MetroHealth System buys naming rights to RTA's West 25th Street route

 

By Karen Farkas, cleveland.com

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on March 31, 2017 at 7:57 AM, updated March 31, 2017 at 7:58 AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The MetroHealth System will pay $4.1 million for 25 years of naming rights to a Greater Cleveland RTA bus route that travels on West 25th Street.  The MetroHealth Line, with new 40-foot branded buses, will begin this fall. The hospital system will also have its name on improved bus stops and stations. It will pay $125,000 the first year.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/03/rta_and_metrohealth_create_new.html#incart_m-rpt-1

I print people bus maps all day every day to get to Metro. It's going to be so much easier to explain to folks, "just take the metro health bus"

Can someone please tell me what this means:

 

Alert:

Red Line

Service between the Louis Stokes Station at Windermere and Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, via Downtown Cleveland

Can someone please tell me what this means:

 

Alert:

Red Line

Service between the Louis Stokes Station at Windermere and Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, via Downtown Cleveland

 

surf, where did you see this?

Great news! Late-night & weekend @GCRTA trolley service extended to Flats East Bank. https://t.co/d0kOJMBIJu

Great news! Late-night & weekend @GCRTA trolley service extended to Flats East Bank. https://t.co/d0kOJMBIJu

Why not just re-extend service on the Waterfront rail line?  Both the rail line and the C-Line trolley go from FEB to Public Square but the Rapid, which is not susceptible to traffic as the Trolleys will be, get there much faster and provide through service to the southeast of Cleveland and the suburbs. This move doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Because the trolleys are free?

Because the trolleys are free?

But what good do free trolleys do if you are coming into downtown from Cleveland neighborhoods or the suburbs? In such case if you drive, you're going to pay to park in the downtown core anyway so it makes little sense to park somewhere else, pay to park then ride a slow trolley to FEB when you can just pay and park in FEB directly.

 

Downtown hotel visitors? Sure free trolleys are cool; although if one is paying a big bill to stay in a downtown hotel, I doubt a free trolley will be the cherry on the cake for his or her trip to Cleveland.  And besides hotel visitors and downtown residents are a tiny subset of FEBs weekend traffic anyway.

It's funny how the bus that's actually free and runs very frequently is the one that caters to suburbanites/exurbanites who have the money to pay whatever fare and simply come downtown for Cavs games and to get drunk. RTA is good at putting on a good show for the elite and screwing over real Clevelanders who actually rely on buses.

^ I don't think the trolleys cater to suburbanites at all.  I use them a lot and it seems to be a mix of people on them.  Many people use them to get around downtown and save themselves some walking.

No, there are TONS of places to park for free downtown and essentially nowhere in the Flats to do this. I go downtown all the time and I never pay to park. I would totally park downtown and take this trolley.

No, there are TONS of places to park for free downtown and essentially nowhere in the Flats to do this. I go downtown all the time and I never pay to park. I would totally park downtown and take this trolley.

Where in the downtown core can you park free on weekends, esp if there's an Indians, Cavs game (or both in the case of 3 Saturdays ago)? We know rockandroller you dislike the Rapid, but what about the many others who are open to it? Shouldn't the goal in a major city be to reduce driving and encourage transit? And why should RTA simply ignore an existing rail line that places commutes within steps of FEB venues only to duplicate it with buses, free or otherwise, when the buses are inferior in performance (on the crowded, hilly and narrow Flats streets) to the existing Rapid and when the goal in shutting down the Waterfront Line after 7p was supposedly to SAVE MONEY and these buses, in terms of fuel and overtime, is likely to cost just as much, if not more, than the Rapid? ...

 

 

Well, all I can tell you is I always find a spot. If you go far enough down Prospect there are usually spots, and I have really good luck on Frankfort and a couple other out of the way places. I'm not just talking about my own experience though. If I was meeting a group of women downtown I could see us meeting somewhere up "top" and taking the trolley down there.

 

I have nothing against the rapid going down there vs. the trolley. If the waterfront line was free, absolutely I'd take that.

They're not free for GCRTA to operate unless Flats East Bank business(es) are subsidizing them, as downtown businesses are already subsidizing the existing trolley routes.

 

If so, did GCRTA give them the same option of subsidizing extended hours of service on the Waterfront Line?

They're not free for GCRTA to operate unless Flats East Bank business(es) are subsidizing them, as downtown businesses are already subsidizing the existing trolley routes.

 

If so, did GCRTA give them the same option of subsidizing extended hours of service on the Waterfront Line?

Probably not... I've also wondered: why doesn't Fairmount and the other FEB businesses subsidize the WFL at least expanded weekend service?  On ballance it's probably a drop in the bucket and would likely increase FEB patronage. Adam Fishman was very outspoken in supporting expanded WFL service when Joe C proposed his cutbacks last year.

As a worker downtown, I use the the free trolleys all the time.  When my parents were in town, we took a trolley from Playhouse Square to the flats for dinner. We had to walk all the way down the hill and my (now getting older) parents really struggled. This is a fantastic service that the Waterfront Line cannot replicate. I'm super excited for an expanded method of transit for getting around downtown.

As a worker downtown, I use the the free trolleys all the time.  When my parents were in town, we took a trolley from Playhouse Square to the flats for dinner. We had to walk all the way down the hill and my (now getting older) parents really struggled. This is a fantastic service that the Waterfront Line cannot replicate. I'm super excited for an expanded method of transit for getting around downtown.

Actually, you took the Trolley from Playhouse Square to the Warehouse District (not the Flats) where your parents struggled down the hill to get to FEB... Just sayin'.

They're not free for GCRTA to operate unless Flats East Bank business(es) are subsidizing them, as downtown businesses are already subsidizing the existing trolley routes.

 

If so, did GCRTA give them the same option of subsidizing extended hours of service on the Waterfront Line?

Probably not... I've also wondered: why doesn't Fairmount and the other FEB businesses subsidize the WFL at least expanded weekend service?  On ballance it's probably a drop in the bucket and would likely increase FEB patronage. Adam Fishman was very outspoken in supporting expanded WFL service when Joe C proposed his cutbacks last year.

RTA ?... reach out to get private/corporate financing of the Rapid!?  Did I just imply Joe Calabrese would ever do anything to support rail transit in this town? I must have either been drinking or delusional, and it wasn't the former.

The trolley is already free and can easily be rerouted to accommodate a FEB stop.  It would probably be much more complicated to establish free/subsidized WFL service either as an extension of Blue/Green service (which would be much less frequent than the "trolleys" and bring up the difficulty of figuring out who gets free rides to the FEB vs the poor suckers who have to pay to get home from work) or as a standalone weekend service attempting to replicate the 10 minute frequency which makes the trolleys so convenient.  In addition, the trolley is more convenient for FEB trips because it already loops around various important downtown destinations.  The Rapid serves a single, underground station at Tower City, making it much less convenient for people who are already downtown.  Even if I took the rapid in to downtown on an all-day pass (making a WFL trip free), if I were spending time in the Playhouse District and wanted to go to the Flats, I would be better off taking the trolley to the WHD and walking down the hill than walking  back to TC and waiting for a train.

Anyone know what's up with the electricity (or lack thereof) at the Shaker Square station? Seems there's a generator running "something" there but the lights are out as is the next-train LED signs. It's been that way since Monday. Michael's has electricity so I wondered what's up. Is it related to the maintenance/reconstruction being done on the east-side rail lines last weekend and this?

(deleted, user error)

The trolley is already free and can easily be rerouted to accommodate a FEB stop.  It would probably be much more complicated to establish free/subsidized WFL service either as an extension of Blue/Green service (which would be much less frequent than the "trolleys" and bring up the difficulty of figuring out who gets free rides to the FEB vs the poor suckers who have to pay to get home from work) or as a standalone weekend service attempting to replicate the 10 minute frequency which makes the trolleys so convenient.  In addition, the trolley is more convenient for FEB trips because it already loops around various important downtown destinations.  The Rapid serves a single, underground station at Tower City, making it much less convenient for people who are already downtown.  Even if I took the rapid in to downtown on an all-day pass (making a WFL trip free), if I were spending time in the Playhouse District and wanted to go to the Flats, I would be better off taking the trolley to the WHD and walking down the hill than walking  back to TC and waiting for a train.

 

That's arguing against yourself.  Most non-downtown residents going to the Flats come downtown and go straight to the Flats ... I don't know a ton of people who go to Playhouse Square in order to go to the Flats.  Most people who hang out downtown on weekends tend to go to the Flats, E. 4th/Prospect and now E. 9th, the WHD and, often, Ohio City.  Most of those areas are easily served by the Rapid.  If you are at the Warehouse District, sure its easy to walk down the hill... for most of us, anyway.  For many it, in turn, is a hassle to walk back up that Hill.  But the key is getting downtown and unless you have magical powers and snap your fingers to suddenly appear downtown (preferably Playhouse Sq I guess), or you drive downtown like rockandroller, mass transit, especially the Rapid, would seem a viable alternative. 

 

And again I want to see how convenient the trolley is when its stuck in thick auto traffic on W. 10th or Main Ave or Old River Rd during one of those peak Flats summer weekend evenings, like Flats Friday's.  The Rapid on private ROW does not get stuck in such traffic.

 

In the 1980s when the Flats was really coming into its own as a restaurant/entertainment district, people were crying for a mass transit solution to all the thick traffic jamming the narrow Flats roads.  RTA started the Flats Flyer, small van-like buses that ran from Flats to Public Square where people could ... drum roll please: connect to the Rapid.  Around this time the idea of a 'Rapid to the Flats' became popular and developer Jeff Jacobs even proposed RTA running a diesel trolley between the Flats and Terminal Tower to, again, connect with the Rapid...

 

Then, of course, the Rapid was actually extended to, and through, the east bank of the Flats and, on crowded weekends in the late 1990s, Flats revelers lined up to ride the WFL into the Flats, many transferring from the West Side Red Line to the WFL... Then, in the early 2000s, the Flats died but is now being reborn in a big way and, somehow, the WFL has become, esp in the minds of many UOers, useless; a foolish expense that nobody uses.  Use Trolleys because they are free!! ... and go to Playhouse Square, where everybody wants to go, apparently.  Kind of like those folks who think discontinuing the east Red Line and running BRTs over the now a-bulding Opportunity Corridor freeway makes perfect sense. 

 

Joe Calabrese loves you... Only in Cleveland.

I mean, it's not Rapid hate or rail hate or something. If given a choice between a free trolley or something people have to pay for, even if they have to sit in traffic for a bit, yeah, people are going to be more likely to take the free option. With all the hotels downtown now, a free trolley running to and from the flats IMO is a great idea. The area has struggled mightily in the winter and if they are going to be able to make it, especially in the off season, having a free trolley that goes around downtown and down into the flats would definitely be something I'd recommend to people coming in from out of town and staying in our hotels. Go get dinner on E 4th? Sure. Then hop the trolley and go to FWD or Punch Bowl or Margaritaville. it has nothing to do with hating rail lines. If the WFL was free, I'd recommend that as well, but if someone is staying at the Westin or Comfort Inn, then they have to walk half the way there just to get to TC and then go downstairs to get WFL. Picking up a trolley outside the front door of your hotel is a LOT more convenient. And in bad weather, which we have a lot of here, it's a real advantage vs. having to get to TC to board WFL.

I just want to point out since the C line only runs in one direction to get to the flats from Public Square on the trolley you'll have to ride it down Euclid turn on E 9th turn on Prospect turn onto E 17 then again on to Euclid right onto E 12 then all the way down lakeside before getting to the flats

I mean, it's not Rapid hate or rail hate or something. If given a choice between a free trolley or something people have to pay for, even if they have to sit in traffic for a bit, yeah, people are going to be more likely to take the free option. With all the hotels downtown now, a free trolley running to and from the flats IMO is a great idea. The area has struggled mightily in the winter and if they are going to be able to make it, especially in the off season, having a free trolley that goes around downtown and down into the flats would definitely be something I'd recommend to people coming in from out of town and staying in our hotels. Go get dinner on E 4th? Sure. Then hop the trolley and go to FWD or Punch Bowl or Margaritaville. it has nothing to do with hating rail lines. If the WFL was free, I'd recommend that as well, but if someone is staying at the Westin or Comfort Inn, then they have to walk half the way there just to get to TC and then go downstairs to get WFL. Picking up a trolley outside the front door of your hotel is a LOT more convenient. And in bad weather, which we have a lot of here, it's a real advantage vs. having to get to TC to board WFL.

 

I hear you R&Rer; this just re-ignites my anger at the late Albert S. Porter who nixed our subway which would have circulated downtown... Don't get me wrong; I LOVE the Trolleys.  They are fun to ride, visually interesting, have well-posted routes and the fact that they are free means not having to fumble for fares even if just a few coins.  The public really likes them and keeps many out of cars, and that's a great thing... And yes the Trolley is preferable ... once you're downtown.  I just look at the Waterfront Line as a wasted asset that the community, at one time, really wanted.  And the fact it provides direct service from the southeast side, and an easy TC connection for Red Line passengers, seems like the WFL should be a viable option to more people... But as yet it is not ...

 

... and it's easy to see why... As I rode the west Red Line to the airport on a weekday a few weeks ago, I looked on upon the Flats as the train sped along the Cuyahoga viaduct; and saw a sea of parked cars, everywhere -- as far as the eye could see.  While it's great to see all the new development down there, it's obvious the Flats is a, if not THE, major source of cheap and/or free parking for downtown workers.  I'm hoping that with more development -- like say Phase III of FEB--this surface parking will disappear and some may be forced to take rail ... or something not involving their private vehicle.

 

Toronto has a Harborfront Line which is not unlike our WFL.  It's a electric trolley line that rides in streets along Toronto's waterfront then dives into a short tunnel where it terminates at the Union Station subway stop allowing transfers to subway trains.  Though, unlike our WFL it does not provide through service like ours does over the Blue and Green lines (and the terrain is flat unlike our steep hillside in/out of the Flats), it is very well patronized.  Yes Toronto has much more waterfront residential development that does Cleveland, and maybe when and if we can get even half their waterfront density (even a quarter) maybe, ... maybe people will stop thumbing their noses at WFL trains.

At some point in the not too distant future, ridership on the Trolleys may surpass ridership on Cleveland's light rail lines.  Right now it's about 1.5M per year on the Trolleys (growing in recent years) vs. 2.5M on the Green and Blue Lines (shrinking in recent years).

At some point in the not too distant future, ridership on the Trolleys may surpass ridership on Cleveland's light rail lines.  Right now it's about 1.5M per year on the Trolleys (growing in recent years) vs. 2.5M on the Green and Blue Lines (shrinking in recent years).

 

Those figures seem unbelievable. How are they able to estimate ridership on trolleys when they're free and there's nothing counting the passengers boarding?

I want to say that when I read this story my initial reaction was like, "But what about the WFL?" But it took all of 60 seconds to realize the C-line's advantages for this application, both real and perceived.  The big obstacle (I would think) is, as I stated, the fact that the C-line is already running, while the WFL is not.  If you want to start free WFL line service to the flats on weekends, what does that logistically mean for TC station, where you enter the Blue/Green terminal via turnstiles and hop on Blue/Green trains that are already running their regular schedule?  To let people downtown into the terminal area for free you have to give them farecards for free.  I don't know how you would discern between people using the "Free" service of the WFL vs. the regular Blue and Green line service.  I don't know that you would WANT to do that, given the optics of giving Flats patrons free rides to night life while people are paying (or have already paid) to ride home from their jobs.  Unless you could subsidize ALL Blue/Green service at those particular hours I'm unsure how it could be done.

 

Whether or not the trolley service is actually the better service can be debated, but as you stated - people love the trolleys, they have well-posted routes, and are free.  The well-posted thing is important because as has been discussed in the past, the rail service in this town is criminally undermarketed.  Think about those hotel tourists along the C-line who may get stuck in traffic heading down the hill on a busy night; they were told about the free trolley that will take them to the flats.  But would they be told that for $2.50 and maybe a 10 minute walk to TC they could bypass all that traffic and get on a 5 minute WFL ride?

At some point in the not too distant future, ridership on the Trolleys may surpass ridership on Cleveland's light rail lines.  Right now it's about 1.5M per year on the Trolleys (growing in recent years) vs. 2.5M on the Green and Blue Lines (shrinking in recent years).

 

Those figures seem unbelievable. How are they able to estimate ridership on trolleys when they're free and there's nothing counting the passengers boarding?

 

Absolutely.  Hell I don't see how RTA is counting or even estimating Red Line ridership accurately.  I'm noticing lots of people making non-downtown, short hop trips on the West Side especially -- which is a good thing; more like traditional rapid transit.  Crowds seem to have grown considerably in the last few years.  I have no idea how RTA is counting this.  RTA doesn't even post daily ridership numbers.

 

Greater Cleveland RTA ridership dips to record low; annual ridership, 1976-2016

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority ridership dipped to a record low of 43.8 million in 2016.

 

The decline of 6.9 percent represented the second straight year of losses after increasing ridership for the transit agency in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014, the RTA reported.

 

The previous record low of 44.7 million riders was in 2010.

 

Below is a chart showing year-by-year ridership since the the first year of the regional transit agency in 1976, formed with the merger of several municipal public transit services.

 

The record high of 125.9 million riders was set in 1979, the fourth year of operation.

 

Transit ridership is the result of numerous factors, including the service offered, the concentration of jobs downtown at the core of the system, traffic delays (or lack of them), gasoline prices, parking rates, employment and public funding.

 

In a budget decision, RTA reduced routes and increased fares in August 2016.

 

The Greater Cleveland RTA is Ohio's largest transit agency, carrying more than double the number of riders than the Central Ohio Transit Authority in the Columbus area. COTA reported ridership of 18,827,846 in 2016.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2017/03/greater_cleveland_rta_ridershi_2.html

 

 

When did the RTA become part of the busing program?

 

I was a regular rider then and a lot of people quit riding at about that time.  I would suspect that the students were counted in those numbers.

 

Which would mean an even bigger full-fare passenger drop slightly earlier, which was never recouped.

 

Transit ridership is the result of numerous factors, including the service offered, the concentration of jobs downtown at the core of the system, traffic delays (or lack of them), gasoline prices, parking rates, employment and public funding.

 

In a budget decision, RTA reduced routes and increased fares in August 2016.

 

Yes, with some factors having much more weight than others. Let's not get it twisted. "Services offered" make much more of an impact than gasoline prices or parking rates. Ridership is mainly dropping because people can't take bus routes that no longer exist... If anything, outside of "Services offered" there's no excuse for the numbers not to go up. Ever try to park downtown during a big event? I hope you have $25-30 cash on you that you're willing to put towards parking. Gas has been cheap, lately.

 

There needs to be bigger emphasis on the real problem and real solutions. It's too easy for politicians to spin this and use lower ridership as an excuse to cut funding.

Didn't RTA recently win some award, or at least title, for best transit system in America? I saw a bunch of flags or posters outside of the RTA office downtown recently, proclaiming that. Who had to get down on their knees for them to somehow obtain that title?

 

Certain aspects of the system are good but overall, it's garbage.

Didn't RTA recently win some award, or at least title, for best transit system in America? I saw a bunch of flags or posters outside of the RTA office downtown recently, proclaiming that. Who had to get down on their knees for them to somehow obtain that title?

 

Certain aspects of the system are good but overall, it's garbage.

 

Yeah, 10 years ago...

I vaguely vaguely vaguely remember there was something disingenuous about the award too.

Transit ridership is not only due to the loss of downtown jobs and shopping but also where those downtown commuters reside. As recently as the early 1980s, downtown commuters lived in the City of Cleveland, East Cleveland, Euclid, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, University Heights, Lakewood, and Parma. Back then you could walk out your front door down the side street and to the main road where you caught the bus direct to downtown Cleveland. Nowadays, downtown commuters live all over the place, many of which are beyond the reach of the transit system. And nowadays, fewer residents of Cleveland and the inner-ring suburbs work downtown. With the origin and destination points for commuters scattered all over the place, it is very difficult for transit to serve this scattergraph of work trips. Only stronger land use planning, redevelopment incentives, a revised route matrix and more secure funding base for transit can overcome this.

^I hear you KJP and wish we could expand the rail lines to be more better reach where the population is and where it wants to go... But I'm also a realist.  As long as we have Joe Calabrese as RTA GM and as well as we have the current political mindset -- not just in Columbus but at E. 6th and Lakeside -- the idea of rail transit growth here is a pipe dream.  But we can, and must fight against forces, like Calabrese, who may try and shrink what we've got behind the excuse of poor budgets.  Despite the lack of operating expenses from the State coupled with higher fuel costs and shrinking Cuyahoga County sales tax revenue, the mentality of Calabrese makes things that much worse.

 

So realistically rather than fight for rail expansion to where people are/want to go, I just want to maintain what we have and keep growing people and jobs where the rail lines already are... and we're seeing some progress.  The TOD growth in Little Italy and (hopefully) continued growth at FEB is encouraging.  And we can't forget the core TOD growth around Tower City like Beacon, and maybe nuCLEus and Weston (including the Public Square people-friendly makeover).  The fact that core rail stations at TC and Ohio City are loaded with venues where people want to frequent (and where many are open to using rail transit to get to) is moving things in the right direction...  I'm thinking, also, that multi-unit residential & retail growth on the Lakefront around/behind Browns (excuse me),... First Energy Stadium will get some more riders on the WFL even though the WFL doesn't directly go on the north side of the Shoreway.

 

I think if the North Coast Transportation Center gets built and, perhaps, if that discount shopping complex (the term of art is escaped me at the moment) gets built in the Muny parking lot, these could also boost riding.  It's beyond hope at this point of encouraging Calabrese to do anything.  We need, however, to get smart-minded leaders, like Chris Ronayne to act .... it was his leadership of UCI that not only encouraged the amazing Uptown + spin-off development, like Centric which are sturdy TODs, he also pushed for the Rapid station to be relocated to Little Italy.  To hear Ronayne talk you quickly access that he understands what it takes to have a positive urban environment and experience... Does anybody believe any of this would have been pushed by Calabrese?  If so, you're delusional. 

 

We've got to target such influential individuals who 'get it' like Ronayne, Ari Maron and Adam Fishman.  These people, and a few others, understand TOD and the value of mass transit.  It still amazes me that the transit chief, himself, doesn't.

"@GCRTA: Real-time bus location info is now available! Visit http://www.rideRTA.com/apps  for available smartphone apps."

The loss of housing stock (and especially quality housing stock) and employers along Cleveland rail and high-frequency lines since the 1970s is astounding. That makes it real tough for high-frequency transit to link jobs to residents when neither is within walking distance of stations/stops. Our region's economic development organizations, from government to the nonprofit/CDC sector to the private sector, need to redouble their efforts to focus planning/visioning, land clearing/assembly, and development incentives to locations within a five-minute walk of stations/stops. Without this concerted effort, our transit system will continue to fade away while pockets of concentrated poverty will continue to worsen.

^Wow, what a depressing assessment.  I realize the massive housing losses in East Cleveland near the last 2 station stops, but that's only one small corner of the rail network. I thought housing areas at/near rail stations were among the more stable, even expanding, in Cleveland and close-in suburbs... Shaker Sq, UC-Uptown/Little Italy (explosive), Ohio City, Shaker Heights, lower Cleve Hts, Beachwood, Kamms Corner, Det-Shoreway, TC-Gateway, Birdtown, FEB, etc

 

It just seem strange that while old industrial, bus-only/car-oriented cities like Detroit, KC, Milwaukee, Cincy, etc are giddy over their brand new 1 or 2 mile streetcar loops trying to catch up with more progressive mass transit cities, many in Cleveland seem indifferent to and ready to give up on its substantial (actual) rail rapid transit system.  It's things like this where the 'Only in Cleveland' barb applies.

Lots of talk in the FEB thread about the new Collision Bend micro-brew/restaurant.  It's interesting that when RTA's Waterfront Line was new, even a moderately upscale restaurant like the Watermark (which was in the same spot Collision Bend occupies today) used to print on its menu's and literature that the restaurant was only steps away from the FEB station, even including a small map of the juxtaposition of the restaurant and the Rapid station...

 

Nowadays since the WFL has become such a hated facility by RTA much of the public, no way would Collision Bend or any new restaurant tout the trains. People would look at you strangely if you even suggest anything but driving, cabbing or walking up and downhill in/out of the Flats as a means of getting there... Funny how things change.

We're going to Collision Bend tonight, and some of my coworkers from the east side are taking the train, so the market for the WFL isn't totally dead. I'm sure just a little bit of that promotion, especially the price of parking in comparison, would go a long way.

I wish RTA could run the WFL free from municipal lot to tower city

I wish RTA could run the WFL free from municipal lot to tower city

 

Tough to do with the trains running through Tower City. You pretty much need to have a Waterfront Line-only train and separate, fare-free boarding areas at Tower City.

I'm struggling with this concept of 'some people' being entitled to ride for free while others aren't.

 

The entire system already disproportionately caters to tourists, students and suburbanites out on the weekend much more than Clevelanders who actually rely on it and use it regularly. Those people contribute to the local economy too, you know.

^ having a fare free zone is not some crazy idea.  Many cities do this and it helps move people around downtown.

I'm struggling with this concept of 'some people' being entitled to ride for free while others aren't.

 

The entire system already disproportionately caters to tourists, students and suburbanites out on the weekend much more than Clevelanders who actually rely on it and use it regularly. Those people contribute to the local economy too, you know.

 

I don't think you're fully aware of where RTA's high-frequency routes are and who uses them. I saw your post in the Cleveland Heights thread and, yes, RTA has lost a lot of its routes, shortened others, and made most less frequent. But the system still has far more service than any other Ohio City and caters to Cleveland residents and not suburban residents. It's why Cleveland RTA carries more than double the riders that COTA carries.

 

Here's the annual transit ridership in Ohio's largest cities. https://t.co/YoHoWlsEur

^ having a fare free zone is not some crazy idea.  Many cities do this and it helps move people around downtown.

 

Yeah, and I'm sure it's effective since nothing beats free but it's certainly not fair to other riders. You're fooling yourself if you think they aren't meant to cater to certain demographics who otherwise wouldn't take public transit, more than they're meant to speed up service. No one talks about this issue for some reason. I guess it's too uncomfortable.

 

I never got on board with the concept of a regional transit authority having some routes free and not others. It almost always seems to coincidentally benefit the affluent and tourists. I guess I'm getting a little social-justicey but it just doesn't seem right to me. I saw this in Columbus, with the "C-Bus." It's similar to the trolly system downtown but more of a linear line. It's this truly amazing line that takes you from Downtown all the way to OSU. It runs very frequently, every 10-15 minutes at all hours - I think until 3am but maybe even until 4am. It essentially caters to white collar workers commuting from Downtown who live in The Short North and of course drunken OSU college students who they anticipate will spend money in the SN and downtown, but also the partying trust fund babies residing in The Short North. Meanwhile everyone else who either isn't a student or can't afford to live in the Short North (where it's about 1300 a month to rent a 1bdrm apartment) is paying 2.25 for their trip down High St. - in many cases, from their minimum wage job downtown to farther out parts of High St - usually before having to transfer.

 

I just don't believe it's fair that some people are entitled to ride public transit for free while others are obligated to pay, which allows the system to function and exist. The affluent with disposable income, gracing everyone else aboard with their presence, is not a justifiable cause for free fares.

You've made this comment before and you're wrong.  Do you even ride buses?

^Is he wrong, or just voicing an opinion you don't agree with?