My wife lived in Pittsburgh for 5 years before we both moved back “home” to Cleveland. I would argue it’s the density and traffic of Pittsburgh both caused by its topography. I also think having more college students in the area helps this. Any new residents to any city help remove “stigmas” or stereotypes of neighborhoods or public transit bias because they often don’t have those predetermined notions baked in.

1 hour ago, Clefan14 said:

My wife lived in Pittsburgh for 5 years before we both moved back “home” to Cleveland. I would argue it’s the density and traffic of Pittsburgh both caused by its topography. I also think having more college students in the area helps this. Any new residents to any city help remove “stigmas” or stereotypes of neighborhoods or public transit bias because they often don’t have those predetermined notions baked in.

 

Good point about the colleges. I spent a couple of days in the Oakland neighborhood last month and forgot how big Pitt is. It's almost 40,000 students. Then there's Carnegie-Mellon and Duquesne.

The state of Pennsylvania provided PAT $234.3 million for FY 2019-2020 (PAT’s fiscal year runs July 1st to June 30th) and Allegheny County was required to provide a 15% match.  The matching amount came in at $32.2 for a funding total of $266.5 million.  Aside from that county match, PAT does not receive any county money.  That system is not funded via sales tax revenue.

Source: https://triblive.com/opinion/colin-mcnickle-budget-challenges-for-port-authority/

 

For 2019, RTA’s sales tax revenue was $215.5 million.  For a system that carries about ½ half the number of passengers and has about half the equipment, a difference of $51 million does not seem that out of line.  What RTA doesn't get in state funding is proportionally more than made up in sales tax revenue.

Source: RTA's 2019 Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR): http://www.riderta.com/CAFR/2019

 

Dumb question:  Is the RTA prohibited from providing service outside Cuyahoga County? 

 

It seems like lost opportunities that several routes don't  end at logical terminuses outside the county.  

18 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Dumb question:  Is the RTA prohibited from providing service outside Cuyahoga County? 

 

It seems like lost opportunities that several routes don't  end at logical terminuses outside the county.  

I'm guessing the answer is yes since the RTA is funded by the Cuyahoga County sales tax.   

28 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I'm guessing the answer is yes since the RTA is funded by the Cuyahoga County sales tax.   

No, RTA can and does run outside of Cuyahoga County.  The #30 and #39 end at Shoregate Shopping Center in Willowick (Lake County).  Shoregate provides the best terminus for those routes.  The #251 runs to Brunswick.  In its earlier days, RTA used to provide more service to Lake County.  When it started to pull back, it was the beginning of Laketran.  Those services may require an out-of-county surcharge.

 

Laketran does provide service on East 260th Street and Euclid Avenue (Route #2), however most of the route they operate is within Lake County.  The 3 highway coach routes to downtown Cleveland are the #10, #11 & #12.

Edited November 2, 20213 yr by LifeLongClevelander

1 hour ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

No, RTA can and does run outside of Cuyahoga County.

 

Does it require special agreement with Lake Cty?  It looks like RTA routes 41 and 90 could logically terminate somewhere in Summit Cty like Twinsburg, Macedonia, or even Streetsboro.

30 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

Does it require special agreement with Lake Cty?  It looks like RTA routes 41 and 90 could logically terminate somewhere in Summit Cty like Twinsburg, Macedonia, or even Streetsboro.

Don't know.  The #251 to Brunswick is sponsored by that city (plus Strongsville).  The terminus for RTA's #30 & #39 is due to not having a good place to end those runs on Lakeshore Blvd before crossing over to Lake County.  RTA (and even before that, CTS) did have more Lake County service, so perhaps the provision dates back to the 1970's or even before.

Alright folks, it's the Festivus airing of grievances:

 

I live in Ohio City, so I've been trying to take the bus into work more often (and even on local trips, i.e. Lucky's Market, Little Italy, etc.) and I've been doing pretty well since the middle of October, but I'm really starting to lose it over timing issues. 

 

Thus far this week, I've waited 29 minutes, 21 minutes, 34 minutes, and 19 minutes for the 26/26a on Detroit, and it's not only Tuesday - the bus is scheduled to come once every 14-16 minutes.. Is this usual? My closest stop doesn't have a shelter, so I'm definitely NOT waiting that long in the winter if this is what is typical. Is my experience unusual or typical? 

18 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Alright folks, it's the Festivus airing of grievances:

 

I live in Ohio City, so I've been trying to take the bus into work more often (and even on local trips, i.e. Lucky's Market, Little Italy, etc.) and I've been doing pretty well since the middle of October, but I'm really starting to lose it over timing issues. 

 

Thus far this week, I've waited 29 minutes, 21 minutes, 34 minutes, and 19 minutes for the 26/26a on Detroit, and it's not only Tuesday - the bus is scheduled to come once every 14-16 minutes.. Is this usual? My closest stop doesn't have a shelter, so I'm definitely NOT waiting that long in the winter if this is what is typical. Is my experience unusual or typical? 

I love off the 26 in Lakewood. My longest wait from scheduled arrival was four minutes late. But it's been a while. So maybe that is the new norm. Do you use the RTA app? The buses have gps so you can see how far away it is. Or atleast you used to be able to. 

4 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

I love off the 26 in Lakewood. My longest wait from scheduled arrival was four minutes late. But it's been a while. So maybe that is the new norm. Do you use the RTA app? The buses have gps so you can see how far away it is. Or atleast you used to be able to. 

 

I do - but today was actually my first time using the app, so I'll have to better familiarize myself with it. Thanks!

56 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Thus far this week, I've waited 29 minutes, 21 minutes, 34 minutes, and 19 minutes for the 26/26a on Detroit, and it's not only Tuesday - the bus is scheduled to come once every 14-16 minutes.. Is this usual?

1) This is why even transit advocates are frustrated with RTA.  The GPS tracking can help -- you can wait in your house instead of in the rain -- but this is also why mass transit sucks when it has to share its right of way with cars.  Buses are at the mercy of Lights & Traffic.

 

2) This is also why it sucks to be poor and dependent on transit.  I can drive to my office in 20minutes or take the bus in an hour -- and the bus schedule is unreliable so I probably have to plan for an hour and a half of travel time (most of which is a loss of time to either relax or be productive) -- each way.  If you have the means, it's hard to justify taking the bus.

 

Having buses/trains show up on time every time is really important.  I would go so far as to say that it would be more important for RTA to build in more buffer time on routes (I know, this means even longer trip times) to make sure they hit the stops at the time that they say they will rather than trying to speed up the overall route and have big question marks over when the bus is actually going to arrive at a stop.  At least then you can accurately plan when you need to get to the bus stop and when you'll arrive at your destination.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Foraker said:

1) This is why even transit advocates are frustrated with RTA.  The GPS tracking can help -- you can wait in your house instead of in the rain -- but this is also why mass transit sucks when it has to share its right of way with cars.  Buses are at the mercy of Lights & Traffic.

 

2) This is also why it sucks to be poor and dependent on transit.  I can drive to my office in 20minutes or take the bus in an hour -- and the bus schedule is unreliable so I probably have to plan for an hour and a half of travel time (most of which is a loss of time to either relax or be productive) -- each way.  If you have the means, it's hard to justify taking the bus.

 

Having buses/trains show up on time every time is really important.  I would go so far as to say that it would be more important for RTA to build in more buffer time on routes (I know, this means even longer trip times) to make sure they hit the stops at the time that they say they will rather than trying to speed up the overall route and have big question marks over when the bus is actually going to arrive at a stop.  At least then you can accurately plan when you need to get to the bus stop and when you'll arrive at your destination.

 

RTA is rider unfriendly.  Transfers, waiting for buses or trains, uncomfortable equipment, unreliability, lack of shelters, long rides and security/safety security concerns are all reasons why riders have abandoned the system in droves.  Baring something drastic and unforeseen (oil crisis, sky-high gas prices over an extended period of time), people have become comfortable with the costs of commuting.  For many, they have gotten accustomed to not using and not needing the services provided by RTA.  With that mindset firmly entrenched, to regain the trust of the public is getting increasingly unlikely.

2 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

With that mindset firmly entrenched, to regain the trust of the public is getting increasingly unlikely.

In the near term, I agree.  But there are still a lot of people in the city who don't even own a car and who depend on RTA. 

 

With better funding and some leadership, we may yet see some positive change.  It may take 20 years, but I think we will eventually see a turnaround at RTA.

41 minutes ago, Foraker said:

In the near term, I agree.  But there are still a lot of people in the city who don't even own a car and who depend on RTA. 

 

With better funding and some leadership, we may yet see some positive change.  It may take 20 years, but I think we will eventually see a turnaround at RTA.

Agree, if positive change does come, it may take decades.  With almost 20 years at the helm, Calabrese had a hand in hiring and placing his "people" in key positions.  Birdsong needs to clean house of all of the Calabrese hold-overs.  If she does have some sort of "grand vision" for RTA, will she be around long enough to get things moving or does she use RTA as a stepping stone for a better transit agency? 

 

At this time, there is little that I find compelling to see any positive changes to the system.  I know people who either currently use the system or are familiar with the revised routes.  To hear their opinions, due to the route changes they see no improvement or even a worsening of the system.  Parking rates for normal days are fairly decent and plentiful as compared to other cities.  Gas in the vicinity of $3.25 a gallon has been accepted as the new normal.  As I stated, something drastic will need to happen to alter the mindset where driving is the preferred option.

 

Right now, the majority of riders who use RTA are either the ones who have no other option or are ones who are completely dedicated towards using mass transit.  Barring something that forces commuting changes, until RTA adopts changes that make using the system a desirable option to the general public, it will be an extreme uphill battle.  Due to changes from the pandemic, there is another major change that RTA cannot overcome and that is the shift of people working from home.  

Edited November 3, 20213 yr by LifeLongClevelander

15 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Thus far this week, I've waited 29 minutes, 21 minutes, 34 minutes, and 19 minutes for the 26/26a on Detroit, and it's not only Tuesday - the bus is scheduled to come once every 14-16 minutes.. Is this usual? My closest stop doesn't have a shelter, so I'm definitely NOT waiting that long in the winter if this is what is typical. Is my experience unusual or typical? 

Very frustrating.  As others here have said here, this is what happens when buses get stuck in the same traffic as cars.  It's easy to blame RTA for that unreliability (and I'm not saying that you are), but it's a reflection of how poorly we do transportation in the U.S..  Cars get the priority in funding, planning, and design.  Planning is not done holistically.  We just build for cars and if anything at all is done for pedestrians, cycling, and public transit, it's done as a band-aid.  When a patient needs re-constructive surgery, you don't fix it with a band-aid. 

Edited November 3, 20213 yr by gildone

20 minutes ago, gildone said:

Very frustrating.  As others here have said here, this is what happens when buses get stuck in the same traffic as cars.  It's easy to blame RTA for that unreliability (and I'm not saying that you are), but it's a reflection of how poorly we do transportation in the U.S..  Cars get the priority in funding, planning, and design.  Planning is not done holistically.  We just build for cars and if anything at all is done for pedestrians, cycling, and public transit, it's done as a band-aid.  When a patient needs re-constructive surgery, you don't fix it with a band-aid. 

 

I can't help but think a light rail system from 117th to University Circle would be perfect. God knows Superior doesn't need all those lanes. 

Don't forget about the Superior Midway project. It will probably become a higher priority with Bibb as mayor.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Don't forget about the Superior Midway project. It will probably become a higher priority with Bibb as mayor.

 

Can you refresh my memory

8 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Can you refresh my memory

https://www.bikecleveland.org/midway/

20 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Alright folks, it's the Festivus airing of grievances:

 

I live in Ohio City, so I've been trying to take the bus into work more often (and even on local trips, i.e. Lucky's Market, Little Italy, etc.) and I've been doing pretty well since the middle of October, but I'm really starting to lose it over timing issues. 

 

Thus far this week, I've waited 29 minutes, 21 minutes, 34 minutes, and 19 minutes for the 26/26a on Detroit, and it's not only Tuesday - the bus is scheduled to come once every 14-16 minutes.. Is this usual? My closest stop doesn't have a shelter, so I'm definitely NOT waiting that long in the winter if this is what is typical. Is my experience unusual or typical? 

From looking at RTA's schedule, it appears that there are two construction zones that affect that route and they have been in place since June.  This is the sort of thing that supervisors should have some sort of flexibility.  If a route is going to be impacted by long term construction projects, they need to adjust service accordingly.  If delays are going to cause gaps in service, then extra equipment needs to be added.  The only thing worse for your type of situation is to have buses grouped together such as another one a couple of minutes behind.  For projects that have been going on for months, adjustments should be made or this is another reason why people will choose options other than RTA.

3 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

I can't help but think a light rail system from 117th to University Circle would be perfect. God knows Superior doesn't need all those lanes. 

 

This is along the lines of some things I've been thinking of lately, I guess now is a good time to post it.

 

As you all read this just remember what I've stated previously, I'm not a fan of busses but I am a fan of rail. I know rail cost more money to start and all that comes with it but I think if they just put their focus & money toward a downtown loop and three key lines; it would drastically increase optics, passengers, RTA income, and development in the city as a whole.

 

Now I'm just a novice when it comes to rail/transportation so these are my high-level thoughts on what I think could make a big impact, and hopefully those with more experience and contacts could give your feedback on how it could be possible(and if so, push it higher). 

 

I hope you enjoy my thoughts below and I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback..... just remember I'm a novice ;)

 

 

We've all seen this floating around the internet/Reddit/Scene and I think we'd agree it'd be great, all it's missing is a downtown loop... throw that in and dump a ton of money and we have a fantastic CLE rail system.  The problem is we don't have a ton of money and this is a huge lift that would take forever, so that's why I'm proposing the four steps below.

 

 

Step 1: Add the downtown loop @Boomerang_Brian I believe proposed.

Step 2: Add a rail line down Detroit that connects to the Wes Blvd-Cuddell station.

In regards to what style, my preference is always Subway(I know it's the most money), then Elevated Train and last Streetcar(I just think the SC style takes up the most space). Which way is best can be discussed.

 

 

Step 3: Last be certainly not least. Add a rail line that goes down Pearl then veers down Ridge and either ends at ParmaTown or jogs over and dead ends at Tri-C-West.

This line will take you to Metro, the Zoo, BrookPark Rd, ParmaTown and possibly Tri-C-West. That's a pretty substantial list of places, as well as a ton of major neighborhoods with a lot of people. I think this line would be major!!!

(I also threw that Pink line on there last minute, its not a part of my Major 4 Step list that would be super impactful. I just figured you could have a Rail Line go down BrookPark Rd from the "BrookPark Station" over by the Ford Plant/Engle Road to the new Pearl rail line.  There's already those train tracks for the railroad, maybe something could be worked out to use it as well... or maybe build along side of it).

 

As always, In regards to what style for the Pearl/Ridge line, my preference is always Subway, then Elevated Train and last Streetcar.

 

Step 4: Add a rail line down either Euclid(orange) or Chester(pink) that connects & dead-ends into the Cedar-University station.

In regards to what style, again my preference is always Subway, then Elevated Train and last Streetcar. With Euclid I think you could do a unique street car in place of the divider already there for the "HealthLine" for most of the line, then maybe go to Elevated closer to UC. Or maybe put the Elevated Track(bridge?) down Euclid in that middle divider area and it wont be over the sidewalks or close to the buildings.  I think whatever is decided as best could be done on Chester or Euclid, copy-paste, they're extremely similar streets.

Again, which way is best can be discussed.

 

Hopefully you enjoyed reading this and I made some sense in my explanation(I don't know all the terminology), I know nothing's easy but these are some changes that could make a huge impact! 

That was a lot, so thanks for reading.

 

I LOVE Cleveland and want to see it do well and grow, so my mind is always going thinking of things to accomplish both.

13 minutes ago, NR said:

 

This is along the lines of some things I've been thinking of lately, I guess now is a good time to post it.

 

As you all read this just remember what I've stated previously, I'm not a fan of busses but I am a fan of rail. I know rail cost more money to start and all that comes with it but I think if they just put their focus & money toward a downtown loop and three key lines; it would drastically increase optics, passengers, RTA income, and development in the city as a whole.

 

Now I'm just a novice when it comes to rail/transportation so these are my high-level thoughts on what I think could make a big impact, and hopefully those with more experience and contacts could give your feedback on how it could be possible(and if so, push it higher). 

 

I hope you enjoy my thoughts below and I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback..... just remember I'm a novice ;)

 

 

We've all seen this floating around the internet/Reddit/Scene and I think we'd agree it'd be great, all it's missing is a downtown loop... throw that in and dump a ton of money and we have a fantastic CLE rail system.  The problem is we don't have a ton of money and this is a huge lift that would take forever, so that's why I'm proposing the four steps below.

 

 

Step 1: Add the downtown loop @Boomerang_Brian I believe proposed.

Step 2: Add a rail line down Detroit that connects to the Wes Blvd-Cuddell station.

In regards to what style, my preference is always Subway(I know it's the most money), then Elevated Train and last Streetcar(I just think the SC style takes up the most space). Which way is best can be discussed.

 

 

Step 3: Last be certainly not least. Add a rail line that goes down Pearl then veers down Ridge and either ends at ParmaTown or jogs over and dead ends at Tri-C-West.

This line will take you to Metro, the Zoo, BrookPark Rd, ParmaTown and possibly Tri-C-West. That's a pretty substantial list of places, as well as a ton of major neighborhoods with a lot of people. I think this line would be major!!!

(I also threw that Pink line on there last minute, its not a part of my Major 4 Step list that would be super impactful. I just figured you could have a Rail Line go down BrookPark Rd from the "BrookPark Station" over by the Ford Plant/Engle Road to the new Pearl rail line.  There's already those train tracks for the railroad, maybe something could be worked out to use it as well... or maybe build along side of it).

 

As always, In regards to what style for the Pearl/Ridge line, my preference is always Subway, then Elevated Train and last Streetcar.

 

Step 4: Add a rail line down either Euclid(orange) or Chester(pink) that connects & dead-ends into the Cedar-University station.

In regards to what style, again my preference is always Subway, then Elevated Train and last Streetcar. With Euclid I think you could do a unique street car in place of the divider already there for the "HealthLine" for most of the line, then maybe go to Elevated closer to UC. Or maybe put the Elevated Track(bridge?) down Euclid in that middle divider area and it wont be over the sidewalks or close to the buildings.  I think whatever is decided as best could be done on Chester or Euclid, copy-paste, they're extremely similar streets.

Again, which way is best can be discussed.

 

Hopefully you enjoyed reading this and I made some sense in my explanation(I don't know all the terminology), I know nothing's easy but these are some changes that could make a huge impact! 

That was a lot, so thanks for reading.

 

I LOVE Cleveland and want to see it do well and grow, so my mind is always going thinking of things to accomplish both.

 

Perhaps this discussion should take place here:  

 

3 hours ago, NR said:

This is along the lines of some things I've been thinking of lately, I guess now is a good time to post it.

 

As you all read this just remember what I've stated previously, I'm not a fan of busses but I am a fan of rail. I know rail cost more money to start and all that comes with it but I think if they just put their focus & money toward a downtown loop and three key lines; it would drastically increase optics, passengers, RTA income, and development in the city as a whole.

 

Now I'm just a novice when it comes to rail/transportation so these are my high-level thoughts on what I think could make a big impact, and hopefully those with more experience and contacts could give your feedback on how it could be possible(and if so, push it higher). 

of things to accomplish both.

Great proposal for lines.  Unfortunately, this will cost a tremendous amount of money to implement (and I am strongly in favor of rail expansion).  For this to happen, if the money for this type of magnitude of rail system expansion is to be made available, I am strongly of the belief that those behind allocating/legislating the award(s) will look at the current system's patronage.  It will be a much more difficult sell to hand out the necessary money for a system in a significant rider decline.  This is a basis for my position on RTA trying to lure more riders to the system instead of alienating them away. 

19 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

Great proposal for lines.  Unfortunately, this will cost a tremendous amount of money to implement (and I am strongly in favor of rail expansion).  For this to happen, if the money for this type of magnitude of rail system expansion is to be made available, I am strongly of the belief that those behind allocating/legislating the award(s) will look at the current system's patronage.  It will be a much more difficult sell to hand out the necessary money for a system in a significant rider decline.  This is a basis for my position on RTA trying to lure more riders to the system instead of alienating them away. 

 

Realistically, could we use $50million of the Federal money to a small, light rail expansion (hypothetically let's say it went from W 65th to Playhouse Square)

2 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Realistically, could we use $50million of the Federal money to a small, light rail expansion (hypothetically let's say it went from W 65th to Playhouse Square)

RTA is dealing with the lack of foresight in seeking Federal money going back for years.  In 2009-2010, they should have been seeking money for rail vehicle replacement then.  The replacement vehicles would have been in service by 2015 and RTA wouldn't be saddled with trying to keep dwindling numbers of obsolete rail cars in service now.  It just adds to the Federal money they need just to keep the system operational, let alone capital system expansions.  Realistically, that $50 million would be more like $500 million at least to do the expansion you propose.

Just now, LifeLongClevelander said:

RTA is dealing with the lack of foresight in seeking Federal money going back for years.  In 2009-2010, they should have been seeking money for rail vehicle replacement then.  The replacement vehicles would have been in service by 2015 and RTA wouldn't be saddled with trying to keep dwindling numbers of obsolete rail cars in service now.  It just adds to the Federal money they need just to keep the system operational, let alone capital system expansions.  Realistically, that $50 million would be more like $500 million at least to do the expansion you propose.

 

Okay - I was talking more about the $500 million already allocated to Cleveland from the pandemic, though

37 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Okay - I was talking more about the $500 million already allocated to Cleveland from the pandemic, though

 

How much of the pandemic bonus-money can be spent on expanding transit though? I thought there were some pretty significant strings tied to how that money could be spent.

Edited November 4, 20213 yr by Foraker

57 minutes ago, Foraker said:

 

How much of the pandemic bonus-money can be spent on expanding transit though? I thought there were some pretty significant strings tied to how that money could be spent.

 

That's why you get good lawyers 😉

59 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

That's why you get good lawyers 😉

I feel so much better knowing that you're on the job.  (I want a downtown loop!)

1 hour ago, Foraker said:

 

How much of the pandemic bonus-money can be spent on expanding transit though? I thought there were some pretty significant strings tied to how that money could be spent.

 

58 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

That's why you get good lawyers 😉

Realistically, how much money will Cleveland be willing to pass on to RTA?  The city has quite a few needs to address of its own (EMS Rescue Squads, staffing, patrol cars--they still have Crown Victorias in service that are at least 10 years old, etc...).  The city will also probably be losing income tax revenue, either by the challenges made by people who have been working from home due to the pandemic or post-pandemic by people who will continue to work from home.

2 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

 

Realistically, how much money will Cleveland be willing to pass on to RTA?  The city has quite a few needs to address of its own (EMS Rescue Squads, staffing, patrol cars--they still have Crown Victorias in service that are at least 10 years old, etc...).  The city will also probably be losing income tax revenue, either by the challenges made by people who have been working from home due to the pandemic or post-pandemic by people who will continue to work from home.

Im amazed that half our police vehicle work. Even more amazed that almost two decade old ambulances still work. 

almost every cop car I see at night has one of its headlights out

47 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

 

Realistically, how much money will Cleveland be willing to pass on to RTA?  The city has quite a few needs to address of its own (EMS Rescue Squads, staffing, patrol cars--they still have Crown Victorias in service that are at least 10 years old, etc...).  The city will also probably be losing income tax revenue, either by the challenges made by people who have been working from home due to the pandemic or post-pandemic by people who will continue to work from home.

 

GCRTA received its own CARES Act funding. A couple hundred million IIRC.

7 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

GCRTA received its own CARES Act funding. A couple hundred million IIRC.

Is Birdsong back yet?

2 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

 

Realistically, how much money will Cleveland be willing to pass on to RTA? 

Probably none -- as you noted, they have too many other needs.  Maybe if the county receives funding some of that could go to RTA, but I wouldn't count on it.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

GCRTA received its own CARES Act funding. A couple hundred million IIRC.

I would still like to see a downtown loop as a priority to increase the range of destinations near rail.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

GCRTA received its own CARES Act funding. A couple hundred million IIRC.

RTA's money was generally intended for use to replace lost revenues and provide money for various protection efforts.  As RTA received a few hundred million of their own, the city and county are not going to give up part of their funding.  The city has its needs and so does the county. 

3 hours ago, Foraker said:

I would still like to see a downtown loop as a priority to increase the range of destinations near rail.

 

I think one light rail running near west, and one light rail running near east, both from downtown, would do absolute wonders for connectivity

13 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I think one light rail running near west, and one light rail running near east, both from downtown, would do absolute wonders for connectivity

When RTA replaces their current fleet of heavy rail and light rail vehicles, it should be of one common vehicle that can serve both high and low platforms (as what is hopefully going to be part of specifications for the soon to be re-bidding process).  Any system expansion would operate with that new fleet and any future add-ons.

4 hours ago, Foraker said:

Probably none -- as you noted, they have too many other needs.  Maybe if the county receives funding some of that could go to RTA, but I wouldn't count on it.

I would still like to see a downtown loop as a priority to increase the range of destinations near rail.

 

GCRTA still has a large, unfunded state-of-good-repair backlog of about $300+ million. And there's still a desire to keep fares from rising or even reduce them a little, plus restoring many of the bus service cuts that were made starting in 2008. A downtown loop might be funded by tax increment financing to leverage a federal grant. But RTA doubts its ability of securing any federal money for any rail expansion, especially with the city's population well below 500,000, Cleveland densities falling and downtown commuting collapsing. At least that's what they told All Aboard Ohio. Bibb and Ronayne (if he becomes county executive) might make them at least study it.

13 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

I think one light rail running near west, and one light rail running near east, both from downtown, would do absolute wonders for connectivity

 

12 hours ago, KJP said:

 

GCRTA still has a large, unfunded state-of-good-repair backlog of about $300+ million. And there's still a desire to keep fares from rising or even reduce them a little, plus restoring many of the bus service cuts that were made starting in 2008. A downtown loop might be funded by tax increment financing to leverage a federal grant. But RTA doubts its ability of securing any federal money for any rail expansion, especially with the city's population well below 500,000, Cleveland densities falling and downtown commuting collapsing. At least that's what they told All Aboard Ohio. Bibb and Ronayne (if he becomes county executive) might make them at least study it.

Yes, let's get started on the planning.  It's going to take years. 

 

No one working at Tri-C or CSU is going to take the Rapid to Tower City.  These and other large workplaces near downtown are too far from a rail station and we have an underused Waterfront Line -- it just makes so much sense and would greatly increase the value of the rail system if it reached more workplaces. 

I’m very curious if there are provision in the infrastructure bill (or BBB, but who knows where that will end up) that will help RTA get its replacement rail cars. RTA really needs to get moving on their RFP/RFQ. I know @LifeLongClevelander has advocated for cars that can serve different level platforms, but @KJP has me convinced that our best bet is to rip the bandaid off and go all low platforms. Probably adds cost initially, but it seems much more likely that we’d get a standard, off-the-shelf model and therefore minimize many potential challenges. 

49 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

I’m very curious if there are provision in the infrastructure bill (or BBB, but who knows where that will end up) that will help RTA get its replacement rail cars. RTA really needs to get moving on their RFP/RFQ. I know @LibertyBlvdhas advocated for cars that can serve different level platforms, but @KJP has me convinced that our best bet is to rip the bandaid off and go all low platforms. Probably adds cost initially, but it seems much more likely that we’d get a standard, off-the-shelf model and therefore minimize many potential challenges. 

 

Yes, more funding is authorized through the urban formula transit grants. But it's only an authorization (ie a funding ceiling). Congress still has to pass annual appropriations.

6 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

I’m very curious if there are provision in the infrastructure bill (or BBB, but who knows where that will end up) that will help RTA get its replacement rail cars. RTA really needs to get moving on their RFP/RFQ. I know @LifeLongClevelander has advocated for cars that can serve different level platforms, but @KJP has me convinced that our best bet is to rip the bandaid off and go all low platforms. Probably adds cost initially, but it seems much more likely that we’d get a standard, off-the-shelf model and therefore minimize many potential challenges. 

Current off-the-shelf in production LRV's already are commonly available that serve both high and low platforms.  Being able to serve high platforms meets one extremely critical element of any new rail vehicle:  conforming to meet Americans With Disability Act requirements.  Aside from the cable cars in San Francisco and the St. Charles green streetcars in New Orleans, the only current newer light rail vehicles that have been grandfathered into being able to operate without meeting those requirements are the Kawasaki LRV's that operate on the 5 subway-surface streetcar lines on SEPTA in Philadelphia and the ones on SEPTA's 2 suburban former Red Arrow Lines outside of Philadelphia.  Boston's Type 7 Kinki Sharyo LRV's are not ADA-compliant, but they are no longer operated as single cars or trains comprised of just that group.  They now operate in trains with other ADA-compliant LRV's.

 

For a system like RTA that always is calling for more money, preserving the current high platform Red Line stations that many have recently been extensively and expensively rebuilt, preserving this aspect ends up in not having that money go to waste.  Raising tracks is a far easier and less expensive option should different floor/station heights be an issue.

On 11/5/2021 at 10:49 AM, Foraker said:

 

Yes, let's get started on the planning.  It's going to take years. 

 

No one working at Tri-C or CSU is going to take the Rapid to Tower City.  These and other large workplaces near downtown are too far from a rail station and we have an underused Waterfront Line -- it just makes so much sense and would greatly increase the value of the rail system if it reached more workplaces. 

 

There was a plan somewhere I saw recently that rerouted the Red Line between Tower City and E 34 Street to run through more of Downtown so that it would serve E. 9 St, CSU and Tri-C. It was a very simple yet very effective rerouting. Not sure if its happening or what, but I hope so.

On 11/7/2021 at 8:55 PM, Pugu said:

 

There was a plan somewhere I saw recently that rerouted the Red Line between Tower City and E 34 Street to run through more of Downtown so that it would serve E. 9 St, CSU and Tri-C. It was a very simple yet very effective rerouting. Not sure if its happening or what, but I hope so.

 

Originally, it was a second-phase option for the downtown subway plan of the 1940s and 50s. And it was one of the options of the Dual Hub Corridor plan of the 1980s and early 1990s. It hasn't been considered by GCRTA since although a friend of mine at The Center for Cleveland recently tried to revive it as a way to use CARES Act funds. The idea would require twice as much CARES Act funding as what the city received and GCRTA would never support it, which of course they didn't.

The Landscape podcast from Crain’s just interviewed India Birdsong. I look forward to checking it out:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-landscape/id1562190141?i=1000541239466
(Sorry for Apple podcast link - Google search for alt podcast platforms)

3 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

The Landscape podcast from Crain’s just interviewed India Birdsong. I look forward to checking it out:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-landscape/id1562190141?i=1000541239466
(Sorry for Apple podcast link - Google search for alt podcast platforms)

Unfortunately, not a very in-depth interview. 

 

Considers herself a planner. Recognizes that aging equipment is a problem.  Says RTA needs to "connect the community," not just get people to jobs.  Frequency is important.  Needs $40m to eliminate fares, needs more reliable source of funding before that can happen.  Said "we just need to improve the quality of the service" to increase ridership, but didn't say how RTA is going to get there other than generic "funding, ingenuity, really good planning."

So I think location of current stations, their condition and a lack of car traffic is the issue for RTA right now. So I recently got a job downtown on Public Square after having a job out in Beachwood for almost 2 years. Immediately I said “I’m going to Park and Ride at Windermere and catch the train to work.” As I thought about it I realized, “That’s actually not a convince to me and I’m only taking the train due to me being a transit advocate.”

 

I live in Grenville, Superior station is 5 minutes or so down the road from me but lacks true security to park my car at so my next option is Windermere Station. That is about 10 minutes away from me and it takes me 17 minutes to get Downtown, essentially a 30 minute trip to work (if the train is there when I arrive at the station.) If I drive straight down Superior Avenue it is 14 minutes to get to work. I would be doubling my commute just to say I take the train to work. 

 

If the Superior Road station was in better condition and offered a more comfortable feeling when it comes to parking for 8+ hours I could justify it. The only argument one could offer for taking the train (unless you live walking distance away) is the savings in gas, but that argument goes out the window once gas prices fall. Even if we had heavier traffic I feel people would go out of their way to take trains but every major street is wide open for people to make it downtown instantaneously. 

Is free parking included with your job then?