I am surprised the article didn't get the message from RTA that they are trying to convey with these route cuts - we don't care if you're uncomfortable, it's cheaper for us to run trains than buses, so drive to a train stop, take the bus and shut your hole or go back to driving or carpooling.

 

I think this is more than a little unfair to RTA for all the reasons we've discussed before.  If people don't like overcrowding, they should complain to their congresspeople and state legislatures.  RTA has to stay in budget, and it can't do that providing high levels of bus service to every outer ring suburban community unless it get more state or federal aid.

OK kids....... :whip:  Everyone calm down.  Better me to say it than MayDay!  :police:

 

---

I'd be interested now that people are using RTA more if we can see more cars on trains?

 

Is it at least be explored.

And you may have no idea if I'd had one knee replacement, one ACL replacement, one MCL replacement, and three knee scopes.....

 

Pope, you're too young to be falling apart like that.  :wink:  Or could these "issues" be a reason why you weren't in the PD's single issue.  hummm?

OK kids....... :whip: Everyone calm down. Better me to say it than MayDay! :police:

 

---

I'd be interested now that people are using RTA more if we can see more cars on trains?

 

Is it at least be explored.

 

I doubt it, because it sounds like the increase in fairbox revenue from the new riders lags the increase in fuel costs that RTA is facing.  It would be worth pointing out the upcoming ODOT public meetings to the 500 people who are complaining that RTA service is inadequate.  If the State of Ohio supported transit at the level that peer states do, we wouldn't be having this problem.

OK kids....... :whip:  Everyone calm down.  Better me to say it than MayDay!  :police:

 

---

I'd be interested now that people are using RTA more if we can see more cars on trains?

 

Is it at least be explored.

 

I doubt it, because it sounds like the increase in fairbox revenue from the new riders lags the increase in fuel costs that RTA is facing.  It would be worth pointing out the upcoming ODOT public meetings to the 500 people who are complaining that RTA service is inadequate.  If the State of Ohio supported transit at the level that peer states do, we wouldn't be having this problem.

 

I'm only asking about rail service.  I know that there is a cost for electricity, but no where what gas is.

^ Well in the overall picture, they still have to cover the increase in gas on the buses.

Oops, my bad.  I misread.  Yeah, that would make sense.

All I'm going to say is this: being gay, I have absolutely nothing to gain by offering a lady my seat on the bus/train. However, on more than one occasion that I've done so - let's just say if I was available/interested, I probably would have had a date. In one case, I offered my seat to a gal obviously younger than I - not only did she graciously accept, another female passenger (about my age) paid me a compliment.

 

So if anyone out there is a single (and LOOKING) heterosexual male who DOESN'T offer your seat to women on a regular basis - there's a reason you're still single. And if we're ever at a forum meet and on the train/bus - guys, you WILL offer your seats to female passengers if it's standing-room-only.

And you may have no idea if I'd had one knee replacement, one ACL replacement, one MCL replacement, and three knee scopes.....

 

Pope, you're too young to be falling apart like that. :wink:

 

It's a good point, except I can usually tell when someone is limping or looks like they are having trouble getting on, and I immediately get up and offer them my seat if i am on the aisle. I have actually had to scold/chide several younger people to make them get up out of the handicapped seats when a blind lady gets on with her DOG.  I mean hello, BLIND, GLASSES, SEEING EYE DOG, GET OUT OF THE SEATS! 

 

Everyone has something wrong with them that we can't see.  Youth has nothing to do with it. It's not about whether or not your torn ACL trumps me not having a colon; if someone looks like they need a seat and you can comfortably do without yours, give them one. 

I am surprised the article didn't get the message from RTA that they are trying to convey with these route cuts - we don't care if you're uncomfortable, it's cheaper for us to run trains than buses, so drive to a train stop, take the bus and shut your hole or go back to driving or carpooling.

 

I think this is more than a little unfair to RTA for all the reasons we've discussed before. If people don't like overcrowding, they should complain to their congresspeople and state legislatures. RTA has to stay in budget, and it can't do that providing high levels of bus service to every outer ring suburban community unless it get more state or federal aid.

 

I *have* complained to my congresspeople thank you.  I complain to them quite a lot and am a regular letter writer to congress, the senate and even Shrub's office.

 

I however maintain my feelings as a suburban passenger that if there is demand for routes, if there are increased passengers, they shouldn't be cutting routes and decreasing frequency of existing routes.  Telling the people who have been waiting 20 minutes in the snow and rain and are soaked and freezing to the bone that they have to stand because of RTA's budget doesn't work for them.  All the riders know is fares are going up and service appears to be decreased.  My point is that if RTA wants to push everyone to the rails because they don't have the budget to satsifactorily serve the areas where there are large groups of customers, they should communicate it better and more widely.  Posting it in the posters section on the buses, handing that out in flyers, etc.

the "Rock"  :lol: has a point.

 

Jerry,

 

Would shifting bus service from "one seat" rides (X to downtown/public Square) to "two seat" (X to rapid Station - transfer to Redline to Downtown/Public Square) be a way to increase and evenly distribute passenger?

 

I mean a "hub and spoke" system might work.  Or maybe alternating.  Bus No. 1 goes downtown, Bus No. 2 & 3 go to the train station, Bus No. 4 goes downtown.

 

 

^^They are cutting routes and frequency because the cost of fuel has gone from 7mil a year to 21 mil a year.  Until they state and federal funding changes i wouldn't direct your anger towards RTA.

^^They are cutting routes and frequency because the cost of fuel has gone from 7mil a year to 21 mil a year.  Until they state and federal funding changes i wouldn't direct your anger towards RTA.

 

Anger?  Me.

I think he meant RocknRoller.  Remember there is an ODOT meeting this coming Tuesday for the public to give input on transportation funding priorities for the state.  If you are upset about service cuts, the best thing you can do is come and tell the people who determine our statewide transportation spending priorities.  Our current state support for public transit is abysmal compared to our peer states, and this is what we reap.  I would tell all the other people on your bus who are upset at having to stand about this as well.

^Exactly.  Thanks.

I would tell all the other people on your bus who are upset at having to stand about this as well.

 

I think this literally is a great idea. Maybe even flyers can be made up?

Well said Mr. X!

 

Now, use your mental telepathy to get those in charge to change the way how are transit systems are funded.

 

 

 

I think he meant RocknRoller. Remember there is an ODOT meeting this coming Tuesday for the public to give input on transportation funding priorities for the state. If you are upset about service cuts, the best thing you can do is come and tell the people who determine our statewide transportation spending priorities. Our current state support for public transit is abysmal compared to our peer states, and this is what we reap. I would tell all the other people on your bus who are upset at having to stand about this as well.

 

I work both jobs Tuesday so unfortunately that's not going to work. And as to the bus people, I quit riding the bus and switched to the train quite awhile ago so I wouldn't have to stand every day unless I wanted to.  And it's not MY job to inform them, it's RTA's.

I'll be doing my best this coming Tuesday!

I'll be doing my best this coming Tuesday!

 

Shave your head and darken your eyebrows.  You be more imposing.

I would tell all the other people on your bus who are upset at having to stand about this as well.

 

I think this literally is a great idea. Maybe even flyers can be made up?

 

We've conducted a bit of an e-mail "carpet bomb" to our e-news subscribers on this very topic, and will likely send out another blast on Monday. Printed flyers will start appearing in buses and trains shortly.

 

Our General Manager is speaking with the Plain Dealer today on this, and I strongly encourage anyone and everyone reading this with a blog or other means of online communication to provide a link to http://www.riderta.com/nu_ridersalerts_list.asp?listingid=1054, which provides full details about Tuesday's meeting.

 

I'll be there, and I hope to find a packed house...

the "Rock" :lol: has a point.

 

Jerry,

 

Would shifting bus service from "one seat" rides (X to downtown/public Square) to "two seat" (X to rapid Station - transfer to Redline to Downtown/Public Square) be a way to increase and evenly distribute passenger?

 

I mean a "hub and spoke" system might work. Or maybe alternating. Bus No. 1 goes downtown, Bus No. 2 & 3 go to the train station, Bus No. 4 goes downtown.

 

 

 

Great idea!  A bus from say Strongsville only travels to Brookpark and back instead of all the way downtown.

^That is largely how the Edmonton System Is structured, many of the routes in the NE and SW of the City only go to their LRT....

And it's not MY job to inform them, it's RTA's.

 

That's a horrible reason!! ODOT has heard it a million times from RTA. If they don't hear it from the everyday people who are affected by poor funding of transit and they are hearing it from people who are affected by the insufficient funding of roads (and they are hearing it very loudly from them), then why should ODOT care about funding transit?

 

Ever hear the cliche:  the squeaky wheel gets the grease??

And it's not MY job to inform them, it's RTA's.

 

That's a horrible reason!! ODOT has heard it a million times from RTA. If they don't hear it from the everyday people who are affected by poor funding of transit and they are hearing it from people who are affected by the insufficient funding of roads (and they are hearing it very loudly from them), then why should ODOT care about funding transit?

 

Ever hear the cliche: the squeaky wheel gets the grease??

 

Ever hear the phrase, "Pick your battles?"  I have many other battles I regularly fight that are very important to me.  You can't give a dollar to every homeless person you see or you won't have any dollars. I solved my own problem by learning what would be a better choice than the bus.  I DO try to help people understand RTA in many other ways but I'm sorry, standing around verbally conversing with my fellow passengers about what they do and don't do at RTA is not my position, I am not their employee, PR person or professional advocate.  In person or online nearly every day I explain something to someone about RTA.  For example, on Trip Advisor when people bash it to visitors who inquire about it, I explain that it's not that it sucks, but it's designed for X,Y and Z and if you're not XYZ it's just not as user friendly.  I regularly encourage my friends and family to take it if it's at all feasible.  My own husband is actively looking for a job downtown so he can start taking it instead of driving since it's not feasible where he works now. 

 

It is not my job to explain to my fellow passengers why RTA does this, that or the other thing.  I am a rider, not their shill.  If you want to shill for them, that is your choice and your right.  Just because you utilize the service doesn't mean you should act as their free PR machine.

^^I think she meant that it's not her job to inform other busriders, not that she shouldn't be b!tching to ODOT.

 

Great idea!  A bus from say Strongsville only travels to Brookpark and back instead of all the way downtown.

 

The problem with our rapid system is that it has only the one downtown stop, unlike the buses which have several.  So by feeding commuter buses to rapid stations, you are really converting a one-seat to a three-seat rider for people who don't work right near Public Square.  Maybe people would be OK with this during the warm weather months though.

^I think she meant that it's not her job to inform other busriders, not that she shouldn't be b!tching to ODOT.

 

Great idea!  A bus from say Strongsville only travels to Brookpark and back instead of all the way downtown.

 

The problem with our rapid system is that it has only the one downtown stop, unlike the buses which have several.  So by feeding commuter buses to rapid stations, you are really converting a one-seat to a three-seat rider for people who don't work right near Public Square.  Maybe people would be OK with this during the warm weather months though.

 

Sorry but, I see your point, but using "winter" is just another excuse.  We need to change people's habits.

 

If that is the case, revise the loop system downtown to provide more coverage.

Has RTA ever considered expanding Trolley service to evenings and weekends (or some other kind of circulator)?  I was looking at the system map the other day, and it didn't look like there were any good routes to get from district to district besides the trolleys.

^I think she meant that it's not her job to inform other busriders, not that she shouldn't be b!tching to ODOT.

 

Great idea! A bus from say Strongsville only travels to Brookpark and back instead of all the way downtown.

 

The problem with our rapid system is that it has only the one downtown stop, unlike the buses which have several. So by feeding commuter buses to rapid stations, you are really converting a one-seat to a three-seat rider for people who don't work right near Public Square. Maybe people would be OK with this during the warm weather months though.

 

Sorry but, I see your point, but using "winter" is just another excuse. We need to change people's habits.

 

If that is the case, revise the loop system downtown to provide more coverage.

 

I think it's a legitimate complaint and that the loop system could be revised/expanded so it was less of an issue.  If I worked where my old job was instead of where I work now, I probably would still be taking the bus as it's just too far to walk in some of our really nasty weather.  Remember also that (as far as I can tell) the majority of riders are women and women do not like to get completely soaked or freeze their a**es off and their hair ruined because they have to walk 4 blocks out of the train station, it literally is definitely enough impetus for them to not take the train.  I don't think men truly understand what the difference in women's clothing/outfits and what they carry during the day can add in terms of making walking around a PITA.  men shove a wallet in their pants and carry an iPod and are done.  Women are in skirts and lighter weight clothes that get cold a lot quicker, have purses, nice shoes to change into, etc. 

Has RTA ever considered expanding Trolley service to evenings and weekends (or some other kind of circulator)? I was looking at the system map the other day, and it didn't look like there were any good routes to get from district to district besides the trolleys.

 

I think trolley service is now open till 11, which isn't bad... I'm hoping that as the downtown residential population continues to expand (or subsidies are drastically increased) that weekend service may at some point be in the cards.

 

I think trolley service is now open till 11, which isn't bad... I'm hoping that as the downtown residential population continues to expand (or subsidies are drastically increased) that weekend service may at some point be in the cards.

 

Thanks!  Fingers crossed for increased downtown circulation of some sort eventually :).  I'd rather take RTA than a cab any day of the week..... Of course it's not always that easy to hail a cab in Cleveland either.  Nonetheless, free Trolleys are nice, but I would totally pay for a ride if that's what it took for them to expand to weekends.

Sorry but, I see your point, but using "winter" is just another excuse.  We need to change people's habits.

 

If that is the case, revise the loop system downtown to provide more coverage.

 

You're missing the point.  I think the trolley service is great for lots of reasons, in particular for people who live downtown or are walking to close in rapid stations.  But if we are asking people to take a bus, to a rapid, to a trolley, in order to get to their office....that's a three seat ride and that just isn't terribly convenient no matter how good the downtown loop coverage is.

 

To sound like a broken record, the Dual Hub would have solved all of these problems by adding additional downtown stops enabling an incredibly wide array of one or two-seat rides.

^I think she meant that it's not her job to inform other busriders, not that she shouldn't be b!tching to ODOT.

 

Great idea!  A bus from say Strongsville only travels to Brookpark and back instead of all the way downtown.

 

The problem with our rapid system is that it has only the one downtown stop, unlike the buses which have several.  So by feeding commuter buses to rapid stations, you are really converting a one-seat to a three-seat rider for people who don't work right near Public Square.  Maybe people would be OK with this during the warm weather months though.

 

Sorry but, I see your point, but using "winter" is just another excuse.  We need to change people's habits.

 

If that is the case, revise the loop system downtown to provide more coverage.

 

I think it's a legitimate complaint and that the loop system could be revised/expanded so it was less of an issue.  If I worked where my old job was instead of where I work now, I probably would still be taking the bus as it's just too far to walk in some of our really nasty weather.  Remember also that (as far as I can tell) the majority of riders are women and women do not like to get completely soaked or freeze their a**es off and their hair ruined because they have to walk 4 blocks out of the train station, it literally is definitely enough impetus for them to not take the train.  I don't think men truly understand what the difference in women's clothing/outfits and what they carry during the day can add in terms of making walking around a PITA.  men shove a wallet in their pants and carry an iPod and are done.  Women are in skirts and lighter weight clothes that get cold a lot quicker, have purses, nice shoes to change into, etc. 

 

I carry a big old man bag.  I have an over coat, a hat, gloves or some sort of accessory, etc..  So stop complaining!  :-D

The bottom line: we know the buses are overcrowded, but there is no  money for more service. If we put out enough service to respond to all complaints, RTA would go bankrupt. Maintaining fiscal integrity has its advantages...we're staying in business.

 

As far as communicating this to riders, we have been saying it repeatedly for years, to both riders and to legislators. Only now, with gas at $4 a gallon, are some people starting to listen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has RTA ever considered expanding Trolley service to evenings and weekends (or some other kind of circulator)? I was looking at the system map the other day, and it didn't look like there were any good routes to get from district to district besides the trolleys.

 

Expanding service costs money. Right now, there is no money. The E-Line service operates until 11pm to respond to issues from CSU. Of course, others use it as well. On rare weekends for special events, RTA has operated trolley service.

Has RTA ever considered expanding Trolley service to evenings and weekends (or some other kind of circulator)? I was looking at the system map the other day, and it didn't look like there were any good routes to get from district to district besides the trolleys.

 

Expanding service costs money. Right now, there is no money. The E-Line service operates until 11pm to respond to issues from CSU. Of course, others use it as well. On rare weekends for special events, RTA has operated trolley service.

 

What about paid service for weekends?

thanks Jerry.

 

I hope you don't think we're being pessimist or complainers, just trying to come up with solutions.

May I share a personal viewpoint?

 

RTA is owned by the taxpayers. They own City Hall, they own the schools and they a lot of other things. It is our responsibility to take care of those things we own. We who work in government were delegated the responsibility to care for it for you, but that does not mean you are off the hook. Working to improve RTA, or City Hall, or the schools, is everyone's responsibility.

 

How many citizens attend a city council meeting, a school board meeting, or an RTA Board meeting? How many people skip over government-related news in the newspaper and jump right to the sports page? How many people even pass on their right to vote?

 

I may be preaching to the choir here, but from where I sit (a former government reporter with now 20 experience in three levels of government), the system would be a lot better if more people truly cared. Whining is not caring...whining is reacting when you are upset with something.

 

Caring means taking the time to really understand why things are the way they area, and working within the system to make meaningful changes.

 

So when I read someone say "it's not my job to inform them", my face becomes flush, my hair stands straight, and I say with conviction..."Yes, sir, it is."

thanks Jerry.

 

I hope you don't think we're being pessimist or complainers, just trying to come up with solutions.

 

^ Agreed.

Rocknroller, I thought you were talking about complaining ODOT.

 

This is just me, but I don't have an opinion on a lot of things, mostly just on urban, transportation and energy issues for which I believe I've earned an opinion. When I have an opinion, it means I care about something to learn about it, and so I'm going to share that opinion with others. I might even try to convince them to agree with me. ;)

 

There are so many things I don't have an opinion on, whether it's medical ethics issues, the size of the universe, the politics of X,Y & Z candidates, or computer technology, etc. etc.

 

That's just the way I was built.

Didn't we have street cars and trackless electric trolleys at one time?  Bet ya wish ya had em now!  :lol:

 

My company is doing its thing for the cause.  Four of the eight people on my team work at home.  That saves gas, money, and the overcrowded bus ride.

 

See y'all soon.  I have to catch the interurban :wave:

Rocknroller, I thought you were talking about complaining ODOT.

 

 

No, I wasn't.

Yep, I know that now.

Yep, I know that now.

 

You oughta know me better than that by now!  :) I wish I could come on Tuesday, I hope those who can go will represent!

Sorry to return to a couple topics from past pages, but here goes:

 

1) I'm on standing room only buses a few times/week.  In many of these cases, there are teenagers/young men/women who decide that it's there right to take up two seats, even when there are men/women standing in the aisles next to them.  Rarely do I see older men/women take the liberty to hog an entire seat, but even more rarely, do I see someone ask them to scoot over and make room for another rider.  Another issue is that I've noticed more and more strollers on the buses lately.  I was on a rush-hour #6 the other day and there were literally 4 strollers on the bus.  These riders are required to fold down their strollers and carry their kid(s) to a seat, which is no small feat, especially in the case of a (usually) single mom with multiple kids in tow... on a moving bus no less!  I am happy to say that people do jump out of their seats to help these riders, but man, it's got to be tough getting on the bus like that.  This is no one's fault, but more people are using the bus more of the time and it's only going to get worse before it gets any better.

 

2) If the RTA is so concerned about every penny, they really need to figure out their fare collection.  I've brought this up several times before, but yesterday was another case in point.  20+ riders were waiting at the Cedar/University Red Line station yesterday after Parade the Circle, including a wheelchair passenger, 3 bikes and 2 strollers.  Everyone knows the scenario... a train pulls up with two cars and only the front door opens.  The entire process of boarding took about 5 minutes and no one paid a fare.  Why the driver would force everyone through the front door and NOT collect a fare is beyond me, but that's what happened.  THEN (here's the kicker), after everyone had boarded this way, the driver opened all doors, all cars to let on the last two bikes who had just reached the platform.  They had the entire back car to themselves, while I'd wheeled my bike and my wife had wheeled our stroller through the gauntlet of a packed car to get to an open seat.  I guess I should've been thankful that the driver let me on with my bike before a Tribe game, but come on... so many things about this situation were wrong.

 

I post these things here because I know someone from RTA is listening.  I have no faith that comments on the website are ever read.

Sorry to return to a couple topics from past pages, but here goes:

 

1) I'm on standing room only buses a few times/week.  In many of these cases, there are teenagers/young men/women who decide that it's there right to take up two seats, even when there are men/women standing in the aisles next to them.  Rarely do I see older men/women take the liberty to hog an entire seat, but even more rarely, do I see someone ask them to scoot over and make room for another rider.  Another issue is that I've noticed more and more strollers on the buses lately.  I was on a rush-hour #6 the other day and there were literally 4 strollers on the bus.  These riders are required to fold down their strollers and carry their kid(s) to a seat, which is no small feat, especially in the case of a (usually) single mom with multiple kids in tow... on a moving bus no less!  I am happy to say that people do jump out of their seats to help these riders, but man, it's got to be tough getting on the bus like that.  This is no one's fault, but more people are using the bus more of the time and it's only going to get worse before it gets any better.

 

 

MisterGoodDay (i'm having a throwback moment  :-D ), I understand your pain, but I too have been on a bus/train where someone (a teenager or young adult) takes up both seats on the train.  This is in know way directed at you. 

 

What I've noticed is some people are afraid to say, "excuse me, I'd like to sit down".  People have to take some responsibility.  The person standing, shouldn't have to do this, but instead of standing there and being pissed off, then complaining about the service, just tell the person taking up more room than for one person to move.  I don't want to hear any "oh, I'm a woman and the person is a man", "I don't feel comfortable doing that" or "the person taking up two seats was a person of color" crap either.  If you want to sit down, then sit.  Don't complain.  You have the right to sit down!  Period!

 

Sorry to return to a couple topics from past pages, but here goes:

 

2) If the RTA is so concerned about every penny, they really need to figure out their fare collection.  I've brought this up several times before, but yesterday was another case in point.  20+ riders were waiting at the Cedar/University Red Line station yesterday after Parade the Circle, including a wheelchair passenger, 3 bikes and 2 strollers.  Everyone knows the scenario... a train pulls up with two cars and only the front door opens.  The entire process of boarding took about 5 minutes and no one paid a fare.  Why the driver would force everyone through the front door and NOT collect a fare is beyond me, but that's what happened.  THEN (here's the kicker), after everyone had boarded this way, the driver opened all doors, all cars to let on the last two bikes who had just reached the platform.  They had the entire back car to themselves, while I'd wheeled my bike and my wife had wheeled our stroller through the gauntlet of a packed car to get to an open seat.  I guess I should've been thankful that the driver let me on with my bike before a Tribe game, but come on... so many things about this situation were wrong.

 

 

Did you get the car number?  I know you don't feel that the RTA site is reliable, but this should definitely be sent to Jerry, 'cause that makes no sense!

 

You really should have whipped out your camera and taken a picture.

Half of the time I go to Tribe games they don't actually end up collecting the fare at Tower City.  I've had that happen multiple times on both the blue and red lines.

Sorry to return to a couple topics from past pages, but here goes:

 

1) I'm on standing room only buses a few times/week.  In many of these cases, there are teenagers/young men/women who decide that it's there right to take up two seats, even when there are men/women standing in the aisles next to them.  Rarely do I see older men/women take the liberty to hog an entire seat, but even more rarely, do I see someone ask them to scoot over and make room for another rider.  Another issue is that I've noticed more and more strollers on the buses lately.  I was on a rush-hour #6 the other day and there were literally 4 strollers on the bus.  These riders are required to fold down their strollers and carry their kid(s) to a seat, which is no small feat, especially in the case of a (usually) single mom with multiple kids in tow... on a moving bus no less!  I am happy to say that people do jump out of their seats to help these riders, but man, it's got to be tough getting on the bus like that.  This is no one's fault, but more people are using the bus more of the time and it's only going to get worse before it gets any better.

 

 

MisterGoodDay (i'm having a throwback moment  :-D ), I understand your pain, but I too have been on a bus/train where someone (a teenager or young adult) takes up both seats on the train.  This is in know way directed at you. 

 

What I've noticed is some people are afraid to say, "excuse me, I'd like to sit down".  People have to take some responsibility.  The person standing, shouldn't have to do this, but instead of standing there and being pissed off, then complaining about the service, just tell the person taking up more room than for one person to move.  I don't want to hear any "oh, I'm a woman and the person is a man", "I don't feel comfortable doing that" or "the person taking up two seats was a person of color" crap either.  If you want to sit down, then sit.  Don't complain.  You have the right to sit down!  Period!

 

Oh I do this ALL the time.  I notice the seat hogging particularly with teenagers, and particularly males, but they certainly aren't the only ones.  If there are no other seats, I just make like I'm sitting down and they move over.  If I stand there and remove my backpack and make like I want to sit down and they DON'T move, I say, rather nastily, "MOVE OVER."  It is not a question.  Move or get punched in the face is kind of what it sounds like, and that's what I mean too.

yeah, sometimes you have to be a dick to get people to move. 

Can you bring your bike on the rapid with you? just wondering.