Eparabola, just because your physically able to walk, have you thought about those that can't physically walk or those with handicaps (sometimes not visible) that need and depend on this trolley service?

 

he goodwill that can be gained from that can't necessarily be measured in dollars.

 

AMEN TO THAT!

"Eparabola, just because your physically able to walk, have you thought about those that can't physically walk or those with handicaps (sometimes not visible) that need and depend on this trolley service?"

 

I realize some people may need it due to disabilities, but I doubt this was a major factor for this service's inception.  Besides, how many handicapped people are we talking about - a couple percent of the vehicle's occupants?(complete guess)   

 

 

Eparabola, just because your physically able to walk, have you thought about those that can't physically walk or those with handicaps (sometimes not visible) that need and depend on this trolley service?

 

he goodwill that can be gained from that can't necessarily be measured in dollars.

 

AMEN TO THAT!

 

I don't even think it has anything to do with physical limitations... I believe it's 1.2 miles from my office (East of 9th) into the WHD.  I walk a LOT.  But it's just not practical for me to trapse all the way across downtown just to grab something to eat or hit constantino's over a lunch break.  The trolley's open up ALL of downtown to your disposal.

The trolley, for me, means sometimes meeting a friend in the Warehouse District for lunch instead of eating at my desk in Playhouse Square. Because of the limited options over there, going out to lunch is a little boring.

 

I have occasionally taken an extended lunch and gone to the Jake as well when the Indians are playing a nooner. $8 ticket and $4 hotdog is not as filling, but a great lunchtime experience.

We'd all like the bus to be there when we're at the stop, or within five minutes, WHENEVER that five minutes may be and WHEREVER that stop may be, that is not an economically realistic view of ANY public transportation system.

 

Hey now, don't sell the HealthLine short!  The frequency of service is one of the most appealing aspects there!  But your main point stands.  Increased frequency is a lot more expensive to RTA than increased capacity.  I'm actually really excited to see the new articulated buses in action.  Something so cool about them.

Never mind the price of gasoline, has anyone seen what has happened to the price of diesel fuel lately? While we don't pay retail price, it's enough to say that the price we do pay is substantially higher than what was originally budgeted.

 

At one point early on in project design, I recall that RTA was considering using trolley buses for the ECP.  I wonder if the outcome of the vehicle type analysis would have been different had the planners knew then what we know now about fuel prices.

Oh, and one more thing.  I'm sure a lot of people here will disagree with me, but the free trolleys driving around Cleveland.  They are nice enough when it's snowy, but to me, they are unnecessary, add to traffic congestion, probably a bit wasteful of gas, and probably can't save someone more than 6 or 7 minutes.  Just a bit of a stream of consciousness moment here, not looking to get into a major argument or anything

 

There are about 4,000 people a day who would respectfully disagree with you. When the old loop system stopped, about 700 persons a day were riding them. Now, the trolleys carry up to 4,000 passengers on some days. The merchants like them, the customers like them, and they present a positive view of public transit to those who have never tried it. You are welcome to your opinion, but in reality, I do not believe anything will change in the future.

At one point early on in project design, I recall that RTA was considering using trolley buses for the ECP.  I wonder if the outcome of the vehicle type analysis would have been different had the planners knew then what we know now about fuel prices.

 

The former idea would have required stringing up electrical lines all along Euclid Ave. When RTA voted to go with BRT instead, it reduced the project cost by $33 million and removed lots of visual pollution.

 

I am told the RTVs need diesel fuel to reach 15 mph, and then the electric motors kick in.

Oh, and one more thing.  I'm sure a lot of people here will disagree with me, but the free trolleys driving around Cleveland.  They are nice enough when it's snowy, but to me, they are unnecessary, add to traffic congestion, probably a bit wasteful of gas, and probably can't save someone more than 6 or 7 minutes.  Just a bit of a stream of consciousness moment here, not looking to get into a major argument or anything

 

There are about 4,000 people a day who would respectfully disagree with you. When the old loop system stopped, about 700 persons a day were riding them. Now, the trolleys carry up to 4,000 passengers on some days. The merchants like them, the customers like them, and they present a positive view of public transit to those who have never tried it. You are welcome to your opinion, but in reality, I do not believe anything will change in the future.

 

700 wow?  who knew, but you of course.  The 30 street loop was so bad back in the day.  that was a waste of a bus!

1). Has there been any recent, internal discussions for extending the Green Line through Gates Mills (like it was supposed to originally).  The way gas prices are rising, I can see some discussion in rail extension since a lot of East Siders are likely looking for alternatives.

 

2). What kind of ceremony can we expect with the completion of the Euclid Corridor Project?

 

3). Is there any potential rail extension to better connect the red line with Little Italy? 

 

4). Any chance the trains will be wireless in the near future or is that way outside your purview?

 

5). It's a little strange that passes cost $1.75 each way but $4.00 for an All-Day Pass (which for most people is probably only used twice a day and thus $.50 more expensive).  At least to me, this is backwards, as I would imagine RTA wants people using these cards rather than clunking $1.75 twice a day (for time and aesthetic reasons).  The pricing difference gives most people incentive to not buy the cards (why waste $.50), which often results in long lines at Tower City.  This is sort of like backwards price discrimination...

 

1. (I am repeating what I recall from many years ago. My memory sometimes heads south on me, and I am in error, I apologize). For many years, RTA owned land immediately east of the end of the Green Line. It was leased to the city, and recreational fields were built there. The feds would never pay for a transit agency to remove recreational lands for transit, so the land, in essence, became worthless to RTA. Several years ago, it was sold to Shaker. There is a press release on that, I believe, in our on-line archives. So, the short answer to your question is...NO.

 

2. Think BIG -- several days, multiple audiences, something for everyone.

 

3. Eventually, the station at Euclid Avenue and East 120 will be moved.

 

4. There has never been any discussion (that I am aware of) about wireless trains. There has been discussion about adding WiFi service, if that is what you mean.

 

5. Our research shows the average person used the All-Day Pass three or more times a day, so even at $4, it is still a bargain, and remains very popular.

 

3. Eventually, the station at Euclid Avenue and East 120 will be moved.

 

 

Eparabola, here's a link to a some "light" reading on potential future plans for E 120:

 

http://www.riderta.com/majorprojects/e120.asp

 

Pay particular attention to the area Master Plan (a 15MB document); as you can see from even the preliminary work presented, tie-in to Mayfield/Little Italy and establishment of the station as a destination, rather than just a facility, is of a very high priority.

got it. Thanks.

I am off for three days to get my daughter married off. See you next month.

Congrats Jerry! Hope she meets someone nice!  :-D

I am off for three days to get my daughter married off. See you next month.

Congrats! 

I don't see an electronic version of this at ODOT District 12's website, so I'll retype here the fax I received...

_______________

 

ODOT partners with local transit to implement local Bus-on-Shoulder program

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) has partnered with local transit agencies, Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (RTA) and Laketran, to implement the Bus-on-Shoulder program along the highly traveled I-90 corridor in eastern Cuyahoga and portions of Lake County.

 

Member of the media are invited to kick-off the implementation of the program with a special ride-along on Friday, May 30 at 2:15 p.m.

 

An RTA coach will pick-up riders at promptly 2:15 p.m. at the RTA Main Office at 1240 W. 6th Street, Cleveland, Ohio.

 

The Bus-on-Shoulder program has been implemented successfully in both Columbus and Cincinnati with the goal of fully utilizing the current capacity of the urban highway system and encouraging the use of public transit on high congestion corridors.

 

RTA and Laketran buses will utilize the right shoulder of I-90 eastbound between E. 152nd Street and Babbit Road and I-90 westbound between Lloyd Road and Lakeshore Boulevard and E. 55th Street and South Marginal.

 

Buses are encouraged to utilize the wide shoulder in these areas during congested periods and may not exceed the speed of traffic by more than 15 miles-per-hour and may not exceed speeds of over 35 miles-per-hour.

 

Only RTA and Laketran buses and emergency vehicles will be permitted to use the shoulder; buses will yield to emergency vehicles. Bus operators who drive this corridor are being trained to safely use the shoulders.

 

"We cannot build our way out of congestion," said Bonita Teeuwen, ODOT District 12 Deputy Director. "This program truly utilizes the capacity of our existing system while reducing congestion and increasing safety on our highways."

 

"We really pleased to have a part in this initiative as we believe that it will allow us to continue to provide first class service to our nearly 58 million customers," said Joe Calabrese, RTA CEO & General Manager.

 

###

Combined two very large threads about Greater Cleveland RTA general news into a single thread. Each thread had more than 30 pages of messages. IMHO, it's best to have all the general transit news in Cleveland in one place.

ooh!  This reminds me of a question I've been wanting to ask ever since I started riding the train.

 

Ok at the front of each car there is a rectangular piece of metal screwed into the wall.  It has a speaker like part at the top with a bunch of little holes in a circle.  Below that is a piece of plastic, the kind that might be over some kind of red LED light because the area behind the plastic is red colored.  It is flush with the metal.  There is something above or on this that basically says if you have some kind of problem and need to contact the operator to "press the button" to speak to the person.  But THERE IS NO BUTTON.  The red thing is clearly not a button, it doesn't stick out and there is nothing to press.  I wondered if maybe it was some high tech fingerprint reader or something so that if you touched it, it would do something, but obviously I'm not going to try that out just for fun.

 

Can you explain this?

Any answer to this question available?

Combined two very large threads about Greater Cleveland RTA general news into a single thread. Each thread had more than 30 pages of messages. IMHO, it's best to have all the general transit news in Cleveland in one place.

I thought the RTA-Hello thread was pretty quaint.  In my job, the boss wants us to actively collect user input.  In fact, he orders us to collect user input.  And he puts it on the job performance review.

How come the station-call strips in the rehabbed Blue/Green line trains don't work?  Will they be fixed?

 

I'm a little confused by this statement. I was on one of the rehabbed Blue Line trains last night, and the stop request strips appeared to be functioning fine. While the single bell they put out might sometimes be lost in the other noise of the vehicle (track noise, passenger conversations, the  door closing tone, the horn, etc...), and there is no visual cue in the passenger compartment when it has been pressed, I believe there is an indicator on the operator's control panel that indicates when the strip has been pushed.

 

What I'm trying to say is that this doesn't seem to be a systemic problem. Of course, if you know of a particular car that is exhibiting a flaw, please note the vehicle number and let us know. All operators are supposed to report such items on defect cards, but I'd rather we receive two reports about the same problem than no reports.

ooh!  This reminds me of a question I've been wanting to ask ever since I started riding the train.

 

Ok at the front of each car there is a rectangular piece of metal screwed into the wall.  It has a speaker like part at the top with a bunch of little holes in a circle.  Below that is a piece of plastic, the kind that might be over some kind of red LED light because the area behind the plastic is red colored.  It is flush with the metal.  There is something above or on this that basically says if you have some kind of problem and need to contact the operator to "press the button" to speak to the person.  But THERE IS NO BUTTON.  The red thing is clearly not a button, it doesn't stick out and there is nothing to press.  I wondered if maybe it was some high tech fingerprint reader or something so that if you touched it, it would do something, but obviously I'm not going to try that out just for fun.

 

Can you explain this?

Any answer to this question available?

 

I think this question might have gotten overlooked in Jerry's vacation catch-up (and he was a bit distracted yesterday, for reasons already mentioned :-) ). I'll make sure this gets looked into and an answer posted.

How come the station-call strips in the rehabbed Blue/Green line trains don't work?  Will they be fixed?

 

I'm a little confused by this statement. I was on one of the rehabbed Blue Line trains last night, and the stop request strips appeared to be functioning fine. While the single bell they put out might sometimes be lost in the other noise of the vehicle (track noise, passenger conversations, the  door closing tone, the horn, etc...), and there is no visual cue in the passenger compartment when it has been pressed, I believe there is an indicator on the operator's control panel that indicates when the strip has been pushed.

 

What I'm trying to say is that this doesn't seem to be a systemic problem. Of course, if you know of a particular car that is exhibiting a flaw, please note the vehicle number and let us know. All operators are supposed to report such items on defect cards, but I'd rather we receive two reports about the same problem than no reports.

 

Good.  It might just be a few cars.  When it happened to me, I reported the problem on a Customer Service Communications Report.  I'll continue to do the same if I encounter this again.

In the last few days I've notice more 1 car trains that have been coupled with other 1 car trains (operator areas at both ends of a single car, meaining 4 areas on a 2 car train)

 

it seems like the 100 series cars have operator areas at both ends of single cars, and the 300 series has an operator area at only 1 end, and is usually coupled with another 300 series train.

 

can anyone provide a breakdown of how the heavy rail fleet is broken down?  and, does this occur more frequently and I just haven't noticed it, or are some of the 300 trains out of service?

I hope Jerry or JetDog can answer this.  Has there been any considerations to adding a stop on the 55 Bus at Edgewater Park by going down the exit ramp and then getting right back on?  This wouldn't have to be at rush hour or maybe by request only.  I know the 86 does this by going down the ramps at the airport and then right back on the freeway.

 

Thanks.

I hope Jerry or JetDog can answer this.  Has there been any considerations to adding a stop on the 55 Bus at Edgewater Park by going down the exit ramp and then getting right back on?  This wouldn't have to be at rush hour or maybe by request only.  I know the 86 does this by going down the ramps at the airport and then right back on the freeway.

 

Thanks.

I don't think it can be "by request only".  I assume the passenger may need to get back on the bus later...

I'm a little confused by this statement. I was on one of the rehabbed Blue Line trains last night, and the stop request strips appeared to be functioning fine. While the single bell they put out might sometimes be lost in the other noise of the vehicle (track noise, passenger conversations, the  door closing tone, the horn, etc...), and there is no visual cue in the passenger compartment when it has been pressed, I believe there is an indicator on the operator's control panel that indicates when the strip has been pushed.

 

What I'm trying to say is that this doesn't seem to be a systemic problem. Of course, if you know of a particular car that is exhibiting a flaw, please note the vehicle number and let us know. All operators are supposed to report such items on defect cards, but I'd rather we receive two reports about the same problem than no reports.

 

In point of fact, it's been every rehabilitated car I've ridden but one -- and I've ridden quite a few.  I've reported this in the past, yet I have no idea the success of my call -- after the 1st of the year.  All I know is the situation has not improved since even though, of course, many more cars have been rehabilitated, which in itself is a good thing.

This is in response to an earlier question about three-car trains on the Red Line. Our operations people said:

 

"We can't currently run 3-car trains on the Red Line, as some stations are too short. As we reconstruct stations, all are being built to a three-car standard. There is a significant cost of operating unnecessary cars. In addition to the power consumption, we would require twice as much car, track, and overhead maintenance. Unlike on buses, where the largest cost component is the operator, the mileage component on rail is quite high."

 

I don't understand. The old stations used to accommodate three-car trains, including of the Tokyu cars now operating on the Red Line. I believe the last time I saw a three-car train of Tokyu cars was in the late 1980s. What is preventing the older stations from accomodating three-car trains?

Here is your chance to talk directly to RTA Media Relations Manager Chad Self. From 5-6 p.m. today (Monday, June 2), he will be chatting and answering questions on myfoxcleveland.com. Go to the site and the link should be apparent. TV-8 is airing a story tonight on "buses on shoulders" -- a project that starts today, and Chad has promised to "shoulder" the responsibility of answering your questions.

If you go right now to www.myfoxcleveland.com, there is a transit-related poll in the far right column.

 

Is it safe to operate buses on shoulders? 50 percent say No.  :police:

 

Please log on and voice your opinion. :wave:

Now 57 percent say it's not safe.

I don't understand. The old stations used to accommodate three-car trains, including of the Tokyu cars now operating on the Red Line. I believe the last time I saw a three-car train of Tokyu cars was in the late 1980s. What is preventing the older stations from accomodating three-car trains?

 

We know Quincy/E. 105 is currently long enough for only 1-car but is being expanded... And after the reconfiguration of E. 55, moving the Blue/Green (LRV) low center platform to the outer ends of the Red Line high platforms, essentially cannibalizing a portion of the HRV area, E. 55 may now also be too short for a 3-car Tokyu...

 

Cleveland in film certainly is tangible evidence that 3-cars used to run regularly... The film "Light of Day" (set in Cleveland starring Michael J. Fox and Joan Jett in the 80's) ended a montage with a Red Line shot of a 3-car, Red Line train streaking toward the camera -- though it was an evening/night shot, I'm pretty sure they were (then spanking new) Tokyu's.  We also know the old “Airporters” ran in 3s… weren’t those huge cars even longer than the Tokyu’s?  If not, they had to be at least as long…

 

Movie shots don't necessarily mean anything. The Rob Lowe movie "Proximity" from earlier this decade had a chase scene involving a 3-car Red Line train. But I know what you mean -- if I recall the "Light of Day" was just someone going around the city with a camera to get "settings" views.

Not quite sure where to put this, so I'll try here.  Was listening to NPR station KCRW here in LA today and they have a show which originates from the KCRW studios called "To The Point".  The show may be syndicated.  The show today was about future urban planning as a result of high gas prices and light rail came into the discussion.  One of the commentators was from the Brookings Institution and cited Cleveland and Cincy as cities which were not planning properly and would get left behind.  He cited cities such as Dever, Dallas and Houston as cities which were doing proper planning.  I don't know too much about the subject, but I thought I would let others who are knowledgeable know what is being said about Ohio cities in a national forum.  I'm sure you can go to KCRW's websight and listen to the program segment from today.  I would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this.  Thanks.

Perhaps those cities are more regionalized than us?  I mean, we're so damn sprawled out it's impossible for RTA to be everywhere.

*We're* sprawled compared to Dallas and Houston???

Perhaps those cities are more regionalized than us?  I mean, we're so damn sprawled out it's impossible for RTA to be everywhere.

 

You can't be serious?

 

I think that person might mean we might get left behind because were havent EXPANDED rail.  Thats how i'll take this.

In terms of the number if suburbs surrounding m Cleveland prime, then maybe. I dont know. What else would that show be talking about

I believe the commentator was talking about properly planning and expanding rail.  As I said, anyone can listen by going to the websight.

All three cities (Denver, Dallas and Houston) are expanding rail, but I don't understand at all why the Brookings Institution would include Houston in a discussion of sound urban planning. I partially question why Dallas was included, though they do have a more active TOD planning component in their transit investment strategy. Denver, on the other hand, is quite a bit farther ahead in their aggressiveness on transit and TOD investments. Denver also has more work to do to create higher density, walkable and transit-supportive neighborhoods compared with other mid-level cities like Cleveland and Cincinnati. Denver's population density is just 3,617 people per square mile, while Cincinnati's is 4,249 and Cleveland's is 6,167.

 

He may be referring to Denver's increasing population density, while Cincinnati's and Cleveland's are decreasing. If that's the reason, that has more to do with the economic health of each region. A healthy economy, when community leaders are engaged, allows leaders to more easily mold a physical urban form. There are more resources available and more enthusiasm to positively shape a city when it's growing in population and wealth than in one that's static or shrinking.

 

But I do agree that if community leaders are engaged anywhere, even in a static or shrinking city, they can reshape a city in a positive way.

I'm glad Sunbelt cities are finally getting serious about rail transit.  But I see this as bolting the barn door after the horse has escaped: these cities sprawled along freeway development and, then, are building light rail with long routes designed to chase the the sprawl... and then Brookings holds them up as models?... And no, for whatever sprawl Cleveland has it's nowhere near what Sunbelt cities have.  Cleveland and most older NE/Midwest cities were developed along rail transit lines: streetcars, interurbans, rapid transit and commuter rail.  That the "fad" of urban rail has finally manifested in these towns is nice, but doesn't make them admirable.  Do they have the Shaker Squares?  Coventry's?  Ohio City's? etc...

JMasek, just a quick comment about the customer service RTA phone line.  Last night after a particularly rough ride on the 6 coming home, I tried to leave a message about the driver (who wasn't stopping at stops when people had requested them & when people were waiting there.  When he would, he'd stop about three feet from the platform so the family with the stroller almost killed all their kids getting out), and everytime I tried to leave a message (four times), I was told that it did not detect any input - I was almost yelling at the end so that it could hear me (and I was inside my apartment by that time).  Could it just be looked into as to improving that?  Thanks. 

This is from RTA rail officials, in response to an earlier question posted here.

 

"The 'Passenger Signal' strips on all light-rail vehicles are working. During peak ridership hours, operators may opt to disable the 'Passenger Signal' due to multiple requests to stop at the next station. Operators make all stops at stations during that time."

 

JMasek, just a quick comment about the customer service RTA phone line. Last night after a particularly rough ride on the 6 coming home, I tried to leave a message about the driver (who wasn't stopping at stops when people had requested them & when people were waiting there. When he would, he'd stop about three feet from the platform so the family with the stroller almost killed all their kids getting out), and everytime I tried to leave a message (four times), I was told that it did not detect any input - I was almost yelling at the end so that it could hear me (and I was inside my apartment by that time). Could it just be looked into as to improving that? Thanks.

 

I am forwarding your comment to the person who supervises the telephone center. Thanks for sharing this with us. If you have specific information on the incident, please it directly to me at [email protected], and I will submit it.

Do you remember the NOACA Commuter Rail study of some years ago? I went to the Kent meeting. They had some sample possible schedules. There were none to be handed out by NOACA. They kept them to themselves I guess. Does anyone have a reprint they can post? I have tried to find it with no luck. Thanks

This is from RTA rail officials, in response to an earlier question posted here.

 

"The 'Passenger Signal' strips on all light-rail vehicles are working. During peak ridership hours, operators may opt to disable the 'Passenger Signal' due to multiple requests to stop at the next station. Operators make all stops at stations during that time."

 

Thanks Jerry.

 

I didn't know drivers can disable the strips.  Actually, my biggest problem has been during off peak times when they're not working.  Drivers speed through stops where no one (apparently) wants to get off and no one wants to board.  When the strips don't work at these times, it's maddening because if you don't rise from your seat and position yourself by the door in time, the driver will fly by your stop.  There've been times at stops along Shaker and Van Aken at night where driver's will miss stops even when someone's standing in the door -- the driver doesn't even look up (guess they're hell bent on getting off shift)...

 

... I'll have to start reporting drivers who do this.

 

mrniles, the schedules are in reports saved as PDFs. They cannot be "posted" here but would have to be hosted somewhere else. Web links to those host sites could be posted here, however. But I just don't have the time to do that right now. Maybe sometime over the weekend.

 

Having said all that, this thread isn't the appropriate place to discuss this since RTA isn't directly involved in commuter rail planning anymore. Their planning staff is providing some technical assistance to the West Shore Corridor project since RTA has prior experience in submitting grant proposals to the FTA for Alternatives Analysis funding.

Re: RTA phone service

 

The RTAnswerline is 216-621-9500. It includes many prompts, including an option for Spanish. Listen to the prompts to make the proper selections. One of the options is to select Customer Service line.

 

It may be easier, from 7am-6pm M-F, to call directly to 216-566-5227. The phone line is manned only during those hours, and does not accept voice mail.

 

You can always fill out the online feedback form at:

http://tripplanner.gcrta.org/hiwire?.a=cCustomerComplaint

http://www.riderta.com/PDF/InsideRTA/Insider_6-08.pdf

 

The June issue of Inside RTA has been posted. It contains important information on the June 17 ODOT public hearing.

Has there been any considerations to adding a stop on the 55 Bus at Edgewater Park by going down the exit ramp and then getting right back on? This wouldn't have to be at rush hour or maybe by request only. I know the 86 does this by going down the ramps at the airport and then right back on the freeway.

 

Here is the response from service planner John Palagyi,

 

Riders can access Edgewater Park in two ways:

 

1.  Ride the #55 to Clifton & West Blvd and walk north to the park entrance off of West Blvd.

 

2.  Ride the #26 or #45Y/R to Detroit & W. 65th and walk north on W. 65th and then on the bike path under the Norfolk Southern tracks to reach Edgewater (approx. 0.5 mile walk).

 

Having the #55 use the ramps at Edgewater is not as straight-forward as the #86 using the ramps at Snow. The ramps at Edgewater are laid out differently and are more time-consuming to use. Ridership is lower on the #86 at Snow than it is on the #55 at Edgewater. Thus, more people would be inconvenienced by the #55 exiting/re-entering the Shoreway than are inconvenienced by the #86 doing what it does at Snow. Contrary to what you said, we could not do this "by request only". A driver would never know if a rider was waiting down below to be picked-up, thus all trips within a given time period would have to exit and re-enter the freeway, regardless of whether or not anyone actually wanted to get-on/off at Edgewater.

 

Ultimately, the City of Cleveland's project to convert the Shoreway from a freeway to a boulevard with at-grade intersections will improve access to Edgewater Park for transit riders. Until then, the bus stops at Clifton & West Blvd and Detroit & W. 65th will have to suffice.