at all times. So what would happen in this case?

 

A: Fare enforcement officers would be aware of the time issue, so No, you would not get a violation fare.

 

Question #3

 

Assuming the answer to Q-2 is that I will be charged a violation fare, is there a way to "pre-activate" the next trip. Keep in mind that in Q-1 inserting a farecard with an active trip results in a message that no further action is required. On the other hand, if the TVM detects that the current trip will expire in x minutes, will it offer to activate the next trip and if so, what is the value of x?

 

A: You cannot pre-activate trips but you do not have to worry.  Fare inspectors allow sufficient time to complete any trip if you board the system prior to the expiration of the transfer.

Now that RTA has (happily) returned the Waterfront Line to daily service, and some E&W workers are using it to/from their new office tower, RTA seriously needs to improve signage inside Tower City.  ... whoops, did I say "improve"...that's the wrong word, because there's NONE there currently, besides the general Blue-Green-Waterfront sign that, at minimum, gets passengers to the correct station entrance (as opposed to the Red Line on the West side of the station)....

 

But once inside the station, there's no directional signs at all for the Waterfront Line.  In fact, Blue and Green platforms aren't all that well marked either.  There is that new-ish gold-lettered digital sign, but it's not always in-use or accurate.  During evening rush hour, there's usually a station announcer telling of the correct track for a Blue or Green Line train... But nothing for Waterfront line trains... Whenever I get on/stay on a WFL train at Tower City, the driver will always pivot to make sure I want to go to the Waterfront... Makes sense, because frequently, passengers thinking their heading east toward Shaker end up on WFL trains...  It's a confusing mess down there...

 

Jerry, JetDog, I hope RTA seriously addresses this, because it's terrible right now... and we need more than lip service.

And how about a direct transfer from the Red Line without having to exit and reenter?

^I have informed others about your concerns about the Waterfront Line. Thanks for sharing.

^Thanks Jerry.

@clvlndr -- at this point, why are we still calling it the waterfront line? it really is just an extension of the blue and green lines in which some of the trains stop at tower city and some stop further down the line. Could we clean this all up by getting rid of the waterfront line moniker and just say something like "blue line terminating at tower city" and "blue line terminating at waterfront (or whatever the name of the last stop is?)"

@clvlndr -- at this point, why are we still calling it the waterfront line? it really is just an extension of the blue and green lines in which some of the trains stop at tower city and some stop further down the line. Could we clean this all up by getting rid of the waterfront line moniker and just say something like "blue line terminating at tower city" and "blue line terminating at waterfront (or whatever the name of the last stop is?)"

 

Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. Good idea!

^ It has been branded the Waterfront Line. Some people might believe your suggestions don't hold any water. (bad pun intended)

 

Of course, you are correct in calling it an extenskion of the Blue Line. However, it is a unique 2.2 mile track with special attractions. When you say "Blue Line", I think of nice homes. When you say "Waterfront Line," I think of football and rock-n-roll and the air show.

 

I have not heard anyone inside RTA who is considering a name change.

I understand what you are saying--and I am not suggesting RTA is considering changing the name, but perhaps that they should consider changing the name, because when I think of the blue line and the waterfront line, I think that I am going to have to switch trains because they are different lines. And when people who aren't familiar with the system see two lines, they are going to be really confused when a blue line train pulls into the station and leaves as a waterfront line---let alone if they are not getting on on tower city.

 

I mean, imagine if the red line was west of tower city and the purple line was east of it

The Green Line also runs through to the Waterfront Line.

I agree it should be one line with a terminating signage on the car "tower City" or "North Harbor/Muni Lot" or whatever its called. 

 

Was in town last weekend staying at the Doubletree on Lakeside.  Took the waterfront line to TC to switch to Red to WSM.  Payment is confusing as hell...sorry RTA.  No way to buy an all day pass at E 9th station.  Paid $5 for 2 people on board..no change (I thought you paid when exiting at TC??).  Was told no transfers.  Got to TC, exited with whatever card the guy gave us.  THEN had to buy an all day pass to get on the Red for another $10 total.  Pay when you get on, pay when you get off, pay to get out of TC platform...its a mess.  $15 total for a ride to and from the WSM from Doubletree Hotel Downtown for 2 people.  We could have taken a cab and saved the hassle really.

 

Not to mention, I got up to exit WFL on the way back at Browns Stadium...as we pulled up I said, no wait...sorry we need E 9th station.  The driver was pissed and barked at me to sit back down.  Then getting off at E 9th he told us we needed to cross over to the other platform for some reason (maybe he thought we were going back to TC even though I said nothing of the sort??).  We were the only 2 people on the train btw, so its not like he had a million things going on.

 

Honestly, if I knew someone going to Cleveland...I'd be embarrassed to tell them to try and use the rail system.  It's confusing as hell to pay..expensive with no transfer, and the workers act as if you are a stupid tourist if you ask.  The $5 all day pass is a good deal and easier...at least you can swipe it for all the weird times you are stopped for payment exiting and entering stations and trains.  But useless if you board where one cannot be bought as we did.

^RTA's system is absurdly complex for its size.  Three different payment routines...  Transfer privileges for some fare media but not others... No way to purchase a round trip fare or return ticket for special events... The WFL branding...

 

I know its due in part to historical/practical reasons, but the end result is definitely kind of nuts.

^For sure!  Even if I had an all day pass to begin with...turnstyles at E 9th had gates open, no staff.  Ok so I guess we just walk on?  Driver on WFL stops us to dip the card on the train.  Swipe the card again to exit TC WFL, swipe again to enter Red.  Exit OC station, no turnstyles at all.  Board again at OC, no way to pay.  Douple swipes again at TC.  Then driver makes you dip it again aboard WFL to exit the train at E 9th.  My companion was thouroughly perplexed...just told him to do whatever they ask, the system is weird.

 

I'm familiar with the system somewhat (and have ridden systems all over the world), I feel sorry for out-of-towners that try to use it.

 

It's a shame, because the actual ride was quick and easy...no long waits at any point at all, and trains were clean.

^Given the POP system (with Tower City control point) and the weird pay-enter-eastbound/pay-exit-westbound system on the LRT, all the steps you mention "make sense," but it just points to the absurdity of employing two unconventional (for the U.S., anyway) systems on connecting lines. 

 

Several folks have said the same thing here already, but longer term, it would be swell if the entire rail system can be POP, with full ticket vending machines at every station and a transfer corridor b/w the LRT and Red Line platforms (and free transfers among the three rapid transit modes more broadly). I'd also keep the TC control gates to keep compliance levels high. Of course, these changes would require a significant cash outlay for new machines, installation, telecommunication hookups, etc.  I would add to the wish list a 2-ride (i.e., round trip) ticket option so visitors headed to special events don't feel ripped off having to buy an all day pass just for a round trip or get confused and buy two one-way tix upfront (both of which would be instantly activated, I believe).

^Personally I think the major stations should be manned and should have turnstiles. This keeps the system fast, safe, friendly, and cuts down on farehoppers.

 

Also I think it is time to update the automatic station voice thing. At East 105th it says "...and future home of the Juvenile Justice Center"

 

Overall the ride was fine, cars were clean, but in need of upgrading. I know its probably not RTA's responsibility, but something has to be done about the lights under the bridge over Euclid Avenue at the Euclid/East120th station. Its a long, uninviting bridge which is made even worse by having no lights/burnt out lights. At one section I couldn't even see the ground in front of me. Not a nice gateway into University Circle, and not a pleasant/safe walk for RTA customers using that station.

 

 

^As MTS would say, who have you contacted about this at the city so the problem can be fixed.  Complaining about it on this board is not going to solve the problem.

I just experienced it so nobody yet. Sorry for sharing my thoughts.

 

No discussion on this board is technically meaningful but that doesn't make it pointless or wrong. We complain for pages about the skywalk or about CSU building layouts. We discuss but we never make a difference. If that rule was actually implemented there would be nothing but news articles with no discussions making this site pointless.

I still don't understand the inability to transfer from Green/Blue to Red or vice versa at Tower City.  Someone mentioned it was for historical reasons? 

 

Couldn't this be solved with a walkway between the two platform lobbies?

I still don't understand the inability to transfer from Green/Blue to Red or vice versa at Tower City.  Someone mentioned it was for historical reasons? 

 

Couldn't this be solved with a walkway between the two platform lobbies?

 

Why would you want to?  Other than weather, that is.  Unless things have changed dramatically, it's easier at E. 34th.

^34th is a little scary at night. I prefer 55th.

^34th is a little scary at night. I prefer 55th.

 

That's my line!  :)

 

Still?  I wish that was more surprising.

 

I would have suggested 55th but I know it's been rebuilt and wasn't sure if it's been reconfigured.

I still don't understand the inability to transfer from Green/Blue to Red or vice versa at Tower City.  Someone mentioned it was for historical reasons? 

 

Couldn't this be solved with a walkway between the two platform lobbies?

 

Why would you want to?  Other than weather, that is.  Unless things have changed dramatically, it's easier at E. 34th.

 

Well, yes, weather is a factor.  And prestige. It is Cleveland's former Union Terminal.  The center of it all. 

There already is a walkway between the platforms. They use it for special events I believe but close them off the rest of the time.

 

Has the tower city station ever been heated? It's cold down there!

^Aren't the waiting rooms heated?

^Personally I think the major stations should be manned and should have turnstiles. This keeps the system fast, safe, friendly, and cuts down on farehoppers.

 

 

Staffed stations are way too expensive for a light-density rail system like ours.

 

 

Also I think it is time to update the automatic station voice thing. At East 105th it says "...and future home of the Juvenile Justice Center"

 

Oops!

 

 

Overall the ride was fine, cars were clean, but in need of upgrading.

 

Funny story.... A colleague of mine was in town from Washington DC a couple weeks ago. We rode all the rail lines in the system. We rode the light-rail lines last. When we got on board the trains, he remarked at nice the light-rail cars were. I told him they are actually several years older than the heavy-rail cars on the Red Line. He was stunned. It's amazing what a mid-life overhaul can do for your rolling stock!

 

I know its probably not RTA's responsibility, but something has to be done about the lights under the bridge over Euclid Avenue at the Euclid/East120th station. Its a long, uninviting bridge which is made even worse by having no lights/burnt out lights. At one section I couldn't even see the ground in front of me. Not a nice gateway into University Circle, and not a pleasant/safe walk for RTA customers using that station.

 

I hear ya. Yep, that's the city's responsibility. There's also lots of mud under there too that never seems to dry, given how long of an underpass that is and thus it gets no sunlight. There are eight, side-by-side railroad bridges overhead and they cross at an angle so it's a long, long walk under there. You might want to reach out to UCI, CWRU and to the councilman for that area (Kevin Conwell, who chairs the Safety Committee http://www.clevelandcitycouncil.org/ward-9.aspx).

 

RTA's interest making long-term improvements to this station is limited considering the station will be closed in two years after the new station opens at Little Italy-Mayfield.