^---I agree. Mass transit operates with a bottom line like anybody else. They are not here to provide a free public service.

^You're right, Pope, Jerry did answer it... I'll bite on the Summer answer (though I may not agree).  But the New Year's Eve service, which is only 1 night per year and where the rail service could save lives and help downtown, too, is something that I think needs to be revisited.

^You're right, Pope, Jerry did answer it... I'll bite on the Summer answer (though I may not agree).  But the New Year's Eve service, which is only 1 night per year and where the rail service could save lives and help downtown, too, is something that I think needs to be revisited.

 

I don't know if you have the ability to answer it, but historically how many people have died on NYE as a result of alcohol related motor vehicle fatalities?

 

I'm not trying to downplay your individual concern, but if there isn't a "huge" problem then why are we trying to come up with a solution.

Here's a link to alcohol related fatalities during different holidays in 2002:

 

http://www.duipictures.com/holiday.htm

I know 2-3 years ago, we were driving through the Flats coming from a party at the Powerhouse roughly 1.5 hours after New year's eve midnight.  Normally, I don't like to be downtown midnight b/c there are so many drunks, and often violence... When we came to the Waterfront line crossing on Old River road, cops were directing traffic around where an apparent drunken had crashed into/knocked down the crossing gate and signal for the RTA trains... The irony is obvious... maybe, just maybe, the guy (woman) who did this could have been riding the train and avoided this escaping possible injury or even death ... We'll never know for sure... This is but one small example of the many accidents I'm sure happen every NYE around the area.

 

... point being, Pope, I think it is a very big deal.  If this service saves 1 injury or life, it's critical.  We know during St. Paddy's day, RTA provides rush hour service, and 2-3 car trains all day for similar purposes because you know, just like NYE, there are more drunks than you can shake a stick at... So for a lousy few thousand bucks, for one night, why shouldn't RTA be running this service?... Esp since it already had been doing so.

Here's a link to alcohol related fatalities during different holidays in 2002:

 

http://www.duipictures.com/holiday.htm

 

Thanks, CornerCurve.

I have been gone for a few days, and I am WAAY behind on the answers. I will try to play catch-up this afternoon. Please bear with me...I read posts in chrono order.

Year-end ridership numbers...drum roll please...

 

For the fifth straight year, RTA showed a ridership increase.

 

2007 Total: 57.3 million, up 0.1 percent

 

Heavy rail: up 7.9 percent

 

Light rail: up 10 percent

 

Total rail: up 8.6 percent

 

Bus: down 1.4 percent

 

Paratransit: Up 6.9 percent

 

Bike boardings in December were 2,349, up 12.1 percent. For the year, bike boardings were around 50,000, up 39 percent.

<<Has RTA considered bringing back the 10-ride passes?>>

 

No, and here is why. To prevent customers from going from A to B and back to B all in one short trip (and one fare), we now place two lines of info on the back of each 5-trip pass, each time the pass is used. That gives you 10 lines of info, so the 5-trip pass is the most that can be offered. I hope this is clear enough.

 

RTA is now using the term "5-trip pass" instead of "5-ride pass" for more accurately reflect this.

 

That's great the more people are utilizing the bike/transit tandem, but the more people do, the more I worry that I'll be waiting for the train and will be unable to get on a car because of the 2 bike limit.  Great news on the ridership growth, though!

CTownsFinest wants RTA to "run more busses."

 

That's like telling the City of Cleveland to "hire more police" because you want to see a reduction in crime. It has never been proven that more police = less crime. If there are 10 intersections in Cleveland, and you hire 9 police, a crime will be committed at the 10th intersection. The City of Cleveland will NEVER be able to hire as many police as it needs, without decimating the rest of the General Fund.

 

RTA will NEVER be able to operate as many buses as our customers would like for the very same reason. Too many people want to see frequent bus service, when the numbers just aren't there to justify it. (We have the numbers, and we review them constantly, to match service with demand. They are both moving targets.)

 

It costs "around" $100 an hour to operate a bus, including fuel and operator salary. Plus, RTA's budget is being pushed to the limits this year, despite the recent fare increase.

 

The answer lies in increased state funding, which right now, can best be described as "poor." If you want to see things improve, write to your state legislator. RTA has already cut about $25 million annually from its budget. Now, let's see someone else pony up to the table with a "meaningful" solution.

KJP

 

We have discovered that there are some ways to use currency more quickly. We are now working on some signage, etc. to help educate the customers. I passed along your comment to the team that is riding herd on the fare collection upgrade

Do the new fare boxes accept $1 coins?

Yes, but no foreign money.

... point being, Pope, I think it is a very big deal.  If this service saves 1 injury or life, it's critical.  We know during St. Paddy's day, RTA provides rush hour service, and 2-3 car trains all day for similar purposes because you know, just like NYE, there are more drunks than you can shake a stick at... So for a lousy few thousand bucks, for one night, why shouldn't RTA be running this service?... Esp since it already had been doing so.

 

Point being, apparently RTA should run service 24 hours a day from Thanksgiving to New years, and on the fourth of july, and year round?

 

http://www.riderta.com/PDF/RidersDigest/Farebox-RD.pdf

 

Full details on the fare collection upgrade

If we were really concerned about 1 injury or 1 life, we wouldn't allow any cars, planes, trains!!!!

<<I have no problem with RTA's fare increase as long as they dont cut service and work on improving current service (more frequent service, expanded rail in the future)>>

 

The purpose of the fare increase, as stated many, many times, was to help balance the budget because of the rising cost of diesel fuel.

If RTA did not move to increase fares, it would not be able to balance the budget, as required by law. Maintaining fiscal integrity means there will be buses and Rapids operating to get you to work each day.

 

The fare increase was NEVER intended, and never promised, as a means of improving service or expanding rail. I am sorry if I burst your bubble, but reality can be a pain sometimes.

RTA's transfer policy...

 

No paper transfers are issued.

 

In rare cases (such as a Zoo or Museum promotion), riders have to prove they took RTA to an event, so operators issue a piece of paper so they qualify for discounted admission.

 

All fare media issued by RTA includes transfer privileges.

 

If you are using a 5-trip farecard, you have 2.5 hours of free transfers from the time you first use it, as long as you are not trying to return on the same line.

 

For instance, if you take bus route #007 downtown to pay a bill, you cannot take #007 back home, without using up a second ride.

RTA used to offer all night, New Year's Eve service a few years, which I thought was a great public service in keeping drunk driver's off the road and keeping other drivers safe from them.  With the continued resurgence of downtown nightlife (and other areas, like Ohio City), I think this service should be brought back. 

 

I also believe that summertime rail service till 2a should be returned. 

 

New Year's Eve: RTA's primary goal is to maintain bus service for work trips. Besides, for much of the rail, you will be dropped off in a parking lot, and get in your car (drunk?) to drive home. No thank you. Been there, done that, ridership was low.

 

Summer rail until 2 a.m.: RTA now operates full rail service to every special event, such as concerts at the Q, and Tribe game. Service is guaranteed until 90 minutes after the event ends, even if the baseball game goes into extra innings.

 

If getting drunk is your idea of a good time, fine. Be socially responsible, and line up a designated driver. RTA's budget already addresses a multitude of concerns, and this one is not on our plate.

 

RTA operates extra rail service on any day when there is a major event downtown, such as the St. Paddy's Parade, the holiday lighting ceremony, and the Cleveland Orchestra concert.

 

The extra service is there to help thousands of riders get to Public Square and back. The service was added for all riders. It is not targeted specifically for the drunks.

This is in response to an earlier posting about why RTA began selling the higher priced passes a few days before the Jan. 7 fare increase:

 

Quote from Matt Davis, RTA Revenue Dept:

"The vending machines were changed early because most customers wanted to buy passes and farecards that would be valid after the price change. We did not want to sell something out of the machines that would have a very short usage time."

A quick vent:

 

On my way to work this morning, I was on what I thought was the SLOWEST #6 bus in the history of Euclid transit.  It wasn't because of traffic or the crowds or stopping for passengers every other block... nor was it because of ECTP construction.  I hopped on at 8:30 at Public Square and didn't get to E. 55th until 8:50.  The driver was pushing 20 MPH most of the distance and stopped at green lights on a couple occasions.  At E. 55th, we sat through 2 cycles before finally proceeding on the 3rd.  What???  I decided to check my schedule to see how far behind we were and to my surprise, I found that we were right on time!  The schedule said departure from Public Square at 8:32 would reach E. 55th at 8:51.  So, I guess I can't really complain, except for the fact that we were really crawling and nothing's more irritating when you're on your way to work than sitting at green lights for what seems like no good reason.  End of the story was that I arrived in University Circle "on time," by the schedule's standards, but 35 minutes from P.S. to E. 115th Street when there is no traffic felt interminable.  I guess if I have a question, it would be whether the driver is required to go slow to stay on schedule.  And if that's the case, maybe the schedule should be a bit more aggressive!

 

I can chime in on this one, since I've experienced it myself on other routes (notably the #9, while construction on Mayfield is suspended for the winter).

 

Yes, what you likely experienced was an operator attempting to keep himself on schedule, by slowly "using up" accumulated time between stops. The choice is either this or idle at a single stop for a period of time. Under no circumstances should an operator allow himself to get too far ahead of schedule.

 

I know this sounds like an inconvenience to the people already on the bus (because, in fact, it is), but adhering to the schedule allows the people further down the line to effectively use our services, rather than just missing a bus because they read the schedule correctly and the operator was running early (which can also lead to one bus running nearly empty and the next one being overcrowded). As I mentioned elsewhere, early arrivals/departures are the one thing that senior management absolutely doesn't accept. Run late if you must, but DON'T RUN EARLY is a mantra amongst our operating districts.

 

I'm fairly certain the #6 (and #9) schedule will be adjusted as the factors that have previously slowed (or allowed improvements in) their service come closer to final resolution (which means no major changes on the #9 until the north side of Mayfield is complete, and no major changes to the #6 until Euclid Ave is more substantially complete), but any major adjustment in a system such as this has to be undertaken carefully. Buses on one line will frequently operate return or continuing trips on a different line, and we have to be cognizant of sufficient operator layover time and appropriate connection opportunities wherever possible. Keep in mind, RTA operates as an interconnected system, not just a bunch of independent runs. Change one time setting in the machine, and the whole thing goes to hell if you don't consider the consequences...

Thanks for the quick replies Jerry and JetDog!

If you are using a 5-trip farecard, you have 2.5 hours of free transfers from the time you first use it, as long as you are not trying to return on the same line.

 

For instance, if you take bus route #007 downtown to pay a bill, you cannot take #007 back home, without using up a second ride.

 

from riding in other cities / countries, this seems like a very aggressive way to view a transfer. 

 

i've used to old transfer system to go from downtown to the west side market and back within 1 hour, for 1 ride.  if i now have to pay 3.50 for this same trip, i'm likely to just drive and park for free (or maybe take the 66x there and the 20, 22 or 35 back to work within this new system).

 

was there widespread use of this feature or did someone think they could wring a few extra dollars out of the passes?  it seems like this has a negative effect of making the transit system less friendly/convenient/cost effective.

If getting drunk is your idea of a good time, fine. Be socially responsible, and line up a designated driver. RTA's budget already addresses a multitude of concerns, and this one is not on our plate.

 

There is a difference between being drunk and drinking moderately, but still not wanting to drive.  That is why I usually take the CTA here in Chicago.

 

Also, in Chicago, the area around "el" tracks are the most sought after areas to open a tavern.  This is true for two reasons, one to catch people getting off the train after work, the second is that people enjoy being able to jump on a train after a night out.

 

I just don't get why the powers that be in Cleveland have such a difficult time understanding social drinking.  Just because someone would like the option of riding an RTA train after going out with friends does not make them a socially irresponsible drunk.

If you are using a 5-trip farecard, you have 2.5 hours of free transfers from the time you first use it, as long as you are not trying to return on the same line.

 

For instance, if you take bus route #007 downtown to pay a bill, you cannot take #007 back home, without using up a second ride.

 

from riding in other cities / countries, this seems like a very aggressive way to view a transfer. 

 

i've used to old transfer system to go from downtown to the west side market and back within 1 hour, for 1 ride.  if i now have to pay 3.50 for this same trip, i'm likely to just drive and park for free (or maybe take the 66x there and the 20, 22 or 35 back to work within this new system).

 

was there widespread use of this feature or did someone think they could wring a few extra dollars out of the passes?  it seems like this has a negative effect of making the transit system less friendly/convenient/cost effective.

 

I didn't conduct a scientific examination, but a cursory look at other agencies' transfer policies indicates that we're pretty much right in line with expectations.

 

The purpose of a transfer is to allow completion of a one-way trip when single bus service between two points is unavailable, and RTA's current policy reflects that. I can't necessarily speak to the more liberal nature of the old policy, since I wasn't here at the time.

 

As you've noted, our current policy does still allow for return to the same area via a different route or mode of transportation, where some of the systems I reviewed didn't even allow that. In those rare instances where a more liberal directional policy was allowed, this was restricted by more tightly defined time periods -- there's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

I can share more details if you wish, at a later time...

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1131

 

Highlights of the Jan. 22 RTA Board meeting have been posted.

Was there widespread use of this feature or did someone think they could wring a few extra dollars out of the passes?

 

There was widespread abuse of the transfer, from RTA's perspective. Regular bus fare is already heavily discounted -- it costs around $5 to provide a bus ride, the rest is subsidized by the sales tax. Like anyone in business, RTA needs the revenue to survive, and when people abuse the system, policies are put in place to stop the abuse.

 

In retail for instance, some stores lose $100,000 a year to shoplifters. How do they recover that? They charge higher prices for everyone else. If they can reduce the shoplifting abuse, they can offer lower prices. The same principle applies here.

Jan. 22, 2008, The Columbus Dispatch

 

Mapquest, move over

 

Columbus and Cleveland have been added to PublicRoutes.com, a directions-based Web resource for public transportation.

 

The service provides point-to-point directions for all modes of transportation available and also has information and directions to each city’s top points of interests such as restaurants, sports arenas and nightclubs.

 

The company at www.publicroutes.com gives directions in more than 30 major cities in the U.S. and United Kingdom, and plans to expand to include more.

 

Thanks to Stu Nicholson for pointing this out.

 

Jan. 22, 2008, The Columbus Dispatch

 

Mapquest, move over

 

ugh! :x

Jan. 22, 2008, The Columbus Dispatch

 

Mapquest, move over

 

Columbus and Cleveland have been added to PublicRoutes.com, a directions-based Web resource for public transportation.

 

The service provides point-to-point directions for all modes of transportation available and also has information and directions to each city’s top points of interests such as restaurants, sports arenas and nightclubs.

 

The company at www.publicroutes.com gives directions in more than 30 major cities in the U.S. and United Kingdom, and plans to expand to include more.

 

Thanks to Stu Nicholson for pointing this out.

 

 

Oh, sweet hyperbole, what promises you make; if only you could deliver...

 

Just to let everyone know, I've examined the web site at http://www.publicroutes.com, and while the initial appearance looks good, this is most definitely a version 1.0 effort.

 

There is no area within the interface to specify a time and/or date for your trip, and while alternatives are given, there doesn't appear to be any way to consider an alternative, i.e., I attempted a trip from downtown to Rockside Rd. in Independence, and was given a primary choice of the #77F, with an advisement to also consider the #35, but no means by which to consult further information for the #35 alternative.

 

Furthermore, at least some of their information appears to be outdated -- a trip plan from downtown to W 61 suggested the #45Y, with the #45R and #326 (which hasn't existed for just over a month) as possible alternatives.

 

Also, this system does not display the actual path a given route takes, just the starting and ending points, and total trip time doesn't seem to consider potential layover time.

 

Finally, to the best of my knowledge, no one from that company has had any official dealings with RTA, nor us with them (a situation which I have rectified with a call to their PR contact, who is having someone get back to me). I'm uncertain where the data they are using for their trip planning is presently coming from.

 

I'm all for encouraging any effort that promotes the use of our services, and will provide any reasonable assistance to any business interested in doing such, so long as my assistance does not negatively impact our responsiveness to our customers. While we will not necessarily endorse any outside solution, I'll gladly provide reference to it, so long as it proves to be worthy of such reference. I would like to hear feedback on other people's experimentation with this offering, either here on the forum or direct e-mail to [email protected].

 

On a slightly related note, I've received some additional information from our scheduling software provider regarding export of their data in a Google Transit-friendly format, and have been working with our planning staff to get route path information in a usable format. I should have more to report on that shortly.

RTA operates extra rail service on any day when there is a major event downtown, such as the St. Paddy's Parade, the holiday lighting ceremony, and the Cleveland Orchestra concert.

 

The extra service is there to help thousands of riders get to Public Square and back. The service was added for all riders. It is not targeted specifically for the drunks.

 

Maybe this was asked/answered previously, so I aplogize if it was.  Why is there not dramatically increased BUS service during these events. Many, many of your riders actually can and do get out of the bus and walk to our homes, vs. the rail riders who often, as you pointed out in another thread, get into a car and drive.  And JMO but your bashing of people who enjoy alcohol now and again as "drunks" is not very kind.

 

I understand it's cheaper for RTA to operate the rail lines than the buses but as a bus rider for several years, I really don't appreciate feeling forced into choosing the rail (and having to drive to a rail line park and ride, which adds another 10 minutes each way onto my commute) because there were so many problems with the bus.  Buses that don't show.  Buses that are overcrowded and then service is cut to even fewer trips, buses that break down (this happened to me twice on the freeway), buses that only run once an hour in the evening, which is basically worthless, etc.  The worst is attempting to take the bus on St. Patrick's Day.  One TRIES not to drink and drive but one is forced to because the bus service is unbelieveably bad on St. Patty's.  It's a HUGE holiday here and most people would rather be responsible and take public trans and then walk home instead of driving, and yet it's so overcrowded that you often have to watch 5 or 6 buses go by crammed with people who look like sardines.  Maybe you need bus "pushers" on these days like they have train pushers in Japan or something.

Maybe this was asked/answered previously, so I aplogize if it was.  Why is there not dramatically increased BUS service during these events. Many, many of your riders actually can and do get out of the bus and walk to our homes, vs. the rail riders who often, as you pointed out in another thread, get into a car and drive.  And JMO but your bashing of people who enjoy alcohol now and again as "drunks" is not very kind.

 

I understand it's cheaper for RTA to operate the rail lines than the buses but as a bus rider for several years, I really don't appreciate feeling forced into choosing the rail (and having to drive to a rail line park and ride, which adds another 10 minutes each way onto my commute) because there were so many problems with the bus.  Buses that don't show.  Buses that are overcrowded and then service is cut to even fewer trips, buses that break down (this happened to me twice on the freeway), buses that only run once an hour in the evening, which is basically worthless, etc.  The worst is attempting to take the bus on St. Patrick's Day.  One TRIES not to drink and drive but one is forced to because the bus service is unbelieveably bad on St. Patty's.  It's a HUGE holiday here and most people would rather be responsible and take public trans and then walk home instead of driving, and yet it's so overcrowded that you often have to watch 5 or 6 buses go by crammed with people who look like sardines.  Maybe you need bus "pushers" on these days like they have train pushers in Japan or something.

 

As a rail user, I say take a bus to a rail line.  :-D

Maybe this was asked/answered previously, so I aplogize if it was.  Why is there not dramatically increased BUS service during these events. Many, many of your riders actually can and do get out of the bus and walk to our homes, vs. the rail riders who often, as you pointed out in another thread, get into a car and drive.  And JMO but your bashing of people who enjoy alcohol now and again as "drunks" is not very kind.

 

I understand it's cheaper for RTA to operate the rail lines than the buses but as a bus rider for several years, I really don't appreciate feeling forced into choosing the rail (and having to drive to a rail line park and ride, which adds another 10 minutes each way onto my commute) because there were so many problems with the bus.  Buses that don't show.  Buses that are overcrowded and then service is cut to even fewer trips, buses that break down (this happened to me twice on the freeway), buses that only run once an hour in the evening, which is basically worthless, etc.  The worst is attempting to take the bus on St. Patrick's Day.  One TRIES not to drink and drive but one is forced to because the bus service is unbelieveably bad on St. Patty's.  It's a HUGE holiday here and most people would rather be responsible and take public trans and then walk home instead of driving, and yet it's so overcrowded that you often have to watch 5 or 6 buses go by crammed with people who look like sardines.  Maybe you need bus "pushers" on these days like they have train pushers in Japan or something.

 

As a rail user, I say take a bus to a rail line.  :-D

 

That's really not possible where I live.  There are only 2 bus lines that go by my home and niether go to a park and ride rail location.

Also, even if it were possible, there's no way I would do this because if I had to work late (and I sometimes do), my commute could take as long as 2.5-3 HOURS because the bus only runs once an hour after 6.  If you miss it, you have to wait another hour. 

<<...Your bashing of people who enjoy alcohol now and again as "drunks" is not very kind.>>

 

I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone. I was just pointing out our individual responsibility.

 

No transit system can be all things to all people. RTA has limited resources, and its core business is getting people to work and home again. On a second level, we try to provide service to special events because we know there will be a concentrated demand (a lot of people in a short amount of time), and thus, a good use of our resources. Providing extra service on Dec. 31 would drain resources from those two top missions. In the past, ridership was never strong that evening.

 

Regarding bus vs. rail for special events...

 

Rail is the most cost-effective way for RTA to serve special events at Browns Stadium, Public Square, Progressive Field or Quicken Loans Arena. The bus system is too diverse, geographically speaking. If we agree to increase bus service for a special event, then which routes do we select? We cannot increase service on all routes. Remember, one bus operating for one hour costs RTA about $100.

 

As a day-to-day example, look at the Wolstein Center at CSU. When that center hosts a special event, there is literally NO increase in ridership, although several bus lines serve that area. So, when there is a concert at the Q, RTA adds rail service to handle the added crowds. When a concert comes to CSU, no extra service is added, because none is needed.

 

I hope this helps explain some of the realities that RTA faces daily.

 

Thanks for the dialogue.

 

I think that the biggest problem is that well-meaning people such as yourself at RTA aren't seeing the "chicken-egg" problem that exists in spades.  You didn't/don't see increased ridership on those events BECAUSE people have come to understand that RTA cannot be counted on for their transportation and so they make other arrangements.  I know I certainly would never count on RTA getting me home from a Cavs game or a concert.  If you look at it instead from a supply and demand perspective (not that I know anything about accouting, I'm just speaking generally), the fact that ridership has been UP 5 years in a ROW has got to be a clear message to RTA that Clevelanders ARE willing to take public transportation.  more and more and more.  As gas prices, issues surrounding fossil fuels, environmentalism and the cost of car ownership and maintenance continue to rise, ridership is only likely to grow. But ONLY if the services also grow and the organization can begin serving the riders in a better capacity.  I cannot tell you how many conversations I have had alongside my fellow riders (on the bus - people don't seem as inclined to chat on the rail) in the years since I moved back to Cleveland and started taking public trans to/from work again about how much they wish they could get rid of their car and use RTA for everything, about what has happened to them negatively when they tried to use it for anything but to/from work, etc.

 

I know that the company line is that fares have been increased (and increased again) because of the cost of fuel and in some respects I'm sure that's true, but IMO this is an opportunity being lost and in a lot of respects causing bitterness because all the riders talk about is longer waits, fewer lines available and increased fares, and yet RTA seems to have somehow won some prestigious award for being "the best" at public transit.  I don't proclaim to know how to suggest the desires of your ridership be satisfied, but is not my job, thankfully.  But with so many more people riding now than ever, a 5 year in a row increase PLUS the fare increase, I just don't believe that the organization is limping along and barely making ends meet.  Even if it's absolutely 100% true, I can tell you the riders don't believe it either and it's often commented on that we are paying more for less.

Thanks for the dialogue.

 

I think that the biggest problem is that well-meaning people such as yourself at RTA aren't seeing the "chicken-egg" problem that exists in spades.  You didn't/don't see increased ridership on those events BECAUSE people have come to understand that RTA cannot be counted on for their transportation and so they make other arrangements.  I know I certainly would never count on RTA getting me home from a Cavs game or a concert.  If you look at it instead from a supply and demand perspective (not that I know anything about accouting, I'm just speaking generally), the fact that ridership has been UP 5 years in a ROW has got to be a clear message to RTA that Clevelanders ARE willing to take public transportation.  more and more and more.  As gas prices, issues surrounding fossil fuels, environmentalism and the cost of car ownership and maintenance continue to rise, ridership is only likely to grow. But ONLY if the services also grow and the organization can begin serving the riders in a better capacity.  I cannot tell you how many conversations I have had alongside my fellow riders (on the bus - people don't seem as inclined to chat on the rail) in the years since I moved back to Cleveland and started taking public trans to/from work again about how much they wish they could get rid of their car and use RTA for everything, about what has happened to them negatively when they tried to use it for anything but to/from work, etc.

 

I know that the company line is that fares have been increased (and increased again) because of the cost of fuel and in some respects I'm sure that's true, but IMO this is an opportunity being lost and in a lot of respects causing bitterness because all the riders talk about is longer waits, fewer lines available and increased fares, and yet RTA seems to have somehow won some prestigious award for being "the best" at public transit.  I don't proclaim to know how to suggest the desires of your ridership be satisfied, but is not my job, thankfully.  But with so many more people riding now than ever, a 5 year in a row increase PLUS the fare increase, I just don't believe that the organization is limping along and barely making ends meet.  Even if it's absolutely 100% true, I can tell you the riders don't believe it either and it's often commented on that we are paying more for less.

 

If utilizing public transport is such an important issue with you, why not just move to a locale that is better served by buses and rail?  As stated on this site before, it's easier to move to a better served area than to convince RTA to drop you off at your front door.

rockandroller,  I think you are probably right regarding the expectations of many riders, but I think it's because they don't really understand the economic realities Jerry explains.  RTA's routes lose lost of money; the fare box is a small percentage of RTA's revenue.  RTA's mandate is to carry the transit dependent and as many other people as possible within their budget.  I think it is unrealistic to expect, while living outside a 10-mile radius of public square, frequent bus-service at all, let alone service beyond rush-hour.  Just as people choose where to live based on school systems, property tax levels and park systems, people also need to realize that transit access is dependent on location:in short if you want service, you need to live by a rail line or near areas sufficiently dense to support frequent bus service.  As greater Clevelanders, we're actually pretty lucky that here is plenty of reasonably priced housing that is well served by transit.

 

I would rather not take a heaping load of criticism for it, though it may be unavoidable on this site, but I actually enjoy living in the suburbs.    When taking into account the positives and negatives vs. not living in the surburbs, for me, it way, way comes out on the positive side.  Public transportation availability would be nice, but it's not as important as all the other things that have my choosing the suburbs as my home and all the negatives that make me not want to live in the places I shop and dine.  I really prefer to VISIT the rest of Cleveland than live in it.  I mean, in the last week I've been to Nate's, Bar Cento, Leolai, the WSM, South Side, Dave's, Cleveland Public Theater and the coffee shop next to it.  But every single place I visit I always think, "I'm glad I don't live here."  Next to the coffee shop 2 nights ago some drug pushers were getting arrested.  I did not feel comfortable leaving my car where I left it when I walked to Bar Cento.  I do not feel comfortable walking around the parking lot of Dave's alone at night.  My girlfriend who lives in OC just got her car broken into for the 3rd time last month.  I was just reading about the people trying to get club owners from there being a loud, 500-person capacity nightclub just outside their doors.  That is just not a concern where I live.  I just am not comfortable in these settings by myself all the time, particularly at night, and I want to be able to go out for a walk at night and not fear for my safety or feel uncomfortable.  I'm sure I'll get slammed for that response but it's how I feel.

 

I don't think wanting a public transportation system that services well many of it's popular suburbs is some kind of unusual request.  But of course if you think that, that's ok.

rockandroller,  I think you are probably right regarding the expectations of many riders, but I think it's because they don't really understand the economic realities Jerry explains.  RTA's routes lose lost of money; the fare box is a small percentage of RTA's revenue.  RTA's mandate is to carry the transit dependent and as many other people as possible within their budget.  I think it is unrealistic to expect, while living outside a 10-mile radius of public square, frequent bus-service at all, let alone service beyond rush-hour.  Just as people choose where to live based on school systems, property tax levels and park systems, people also need to realize that transit access is dependent on location:in short if you want service, you need to live by a rail line or near areas sufficiently dense to support frequent bus service.  As greater Clevelanders, we're actually pretty lucky that here is plenty of reasonably priced housing that is well served by transit.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughtful answer.  I'm sure you're right that the fares are not "all there is," it's just the most visible customer piece.

 

I won't get into the "affordable" housing because I think that's an oxymoron.  I will never own a house as long as I live, it's just a grim reality of my financial situation, as I do not wish to end up biting off way, way more than I will ever be able to chew.  Unless I win the lottery this weekend.  I understand conceptually that housing here is much less expensive than the rest of the country, but to me, it's just not affordable.

I would rather not take a heaping load of criticism for it, though it may be unavoidable on this site, but I actually enjoy living in the suburbs.   

 

R&R- I definitely did not mean to lay any criticism on you for choosing burbs, seriously.  I don't think W28 or Jerry mean too either.  We're just responding to the reasonable-sounding request that RTA beef up service to relatively far flung areas.  It's just not economically feasible when you're talking about such a wide radius and such relatively low density of housing, let alone transit riders.

 

I'll also point out that there are some pretty decent suburbs with pretty good transit access, so inner city vs. post-war suburbia is a false choice when you're talking transit access.

^The perception of being safe and unsafe are usually exaggerated heavily in the opposite direction of reality.  But that's your issue.  Anyways, back to the transit topic...

It's the "chicken and the egg," get better service to your suburb, or move to a better served area.  What's more likely?

If Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway are too "dangerous," what about Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Lakewood, Downtown, Rocky River, etc, etc, etc...

I am awfully familiar with Cleveland having lived and worked here since 1992 and I am not aware of any suburb *in which I would like to live* that has good transit access.  "Decent" is unfortunately a judgment call and too hard to quantify - your version may be different than mine.  But thanks for the dialogue again.

 

I get jumped on all the time on this board because I live in the suburbs, as though I'm some kind of leper.  I'm just hypersensitive to it.

 

I mean, servicing Los Angeles and all of it's spread out areas, that is unreasonable. But Cleveland and it's suburbs?  Just seems not impossible to me.

^The perception of being safe and unsafe are usually exaggerated heavily in the opposite direction of reality.  But that's your issue.  Anyways, back to the transit topic...

It's the "chicken and the egg," get better service to your suburb, or move to a better served area.  What's more likely?

If Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway are too "dangerous," what about Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Lakewood, Downtown, Rocky River, etc, etc, etc...

 

I would not live in CleHts or Shaker, nor downtown.  I lived in Lakewood for a long time and have zero desire to ever live there again, it's just got problems that for me are not desirable.  I do like the west suburbs a lot (RR, Westlake, even N.O.) and have been trying to move back ever since I had to leave to move to MH where the rent is cheaper after I got laid off back in 2003, but cannot find anything suitable in my price range.  Every place I look at is smaller, has less amenities, etc.  I mean, where I live I have two things that are very, very important to me.  A gas stove (I am an avid home cook) and FREE HEAT.  Trying to find another place even with a gas stove has proved pretty impossible, but finding the combination of those two things is nearly impossible.  We have a beautiful lake we can walk around in the nicer weather months which houses a variety of birds and there is beautiful landscaping. We have a free, decent fitness room, a party room you can rent (which I have taken advantage of as my apt is too small to entertain), free, GOOD 24-hour maintenance, carpet cleanings, I just got a new kitchen floor just because I asked, etc.  The main negative is that there aren't as many good places to eat down there as I'd like (though that is improving) and the problem with public transit.  But I do continue to look.

and what's wrong with Cleveland Hts., Shaker Hts. as they have wonderful communities with excellent services and schools AND good public transporation.

I'd just prefer not to live there, I'm sorry that's not sufficient explanation for you.  My mother lived in Shaker for 1.5 years and visiting her was not fun (I stayed with her when on breaks from college).  She hated it there.  Her neighbors were really old people who complained about every little noise and her car got broken into twice.  Neither of us felt comfortable out walking.  I'm sorry if you don't like it that that's my opinion, but that's how I feel. I *just* went to Shaker Sq for dinner with my extended family last month when they were in for the holidays and when I went back to the car to get something, TWO different people bothered me.  I don't like getting hit on ("hey baby") or have someone say "mmm, mmm" just because I'm walking to my car to get something out of it, let alone taking a walk after work at night. 

 

Schools are n/a for me as we don't have any kids.

^The perception of being safe and unsafe are usually exaggerated heavily in the opposite direction of reality.  But that's your issue.  Anyways, back to the transit topic...

It's the "chicken and the egg," get better service to your suburb, or move to a better served area.  What's more likely?

If Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway are too "dangerous," what about Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Lakewood, Downtown, Rocky River, etc, etc, etc...

 

I would not live in CleHts or Shaker, nor downtown.  I lived in Lakewood for a long time and have zero desire to ever live there again, it's just got problems that for me are not desirable.  I do like the west suburbs a lot (RR, Westlake, even N.O.) and have been trying to move back ever since I had to leave to move to MH where the rent is cheaper after I got laid off back in 2003, but cannot find anything suitable in my price range.  Every place I look at is smaller, has less amenities, etc.  I mean, where I live I have two things that are very, very important to me.  A gas stove (I am an avid home cook) and FREE HEAT.  Trying to find another place even with a gas stove has proved pretty impossible, but finding the combination of those two things is nearly impossible.  We have a beautiful lake we can walk around in the nicer weather months which houses a variety of birds and there is beautiful landscaping. We have a free, decent fitness room, a party room you can rent (which I have taken advantage of as my apt is too small to entertain), free, GOOD 24-hour maintenance, carpet cleanings, I just got a new kitchen floor just because I asked, etc.  The main negative is that there aren't as many good places to eat down there as I'd like (though that is improving) and the problem with public transit.  But I do continue to look.

 

Well, I don't know what to tell you except that you aren't going to get better bus service on weekdays or on St. Patrick's Day in Middleburgh Heights or Maple Heights.

Anyways...  The comment board on cleveland.com following the "RTA posts 5th year of higher ridership" is just nausiating.  Yet I read every comment.

I'd just prefer not to live there, I'm sorry that's not sufficient explanation for you.  My mother lived in Shaker for 1.5 years and visiting her was not fun (I stayed with her when on breaks from college).  She hated it there.  Her neighbors were really old people who complained about every little noise and her car got broken into twice.  Neither of us felt comfortable out walking.  I'm sorry if you don't like it that that's my opinion, but that's how I feel. I *just* went to Shaker Sq for dinner with my extended family last month when they were in for the holidays and when I went back to the car to get something, TWO different people bothered me.  I don't like getting hit on ("hey baby") or have someone say "mmm, mmm" just because I'm walking to my car to get something out of it, let alone taking a walk after work at night. 

 

Schools are n/a for me as we don't have any kids.

 

Where in shaker was this?  you have a right to your opinion but I can't believe that an incident on one street would affect you so much.  I grew up in Shaker and wouldn't move back, but for different reasons.

 

Shaker Square, where I currently live, is a walking neighborhood so people are always out.  You went to your car and two people "bothered" you?  What exactly is "bothering" you?  I'm not questioning you, just trying to understand your point of view.

Look MyTwoSense, obviously you are not a woman and all I can tell you is women have different experiences than men.  The examples I cited in my last post are EXACTLY what happened to me.  This is not the only time in the history of my visits to Shaker that this has happened, I don't form opinions off of one visit to one street.  And FYI it was right on the square, near the RTA stop.