I agree.  If RTA would have installed the electricity at the Shaker Stations back in the 80s this wouldn't be a problem today.  Because RTA didn't properly execute the rehabilitation of the Shaker Lines, we have deficiencies today!

 

So, as with finding your way through a maze, how do we reach our goal (consistent fare collections) within the confines of a less flexible system (while meeting goals they've already embraced and thus already want to see happen)?

 

Allow me to offer some advocacy 101 on this and other ideas and initiatives -- Sure, we can always avoid taking time and care to research what's already in the project/planning pipeline of an organization, corporation or agency we're attempting to influence. But think if someone came your organization and asked you to embrace their idea without bothering to find out what you're already working on and why. We all have lengthy to-do lists, and we are pursuing them often because we believe strongly in them, or because we must serve a constituency who is influential than you are. Now, as advocates, we can ask the target of our advocacy to add yet another item to their already lengthy to-do list and risk anger or even retaliation from them and their constituencies. If you are trying to cause change because you feel the organization you are attempting to influence is "wrong," then that will come through in your messages whether you intend them to or not. And that will force your audience to, at best, distrust you, and at worst, dig in and become defensive. Instead, find points of common interest or agreement and work from there. You will find that working with someone is more productive than vilifying them.

I agree.  If RTA would have installed the electricity at the Shaker Stations back in the 80s this wouldn't be a problem today.  Because RTA didn't properly execute the rehabilitation of the Shaker Lines, we have deficiencies today!

 

So, as with finding your way through a maze, how do we reach our goal (consistent fare collections) within the confines of a less flexible system (while meeting goals they've already embraced and thus already want to see happen)?

 

Allow me to offer some advocacy 101 on this and other ideas and initiatives -- Sure, we can always avoid taking time and care to research what's already in the project/planning pipeline of an organization, corporation or agency we're attempting to influence. But think if someone came your organization and asked you to embrace their idea without bothering to find out what you're already working on and why. We all have lengthy to-do lists, and we are pursuing them often because we believe strongly in them, or because we must serve a constituency who is influential than you are. Now, as advocates, we can ask the target of our advocacy to add yet another item to their already lengthy to-do list and risk anger or even retaliation from them and their constituencies. If you are trying to cause change because you feel the organization you are attempting to influence is "wrong," then that will come through in your messages whether you intend them to or not. And that will force your audience to, at best, distrust you, and at worst, dig in and become defensive. Instead, find points of common interest or agreement and work from there. You will find that working with someone is more productive than vilifying them.

 

KJP, RTA promised many things with the rehabilitation of the Shaker lines.  I'm not asking for anything extra, just fulfillment of what was initially offered.

• We were told that we would Public Address system along the lines. 
  
• We would have decorative shelters that mimic the Shaker architecture. For quite a while after relaunch of services stations had no shelters, with exception to the canopied stations.  Lee Road was to get a historic shelters, for many years it had not shelters at all.  Instead RTA installed ugly glass shelters, similar to bus shelters.  79 Street, Eaton, Drexmore, Attleboro, Southington (both), South Park, Belvoir were last to have shelters.
  
• Express services would not be eliminated.
  
• We would have boxwood hedges and lilacs.  Instead we got trees that didn't fit in with the neighborhood trees and need constant maintenance.
  

Having said that, if the stations were electrified back then, there would most likely be little cost to add hardware at them today.

 

Having said that, if the stations were electrified back then, there would most likely be little cost to add hardware at them today.

 

 

Yes, but because the Shaker stations have platforms on both sides of the tracks rather than a single platform between the tracks (similar to the HealthLine) means GCRTA would have to have twice as many fare machines. That's twice as much upfront cost and twice as much maintenance. Having one fare machine on 30 of the light-rail trains is better than having at least two fare machines on the platforms at 34 stations. And having fare machines on the trains keeps them out of the elements. Now I can see some stations needing two fare machines like Green Road, Warrensville and Shaker Square (in addition to Tower City). And at Green Road and Warrensville, GCRTA would need to have the fare machines on only one platform.

Having said that, if the stations were electrified back then, there would most likely be little cost to add hardware at them today.

 

 

Yes, but because the Shaker stations have platforms on both sides of the tracks rather than a single platform between the tracks (similar to the HealthLine) means GCRTA would have to have twice as many fare machines. That's twice as much upfront cost and twice as much maintenance. Having one fare machine on 30 of the light-rail trains is better than having at least two fare machines on the platforms at 34 stations. And having fare machines on the trains keeps them out of the elements. Now I can see some stations needing two fare machines like Green Road, Warrensville and Shaker Square (in addition to Tower City). And at Green Road and Warrensville, GCRTA would need to have the fare machines on only one platform.

 

RTA doesn't have to go to that kind of expense... I would say, for most if not all, stations in Shaker, I'd just put 2 machines on the inbound platform where the overwhelming bulk of people are traveling anyway.  If you put them near the cross-street side RTA could put signs in the outbound shelters (where there is an outbound shelter; I can only think of them at Onaway for the HS kids) or at the platforms, informing riders to buy tickets/passes from machines on the inbound platforms, it would work ... After a while it will be come such a regular routine, few will complain ... its not like these stations get a lot of visitor/newbie riders anyway.

The Web site has been updated to reflect the extension of service for Red Line replacement buses through July 6. from Cedar-University to Windermere.

 

Although Mayfield Road will open as planned, the track work above the road is still being prepared for trains.

RTA doesn't have to go to that kind of expense... I would say, for most if not all, stations in Shaker, I'd just put 2 machines on the inbound platform where the overwhelming bulk of people are traveling anyway.  If you put them near the cross-street side RTA could put signs in the outbound shelters (where there is an outbound shelter; I can only think of them at Onaway for the HS kids) or at the platforms, informing riders to buy tickets/passes from machines on the inbound platforms, it would work ... After a while it will be come such a regular routine, few will complain ... its not like these stations get a lot of visitor/newbie riders anyway.

 

 

Yes, but because the Shaker stations have platforms on both sides of the tracks rather than a single platform between the tracks (similar to the HealthLine) means GCRTA would have to have twice as many fare machines. That's twice as much upfront cost and twice as much maintenance. Having one fare machine on 30 of the light-rail trains is better than having at least two fare machines on the platforms at 34 stations. And having fare machines on the trains keeps them out of the elements. Now I can see some stations needing two fare machines like Green Road, Warrensville and Shaker Square (in addition to Tower City). And at Green Road and Warrensville, GCRTA would need to have the fare machines on only one platform.

 

I'm not debating what either of you say, I think you're right, I'm just pointing out historical short falls that have led us to this point.

 

I do think the ROW stations should be converted where there is one entrance where you pay prior to going down the stairs.

The Web site has been updated to reflect the extension of service for Red Line replacement buses through July 6. from Cedar-University to Windermere.

 

 

Is that weather-related, considering all the rain we've had in the past week or so?

The Web site has been updated to reflect the extension of service for Red Line replacement buses through July 6. from Cedar-University to Windermere.

 

 

Is that weather-related, considering all the rain we've had in the past week or so?

 

In a word, yes. Mother Nature threw a pretty wet curveball, and as you can imagine, that kind of weather is not conducive to laying a solid trackbed. We appreciate everyone's patience and understanding. The long-term benefit will be worth the short-term inconvenience.

Interesting... The onboard announcement on the green line added in "you are riding the green line EAST BOUND. Next stop, --- , thank you for riding the RTA"

Interesting... The onboard announcement on the green line added in "you are riding the green line EAST BOUND. Next stop, --- , thank you for riding the RTA"

 

Well that sounds nice... But is it the same computer/mechanical female voice?

 

Interesting... The onboard announcement on the green line added in "you are riding the green line EAST BOUND. Next stop, --- , thank you for riding the RTA"

 

Well that sounds nice... But is it the same computer/mechanical female voice?

 

Yes. It seemed just a little excessive to say thank you for riding RTA at every stop!

^Yeah, I get you.  The thank you should really only be at Tower City; maybe the airport... I don't think RTA's programmers have quite gotten the old idea that, often, less is more.  Ie, that annoyingly chatty guy/voice on the Red Line, which RTA still hasn't improved-- to the point where engineers apparently simply disconnect the thing.

Ugh! Another week, another RTA total rail shutdown... Worse yet, RTA isn't even telling the public exactly what work they will be doing...

 

 

West Side track work set for two weekends in July

In July, RTA has tentatively set aside two weekends to upgrade Red Line tracks on the West Side.

 

On July 12-13 and July 26-27, buses will replace trains for all Red Line service west of Tower City. Look for buses and bus stop signs marked 66R. At Tower City, the 66R buses stop at the Public Square entrance of the Horseshoe Casino (link is external).

 

The 66R buses will serve all Red Line stations, and operate during the same hours as a Red Line train. However, the buses may take longer than the train, so please allow extra time for your commute.

 

http://www.riderta.com//publications/ridersdigest/2014/july

^Yeah, I get you.  The thank you should really only be at Tower City; maybe the airport... I don't think RTA's programmers have quite gotten the old idea that, often, less is more.  Ie, that annoyingly chatty guy/voice on the Red Line, which RTA still hasn't improved-- to the point where engineers apparently simply disconnect the thing.

You are so right about the chatty voice on the Red Line being annoying, and the message also never seems to be updated. The sound of the guy's voice is fine, but the endless prattle is ridiculous.

 

Still, I'll be glad to have the Red Line back next week.

The Web site has been updated to reflect the extension of service for Red Line replacement buses through July 6. from Cedar-University to Windermere.

 

Although Mayfield Road will open as planned, the track work above the road is still being prepared for trains.

 

The RTA website, as of this pm, is now stating East Side Red Line work has been extended another 8 days: through July 13, service resuming July 14!!

 

http://www.riderta.com/

 

 

The Web site has been updated to reflect the extension of service for Red Line replacement buses through July 6. from Cedar-University to Windermere.

 

Although Mayfield Road will open as planned, the track work above the road is still being prepared for trains.

 

The RTA website, as of this pm, is now stating East Side Red Line work has been extended another 8 days: through July 13, service resuming July 14!!

 

http://www.riderta.com/

This is getting pretty ridiculous, that would make basically a month of shutdowns.

...Which is still better than 66 years and more of shutdowns.

...Which is still better than 66 years and more of shutdowns.

 

Where's that?

 

This is getting pretty ridiculous, that would make basically a month of shutdowns.

 

Tell me about it.  The Red Line East will finally open just in time for 2 (total) weekend shutdowns (I noted above) on the Red Line West for ... "track work" (as in no clarification as to what work is actually being done).  Not to mention whatever total East Side shutdowns are coming up re the Inner Belt bridge... RTA will get back to us about these a week or so ahead of time... so we can plan, right? 

Obviously certain heavy work is understandable, like the S curve and Airport tunnel a couple years ago.  The Little Italy station is, too, but it really seems like RTA is dragging this out; 2 extensions?

 

Overall though RTA is losing total credibility with this seeming game of musical shutdowns.  Cleveland has 34 total rail miles, and yet has more total service shutdowns than any system I know, including much larger, older systems, like Chicago, Boston, Philly and New York... I think much of this is politics -- unlike transit agencies in these other places, RTA realizes it can do pretty much whatever it wants, because the Cleveland transit riders are very low on totem pole here vs. say, drivers (let Chicago's CTA or Boston's T try this stuff in those cities; there would be hell to pay... not here) ... Look at last summer's outrage when just the dinky Shoreway West and E. 9th were closed a few days to film Capt America... (and we won't even get into other aspects like the way such projects as the OC are ram-rodded through with scant documentation/justification and little chance for public comment or dissent...)... Sometimes it seems like our rail system is here for only special big events or to showcase for tourist and other out-of-towners, like the airport Rapid is being trumpeted to impress the RNC for its 2016 convention... but for regular, everyday Cleveland transit riders? 

 

It just stinks to high heaven, ... but RTA continues to get away with it and nobody but a few of us here on UO kicks up much sand...

 

 

 

This is getting pretty ridiculous, that would make basically a month of shutdowns.

 

Tell me about it.  The Red Line East will finally open just in time for 2 (total) weekend shutdowns (I noted above) on the Red Line West for ... "track work" (as in no clarification as to what work is actually being done).  Not to mention whatever total East Side shutdowns are coming up re the Inner Belt bridge... RTA will get back to us about these a week or so ahead of time... so we can plan, right? 

Obviously certain heavy work is understandable, like the S curve and Airport tunnel a couple years ago.  The Little Italy station is, too, but it really seems like RTA is dragging this out; 2 extensions?

 

Overall though RTA is losing total credibility with this seeming game of musical shutdowns.  Cleveland has 34 total rail miles, and yet has more total service shutdowns than any system I know, including much larger, older systems, like Chicago, Boston, Philly and New York... I think much of this is politics -- unlike transit agencies in these other places, RTA realizes it can do pretty much whatever it wants, because the Cleveland transit riders are very low on totem pole here vs. say, drivers (let Chicago's CTA or Boston's T try this stuff in those cities; there would be hell to pay... not here) ... Look at last summer's outrage when just the dinky Shoreway West and E. 9th were closed a few days to film Capt America... (and we won't even get into other aspects like the way such projects as the OC are ram-rodded through with scant documentation/justification and little chance for public comment or dissent...)... Sometimes it seems like our rail system is here for only special big events or to showcase for tourist and other out-of-towners, like the airport Rapid is being trumpeted to impress the RNC for its 2016 convention... but for regular, everyday Cleveland transit riders? 

 

It just stinks to high heaven, ... but RTA continues to get away with it and nobody but a few of us here on UO kicks up much sand...

 

The perception in Cuyahoga County is that RTA is for commuting, for those with no other options, and for special events.  You can probably combine the first two, and drop the third, south of 480.  They often seem institutionally content with that.

The perception in Cuyahoga County is that RTA is for commuting, for those with no other options, and for special events.  You can probably combine the first two, and drop the third, south of 480.  They often seem institutionally content with that.

 

For older citizens, that's certainly true. For young adults, it's less so. It's more of a part of the mix of car-free or car-lite transportation choices including walking, biking, car-share, Lyft, Uber and taxis. If you spend anytime downtown and surrounding neighborhoods, you will surely notice more taxis and bikes. Hard to notice Lyft/Uber cars since they are nondescript.

For older citizens, that's certainly true. For young adults, it's less so. It's more of a part of the mix of car-free or car-lite transportation choices including walking, biking, car-share, Lyft, Uber and taxis. If you spend anytime downtown and surrounding neighborhoods, you will surely notice more taxis and bikes. Hard to notice Lyft/Uber cars since they are nondescript.

 

Also, anyone who uses the system regularly, which I acknowledge is not a huge percentage of the county's population, knows that the transit-dependent are not the only users of RTA.

BTW, these younger riders are the future.

The perception in Cuyahoga County is that RTA is for commuting, for those with no other options, and for special events.  You can probably combine the first two, and drop the third, south of 480.  They often seem institutionally content with that.

 

For older citizens, that's certainly true. For young adults, it's less so. It's more of a part of the mix of car-free or car-lite transportation choices including walking, biking, car-share, Lyft, Uber and taxis. If you spend anytime downtown and surrounding neighborhoods, you will surely notice more taxis and bikes. Hard to notice Lyft/Uber cars since they are nondescript.

 

I would say the "south of 480" codicil remains true for younger adults, at least the ones I know (which is more than most people my age due to my job and my relationship). 

 

I would say the "south of 480" codicil remains true for younger adults, at least the ones I know (which is more than most people my age due to my job and my relationship). 

 

I don't know what that means. South of 480?

 

BTW......

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA  55s

Green Line train service has been suspended btwn Shaker Sq & Green Rd until further notice due to flooding. Shuttle buses have been ordered.

Flooding?

 

I would say the "south of 480" codicil remains true for younger adults, at least the ones I know (which is more than most people my age due to my job and my relationship). 

 

I don't know what that means. South of 480?

 

South of I-480. 

 

South of I-480. 

 

Never mind.

I don't know what that means. South of 480?

 

BTW......

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA  55s

Green Line train service has been suspended btwn Shaker Sq & Green Rd until further notice due to flooding. Shuttle buses have been ordered.

 

UPDATE.......

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA  4m

Green line service between Shaker Square & Green Rd has been restored. Thanks for your patience.

 

South of I-480. 

 

Never mind.

 

The point was that the stereotypes about RTA, that it's for mainly for commuting by those without other options, is stronger in that area.  RTA has a very weak presence there, and there's very limited linkup to Summit County.

 

 

What would it take to add this kind of vegetation to the retaining walls along the Red Line, especially from the West Boulevard station to roughly Fulton Road, before the GOP convention? Painting over the graffiti only creates a fresh, new canvas for taggers. Instead, get rid of the canvas by covering it with an attractive, renewable surface that can't be tagged.......

 

 

 

^ Well, we are the "Forest City", right?  :-)

Well this was supposed to be what RTA installed in the Shaker Blvd. cut.  I cannot remember the actual name of this type of grace but it was suppose to be low maintanence and weed free.  As others have said RTA is not good with maintaining landscape.  Look at Shaker Blvd.    Those trees were never suppose to be there.

The type of vegetation I'm suggesting wouldn't need to be maintained.

What about in winter when the leaves die off revealing all the graffiti and trash?

The type of vegetation I'm suggesting wouldn't need to be maintained.

 

Some type of moss or grass that is low maintenance.

Speaking of plants, I notice plantings at the foot of the WFL across from Ken Stewart's restaurant, right where the tracks begin to elevate... I also note a concerted effort at W. 25/Ohio City to keep the ROW clean and plant various gardens... The latter, I think, is the result of the Cleveland Rotary club... In both cases, they look nice.

The type of vegetation I'm suggesting wouldn't need to be maintained.

 

Some type of moss or grass that is low maintenance.

 

Actually.... I was paying attention to the walls along the Red Line during my ride in today from West 117th and those walls are covered extensively with vegetation already. Maybe help nature finish the job....

The type of vegetation I'm suggesting wouldn't need to be maintained.

 

Some type of moss or grass that is low maintenance.

 

Actually.... I was paying attention to the walls along the Red Line during my ride in today from West 117th and those walls are covered extensively with vegetation already. Maybe help nature finish the job....

 

I think what people are saying is its not a pretty ride.  If the walls were cement, and clean it wouldn't seem as though you riding thru an industrial waste land.  Right at brookpark, train yard, it looks pretty bad.  Although I think the Cleveland Rapid tracks are "nicer" than the Shaker Rapid.

The type of vegetation I'm suggesting wouldn't need to be maintained.

 

Some type of moss or grass that is low maintenance.

 

Actually.... I was paying attention to the walls along the Red Line during my ride in today from West 117th and those walls are covered extensively with vegetation already. Maybe help nature finish the job....

 

I think what people are saying is its not a pretty ride.  If the walls were cement, and clean it wouldn't seem as though you riding thru an industrial waste land.  Right at brookpark, train yard, it looks pretty bad.  Although I think the Cleveland Rapid tracks are "nicer" than the Shaker Rapid.

 

"Although I think the [Red Line] tracks are "nicer" than the [Green/Blue Lines]"

 

Really dating yourself there, MTS. Some of us younger people may be confused what you're talking about.

The type of vegetation I'm suggesting wouldn't need to be maintained.

 

Some type of moss or grass that is low maintenance.

 

Actually.... I was paying attention to the walls along the Red Line during my ride in today from West 117th and those walls are covered extensively with vegetation already. Maybe help nature finish the job....

 

I think what people are saying is its not a pretty ride.  If the walls were cement, and clean it wouldn't seem as though you riding thru an industrial waste land.  Right at brookpark, train yard, it looks pretty bad.  Although I think the Cleveland Rapid tracks are "nicer" than the Shaker Rapid.

 

"Although I think the [Red Line] tracks are "nicer" than the [Green/Blue Lines]"

 

Really dating yourself there, MTS. Some of us younger people may be confused what you're talking about.

 

Sorry, but I am Old school.

 

 

I grew up in Shaker a block away from the train.  I live in front of the train.  We've (most Eastsiders I know) always called to the rapid as the Shaker, Van Aken and Cleveland.  For me to say Red, Blue or Green its very difficult.  Just as it's difficult for me to say the "D" word, knowing that it's HIGBEE'S!

Don't forget the Red Line won't be running on the west side this weekend.

 

E-News - July 15, 2014

 

July 26-27: Weekend track upgrades set on West Side Red Line

Work continues daily on new Little Italy-University Circle Red Line Rapid Station

 

On July 26-27, RTA crews will upgrade several areas of Red Line track on the West Side. Replacement buses (66R) will serve all West Side stations. Work continues on the new Little Italy - University Circle Station. Because of complications related to the construction, replacement buses (66R) will continue to serve Red Line stations between Cedar-University and the Louis Stokes Station at Windermere. RTA is working with the contractor to complete the work as quickly and safely as possible. Red Line service will resume as soon as that segment of the rail line is complete.

Campus District to RTA: Don't close rapid station, community is on a roll

By Alison Grant, The Plain Dealer

on July 15, 2014 at 4:06 PM, updated July 15, 2014 at 5:39 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Representatives of anchor institutions in the Campus District told RTA board members Tuesday that now is the time for the transit agency to invest in their neighborhood, not close the rail station at East 34th Street.

 

RTA has made no decision to do so. A consultant is in the midst of studying what it would cost to update the rapid station and two others, along East 79th Street.

 

But RTA also has made no secret of the fact that the East 34th and East 79th Street stations have the lowest ridership of any stations in its system – and that RTA faces hard choices about whether to sink tens of millions of dollars into updating them.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/07/campus_district_says_neighborh.html

____________

 

Here's what GCRTA suggested in a long-range planning document, some of which is still being followed today (ie: relocation of East 120th station to Mayfield).....

 

 

 

And here are a couple of ideas for relocating the East 34th and East 79th stations rather than close them.....

 

 

The graphic of 1/2 mile radius shown in that article is wrong.  1/2 mile radius from the 34th St. stop barely reaches Tri-C.

The graphic of 1/2 mile radius shown in that article is wrong.  1/2 mile radius from the 34th St. stop barely reaches Tri-C.

 

You're right. Here's the half-mile radius from the East 34th station.....

 

Here's the half-mile radius from one possible location for an East 14th-area station.....

Would be interesting to see what is within a half mile WALK! Really is the only thing that matters.

^More fine PD journalism at work.

Would be interesting to see what is within a half mile WALK! Really is the only thing that matters.

 

Indeed.  This might be the worst located rail transit station anywhere.

Would be interesting to see what is within a half mile WALK! Really is the only thing that matters.

 

Indeed.  This might be the worst located rail transit station anywhere.

 

I wonder what passenger service was like when first built?  I wonder if moving to East 30 or 22 would make a difference?  Also, if the community is upset about the station why aren't they using it more?  What has the community done in the past to partner with RTA to discuss uses for the station as well as passenger usage.  I spoke on this before and I'm old enough (hush KJP) to remember when the Cleveland Rapid portion of this station was better than the Shaker Rapid and there were, IMO, quite a few people using this station that were going to Tri-C and CSU.

 

To bad this can't be a subway from TC under Broadway, Woodland or Orange, then back to the current route route.