Great pictures from the ceremony

 

Thanks Sherrod! 

 

 

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

Kaitlin responded below. I suppose $343M funded = new $130M + previously awarded $157.5M plus previously committed $55.5Mfrom the previously discussed numbers, but it’s reassuring that RTA is confident. Still need to factor in Ken’s points about annual federal budget process.

 

 

 

 

So we're going to be able to double our initial order; this is such great news.

 

The enormous investment RTA is making in the railcar procurement and capital improvements to the Blue/Green lines is a strong signal that former riders should come back and potential riders should finally give them a try.

 

A concern I had with the pacing of the original railcar replacement was that service would continue to be too inconsistent and they would lose riders for good. There is still the potential that the timeline is too long; there is a lot of positive press right now, but we wont see the benefits for a few years. Presumably when the first cars everyone will be reminded why we should be excited about this.  

 

Hopefully between the rail cars, line improvements, and addition of the BRT line down W25 RTA will have sufficient cashflows that we wont have to wait so long between major investments!

fwiw, the reopened east side red line service felt noticeably faster when I rode today 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Thanks Sherrod! 

 

 

So much nicer than worrying about tampons or cans of Bud Light!    Go Sherrod!  

On 5/5/2023 at 2:58 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

Kaitlin responded below. I suppose $343M funded = new $130M + previously awarded $157.5M plus previously committed $55.5Mfrom the previously discussed numbers, but it’s reassuring that RTA is confident. Still need to factor in Ken’s points about annual federal budget process.

 

 

 

In RTA's press release, Dr. Caver is quoted that they will be increasing the initial rail car order.

 

https://www.riderta.com/news/gcrta-awarded-130-million

 

“This grant award represents a tremendous investment in Greater Cleveland and prepares us for the future of rail transportation with the latest advances in rail car technology,” said Dr. Floun’say Caver, GCRTA’s Chief Operating Officer. “With these funds, we can increase our initial order of 24 new rail cars thereby improving the customer experience and expanding the number of train routes in our system.”

 

But the total order will still stay at 60.

I really wonder if they will be running double cars since they offer less seats.

Also, to answer someone who said "15 minutes isn't high frequency" . It is for a transit system with low ridership. What is the point of running in 5-7 minute intervals if you aren't picking anyone up?

I don't think the frequency deters people with our system, it is the reliability of the rail system itself.

Now if we increased our stops as well as opened more stations near residential, jobs etc. Such as reopening 120th street station (Which is definitely possible with the new trains). With that those 15 minute trains started to become crowded then we can become a true high frequency system. Until then 15 minutes is more than adequate.

What I will say is the 30 minute frequency is way too slow.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Question for Cleveland transit gurus--what is the BEST source of current route status?  
 

I check on the RTA website and it doesn't seem remotely accurate.  For instance, no mention of any Red Line service problems here: 

 

https://www.riderta.com/riders-alerts

21 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Question for Cleveland transit gurus--what is the BEST source of current route status?  
 

I check on the RTA website and it doesn't seem remotely accurate.  For instance, no mention of any Red Line service problems here: 

 

https://www.riderta.com/riders-alerts

 

The Transit App is pretty accurate for me (for the most part). 

 

https://transitapp.com/

Edited May 10, 20232 yr by GISguy

3 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

The Transit App is pretty accurate for me (for the most part). 

 

https://transitapp.com/

Ok cool--yes I use it for fares, and just figured out how to set up service alerts on there.  It is showing the Red Line shuttle buses from the airport to Puritas, which is what I wanted to confirm. 

57 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

what is the BEST source of current route status?

 

1) Transit App

2) @GCRTAalerts on twitter (you can turn on notifications if you want to see every alert)

3) RTA website (a lot of stuff is buried or really annoying to find but often there)

 

For the Red Line specifically, I think someone previously mentioned the account "Is The Red Line Running Normally Today?" on twitter

https://twitter.com/IsRedLineNormal

 

Also, this thread is often helpful for major service disruptions known well in advance.

Edited May 10, 20232 yr by sonisharri

It's also worth following Clevelanders For Public Transit (@CLEforTransit) on twitter, they can be especially helpful when RTA does a bad job communicating service alerts, and for general transit news.

https://twitter.com/CLEforTransit

 

 

Edited May 10, 20232 yr by sonisharri

On 5/8/2023 at 3:22 PM, MyPhoneDead said:

Also, to answer someone who said "15 minutes isn't high frequency" . It is for a transit system with low ridership. What is the point of running in 5-7 minute intervals if you aren't picking anyone up?
I don't think the frequency deters people with our system, it is the reliability of the rail system itself.

 

As to transit generally, 15-minute frequency is essential if you want riders.  You can drive almost anywhere in Cleveland in about 45 minutes or less.  If you just miss the bus had have to wait half an hour, why would you have any interest in taking the bus if you could afford a car?  Maximizing 15-minute routes is as important as reliability.  (And I agree that 15-minutes is not high frequency, but probably as much as we can expect given the population density in Cleveland.)

 

On 5/8/2023 at 3:22 PM, MyPhoneDead said:

What I will say is the 30 minute frequency is way too slow.

Yep.  Very few of those routes will have much ridership.  RTA needs TOD.

14 minutes ago, Foraker said:

As to transit generally, 15-minute frequency is essential if you want riders.

...

And I agree that 15-minutes is not high frequency, but probably as much as we can expect given the population density in Cleveland.

 

15-minute frequency easily makes sense on many more routes, at least during peak hours, especially in parts of the city where there are few highways to compete with. Many people would rather drive or take an Uber if transit means waiting up to 30 minutes outside.

 

I would actually argue that frequency could get even better than 15 minutes in certain places—anyone that's taken buses between University Circle and surrounding east side neighborhoods during peak hours can see that ridership gets astonishingly high. I once made the mistake of taking the 10 north of UC during the PM rush, and even with 15 minute frequency the bus was standing room only; I saw multiple people walk out immediately upon entering, at least one after paying, because of how crowded it was.

 

I think it's important to remember that population density is only one part of the equation: TOD, parking situations, age demographics and income levels all play a role in transit ridership.

7 hours ago, sonisharri said:

 

I think it's important to remember that population density is only one part of the equation: TOD, parking situations, age demographics and income levels all play a role in transit ridership.

 

There are many high-frequency bus routes in suburban Canada, offering a bus every 5-10 minutes on main thoroughfares and 15-30 minutes into residential-only subdivisions like what you would see in Rocky River, Parma or Beachwood.

RTA committed to reopening the Waterfront Line in time for the Browns regular season.

 

https://www.cleveland19.com/2023/05/12/rta-committed-reopening-waterfront-line-time-browns-regular-season/

I can't quite make all my skepticism go away, but I'm hopeful. 

 

This caught my eye. " “The bridge opened in 1996 for the bicentennial,” he said. “We’re doing a mid-life overhaul so that it could last another 15, 20 years.” " 

 

Needing to replace this bridge is another 15 to 20 years seems way too soon. Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I'd expect a longer life than that. 

The connection to Akron Metro now will be every 30 minutes!

 

 

Does anyone know if you can purchase RTA fares via credit card when you get on the bus?

5 hours ago, Clefan14 said:

Does anyone know if you can purchase RTA fares via credit card when you get on the bus?

I don't know, but they should.  The London Underground now allows you to tap a credit card when you enter and exit the underground and it's really convenient.

11 minutes ago, Foraker said:

I don't know, but they should.  The London Underground now allows you to tap a credit card when you enter and exit the underground and it's really convenient.

I was on the tube a couple of weeks ago for the first time since Covid. I still had an old Oyster card that I took and used, but was in the definite minority. Nearly everyone was tapping their phone, or credit/ debit card. 

6 hours ago, Clefan14 said:

Does anyone know if you can purchase RTA fares via credit card when you get on the bus?

I don't think so.  Best you can do is buy tickets on the Transit App using your card. 

16 hours ago, Clefan14 said:

Does anyone know if you can purchase RTA fares via credit card when you get on the bus?

 

From RTA’s website:

Quote

CREDIT/DEBIT CARDS can be used in ticket vending machines and kiosks at Red Line stations, HealthLine stations and the Customer Service Center at Tower City. On the bus, there are cash purchases only.

 

Like @Cleburger said you can use your card through the Transit app

 

Edit: speaking of making fare payments easier, I rode the NY subway a while ago and all I had to do was tap my phone and it would automatically deduct the fare price from my card via Apple Pay. I believe this is still supposed to work after you run out of battery.

Edited May 28, 20232 yr by sonisharri

17 minutes ago, sonisharri said:

Edit: speaking of making fare payments easier, I rode the NY subway a while ago and all I had to do was tap my phone and it would automatically deduct the fare price from my card via Apple Pay. I believe this is still supposed to work after you run out of battery.

It really is the best thing to happen to transit in recent memory.    So much easier for everyone!  

I noticed this on the Transit app… can someone tell me this isn’t true?

 

Zero mention on any RTA webpages or social media either.

On 5/27/2023 at 11:03 PM, Cleburger said:

I don't think so.  Best you can do is buy tickets on the Transit App using your card. 

 

I can pay for gas at BP only using my phone, confirming the station and selecting the correct pump. 

On 5/27/2023 at 11:03 PM, Cleburger said:

I don't think so.  Best you can do is buy tickets on the Transit App using your card. 

 

22 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

I can pay for gas at BP only using my phone, confirming the station and selecting the correct pump. 

Eric, I don’t understand how this is any different than what you do on RTA’s transit App.

For Immediate Release

June 1, 2023

 

Connecting Communities Expanding Coverage

New Transportation Services at GCRTA’s Southgate Transit Center

 

Cleveland, OH – Starting on Monday, June 5, 2023, the Akron METRO RTA, will begin operating scheduled fixed-route bus service to and from GCRTA’s Southgate Transit Center to various places in Summit County. The Akron METRO RTA buses will also make stops at METRO RTA bus stops established along Northfield Road in Cuyahoga County.

 

“This is a huge win for residents of Cuyahoga County who may be looking for access to industrial jobs in Macedonia and Twinsburg, and for Summit County residents looking to access the vast opportunities in GCRTA’s network,” said GCRTA Chief Operating Officer, Dr. Floun’say Caver. “The collaboration between GCRTA and Akron METRO RTA provides new mobility opportunities and demonstrates the benefits of regional cooperation.”

 

GCRTA along with METRO RTA customers arriving at the Southgate Transit Center will now have the ability to transfer from one bus authority to another in reaching various destinations between Cleveland and Akron.

 

“Providing 30-minute service to GCRTA’s Southgate Transit Center will create new access to jobs and opportunities for our passengers, “said Dawn Distler, METRO RTA Chief Executive Officer. “I’m proud that our team continues to think outside of the bus by building connections beyond Summit County, and I thank GCRTA for their continued partnership in creating these connections for our communities.”

 

The new Akron METRO RTA routes are the #31 and #32. Those routes will run every hour on weekdays and Saturdays through Hudson, Twinsburg, Stow, and Macedonia, continuing on to Northfield and ending at GCRTA’s Southgate Transit Center in Cuyahoga County.

 

“I appreciate the opportunity to collaborate with Akron METRO RTA in providing integrated and innovative transportation solutions that increase service across the region, and enhances the riding experience for our customers,” said GCRTA General Manager and Chief Executive Officer, India L. Birdsong Terry.

 

Akron METRO RTA bus route schedules can be found by visiting https://www.yourmetrobus.org/bus-schedules.aspx  Also, you can utilize the Transit app to purchase fare media, real-time trip planning, paying fares, and vehicle tracking.

G’ah - Blue Line branch indefinitely down

 

Saw that. What's happening?

Any news or rumblings about signal prioritization on Euclid? Sorry, came across my mind coming into town today...

Oh red line, you broke my heart yesterday. The train plus the shuttle from Little Italy to Hopkins took almost 90 minutes yesterday in part due to the shuttle at Puritas to the airport. Track repair happens, but evidently I didn't dig deeply into the mobile site to see the news.

 

RTA or the city needs at least one representative at the Puritas and other in-between stations telling people where to go for a shuttle, or that there even is a shuttle. The driver just stopped at Puritas, mumbled something unintelligibly, and we all got out. She should have been warning us constantly on the intercom we would not go past Puritas, and buses were waiting outside. Adequate communication is the bare minimum, and they failed.  

 

Merely physically leaving the train and finding the street at the Puritas station was like nagivating an Escher painting. If you've been on that stop, you know what I mean. And while shi-t happens, the loud gutterpunk methhead couple screaming at each other at the shuttle stop was aggravating, and the aggravation was getting contagious. I'm not blaming RTA for those loons, but it was unwelcome with passengers already stressed. At least there was a bus waiting for us, though it did wait 10 or 15 minutes to open its doors and leave shortly after (the website says they leave every 30 minutes, so it could have been worse). I guess the driver didn't want to hear those freaks either.

 

To cap off a perfect trip, the driver accidentally drove to one of the Hopkins garages and somewhat got stuck in a weird angle. He and another passenger were discussing how to u-turn the vehicle, since it was quite confusing how one would navigate the bus from the lot's entrance. We've all been there, parking a car in a bad angle and unable to conceptualize how to straighten it without bumping something on the side or behind.

 

After a few minutes of watching this helplessness, a passenger and I asked the driver to open the door, which thankfully he did, and we walked the rest of the way, which wasn't too bad, while the driver awaited a second driver to arrive and help him back out.

 

Fun trip. Maybe it's time to start taking an Uber instead and eat the $30 or $40, whaver it is. There was a time when hotels would shuttle people directly - I've got to look into that option too.

 

Also, the website really needs alerts on the front page: one shouldn't have to dig through multiple pages to find them. Big blaring letters on the front page is easy and helpful. And a heads up: Shuttles from Tower City to 55th start today for all three lines and go until July 8th. Whoopie.

 

 

Edited June 11, 20232 yr by TBideon
There's a "c" in Escher? Got it.

2 hours ago, TBideon said:

And a heads up: Shuttles from Tower City to 55th start today for all three lines and go until July 8th. Whoopie.

 

Sounds like the transit app is going to be the only place RTA alerts will be available…

 

There's a reason why fewer than 20 million people rode GCRTA last year. It's slow, infrequent, unreliable, uncomfortable, unfriendly and only 17 percent of land within a comfortable walk of stops on high-frequency bus/rail transit routes has buildings on it.

At this point it’s totally unreliable and almost always not worth the hassle vs driving. That pains me to say because I would much prefer to take transit. But it seems to me the system will continue to spiral at least for several more years until the new trains arrive. Even then I wonder if the leadership is capable of turning this around. 

On 6/1/2023 at 8:22 AM, KJP said:

For Immediate Release

June 1, 2023

 

Connecting Communities Expanding Coverage

New Transportation Services at GCRTA’s Southgate Transit Center

 

Cleveland, OH – Starting on Monday, June 5, 2023, the Akron METRO RTA, will begin operating scheduled fixed-route bus service to and from GCRTA’s Southgate Transit Center to various places in Summit County. The Akron METRO RTA buses will also make stops at METRO RTA bus stops established along Northfield Road in Cuyahoga County.

 

“This is a huge win for residents of Cuyahoga County who may be looking for access to industrial jobs in Macedonia and Twinsburg, and for Summit County residents looking to access the vast opportunities in GCRTA’s network,” said GCRTA Chief Operating Officer, Dr. Floun’say Caver. “The collaboration between GCRTA and Akron METRO RTA provides new mobility opportunities and demonstrates the benefits of regional cooperation.”

 

GCRTA along with METRO RTA customers arriving at the Southgate Transit Center will now have the ability to transfer from one bus authority to another in reaching various destinations between Cleveland and Akron.

 

“Providing 30-minute service to GCRTA’s Southgate Transit Center will create new access to jobs and opportunities for our passengers, “said Dawn Distler, METRO RTA Chief Executive Officer. “I’m proud that our team continues to think outside of the bus by building connections beyond Summit County, and I thank GCRTA for their continued partnership in creating these connections for our communities.”

 

The new Akron METRO RTA routes are the #31 and #32. Those routes will run every hour on weekdays and Saturdays through Hudson, Twinsburg, Stow, and Macedonia, continuing on to Northfield and ending at GCRTA’s Southgate Transit Center in Cuyahoga County.

 

“I appreciate the opportunity to collaborate with Akron METRO RTA in providing integrated and innovative transportation solutions that increase service across the region, and enhances the riding experience for our customers,” said GCRTA General Manager and Chief Executive Officer, India L. Birdsong Terry.

 

Akron METRO RTA bus route schedules can be found by visiting https://www.yourmetrobus.org/bus-schedules.aspx  Also, you can utilize the Transit app to purchase fare media, real-time trip planning, paying fares, and vehicle tracking.

 

It took Metro to make this happen.  GCRTA could just as easily headed down to the Rocksino lot, or if they aren't willing the Northfield Plaza lot just down 8.

On 6/7/2023 at 9:30 AM, GISguy said:

Any news or rumblings about signal prioritization on Euclid? Sorry, came across my mind coming into town today...

 

I almost clicked the laugh react, but no it's not funny.   It's a waste of resources and BRT in this case is an oxymoron.

8 hours ago, KJP said:

There's a reason why fewer than 20 million people rode GCRTA last year. It's slow, infrequent, unreliable, uncomfortable, unfriendly and only 17 percent of land within a comfortable walk of stops on high-frequency bus/rail transit routes has buildings on it.

 

The only things that have changed in the nearly half a century since GCRTA was "encouraged" to absorb all its competition are those two numbers.   It's basically designed that way:  an entity serving a primarily captive audience with it's own convenience being the chief priority.

 

The Maple Heights skeptics of the 70s look like prophets are this point.

Edited June 13, 20232 yr by E Rocc

2 hours ago, E Rocc said:

The only things that have changed in the nearly half a century since GCRTA was "encouraged" to absorb all its competition are those two numbers. 

Or maybe it's much more complex than that black-and-white view of the world.  Sprawl has been in full swing for most of the past 50 years -- the metro population has stagnated (Cuyahoga County's population dropped from about 1.7m in 1970 to 1.2m in 2020) even as Avon Lake and other far-from-Public-Square suburbs have seen the most construction. 

 

https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/cwp/pop_trend.php

https://www.cleveland.com/news/erry-2018/07/c013564bfd6696/find_out_when_most_homes_in_yo.html

 

Since GCRTA is funded by a sales tax, its funding fluctuates with the economy.   I couldn't find sales tax revenue data or historical RTA revenue data, but Ohio overall spends less per capita on public transit than all but five states, so unlike the transit systems in Detroit or Pittsburgh, RTA isn't getting much assistance from the state.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/ohio-spends-less-than-most-states-on-public-transit-a-recent-analysis-shows

 

And despite its service woes, GCRTA still moves more than double the number of people as the transit systems in either Cincinnati or Columbus.

 

Transit works best when moving lots of people around dense areas where people live and work.  GCRTA cannot work efficiently with a diluted population, diluted job locations, and increased area that needs to be covered, and unpredictable (and minimal) revenue.  GCRTA needs more revenue and more TOD to improve service.

3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

The only things that have changed in the nearly half a century since GCRTA was "encouraged" to absorb all its competition are those two numbers.   It's basically designed that way:  an entity serving a primarily captive audience with it's own convenience being the chief priority.

 

The Maple Heights skeptics of the 70s look like prophets are this point.

I really don’t understand your obsession with the merger that happened nearly 50 years ago. Do you honestly believe that if Maple Height transit had remained independent it would somehow be a bastion of high quality public transit? There is PLENTY to criticize RTA for without your repeated suggestions of the merger being the source of RTA’s problems.

 

If we’re going to think about alternative timelines based on decisions from long ago, what if the region had adopted a geographic development limit and tax sharing agreement between counties like what happened in and around the Twin Cities? If that had happened, many of the people who moved to Medina, Lorain, and Geauga counties would have instead lived in new developments or revitalized neighborhoods  in Cuyahoga and Summit counties and would have been easier to serve with high quality transit AND would have had much higher sales tax revenue funding RTA (and Summit county transit). We would ALL be better off for that.

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

I really don’t understand your obsession with the merger that happened nearly 50 years ago. Do you honestly believe that if Maple Height transit had remained independent it would somehow be a bastion of high quality public transit? There is PLENTY to criticize RTA for without your repeated suggestions of the merger being the source of RTA’s problems.

 

If we’re going to think about alternative timelines based on decisions from long ago, what if the region had adopted a geographic development limit and tax sharing agreement between counties like what happened in and around the Twin Cities? If that had happened, many of the people who moved to Medina, Lorain, and Geauga counties would have instead lived in new developments or revitalized neighborhoods  in Cuyahoga and Summit counties and would have been easier to serve with high quality transit AND would have had much higher sales tax revenue funding RTA (and Summit county transit). We would ALL be better off for that.

 

My take has been consistent and simple since long before I discovered this forum:  the forced merger was a mistake.   MHTS spent a few years running autonomously right afterwards.   The buses were older but cleaner and more reliable, the service was better.    GCRTA's response to this was to push for a full merger.  Maple Heights had been a very transit friendly community (my mom never felt the need to get a driver's license), but it wasn't after that.  

 

The merger eliminated any and all competition and that allowed the bureaucracy to serve itself rather than real or potential riders.

 

The development limit idea is off topic here, but it never would have flown in this area.

Edited June 13, 20232 yr by E Rocc

42 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

My take has been consistent and simple since long before I discovered this forum:  the forced merger was a mistake.   MHTS spent a few years running autonomously right afterwards.   The buses were older but cleaner and more reliable, the service was better.    GCRTA's response to this was to push for a full merger.  Maple Heights had been a very transit friendly community (my mom never felt the need to get a driver's license), but it wasn't after that.  

 

The merger eliminated any and all competition and that allowed the bureaucracy to serve itself rather than real or potential riders.

 

The development limit idea is off topic here, but it never would have flown in this area.

You’ve said this many times. What you haven’t clarified is how you think Maple Heights would have had good public transit today if their transit system had remained independent. How would that have worked? What would the funding mechanism be? How would it have maintained itself in light of a severely eroding tax base? From my perspective, it would have all of the challenges of RTA today, and a lot fewer resources to potentially address them. 

To me, this is all "good ol' days" stuff that is based on nostalgia, not economic reality. If some suburbs in Cuyahoga County were still running their own transit, that would be one thing. If they were running it well, that would be another. But none even exist. And like Brian said, running your own transit system with a tax base that has bled 550,000 residents and perhaps as many jobs is not going to work. Even so, in a built-out county with lots of aging industries and polluted land being forced to compete for taxbase with clean-n-green forests and fields aka development sites bolstered by local/state/federal subsidies, not to mention other countries with slave labor and no enviro regs means your county is going to bleed taxbase. A transit system funded almost entirely from that county's taxbase is going to suffer mightily.

LOL!

 

 

^ I’d love to see them and give them money, but I’ve heard they cancel gigs at the last minute and without explanation. 

37 minutes ago, KJP said:

LOL!

 

Go check out their songs, my favorite is Bus Beach Party (Dracula)

Quote

Transylvania was the place to be
For all the groovy ghouls to shake, twist and scream
Until the day a note appeared on my door
We regret to let you know that you don’t live here anymore
Hasty expansion of the motorways
Demolished my castle in the name of the state

 

40 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ I’d love to see them and give them money, but I’ve heard they cancel gigs at the last minute and without explanation. 

 

I hear they show up 45 minutes late, and then play two shows right in a row.

They substitute band members all the time too.   Stole some of these and added that.   :)

 

Ordering tickets online is still problematic too, correct?

Edited June 14, 20232 yr by E Rocc

Not to be confused with 1990's Cleveland/Akron alt rockers The Frans.    They had a little buzz to them back in the day.   The drummer Brett Lashua was one of the best in town during that period.  

 

Jump to 9:49 for a grainy performance at SXSW