Something has changed since the housing market crash.  The stark division between city and suburb, especially inner suburb, has lessened greatly.  Places like Euclid, Garfield Heights, Lakewood, Brooklyn, Independence, even Solon, have seen major increases in transit-dependent people as well as in many cases non-transit-friendly jobs.  It no longer makes sense IMO to think that the city and the rest of the county have starkly differing interests.  It is not always even the case that the city has the densest population.  (Euclid is very comparable; Lakewood's is actually almost double Cleveland's).  If the county as a whole cannot see the case for a frugally but adequately funded transit network, then Cleveland and First Suburbs, and anyone else interested, should band together and work to create a funding district specifically for creating such a network.  And let me point out, as usual, one thing that will piss off conserberals and libervatives alike:  Transit GREATLY benefits downtown property owners, making the job density of downtown or University Circle possible.  Taxation is never fair, but, if you want it to be as fair as possible, you have to find a way to make them pick up their share, and the best way to do that is to give them some positive motivation to do so.  How?  I'm not quite sure.  Naming/branding rights are a step in the right direction.  I loathe property taxes but perhaps a modest levy on downtown commercial real estate (only) would be fair compensation for bringing tens of thousands of workers downtown at (mostly) other taxpayers' expense?  And in the year 2017 (almost 2018) it is important to look ahead to the point where not only Uber and Lyft, but multiple fleets of self-driving vehicles, will dramatically change the face of transit.  My guess: buses will decrease in importance except along the busiest corridors; rail will greatly INCREASE in importance because it is the one and only thing, even in 2018, that has the potential to bypass the increasing density of traffic that even Cleveland should see when and if the local economy ever begins to stabilize and grow again.  And such buses as continue to exist will probably need to be consolidated so as to provide better/more frequent service on a smaller number of routes.  A single frequent route to, say, Solon, might make a lot more sense than 4 or 5 infrequent ones, if at the end of the frequent route, riders can hire cheap, autonomous vehicles to take them the last mile or two.

 

The irony of course is that this would be the opposite approach from that taken since the merger of the various systems into GCRTA.  Maple Heights and Garfield Heights, for example, were quite transit friendly communities when they had their own systems, but the idea of “bigger is better” government still held sway in the mid 70s and like all too often happens did more harm than good.  The system became downtown/inner city centric at a time that the population’s mindset was shifting in the opposite direction.  The fact that downtown is on a periphery of the region for obvious geographical reasons only compounded this issue.

RTA's board was meeting today to discuss what kind of cuts they will be making. Not sure when we will hear anything from it though.

Leaders hope new MetroHealth Line buses boost neighborhood (photos)

Dec. 6, 2017 Updated 7:03 AM;

By Grant Segall, The Plain Dealer

[email protected]

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Community leaders hope that 20 new buses rolling out Thursday on the renamed MetroHealth Line will help to rev up the West 25th Street neighborhood.

 

Dr. Akram Boutros, the MetroHealth System's president and chief executive officer, said that the line is just part of about $100 million in expected neighborhood improvements over the next five years. He hopes to raise money to help build homes, create a business incubator and boost La Villa Hispana, a portion of the West Side. He's also overseeing a roughly $800 million remake of his main campus on West 25th.

 

"We think we can transform this struggling neighborhood to become a vibrant part of the city and be an example for other neighborhoods," said Boutros. "If you look at what the HealthLine did for the Euclid Avenue corridor, we expect we'll draw millions of dollars in investments, create new businesses, doubling the number of jobs, filling our restaurants and galleries and stores."

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/12/leaders_hope_new_metrohealth_l.html

"Officials credit the line with spurring more than $6 billion in growth nearby. Ridership has risen about 60 percent."

 

Say what? I know RTA pads their statistics with those transfers, but still...60 percent? And don't get me started on their bullshit about $6 billion in investments.

The HealthLine ridership growth of 60 percent was based on the ridership of the #6 Euclid bus in its final year vs the HealthLine today. What it doesn't take into account is that RTA no longer runs to downtown the #7, #9, #28X, #32 (with branches to Cedar, Fairmount, Silsby) as limited-stop runs on Euclid/Chester. As recently as the 1980s, those buses accounted for more than 50,000 weekday trips vs the HealthLine's 16,000 weekday trips.

 

What was great about the HealthLine is that is was part of an entire package of urban redevelopment initiatives -- multi-agency/industry cooperation, transportation investment, sub-street infrastructure investment, focused existing and new development incentives, rezoning, etc. It was everything the Waterfront Line was not, where the city told RTA to plop down a rail line and said they were done. Let both experiences be a lesson to us.

RTA got away with lying about the Euclid bus, which has emboldened it to make even goofier claims about the West 25th bus.  At some point there has to be accountability.  Up is up and down is down.

The HealthLine ridership growth of 60 percent was based on the ridership of the #6 Euclid bus in its final year vs the HealthLine today. What it doesn't take into account is that RTA no longer runs to downtown the #7, #9, #28X, #32 (with branches to Cedar, Fairmount, Silsby) as limited-stop runs on Euclid/Chester. As recently as the 1980s, those buses accounted for more than 50,000 weekday trips vs the HealthLine's 16,000 weekday trips.

 

What was great about the HealthLine is that is was part of an entire package of urban redevelopment initiatives -- multi-agency/industry cooperation, transportation investment, sub-street infrastructure investment, focused existing and new development incentives, rezoning, etc. It was everything the Waterfront Line was not, where the city told RTA to plop down a rail line and said they were done. Let both experiences be a lesson to us.

 

I think this is the exact approach we need.  I am skeptical that the future of transit can be in serving ever more sprawling development on the fringe of the urban center.  As jtadams said a few posts up, RTA should focus on a few main lines with a high level of service, and work with the city and other agencies to focus development around them.

Google Maps will soon tell you when it’s time to get off your train or bus

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2017/12/09/google-maps-will-soon-tell-you-when-its-time-to-get-off-your-train-or-bus/amp/#ampshare=https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/09/google-maps-will-soon-tell-you-when-its-time-to-get-off-your-train-or-bus/

Public transit sputters as state funding falls short. Local transit eyeing regional solutions to statewide problem as funding woes mount

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20171209/news/145046/public-transit-sputters-state-funding-falls-short

Merely filling the MCO tax loss is merely surviving. That's the 2nd-worst option to service cuts/fare increases. GCRTA must also replace $60+ million per year in sales taxes lost from population outmigration so it can modernize & expand to reach more than just 1 out of 4 jobs.

 

Sales tax or property tax increase may be required to keep RTA viable, report says

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2017/12/a_sales_tax_or_property_tax_increase_may_be_needed_to_keep_rta_viable_report_says.html

In the 1st photo, large groups of RTA passengers accumulate around stops downtown because the frequency of service is so bad.

 

In the second, do college students really have to get in a block-long line for the best parking permits? What if we had more/better/affordable alternatives than driving/parking?

 

But in the absence of focus, perhaps I should delete the photos so that they do not distract from the more important parts of that post?

 

This first photo is hardly indicative of poor transit service.  That's not a heck of a lot of people waiting for several buses for a transit system the size of Cleveland's.  Also, it looks like it may be late afternoon, possibly even ''rush hour''. 

 

If anything, the first photo shows a lack of transit use in Cleveland.

It was at 10 am. I took the photo.  And the point of the photo is that you have that many people waiting for a bus at that time of day tells you how infrequent the bus service is.

In the 1st photo, large groups of RTA passengers accumulate around stops downtown because the frequency of service is so bad.

 

In the second, do college students really have to get in a block-long line for the best parking permits? What if we had more/better/affordable alternatives than driving/parking?

 

But in the absence of focus, perhaps I should delete the photos so that they do not distract from the more important parts of that post?

 

This first photo is hardly indicative of poor transit service.  That's not a heck of a lot of people waiting for several buses for a transit system the size of Cleveland's.  Also, it looks like it may be late afternoon, possibly even ''rush hour''. 

 

If anything, the first photo shows a lack of transit use in Cleveland.

\\

 

Are you just here to troll? Because if you are, this isn't the forum for it.

In the 1st photo, large groups of RTA passengers accumulate around stops downtown because the frequency of service is so bad.

 

In the second, do college students really have to get in a block-long line for the best parking permits? What if we had more/better/affordable alternatives than driving/parking?

 

But in the absence of focus, perhaps I should delete the photos so that they do not distract from the more important parts of that post?

 

This first photo is hardly indicative of poor transit service.  That's not a heck of a lot of people waiting for several buses for a transit system the size of Cleveland's.  Also, it looks like it may be late afternoon, possibly even ''rush hour''. 

 

If anything, the first photo shows a lack of transit use in Cleveland.

\\

 

Are you just here to troll? Because if you are, this isn't the forum for it.

 

Trolling?  Hardly.  Just questioning a post with picture claiming that Cleveland has lousy transit service because about 25 people are standing around two (2) bus stops that looks like at least 7 or so buses serve. 

 

It's a pretty basic concept: demand creates supply.  In Cleveland, transit demand has decreased; therefore, transit service will decrease.  Unless, for example, it's rebuilding the non-used E 34/Campus Station. 

 

Please note there are two (2) bus stops in that pic.

This isn't a free-market situation so you can't say demand has decreased. Usage has decreased but correlates to fare increases and reductions in service. Consider that RTA anticipated last year's fare increase would boost revenue by $2.5 million per year and cause only a slight decrease in ridership. Instead, ridership dropped more than anticipated and revenues rose only $800,000 in the past year.

 

This is called a death spiral in the transit industry. When you have a financial bind, such as from a reduction in sales taxes due to worsening no-growth urban sprawl, you decrease service and raise fares which causes ridership to drop. You then have to decrease service and raise fares which causes ridership to drop further.

 

In a city our size but with decent transit service, it would be very unusual to have a crowd that large waiting at a stop (or two) at 10 am. You'd have buses coming and going every five minutes, so no crowd that big would amass. We'd have most routes designed in a grid pattern rather than have radial, low-frequency routes converge on a single downtown hub because $60 million per year of your former sales tax base has outmigrated to collar counties since the 1970s.

 

Tell me how do I shrink that down into a tweet-size text?

This isn't a free-market situation so you can't say demand has decreased. Usage has decreased but correlates to fare increases and reductions in service. Consider that RTA anticipated last year's fare increase would boost revenue by $2.5 million per year and cause only a slight decrease in ridership. Instead, ridership dropped more than anticipated and revenues rose only $800,000 in the past year.

 

This is called a death spiral in the transit industry. When you have a financial bind, such as from a reduction in sales taxes due to worsening no-growth urban sprawl, you decrease service and raise fares which causes ridership to drop. You then have to decrease service and raise fares which causes ridership to drop further.

 

In a city our size but with decent transit service, it would be very unusual to have a crowd that large waiting at a stop (or two) at 10 am. You'd have buses coming and going every five minutes, so no crowd that big would amass. We'd have most routes designed in a grid pattern rather than have radial, low-frequency routes converge on a single downtown hub because $60 million per year of your former sales tax base has outmigrated to collar counties since the 1970s.

 

Tell me how do I shrink that down into a tweet-size text?

 

Tweet: Sprawl, population and employment decline tanked RTA.  Political leadership here is stuck in the '70s.

 

How can you cite that information and preface it with the ''you can't say demand has decreased''? 

 

 

This isn't a free-market situation so you can't say demand has decreased. Usage has decreased but correlates to fare increases and reductions in service. Consider that RTA anticipated last year's fare increase would boost revenue by $2.5 million per year and cause only a slight decrease in ridership. Instead, ridership dropped more than anticipated and revenues rose only $800,000 in the past year.

 

This is called a death spiral in the transit industry. When you have a financial bind, such as from a reduction in sales taxes due to worsening no-growth urban sprawl, you decrease service and raise fares which causes ridership to drop. You then have to decrease service and raise fares which causes ridership to drop further.

 

In a city our size but with decent transit service, it would be very unusual to have a crowd that large waiting at a stop (or two) at 10 am. You'd have buses coming and going every five minutes, so no crowd that big would amass. We'd have most routes designed in a grid pattern rather than have radial, low-frequency routes converge on a single downtown hub because $60 million per year of your former sales tax base has outmigrated to collar counties since the 1970s.

 

Tell me how do I shrink that down into a tweet-size text?

 

Well those Cleveland Muni Court ordered new ''fare checkers'' should result in lots of new revenue.  Might as well layoff some of those RTA cops as well since they're so intimidating to RTA Riders.

 

How can you cite that information and preface it with the ''you can't say demand has decreased''? 

 

 

Want = demand. I want to use RTA. It doesn't exist where/when I want to use it, though it did not too long ago. Does that mean that my demand does not exist?

 

How can you cite that information and preface it with the ''you can't say demand has decreased''? 

 

 

Want = demand. I want to use RTA. It doesn't exist where/when I want to use it, though it did not too long ago. Does that mean that my demand does not exist?

 

Need=Demand.  Wanting and needing are two different things. There aren't any ''needers'' in your scenario.  Why would RTA serve your ''where and when I want'' scenario? RTA serves or should serve where the ''need'' for transit exists.

 

Why no accounting for the people that don't work downtown anymore, live in the suburbs or collar counties?  No more need.

 

Why is RTA spending $7.5 million on rebuilding the E 34/Campus station?  A location with no need for public transit let alone any ''wanters'' of it, yet it is served with a new station.  Wouldn't that $$ be better spent in an area where there is a need for public transit, unless of course it's a ''want where and when I need it'' situation as you described.

 

 

 

I think we're quibbling over want/need.  Point is, just because there is a want/need out there, doesn't mean that RTA can serve it.  There is also a want/need in the Campus District for the East 34th/Campud station. Sure there's probably better needs out there, but maintaining the status quo usually gets served first.

From RTA (BTW, each Red Line railcar seats 80, not 160)...

 

RTA Red Line customers may notice that RTA is using single car trains intermittently throughout the day, resulting in some customers standing during their commute on crowded cars.

The safety of our customers is our first priority. So while it may not convenient to ride on crowded trains, we have chosen customer safety over the inconvenience of standing.

 

The reason is that when rail wheels are worn to a diameters that is below RTA and national rail industry standards, the wheels are removed from service.  Over the past several weeks, some wheels have gotten to that point and have been taken out of service. We had placed an order for new wheels long ago and are awaiting delivery.

 

To our knowledge, our use of single car trains has not caused any customers to be unserved, as standing while riding is a common occurrence on trains and buses both in Cleveland and in most major transit systems around the world.  RTA’s Red Line cars are rated to each transport 160 seated passengers or 230 with standees.

 

We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience. We expect to return the rails cars back into service with new wheels in February.

Score one for AAO and human decency....

 

Thanks to AAO At-Large Board Member TPH2[/member] (Tom Horsman) for doing the little things that improve the experience for transit riders in Cleveland and throughout Ohio. Tom is a true advocate for better, low-mileage lifestyles! Go AAO team!!

 

Dan Gilbert moved by a tweet to allow RTA riders to wait inside Tower City lobby on frigid nights

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2018/01/dan_gilbert_moved_by_a_tweet_t.html

TMH[/member]

 

TPH2* ;)

Fixed

Way to go!!

 

One thing I don't understand, if the RTA patrons were using the bus they couldn't be inside. But obviously if they were using the Rapid they could be inside. It seems very strange to me.

Way to go!!

 

One thing I don't understand, if the RTA patrons were using the bus they couldn't be inside. But obviously if they were using the Rapid they could be inside. It seems very strange to me.

 

Well, RTA owns the rail station under the mall, but Bedrock owns the mall itself. The issue was that the mall was closed because it was late in the evening, and so "loitering" inside the mall is prohibited at that time (you can only walk to and from the rail station or parking lot during those hours). During the hours when the mall is open, there isn't an issue with riders waiting inside the Tower City lobby, they will typically just make sure you're not standing inside the doorway.

Maybe Frank Jackson can give it a try now that he's in his fourth term?

 

Mayor Kapszukiewicz takes first TARTA commute to work

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2018/01/08/A-bus-ride-with-the-mayor.html

Great cities don't exist without great public transportation. But cities do fade when their transit systems + access to jobs, education, health care, shopping, etc are allowed to fade. The correlation is real.

 

RTA Will Likely Cut 2.5 Million Rides, Lay Off 160-200 Workers Due to Lost Revenue

https://m.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/01/09/rta-will-likely-cut-25-million-rides-lay-off-160-200-workers-due-to-lost-revenue

^Something needs to be done asap. City and county leaders need to get together and figure this out.

Federal & state govts keep pushing transportation funding responsibilities onto local/regional govts because they don't care about you. It falls on our city/county leaders to take charge of our transit system for the better...

 

Crain's editorial: Running on empty

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20180121/voices01/149216/crains-editorial-running-empty

Is there a LakeTran thread?  Didn't see one in a search...

 

Laketran aims to aid Mentor industries' quest for workers on Tyler Boulevard

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/laketran_aims_to_aid_mentor_in.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Is there a LakeTran thread?  Didn't see one in a search...

 

Laketran aims to aid Mentor industries' quest for workers on Tyler Boulevard

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/laketran_aims_to_aid_mentor_in.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

There's a "Ohio's Small & Rural Transit Systems News & Discussion" thread https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,6328.150.html

Is there a LakeTran thread?  Didn't see one in a search...

 

Laketran aims to aid Mentor industries' quest for workers on Tyler Boulevard

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/laketran_aims_to_aid_mentor_in.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

there used to be a separate Laketran thread, but they took it away from us. Even though it's clearly integrated into the Greater Cleveland transit network, apparently Lake County is largely composed of cows and farms, like Petticoat Junction ;)

^ lake county, isn't that part of Amish Country?

 

:)

^you know perfectly well that's Geauga County >:(

^ hey.  I put in a smiley face. 

^so did I!

I've often felt that Lakewood could financially support a restoration of the very successful Lakewood circulator. Too bad they didn't get into the funding and instead got into a sideshow about driverless buses....

 

Lakewood residents testing support for community RTA route

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/lakewood-residents-testing-support-for-community-route

Anyone ride the HL lately? The drivers checking fares is going pretty smoothly these days. Now that everyone knows to head to the front when they get on, it's not so bad. I just rode a rush hour bus from Public Square to the Clinic.

^ I find it to be rather clumsy if you are at a stop with a lot of riders.  It seems to be causing more bunching during rush hour too.  That's just my observation.

Anyone ride the HL lately? The drivers checking fares is going pretty smoothly these days. Now that everyone knows to head to the front when they get on, it's not so bad. I just rode a rush hour bus from Public Square to the Clinic.

 

I know I'm asking a lot from an agency that invested in POP machines that I have to kneel at, but why hasn't public transit entered the RFID world?  I would think technology would allow someone's pass to be read as they step on the bus, with minimal involvement from the driver?

^Contactless fare media is pretty common across the world, including in many US systems. Usually requires a tap, so not quite like EZ pass, but still a lot faster than the old swipe media.  RTA's fare media are pretty archaic, even by US standards.

RTA has claimed that contactless fare media is too expensive and RTA can't afford it. A few years ago, All Aboard Ohio estimated that buses waiting for passengers to board and pay their fares comprised up to one-third of the service-hours of the 10-busiest bus routes. That equals millions of dollars per year which could offset the costs of activating a contact-less fare collection system whose hardware is already in place. But RTA doesn't usually think in terms of using cost savings to finance the capital investments necessary to achieve those cost savings. If they can't get a grant for something, they often deem it unaffordable.

^^I used to work in a business selling to trucking fleets. We only used to concentrate on those that had enough control over and understanding of their own business that you could talk to them about cost per mile/ hour/ freight tonne etc. The rest, who could only look at things in terms of actual acquisition cost of new technology were a complete bust. It’s a clear sign that they’ve no actual control over the business they’re running. They’re also the fleets that sooner or later go bang.

Federal & state govts keep pushing transportation funding responsibilities onto local/regional govts because they don't care about you. It falls on our city/county leaders to take charge of our transit system for the better...

 

No.  Neither party cares about you or me.  They both suck, each worse than the other.  But that is not the problem.

 

In this case, they are doing something right.  They are pushing funding responsibilities onto local/regional governments because that is where it belongs. 

 

Nothing in the federal or most state constitutions authorizes anyone in Cleveland, New York, or anyplace else to force the population of rural, agricultural Bumblefart County, Nebraska to pay for their transit. 

 

Note that the same is true of subsidies for local streets, roads, highways, bridges, Opportunity Corridor boulevards, and so forth.  Neither automotive transportation nor transit should receive subsidies.  I fully get that cars/roads do get them, transit outside NYC doesn't, and that is part of why we're in this mess.

 

But it is not going to change anytime soon.  It might never. 

 

Rather than crying about it, why don't we accept it, and figure out a way to fund a truly excellent system without demanding that others pay for it at gunpoint???

 

Before crying that "it can't be done," could we pleeeeeeease consider that it is *already* being done in many places around the world, including city-states like Singapore where there is no Bumblefart County to pay?  Or that it was being done right here for about a century before the GI bill and suburbanization made transit less profitable? 

 

You don't have to like it.  I sure don't.  But whining that "the GOP suxx0rs because they won't gimme other people's money, WAAAH" does at most nothing, and possibly less than nothing, to fix it. 

 

We either dig OURSELVES out somehow, or the transit "death spiral" continues and takes down the entire economy with it.

 

How about we start talking about how?

Pay for it at gunpoint? Crying? You lose your argument with hyperbole.

 

The entire system of government is based on the idea that you can’t pay for something that is a common good on your own. I can’t pay for highways on my own, nor can agricultural counties afford some of the subsidies for new roads or 5g internet service on their own. We work together to make the state work as a whole.

I've often felt that Lakewood could financially support a restoration of the very successful Lakewood circulator. Too bad they didn't get into the funding and instead got into a sideshow about driverless buses....

 

Lakewood residents testing support for community RTA route

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/lakewood-residents-testing-support-for-community-route

 

Lakewood, where I live as well, is rare among NE Ohio communities in being both sufficiently dense, and sufficiently prosperous, that something like this really should work here, if it will work anywhere.  But here is my guess:  Uber/Lyft got much of their foothold because of the brokenness of our overall transportation system, not limited to but certainly including transit.  Since the original Circulator disappeared, they now serve the short-haul, transit-dependent market in Lakewood better than transit itself can.  The coming fleets of driverless/autonomous vehicles potentially might do so even better.  I would like to see the Circulator revived, but honestly I think it is already too late for that.

 

Here is what it is *not* too late for:  improved long-haul transit to and from the central city and other job centers, probably evolving into a hub-spoke mile with ridesharing and/or autonomous vehicles increasingly serving the "last mile" in one or both directions.  And guess what: rail works WAY better in this role than buses possibly could.  Plus, it is the one thing that can offer value in the central city and other congested areas that autonomous vehicles cannot.

 

Let's think outside the box here and not be discouraged when 20th century solutions prove to have been already made obsolete by the first sixth of the 21st.

What are everyone's thoughts on a rideshare use fee to help fill some of the rta financial gap?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2018/02/cuyahoga_county_asked_to_impose_fee_on_uber_and_lyft_ride-sharing_to_help_rta.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

Pay for it at gunpoint? Crying? You lose your argument with hyperbole.

 

The entire system of government is based on the idea that you can’t pay for something that is a common good on your own. I can’t pay for highways on my own, nor can agricultural counties afford some of the subsidies for new roads or 5g internet service on their own. We work together to make the state work as a whole.

 

That is Marxism, not freedom.  Marxism is unsustainable.  Crying about that won't change it either.  We have to learn to live in the real world.

What are everyone's thoughts on a rideshare use fee to help fill some of the rta financial gap?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2018/02/cuyahoga_county_asked_to_impose_fee_on_uber_and_lyft_ride-sharing_to_help_rta.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

 

Increasingly, at least in more enlightened places, rideshare will fill in the "last mile" connecting increasingly sparse but hopefully higher-frequency bus (edit:) and rail routes with homes and businesses beyond walking distance from those routes, but easily within a very short drive.  RTA should be COOPERATING with rideshare services, not seeking to tax them out of existence.