Not necessarily anti-rail.  Pro-business.  The target audience for Crain's are people who are part of Cleveland's business community, and who will generally support development, and especially downtown-focused development, that is *sustainable.*  The question I would pose for those trying to make the case for continued or possibly even expanded rail operations would be this:  what can be done, particularly right now when capital is dirt-cheap, to place these rail operations on a sustainable footing?  Meaning that as much as possible of both operating and capital costs, preferably all of both, are returned to the community in the form of (a) fares and (b) TOD, job growth, etc. that verifiably results from the presence of nearby rail transit.  If you want the support and cooperation of the business community, that is the case you will have to make.  I think it can be done.  I don't think it has been done to date, but I think it can be. 

 

Transit's return to the community has been thoroughly documented.

^It's funny how, with road-based transportation, pundits like to point to the growth they created.  Like with all the chest-pounding about how many billions of dollars of growth the Health Line, here, allegedly created, when it is well documented that most of the growth along Euclid (esp at places like CSU and Cleveland Clinic, for example) were already planned and even budgeted and would have been built anyway...

 

... in anti-rail hit pieces like Crain's, you'll  get no hint at the significant TOD that has sprouted (and will continue to sprout) along our Rapid rail lines: projects like FEB, East 4th, Intesa and Uptown (MRN's Ari Maron stated in Cleveland Jewish News that MRN specifically chose to develop properties within walking distance of the Red Line, including rehabbing the United Bank Building in Ohio City a block from the Rapid)... But you'll NEVER hear about this in media like the PD or Crain's since we know they have an anti-rail agenda ... at least Crain's actively does... The PD is just indifferent to transit and Allison Grant the transit reporter is very  weak imho.

 

Not necessarily anti-rail.  Pro-business.  The target audience for Crain's are people who are part of Cleveland's business community, and who will generally support development, and especially downtown-focused development, that is *sustainable.*  The question I would pose for those trying to make the case for continued or possibly even expanded rail operations would be this:  what can be done, particularly right now when capital is dirt-cheap, to place these rail operations on a sustainable footing?  Meaning that as much as possible of both operating and capital costs, preferably all of both, are returned to the community in the form of (a) fares and (b) TOD, job growth, etc. that verifiably results from the presence of nearby rail transit.  If you want the support and cooperation of the business community, that is the case you will have to make.  I think it can be done.  I don't think it has been done to date, but I think it can be. 

 

That's a chicken and egg argument.  In order for business to create development related to transit (ie TOD), business leaders must first buy in to the concept of rail transit in the first place, and conservative organizations like Crains, clearly don't.  They do not believe mass transit is a viable urban travel alternative because, in their minds, the 'decent' people who fuel TOD development, won't use it anyway... Is investing billions to build mass transit and tens of millions to maintain it worth it to bring in a few clerks or toilet cleaners when the hot mid-level executive is going cruise into the parking garage with her/his BMW, Benz or Infinity? 

 

I'm a bit late with this anecdote, but I flew into Hopkins at around 6:30 in the evening last Thursday (June 11).  I waited at the Airport station for approximately 25 minutes, and then two Red Line trains arrived almost simultaneously.  There were huge crowds at just about every Rapid station on our way eastbound because of the game.

 

As a regular rider, I'm not surprised that RTA was so unprepared, but as the woman who sat next to me (and claimed to be taking the Rapid for the first time in about a decade) said, it's really inexcusable to promote the Rapid as a good alternative to driving and then run two-car trains with 15-20 minute headways.

Sounds like one train had caught up to another that was slowed for whatever reason. That tends to cause a longer than normal interval between trains. Still, the normal service frequency in the evenings is every 15 minutes vs 10 minutes during the day.

Presented without editorial comment...

 

Greater Cleve RTA

‏@GCRTA

Due to a parts shortage, we're experiencing an equipment shortage on all rail. Red Line running some 1 car trains until trains can be fixed.

Sounds like one train had caught up to another that was slowed for whatever reason. That tends to cause a longer than normal interval between trains. Still, the normal service frequency in the evenings is every 15 minutes vs 10 minutes during the day.

 

As a frequent rider, I'm aware of what the normal frequency is and that RTA regularly experiences bunching problems.  What the lady next to me was saying is that if RTA is being promoted as a way for large numbers of people to come downtown for a special event, frequencies should be increased in order to handle the crowds.  That doesn't seem unreasonable.

As a frequent rider, I'm aware of what the normal frequency is and that RTA regularly experiences bunching problems.  What the lady next to me was saying is that if RTA is being promoted as a way for large numbers of people to come downtown for a special event, frequencies should be increased in order to handle the crowds.  That doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

They did last week with the two Finals games. GCRTA was running three-car trains every 5-10 minutes. However I did see that, every so often, one train was only 2-3 minutes behind another, leaving a gap of 15 minutes or possibly more until the next.

 

BTW, rail access to tonight's game is going to be VERY difficult as some Red Line trains will likely run with only one car. I would consider bus transit routes.

 

Also a 15 mph slow order is in place on the Red Line between the stations at West Boulevard and Ohio City due to recent and ongoing track work. This will cause delays of up to 10 minutes according to recent GCRTA tweets.

^1 car!?  Why?  RTA hasn't run exclusively  1-car (I'm reluctant to call them) trains since POP was implemented in 2010, at least as far as I know (I haven't seen any 1 car trains).  Why now?  And why is rail access so particularly tough tonight?

^1 car!?  Why?  RTA hasn't run exclusively  1-car (I'm reluctant to call them) trains since POP was implemented in 2010, at least as far as I know (I haven't seen any 1 car trains).  Why now?  And why is rail access so particularly tough tonight?

 

Combined with the confusion most new riders face, I think it's fair to recommend that inexperienced riders *not* use RTA tonight, and that they molested the proverbial pooch again.

 

If traffic is evil, buses won't move any better than cars.

 

^1 car!?  Why?  RTA hasn't run exclusively  1-car (I'm reluctant to call them) trains since POP was implemented in 2010, at least as far as I know (I haven't seen any 1 car trains).  Why now?  And why is rail access so particularly tough tonight?

 

See the GCRTA information several posts farther up.

 

Temporary fixes are few and are merely short-term patches. Real, real-term solutions are expensive. If GCRTA wants to finance the purchase of trains now in production, Siemens S200 trains can serve high/low-platform stations on all of GCRTA's rail lines. Cleveland will need about 40-45 rail cars. Calgary has ordered 60 of these railcars at a cost of about $3.2 million each or nearly $200 million. San Francisco first ordered 175 S200 trains for $648 million and then added another 40 trains for another $210 million. First picture below is a rendering of the new rail cars in Calgary and below in San Francisco....

 

 

@GCRTA 2m

2 car trains for the @cavs game tonight. @fox8news 19actionnews[/member] @WEWS @wkyc

^Good.  Demand will probably be down tonight, even though 2-car trains on all 3 of RTA's beyond-downtown rail lines will be needed.  I understand that fans are somewhat down in the dumps after Game 5 and are bailing on game tics, which both available and available below face, easily.  I can't imagine that the street crowd outside the Q will be nearly as big as Thursday, so it looks like RTA may catch a break.

RNC Money

 

This may be a silly question, but could any of the RNC money the city will be receiving to offset the costs associated with hosting the RNC be used to pay for trains to move visitors around the city? I know the bulk of the money will be spent on security initiatives but I read that police vehicles would be purchased which led me to question if any of the funds could be funneled to RTA.

RNC Money

 

This may be a silly question, but could any of the RNC money the city will be receiving to offset the costs associated with hosting the RNC be used to pay for trains to move visitors around the city? I know the bulk of the money will be spent on security initiatives but I read that police vehicles would be purchased which led me to question if any of the funds could be funneled to RTA.

 

RTA will be chartering over 200 buses to help transport people during the convention, and the cost of that will be covered by the local host committee. They also will be buying new downtown trolleys that will eventually replace the older ones, but that isn't coming from the convention money. As for operating costs for extra service hours using their normal bus/rail fleet, I haven't seen any details yet about RTA getting reimbursed.

The only reason the RNC would care about rail is for one of the very same reasons the Van Swerigen brothers did:  to make sure the help can get to work at the arena, hotels and restaurants. 

Pretty sure the Van's stated intention and the routes established, strongly suggest they were interested in getting businessmen from the Heights to and from the CBD.

Pretty sure the Van's stated intention and the routes established, strongly suggest they were interested in getting businessmen from the Heights to and from the CBD.

 

...and to and from the CBD from their new developments in Shaker Heights.

Pretty sure the Van's stated intention and the routes established, strongly suggest they were interested in getting businessmen from the Heights to and from the CBD.

 

...and to and from the CBD from their new developments in Shaker Heights.

 

And the stops at 55th, 34th etc, for the help to reverse commute out to the mansions.   

Good afternoon. I just wanted to drop in for a quick reminder. I have seen several times on this Forum when people "unofficially" want to sound as if they are representing RTA. They are not.

 

The only people on this Forum who can speak officially for RTA are myself and JetDog. Many other people here know a lot about RTA, and we respect their opinions, but opinions are different from facts. They may say they have "inside information," but I have seen inside information posted here that was far from true.

 

Things at RTA change quickly. That which is true on Monday is not always true on Tuesday, and that which is accurate at 3 p.m., may change by 4 p.m. When answering a question from this list, or any customer, we often have to call a primary source, to verify our information.

 

If I am not on the Forum and you have a question that needs immediate attention, please send an e-mail to [email protected].

 

Thanks for caring so much about public transit in Cleveland. And for all you Dads, Happy Father's Day.

Yours is most certainly the official RTA position. But let's be completely clear on what our respective jobs and functions are in the working world. RTA officials represent RTA's official position and to protect RTA the organization. The Amalgamated Transit Union represents its rank and file employees. And advocacy organizations like All Aboard Ohio represent the citizens wishing to benefit from more and better public transit. When any of these interest groups see opportunities and threats to its constituencies, they will speak up. None of these organizations are going away any time soon (AAO and its parent OARP has been around longer than GCRTA), and their constituencies may never go away. Transit in Cleveland doesn't belong to RTA. It belongs to the community. RTA is current caretaker and provider of transit. Sometimes we are adversaries. Sometimes we are partners. But we will always play in the same sandbox together.

Major changes coming to popular Brookpark Station

 

http://www.riderta.com/news/major-changes-coming-popular-brookpark-rapid-station

 

 

an even better change would be to get on Red Line train in the morning with more then one car - another Monday, another one car Red Line train on the way to work.  SOOO crowded. 

One in 10 miles of RTA rail track under 'go-slow' orders

 

By Alison Grant, The Plain Dealer

on June 22, 2015 at 11:00 AM, updated June 22, 2015 at 11:10 AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohi0 -- When Darius Stubbs started riding the Red Line rapid after moving to Cleveland in 2006, it usually rumbled along without a hitch from West 117th Street to downtown.

 

Lately, not so much.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/06/one_1_ione_1_in_10_miles_of_rta_rail_track_under_go-slow_ordersn_10_miles_of_rta_rapid.html

 

 

 

 

It's what happens when you don't invest in maintenance and technology upgrades... 

It's what happens when you don't invest in maintenance and technology upgrades... 

 

Or don't have the resources to make those investments. Ohio's lack of funding for transit certainly hurts us. Also, GCRTA was until recently one of the few older rail systems that could compete for federal "rail modernization" grants. But there's a lot of rail systems that have been built since the 1980s in most major U.S. cities and they're all getting old. So now Cleveland has to compete with more transit agencies in more cities for the same or fewer federal dollars. The slow orders are a consequence of a nation and a state that doesn't care about infrastructure in general and transit in particular.

Just tweeted out by the Transit App:

 

@transitapp "Cleveland: you may have lost the finals, but we've got a pretty good consolation prize. Real-time data for RTA!!! https://t.co/jEin7sILXX"

 

EDIT: After looking through the app real quick, it looks like a only a portion of the bus lines are using real time data. The Rapid is also not yet included. I'm curious about the timing though as I know RTA was in the process of doing a "stop survey" because their real time data was not very accurate, and they had said they didn't want to make it open source until that was complete. Perhaps they're doing it piece by piece? Regardless, it's very welcome news.

I just downloaded it.  The app is great, by far the best transit app I've seen yet.  But yeah, if it's lacking info for the trains - it's sorely needed.

Just tweeted out by the Transit App:

 

@transitapp "Cleveland: you may have lost the finals, but we've got a pretty good consolation prize. Real-time data for RTA!!! https://t.co/jEin7sILXX"

 

EDIT: After looking through the app real quick, it looks like a only a portion of the bus lines are using real time data. The Rapid is also not yet included. I'm curious about the timing though as I know RTA was in the process of doing a "stop survey" because their real time data was not very accurate, and they had said they didn't want to make it open source until that was complete. Perhaps they're doing it piece by piece? Regardless, it's very welcome news.

 

I could be wrong, but the way i understand it...the "real time" location data isn't reliable.  The "ping" from the bus or train, is not sent/received/processed in real time.  If you look at the next connect app, almost all of the next buses trains are just what the schedule says, not where the bus/train really is.

 

 

 

 

^ Not exactly. There are instances in which NextConnect resorts to the scheduled time when "real time" data isn't available, but the majority of the time it's based upon the location of the bus/train. Quite often the information on NextConnect is accurate, but there are certain instance in which it is not--a problem that RTA is currently in the process of rectifying, from what I've been told.

 

 

I just downloaded it.  The app is great, by far the best transit app I've seen yet.  But yeah, if it's lacking info for the trains - it's sorely needed.

 

I agree, but at least the Rapid tends to run pretty close to scheduled times, relative to buses.

By the way, the slow order between West Boulevard and Ohio City on the Red Line-west is the result of track improvements underway on that section. So it's not fair to say that all slow orders are the result of a backlog of unmet track maintenance. This particular slow order is the coded track-circuit equivalent of a string of roadside orange barrels.

EDIT: After looking through the app real quick, it looks like a only a portion of the bus lines are using real time data. The Rapid is also not yet included. I'm curious about the timing though as I know RTA was in the process of doing a "stop survey" because their real time data was not very accurate, and they had said they didn't want to make it open source until that was complete. Perhaps they're doing it piece by piece? Regardless, it's very welcome news.

Hello! We're getting a bunch of referrals on the article from here. Right now, we're just scraping what's available on Next Connect. No real-time for trains or the Health Line yet, but once that's available, we'll integrate it. Unfortunately if what Next Connect reports is imprecise, that'll be reflected in the app. However, if we're getting no real-time data reports, we revert to schedules.

 

I just downloaded it.  The app is great, by far the best transit app I've seen yet.  But yeah, if it's lacking info for the trains - it's sorely needed.

To our knowledge that info isn't available. If there's a real-time info for trains out there in the wild, we'll happily integrate it.

 

I could be wrong, but the way i understand it...the "real time" location data isn't reliable.  The "ping" from the bus or train, is not sent/received/processed in real time.  If you look at the next connect app, almost all of the next buses trains are just what the schedule says, not where the bus/train really is.

Is the unreliability widespread? We're up in Montreal, Canada so if we had boots on the ground relaying the real-time UX in Cleveland, that'd be very, very helpful. Best way to reach us is transitapp[/member] on Twitter. We'll monitor this thread for the next couple of days though.

 

^ Not exactly. There are instances in which NextConnect resorts to the scheduled time when "real time" data isn't available, but the majority of the time it's based upon the location of the bus/train. Quite often the information on NextConnect is accurate, but there are certain instance in which it is not--a problem that RTA is currently in the process of rectifying, from what I've been told.

If there's real-time data available, we put "squiggles" in the top-right corner, next to departure times. If it's not there, the times we show are scheduled times. Pic related.

I use the Transit App as well. They've been rolling out the "real time" data for a week or so. Only noticed it on routes I actually use on Friday. I've found it to be reasonably accurate outside of rush hour. The sort of technology infrastructure that could anticipate that the bus is going to have to wait for 3-4 light cycles at the intersection before your stop just isn't affordable to date.

I do logistics software for a living...and I sat through the web site re-design.

 

The wording was very imprecise, and nobody seemed to have the definitive answer...But from what i understand, the technology is just not there on the buses/trains.  They do not constantly broadcast their location or even reasonably periodically.   

 

We do this with trucks...they are usually setup to ping once an hour and have expensive satellite technology.  One of our divisions sets this up on Marine diesels for engine performance data...and subsequently uses the location data for scheduling.  Another does satellite GPS for heavy earth moving equipment, anther for farm machinery.

 

I would give the drivers an allowance($100)...build an app they download to their own smartphone...have them clock into it with their route #....pay and real time location data.

 

I could not figure out if RTA is setup to signal something like once an hour...which renders the data unusable for this purpose.  Or if the data is only transmitted when the train/bus passes some sort of transponder/fixed location.

 

 

 

 

^ I don't know the frequency, but they do use a combination of GPS and odometer data. But speaking strictly anecdotally, most of the time I do find the NextConnect real time info to be fairly accurate, even when the times veer from the schedule significantly.

 

EDIT: Also, thanks transitapp[/member] for coming to UrbanOhio!

^ I don't know the frequency, but they do use a combination of GPS and odometer data. But speaking strictly anecdotally, most of the time I do find the NextConnect real time info to be fairly accurate, even when the times veer from the schedule significantly.

 

I have found the opposite to be true.  So much so, I don't even bother to look.  I just look at the schedule.  The route I usually take..the 26.. is frequent enough that it isn't a complete pain.  BUT if i was on one of those routes that come but once an hour like the 45, i would be insane.

 

 

^ I don't know the frequency, but they do use a combination of GPS and odometer data. But speaking strictly anecdotally, most of the time I do find the NextConnect real time info to be fairly accurate, even when the times veer from the schedule significantly.

 

EDIT: Also, thanks transitapp[/member] for coming to UrbanOhio!

 

I like NextConnect.  I've used it for the Rapids and the HL, and it's been within the minute each time.

Just tweeted out by the Transit App:

 

transitapp[/member] "Cleveland: you may have lost the finals, but we've got a pretty good consolation prize. Real-time data for RTA!!! https://t.co/jEin7sILXX"

 

EDIT: After looking through the app real quick, it looks like a only a portion of the bus lines are using real time data. The Rapid is also not yet included. I'm curious about the timing though as I know RTA was in the process of doing a "stop survey" because their real time data was not very accurate, and they had said they didn't want to make it open source until that was complete. Perhaps they're doing it piece by piece? Regardless, it's very welcome news.

 

Only a portion of the buses are using real-time transit data as noted. Open Cleveland has been in contact, spoken with GCRTA employees, and advocated for the release of open, real-time transit data. As TPH2 stated, their reluctance to release the data is in part because they need to resurvey the locations of the stops for accuracy (amongst other reasons). I've been told by them that they're aiming for a date of October for the release of it but I wouldn't be surprised if it's pushed back because the staff doing the surveying have a lot of other responsibilities and it's not a top one. In other words, they're likely understaffed.

 

(Note, I'm speaking on behalf of myself, and not on behalf of Open Cleveland although I am the co-captain (co-leader) of Open Cleveland).

 

(TPH2, we might know each other in real life :)

 

This was posted on a Facebook page, where a lady was irate because a machine ate her pass.  Is it true?

As a side note: Although you may not agree with transit policies, always be respectful to the Transit Police. I have heard people refer to them as security guards, or flashlight cops, and other demeaning things, but the reality is they are covered under the Homeland Security Act, and disobeying or even arguing with them is a FELONY, unlike with other police. They are well protected by the law and have inter-jurisdictional authority. They have more authority than the local police although many believe otherwise. Plus, it's only the right thing to do because they didn't make the policies they are required to enforce anyway. So, my advice is if you get in a pinch, be nice to the officer, and take your grievance up with the transit authority later. After all, the transit authority cannot arrest you, but the Transit Police can!

^There's like a whole bunch of semi related claims in that paragraph. Are you asking about anything in particular? Most of it just looks like innocuous or dubious stuff just spun to sound important (or scary, if you're part of a certain paranoid element). For instance, of course RTA police has "inter-jurisdictional" authority, because its transit routes and property are located across multiple municipalities. But their authority is limited within each jurisdiction, so who cares? And "covered by the Homeland Security Act" is so general it means almost nothing on its own.

@GCRTA Sat 6/27-Sun 6/28, Red Line btwn @GoingPlacesCLE (Hopkins Airport) &Tower City replaced w/ 66R buses due to track work.

^There's like a whole bunch of semi related claims in that paragraph. Are you asking about anything in particular? Most of it just looks like innocuous or dubious stuff just spun to sound important (or scary, if you're part of a certain paranoid element). For instance, of course RTA police has "inter-jurisdictional" authority, because its transit routes and property are located across multiple municipalities. But their authority is limited within each jurisdiction, so who cares? And "covered by the Homeland Security Act" is so general it means almost nothing on its own.

 

The idea that they have special federal status and/or more authority than local police is what I would question.  Even the arrest powers, I recall that UCPD can only detain until local police arrive and figured they would be similar.  The "arguing is a felony" I would really question if not for TSA's status....

Transit Police receive the same training, and have the same authority, as municipal police. Their jurisdiction includes RTA vehicles and property, and some common areas, such as Public Square and the Euclid Avenue. Because transit can be a terrorist target, they do receive federal grants from time to time for special items, such as the bomb-sniffing canine unit.

 

 

From Facebook:

 

Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority

2 hrs ·

Due to a broken down train, we are unable to run at full capacity for 2-car trains this morning. There is one, 1-car train on the Red Line. It is currently headed westbound from East 55th Street Station. We apologize for the inconvenience.

 

Seems to be a daily occurrence this week. The Facebook comments are brutal.

For the orchestra downtown last night RTA had a ticket vendor selling all days passes at Triskett. it was nice to see an actual person there to quickly sell tickets and answer questions. For the Cavs playoff games I routinely saw ten people in line at the machines. Little improvements such as this make riding the rapid a much better experience.

^Great to hear.  Huge opportunity for RTA to be promoting their service while also improving ease of riding. 

For the orchestra downtown last night RTA had a ticket vendor selling all days passes at Triskett. it was nice to see an actual person there to quickly sell tickets and answer questions. For the Cavs playoff games I routinely saw ten people in line at the machines. Little improvements such as this make riding the rapid a much better experience.

 

That's a nice move because a lot of riders feel RTA has an F-the public mantra these days.

On Monday, July 20, RTA will begin demolishing the tunnel at the popular Brookpark Rapid Station, as part of a major renovation project there.  On that day...

 

ADA parking will be removed from the east parking lot. All ADA customers must park in ADA spaces in the west parking lot.

 

Customers will walk from the east side to the west side via a new sidewalk that is being uilt along Brookpark Road. RTA is also installing stairs, underpass lights, and a wooden barrier to protect customers from vehicles and highway splashing.

 

"Our Number One goal is always safety," says RTA CEO and General Manager Joe Calabrese. "This is the best way that we can keep our customers safe, and still keep the Rapid Station open. We apologize for the inconvenience."

 

Two nearby parking lots -- Puritas and Triskett -- have available parking.

 

 

Some free downtown trolley service could end this year without business, city backing

 

By Alison Grant, The Plain Dealer

Email the author | Follow on Twitter

on July 07, 2015 at 5:45 PM, updated July 07, 2015 at 7:08 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Three years of funding for the C-Line, NineTwelve Line and L-Line trolleys runs out in coming months, and the main source of public sector dollars the trolleys rely on can't be renewed, RTA officials said Tuesday.

 

The C-Line and NineTwelve Line have proven quite popular, and RTA hopes to line up support from downtown businesses, including residential developers and the Horseshoe Casino Cleveland, as well as the city of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County, to keep them going.

 

Ridership on the L-Line that runs Saturdays and Sundays during daytime hours between the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum, Great Lakes Science Center and Voinovich Park, and the casino and other downtown venues has been weak. RTA is recommending that the service be cut in early September.

 

Ending the L-Line and trimming the route of the Nine-Twelve will reduce the $1.2 million current annual operating cost of the trolleys by $400,000, to $800,000. Even so, it's money RTA doesn't have, General Manager Joe Calabrese said.

 

"It's simply something we can't absorb into our budget," he said.

 

Calabrese said the community at large understands the value that the free trolley service brings Cleveland. In the next 90 days, RTA will begin in earnest soliciting support from businesses to try to keep the C-Line and NineTwelve operating, he said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/07/some_free_downtown_trolley_ser.html#incart_river

^I can never predict what UOers want to discuss, but I am surprised that the possible elimination of several Downtown Trolleys hasn't merited a comment -- I guess everyone's obsessed with the Suburban Sprawl discussion.