It's really great to hear about the new policy on bikes on the Rapid, JMasek.  I'm confused a little by one part, though.  Why aren't bikes allowed on escalators? Is this a safety issue?  Is that a new rule?  Are they prohibited on either stairs or elevators as well?  I would think bikes would be safer on an escalator than on a set of stairs, where someone is more likely to trip with the bike.  Making someone take their bike up a heavy flight of stairs seems to reduce the bicycle friendliness of the system.

In addition, is the upturn in rail merely due to some larger, societal preference for rail over buses (for a litany of reasons, most notably lack of traffic stops and less hampered by snow)?  Are surveys being contemplated as to "why" people are choosing rail over buses?

Regarding that 40 percent number, without knowing more about it, I can't comment on it. What year is he basing that on? What is a "major transit sytem"? How are the figures being computer? There are a number of ways to look at ridership. The important thing is: We are working to continue to improve the number.

nyc, can you quote an authoritative source for that 40% number? I only ask because in my prior dealings with NFTA (Buffalo, NY), anything above 20-25% was considered spectacular, and I can't fathom that things would have changed so drastically in 2-3 years

 

yes, elliot sander, the head of mta, said that.

 

 

Thank you... however, it sounds like a reporter may have taken some liberties with Mr Sander's statements. What he actually said in February of this year, according to the transcript located at http://www.mta.info/mta/news/public/testimony070215.htm, was that "In 2007, MTA expects to generate $5.4 billion, or 60%, of its total $9.2 billion in operating revenues primarily from fares and tolls." (emphasis mine). Furthermore, he acknowledged this as "a phenomenally high farebox return, significantly higher than any other system in the country.".

 

Also, it appears Mr. Sander's statements may have been a bit "optimistic". Looking at the financials for the first six months of 2007, located at http://www.mta.info/mta/budget/pdf/2007_first_half_consolidated_financial.pdf, the total fares & tolls revenue was $2.8 billion versus expenses of $5.4 billion, or 52% (in round figures). Subtracting out toll revenue, for which Cleveland has no comparable component, knocks it down to about 41% -- still a phenomenal number, without a doubt, but NYC's economy of scale cannot be discounted in this regard.

 

There's more to be discussed here, but I have work to do :-). I'm not knocking what you're saying, mrnyc, just enjoying the discourse...

Why aren't bikes allowed on escalators? Is this a safety issue?  Is that a new rule?  Are they prohibited on either stairs or elevators as well? 

 

The rules, as posted on our Web site, state: "Bicycles are not allowed on the escalators at any station. Cyclists must use stairs and elevators only."

 

These are not new rules. This is a safety issue. As elevators are added to more RTA stations, I am sure they will become the preferred method.

 

Rail stations were designed and built for passengers. Bikes are a new component. Everyone must be kept safe, and everyone must co-exist. These rules are designed to ensure that. Thanks.

Are surveys being contemplated as to "why" people are choosing rail over buses?

 

Past surveys have shown that some people prefer bus and strongly dislike rail, and others are just the opposite. In the past few years, much of RTA's ridership growth has come from "choice" customers -- those who could drive if they wanted to. They are using the Park-N-Ride lots more, and rail more. Both these options allow you to drive your car as least part of the way to work, and then go straight downtown. Of course, the Tribe had a great month, too, and a percentage of those fans always take RTA.

JetDog, thanks for doing the legwork.

Can you explain the security cameras? Who is watching them?

Has RTA noticed a difference in crime? Who decides where they go?

Why does the LRT platform at E.55th have them and not the HRT Platform? How many are in use? Locations?

Full build out of the system?

Tied into the Trolley (E&B-Line) camera system?

 

SMILE! You're on transit camera.

 

Most cameras in facilities and vehicles were purchased by Transit Police with Homeland Security grants. In facilities, camera locations are not made public. In vehicles, passengers are notified by a sign that they are being recorded. That should deter criminals acts by logical people. It might not affect the illogical ones.

 

All trolleys and all new Silver Line vehicles will have cameras. All new buses, starting with the 45 NABIs that arrived earlier this year, will be equipped. It is too expensive to retro-fit the system on a used bus. The entire fleet should be camera-equipped within 10-12 years.

 

A camera system on rail cars should be operational next year.

 

Transit Police monitor cameras in key locations from a central point. All cameras record action 24/7, so if there is a crime at a given location or vehicle, we can pull the tape and review it for clues.

 

There are several press releases on these cameras on our Web site.

The always-reputable Wikipedia has an article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio that shows figures for some systems around the world.  The figures ARE cited with sources, though most of them are old.

Are surveys being contemplated as to "why" people are choosing rail over buses?

 

Past surveys have shown that some people prefer bus and strongly dislike rail ...

 

I didn't know RTA had contracted with the Wendell Cox Consultancy to conduct surveys. ;)

Japanese transit is a money-maker ... that's pretty cool.

The always-reputable Wikipedia has an article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio that shows figures for some systems around the world.  The figures ARE cited with sources, though most of them are old.

 

Matches, I'm going to assume there was some amount of sarcasm in the "always-reputable Wikipedia" description... anywho, that was a wiki reference to a findarticles search result summarizing a Railway Age article describing a Brookings Institution study... just what comes after "tertiary", anyway? :-) I'll try to chase it back to the ultimate source (beyond Brookings, although I respect their research tremendously), which will more than likely be APTA documentation...

 

cripes, I feel like I'm back in college...

great rides both ways on the Red Line yesterday to-from the new W. 117th Street station.  Lots of riders during the evening rush hour.  I saw three packed trains come into the station within a 10-minute period while I waited for my ride to pick me up.  It's such a nice sight to see all those commuters coming out of the station!

 

I ran into the same problem during the day, though, where all I had on me was $2.  I was able to pay my morning fare, but had to get money from an ATM and break a $20 bill in order to pay my way home.  I even stopped at CWRU on my way to work to see if they sold passes.  At the student center, they're selling 7-day unlimiteds - cash only.  [sigh]  As far as I can tell, there's nowhere walking distance to University Circle where I can buy a 5-ride card or use my credit card to make that purchase.  It'd be nice if there were more options in places like U.C. and more logically, at the stations!  I guess I'll just have to wait.

 

http://www.riderta.com/ro_downtown-locationsbycity.asp

Perhaps that'd be something for the University Circle Visitor Center, Map Boy?

I hope that the recent rate increase for the taxi service at Hopkins will be a BIG push for RTA to really market the TRAINS (easier phrase than rapid) to downtown throughout the airport for out-of- town travellers.  The announcements have gotten better...but more visible signage or kiosks (which include train destinations) throughout the airport may help ridership even more.

 

Our relationship with Hopkins has been growing in recent years. We will continue to look for ways to increase ridership there. I will pass along your ideas. Many thanks.

 

Jerry, this is a pretty minor recomendation:  the audio announcement in the Airport is great, announcing the "Rapid Transit Train to Downtown" as one of the official transportation options.  As University Circle continues to grow as a destination, does it make sense for the audio message to describe the rapid as the "Rapid Transit Train to Downtown and University Circle" ?  A lot of visitors probably don't even know their destination is in "University Circle", so maybe it won't be so helpful, but maybe worth a thought, especially as taxi fares rise.

Perhaps that'd be something for the University Circle Visitor Center, Map Boy?

sounds like a good idea to me!

great rides both ways on the Red Line yesterday to-from the new W. 117th Street station.  Lots of riders during the evening rush hour.  I saw three packed trains come into the station within a 10-minute period while I waited for my ride to pick me up.  It's such a nice sight to see all those commuters coming out of the station!

 

I ran into the same problem during the day, though, where all I had on me was $2.  I was able to pay my morning fare, but had to get money from an ATM and break a $20 bill in order to pay my way home.  I even stopped at CWRU on my way to work to see if they sold passes.  At the student center, they're selling 7-day unlimiteds - cash only.  [sigh]  As far as I can tell, there's nowhere walking distance to University Circle where I can buy a 5-ride card or use my credit card to make that purchase.  It'd be nice if there were more options in places like U.C. and more logically, at the stations!  I guess I'll just have to wait.

 

http://www.riderta.com/ro_downtown-locationsbycity.asp

 

I sent this along to someone who has more authority than I do -- which is just about everyone in the building. Thank you for your comment.

We need to get this guy to join All Aboard Ohio, if he hasn't already!!

and thank you, Jerry, for your attention to our many many comments!  We all want the best for/from our GCRTA!

 

Following up on that story, I ended up going to a vendor near my house that was listed on the page I posted earlier (Convenient Food Mart on Detroit).  They said they've never sold 5-ride farecards... only monthly and weeklies.  The search continues!

Of course, there's always.... http://www.shoprta.com/products/5br.html/ ;-)

you expect me to pay a shipping surcharge?!

 

Honestly, it never occurred to me to buy them online.  Still, my issue rings true... you shouldn't have to go online to buy them.  They should be available in the stations.

There is no shipping surcharge, but of course you have to wait.  What would be cool is if they could be printed out.  Maybe they couldn't be used in the reader machines, but they could be shown to the fair collector.

^Phil Thomas is awesome; we need more clear-vision folks like him.  His letter should also be posted on the Jerry Masek thread.  :clap:

There is no shipping surcharge, but of course you have to wait.  What would be cool is if they could be printed out.  Maybe they couldn't be used in the reader machines, but they could be shown to the fair collector.

 

actually, there is a $1 shipping/handling fee, so it makes the most sense to go online if you're purchasing a higher-priced item, such as a monthly pass, or a quantity of lower-priced items, since the shipping cost is the same for 1 five-trip farecard or 20... there is, of course, the convenience factor, which plays a lot more into the decision when there's 12+ inches of snow on the ground...

I hate to be a complainer, but Jerry can you suggest to someone in charge of the bus drivers that they should not proceed into intersections with stopped traffic or just floor it at red lights. This is not safe, and when they get stuck in intersections, everything gets jacked up.

Ccan you suggest to someone in charge of the bus drivers that they should not proceed into intersections with stopped traffic or just floor it at red lights. This is not safe, and when they get stuck in intersections, everything gets jacked up.

 

I feel your pain. I frequently walk around downtown and have complained about specific instances. Several times, I had a digital camera with me, and turned in an official complaint with an image. If you see this happening, please get the specifics (at the very least, the day, time and four-digit vehicle number). That will help us ID the operator in question. Thanks.

RTA now owns 50 "next connect" signs. 30 of them have already been installed at rail stations and transit centers. Many of the other 20 will be installed along the Euclid Corridor. You can see one in operation at East 40th Street Station.

 

On Oct. 16, the RTA Board approved the purchase of 63 more signs for $368,000. They will arrive early next year. You will see them at rail stations, transit centers, and along Euclid Avenue.

 

The signs from Siemens CDO announce the next scheduled departurne, as well as the present time. 80 percent of the cost was paid with federal funds.

I hate to be a complainer, but Jerry can you suggest to someone in charge of the bus drivers that they should not proceed into intersections with stopped traffic or just floor it at red lights. This is not safe, and when they get stuck in intersections, everything gets jacked up.

 

In RTA's defense, this problem seems to be widespread in Cleveland amongst ALL drivers, not just buses (although a bus obviously takes up more room). It is one of the major problems resulting from daytime Indians games that let out at rush hour (not that we have THAT to worry about again until next season, darn it... but I digress).

 

Oh, how I long for an enforced implementation of NYC's "don't block the box" campaign (the "box", for the uninformed, being the quadrangle formed by the crosswalks/stoplines at a given intersection -- being caught in an intersection in midtown Manhattan will get your butt handed to you in a major fashion).

 

Simply put, if you can't get out, don't go in (I know, it sounds like a strategy for engaging in a land war in Southeast Asia or the Middle East, but it makes sense :-) ). Jerry is obviously spot-on -- if you lodge an official complaint, especially with visual evidence, it will be followed up on.

There is no shipping surcharge, but of course you have to wait.  What would be cool is if they could be printed out.  Maybe they couldn't be used in the reader machines, but they could be shown to the fair collector.

 

actually, there is a $1 shipping/handling fee, so it makes the most sense to go online if you're purchasing a higher-priced item, such as a monthly pass, or a quantity of lower-priced items, since the shipping cost is the same for 1 five-trip farecard or 20... there is, of course, the convenience factor, which plays a lot more into the decision when there's 12+ inches of snow on the ground...

 

Oops, I didn't see that.  I went through to the order form page to check it out, but I guess it comes in at some point after entering in credit card data and proceeding.

If you see this happening, please get the specifics (at the very least, the day, time and four-digit vehicle number). That will help us ID the operator in question. Thanks.

 

Does this work for the Train as well?  What information should be note when on a train? 

If you see this happening, please get the specifics (at the very least, the day, time and four-digit vehicle number). That will help us ID the operator in question. Thanks.

 

Does this work for the Train as well?  What information should be note when on a train? 

 

Best examples:

 

BUS: 4:15 p.m. Monday, Oct. 1, coach #2333 WB on Euclid at E. 40, coach blocked intersection.

 

RAIL: 5:15 p.m. Friday, Oct. 5, Red Line car #333 WB, left 5 people standing on the Puritas platform.

 

It's always good to get as much info as possible. The supervisor who will wind up talking to the operator did not see the incident. You did. We appreciate your help.

If you see this happening, please get the specifics (at the very least, the day, time and four-digit vehicle number). That will help us ID the operator in question. Thanks.

 

Does this work for the Train as well?  What information should be note when on a train? 

 

Best examples:

 

BUS: 4:15 p.m. Monday, Oct. 1, coach #2333 WB on Euclid at E. 40, coach blocked intersection.

 

RAIL: 5:15 p.m. Friday, Oct. 5, Red Line car #333 WB, left 5 people standing on the Puritas platform.

 

It's always good to get as much info as possible. The supervisor who will wind up talking to the operator did not see the incident. You did. We appreciate your help.

 

Thanks!!!!

The American Public Transportation Association (APTA) recently created a second Web site devoted strictly to helping the public find out more about transit. You may want to check it out.

 

APTA's main Web site continues to be

www.apta.com

 

The new Web site is

www.publictransportation.org

The American Public Transportation Association (APTA) recently created a second Web site devoted strictly to helping the public find out more about transit. You may want to check it out.

 

APTA's main Web site continues to be

www.apta.com

 

The new Web site is

www.publictransportation.org

I still don't understand why the Rapid can't run later on weekends.  I guarantee, at the very least, a lot more Eastsiders would go clubbing on weekends if they had a way back (no one wants to drive)

I just discovered this interesting study on the demographics of transit riders nationally. I think you'll like it.

 

http://www.apta.com/government_affairs/policy/documents/transit_passenger_characteristics_07.pdf

...Why the Rapid can't run later on weekends. A lot more Eastsiders would go clubbing on weekends if they had a way back (no one wants to drive)

 

I understand your viewpoint. As it is right now, the last few light-rail trips each evening have very low ridership. RTA does not believe there is enough potential ridership to support late-night service. We certainly could not take any resources away work-related rush-hour trips. from And right now, there is no money in a super-tight budget for "test runs." I do not see anything changing in the near future.

 

Please, don't shoot the messenger.

...Why the Rapid can't run later on weekends. A lot more Eastsiders would go clubbing on weekends if they had a way back (no one wants to drive)

 

I understand your viewpoint. As it is right now, the last few light-rail trips each evening have very low ridership. RTA does not believe there is enough potential ridership to support late-night service. We certainly could not take any resources away work-related rush-hour trips. from And right now, there is no money in a super-tight budget for "test runs." I do not see anything changing in the near future.

 

Please, don't shoot the messenger.

 

Jerry,

 

How about a poll using the major media outlets [PD, CBS, NBC, Fox, Crains & the Sun Papers].  You know saying something to the affect that RTA would like to evaluate (rider report card) or get ideas on the system from current riders now that its been rated No. 1.

 

– Increase awareness and drive people to the Website

– You can use that to get folks to sign up for Citizens Advisory Board

– Specifically ask if the later rail service was offered would people use it and place a range on it it.

 

 

You might already be doing this and I haven't been paying attention, but its no/low cost and easy!

<<How about a poll using the major media outlets [PD, CBS, NBC, Fox, Crains & the Sun Papers]...Specifically ask if the later rail service was offered would people use it and place a range on it it.>>

 

I will pass this along. Please know there is a vast difference between what people say and what they actually do. Many times, when RTA has a public hearing to cut service on a route, the room will be full, and person after person will come to the mic and tell us not to cut service. After questioning, you find out that only 1-2 people in the room actually use the service, the others are just opposed to the cuts. As one RTA official noted, "If everyone in this room rode the #999, we would not be talking about cutting the service."

^yeah, just like me saying I would so use late night Green Line Service, but In actuality I might do it once a month at most.

Makes sense. I wonder what it would take for most Clevelanders to switch to mass transit on a regular basis?

Makes sense. I wonder what it would take for most Clevelanders to switch to mass transit on a regular basis?

 

5 dollars a gallon of gas.

Honestly, I still think people would fight tooth and nail, even if it did go that high. Because that's how ridiculous people are. They need to be comfortable, and they hate the thought of those comfort zones being interrupted by sharing commutes with other people. What a horrible thing.

 

That's why we don't already have more people using mass transit now. It's the same reason people shun urban environments for the suburbs. It all goes back to comfort zones. And maybe fear?

Makes sense. I wonder what it would take for most Clevelanders to switch to mass transit on a regular basis?

 

5 dollars a gallon of gas.

 

and/or parking downtown above $10 a day.

Honestly, I still think people would fight tooth and nail, even if it did go that high. Because that's how ridiculous people are. They need to be comfortable, and they hate the thought of those comfort zones being interrupted by sharing commutes with other people. What a horrible thing.

 

 

no, the first thing people will do is complain to their Politicos about gouging and the taxes. instead of actually changing their lifestyle (see also building a home next to an existing freeway re: noise)

 

But this discussion is neither hear nor there, Peak Oil for yous!

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2706.0

Jerry,

 

  I understand that ridership is low during the late night/last trains out, but don't forget, these trains are stoppong BEFORE bars and such close on the weekends...how can RTA guage the ridership by midnight crowds?  If RTA were to promote DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE...RIDE THE TRAIN HOME...OR try a "why park downtown, when you can park and ride the train" campaign and then actually take a trail run at LATE NIGHT trains on the weekends, RTA might be surprised with the results.  I know ther have been MANY times I have taken a cab when I would have much rather taken the train, but unfortunately RTA locks the doors BEFORE the bars close....

I regularly take the Rapid downtown to go to the bars, then take a cab home.  I would love being able to take the train home late and get a cab from the end of the line, therefore cutting the fare in half.

i think some late night fri-sat service between memorial day and labor day makes sense, especially if RTA can get a sponsor for this late night service.  Adding 2 hours of trains, maybe at half hour headways should be possible and not that expensive.

 

that being said, i don't see RTA voluntarily reinstating this service unless the community, MADD, some other partners come forward with $$$ to cover the added costs.  i know that ridership was low on the old service, which was one of the reasons it was cut in the first place.  RTA doesn't seem to be cutting service on routes that have solid ridership numbers.

 

so, although the logic of running late night service makes some sense, historically, it wasn't used as a substitute for driving/cabs by "enough" people to make sense within the RTA priority scheme.  that's why a sponsor who cared about the cause or the service could probably make it happen again, even if only 20 people rode the trains.

 

 

that being said, i don't see RTA voluntarily reinstating this service unless the community, MADD, some other partners come forward with $$$ to cover the added costs.  i know that ridership was low on the old service, which was one of the reasons it was cut in the first place. RTA doesn't seem to be cutting service on routes that have solid ridership numbers.

 

I would like to think that RTA doesn't cut any routes with solid ridership

Makes sense. I wonder what it would take for most Clevelanders to switch to mass transit on a regular basis?

 

This is from an article posted at the "what other states are doing with rail/transit" thread:

 

"If they can walk to it ... they will use it," he said.

 

Surveys by Dr. Dan Nataf at Anne Arundel Community College's Center for the Study of Local Issues, show commuters will take transit only if it is located within six walking blocks.

 

I also recall a statistic that, on average nationwide, two-thirds of all transit riders reach a given transit stop by walking. The remaining one-third reach it by connecting from another transit vehicle, by driving to the transit stop or connecting from another mode of transportation (airport, intercity train, intercity bus, etc.).

 

Thus, the more housing, offices, retail, grocers, education, basic services (post office, banks, social services etc.) that can be squeezed within a 500-1000 feet radius of a transit stop the better. That means building upward tightly around rail stations, busy transit intersections and transit centers where transit capacity is most extensive. Unfortunately, look at satellite images of the areas immediately around our major transit facilities -- there's way too much surface parking, vacant land or transit-useless businesses like used-car lots, self-storage facilities and gas stations.

 

Even where there are factories, stores or other businesses that are of use to the transit rider, their front doors are as far away from the transit facility as possible. Some are virtually inaccessible -- being across the tracks with no way to reach them without hiking down to a distant road bridge and then walking all the back. Others are separated from the transit stop by forcing riders to cross a large station parking lot to reach them.

 

PB Placemaking has some great graphics and other stuff showing the do's and don'ts of transit-friendly land uses. Check 'em out sometime!