But Jerry it still does change the deterent of our system in the first place.  A rider practically has to be carrying exact change or singles cash at all times to use the system.  Did we even consider a reusable card system simler to MTA and CTA?

The new system contains software to use a Smart Card, and that software will be activated in a later phase.

 

FYI, our Full Funding Grant Agreement with the feds for ECTP specifies that POP has to be used, as another method to speed up boarding.

The new system contains software to use a Smart Card, and that software will be activated in a later phase.

 

FYI, our Full Funding Grant Agreement with the feds for ECTP specifies that POP has to be used, as another method to speed up boarding.

 

That makes me much happier Jerry.  Thanks.  And by the way, I'm not trying to be a pain, I think all in all RTA does a great job.  I've just been angry about our fare system for a long time.  Any remote idea when that later phase might be? 2 years? 5 years?  I understand it might take a while... just curious.

Glad to see it's coming eventually...  Any idea on the timeline of implementation?

The proposed "proof of payment" system (where it sounds like they basically spot check to see that people paid) doesn't sound like much of an improvement...

 

Sorry, but (in my opinion) your comment is off base. Extra Transit Police will be hired to enforce the policy, and a new "violation" fare has been established for those who want to evade fares. If you want to judge the system after you see it work, fine. But to judge it before it takes effect makes no sense.

 

no, it does make sense for discussion purposes and it can be pre-judged in a sense because this type of system is not unique. however, i agree people who may not be familiar with how it really works need to wait and see it in action. it's all fine to cheat and get away with not paying....until you get caught!!! typically for this kind of process the fines are painful and discourage gambling that you will not get caught! i think a pop payment system is a fine idea for cleveland.

 

Regular RTA riders: They're not reusable, but are the 5-trip cards impractical?  I've only ridden with monthly passes or cash fare, so I've never tried using them.  Any reason why so many people might still be using cash rather than multi-fare cards?

The cleveland.com-ers are already having fun with this one. 

 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/rta_could_raise_fares_by_50_an.html

 

RTA could raise fares by $.50 and cut services

Posted by Sarah Hollander July 01, 2008 11:47AM

Categories: Breaking News, Traffic

Bus and rapid trips could cost up to 50 cents more as early as this fall.

 

A Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority committee has recommended looking into adding a fuel surcharge as early as October to cover rising costs and dropping revenues.

 

The committee also suggested a 3 percent cut in service and a 2.5 percent cut in payroll next year.

 

 

How about some more funding from the state, huh?

Or increasing the county sales tax?  That won't fly, but it at least would put the decision in more local hands.

That's a pretty tough sell when many of the Ohio General Assembly's leadership hails from rural Ohio (which has 10 percent of the state's population). Their idea of public transportation is probably a hayride....

 

OK, rural transit is actually Ohio's fastest growing segment of the state's public transportation system.

a good incentive to start hoarding 5 trip passes

a good incentive to start hoarding 5 trip passes

 

Haha, kinda like "Forever" stamps...

I'm looking at mine right now and it says "Must Be Used Prior to 1.01.10."  I was joking with that previous message but I may actually start buying multiple cards in bulk to save money.  Something I'll have to consider

The cleveland.com-ers are already having fun with this one. 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/rta_could_raise_fares_by_50_an.html

 

 

As has already been mentioned in some of the cleveland.com blog comments, plan on getting yourselves to the hearings that will be held prior to any activity taking place. I'm sure a number of folks who get their news solely through that source will be present at these hearings, and it would be to everyone's benefit to have informed members of the public, such as those on urbanohio.com, countering the ill-informed. This will also allow for any intended adjustments to be made in the most efficient, least impactful way possible.

I'm familiar w/POP systems and have been on trains with them.  ...  Even then, it always seems hokey to have the conductor walk through the train punching tickets and the like...

 

Um, that's not proof of payment. That's a standard commuter rail or Amtrak setup. You can buy a ticket from conductor if you like, but if you boarded at a station that has a working fare machine or a ticket agent, you'll pay a small penalty (sometime a few percentage points of what would be your ticket price).

 

On a POP system, you buy your ticket or farecard at the station or off-system. You don't necessarily show it to anybody unless they ask you for it. Many times, you don't get asked. But when you do, usually it's a transit cop or security guard who gets on at an enroute station and makes spot checks of farecards/ticket. If you don't have a current ticket/farecard, you get taken off the train, are arrested and subject to a hefty fine (on some systems it's as high as $500). You cannot buy tickets/farecards from the transit cop/security guard. You are, in fact, screwed.

 

So the only difference is that on the commuter system the penalty is small, but they always check and on a POP system, they check less frequently but the penalties are bigger?  Arrested seems a bit much, especially as a fair number of folks will make honest mistakes...

That's essentially the difference.

 

Whether you get arrested may depend on the cop and your ability to pay. If you can't pay, you will be taken off the train, arrested and potentially face a heavy fine.

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1176

 

This link includes all the highlights from yesterday's RTA Board meeting, including:

 

* RTA's budget book, which has lots of valuable text and charts.

 

* The tax budget PowerPoint presentation.

 

* The presentation on the East 120th Street station.

 

* An update on the new East 55th Street station.

 

Enjoy.

 

This link includes all the highlights from yesterday's RTA Board meeting, including:

 

* RTA's budget book, which has lots of valuable text and charts.

 

* The tax budget PowerPoint presentation.

 

* The presentation on the East 120th Street station.

 

* An update on the new East 55th Street station.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

Link, link???  And by the way, kudos to you for that cleveland.com beating you had to endure yesterday.

Whether you get arrested may depend on the cop and your ability to pay. If you can't pay, you will be taken off the train, arrested and potentially face a heavy fine.

 

I do not believe that you will be given a chance to pay. If you do not have a ticket to ride, Transit Police will issue a ticket for you to pay.

That's essentially the difference.

 

Whether you get arrested may depend on the cop and your ability to pay. If you can't pay, you will be taken off the train, arrested and potentially face a heavy fine.

 

Great...subjectivity.  Sounds like race may be an issue in the penalty then.

This link includes all the highlights from yesterday's RTA Board meeting, including:

 

* RTA's budget book, which has lots of valuable text and charts.

 

* The tax budget PowerPoint presentation.

 

* The presentation on the East 120th Street station.

 

* An update on the new East 55th Street station.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

Oh the torture...where's the link?

This link includes all the highlights from yesterday's RTA Board meeting, including:

 

* RTA's budget book, which has lots of valuable text and charts.

 

* The tax budget PowerPoint presentation.

 

* The presentation on the East 120th Street station.

 

* An update on the new East 55th Street station.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

Oh the torture...where's the link?

 

right here: http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1176

 

I'll pick on Jerry for this a little later... :-)

The link was there all the time...are you guys blind?

Someone asked about the logic of still using numbers to designate the Red, Blue and Green rail lines.

 

Numbers are needed for the route software that RTA uses, and to select the routes on the RTAnswerline. We agree with you that it would be great to get ride of the numbers, and we are exploring our options in that direction.

That's essentially the difference.

 

Whether you get arrested may depend on the cop and your ability to pay. If you can't pay, you will be taken off the train, arrested and potentially face a heavy fine.

 

Great...subjectivity.  Sounds like race may be an issue in the penalty then.

 

Well, there's an easy way around that.  Pay.

So noone will ever make an honest mistake under the POP system?

 

And you think its fair that those who are stealing are dealt with subjectively?

I would think, and hopefully, Jerry will give a definitive answer, that there will be a "grace" period upon the system going live.

 

Sure after that tourist and new/non traditional riders might make mistakes, but I would think/hope each situation would be dealt with on an individual basis.

I would think, and hopefully, Jerry will give a definitive answer, that there will be a "grace" period upon the system going live.

 

Sure after that tourist and new/non traditional riders might make mistakes, but I would think/hope each situation would be dealt with on an individual basis.

 

Having lived with a system (Buffalo, NY) where POP was the norm on their light rail, and it was, in fact, a split POP/free system based on location (above-ground "trolley" portion was free, and that above-ground placement was blamed, in part, for killing downtown - but that's a story for another thread), I can say that riders take to it pretty readily, and enforcement was strict but fair.

 

Honest mistakes were dealt with accordingly, as were persistent scofflaws (who the fare-checkers got to know on sight). Surprisingly, it wasn't the teens that caused the most problems, but the occasional white-collar "oh, I'm only going three stops, I'll risk it" rider who seemed to be the most frequent variety of offender, based on my obsevations.

 

As mentioned by X, there's an easy way around dealing with any violations - just pay your fare.

Right now, I'm more concerned with the monthly passes going up to $85 a month in October!

By october gas should be around $5 a gallon and $85 will seem like a bargain again.  ;)

What are folks supposed to do when the front of the first car is unboardable due to too many people packing in?  I can "imagine" situations (Indians & Cavs playing at sametime) when all you can do is squeeze yourself into the back car and hold your breath while the door closes.  This may or may not have been at the West Blvd Station-- everyone at W65 & W25 couldn't even think of boarding.

What are folks supposed to do when the front of the first car is unboardable due to too many people packing in?  I can "imagine" situations (Indians & Cavs playing at sametime) when all you can do is squeeze yourself into the back car and hold your breath while the door closes.  This may or may not have been at the West Blvd Station-- everyone at W65 & W25 couldn't even think of boarding.

 

Welcome to real transit ridership.

 

This is where I personally feel RTA is making a huge mistake.  It's a public agency

What I would do:

• Add cars (five during both rush hour period and three the rest of the day that is if RTA has the cars to do this) and make all cars operational on all trips
  
• Add token both clerks on platforms of stations that currently don't have them.  This way RTA personell are visible and can answer questions while verifying fares.  Riders pay before entering, making the system run smoother.  RTA staffers can also give directions and answer other misc. questions that riders might have.
  
• On the Shaker Rapid, two car trains all day, that both are operational.  During Rush hour put three car trains on the Van Aken line.  This has been done in the past so I know it can be done today.
  
• I would use the rapid stations as a "hub-and-spoke" system.  I would move any route that comes near a train station to terminate at the train station, if possible.  Of course crosstown routes like 48/48a, 40/41/50, cant do this.
  
• I would use every corporate partner, to promote, the nations number one transit system via theri internal communications.  Introduce new riders to the system and use the same customers to find out what they don't like about the system.  And lastly, remind folks that they can take and even larger advantage by using commuters advantage
  
• I would target company's that aren't current commuters advantage partners and brig them into the fold.  Bring along representatives from the top two and bottom two Comm. Advantage clients.
  
• Sponsored by the media, set up a sub-site on RTA for customers to share they transit experiences and give examples as to where RTA can improve performance.  Reminding them that this is their transit system and for it to run effectively they need to be involved all the time, not just now, when the cost of driving forces you to use public transportation.  You gotta flip script.
  

 

I know this might not seem "economical" but in the eyes of the "bean counters", but it would appear RTA is listen and trying to address concerns. 

The citizens of Cuyahoga County get:

[*]More reliable service

[*]RTA has better fare controls

[*]The media behind them, BECAUSE RTA is "reinventing" itself to better address real time customer needs (ie: more transit friendly), change the perception that public transporation IN CLEVELAND is only for the poor or used as an alternative not the norm.

[*]RTA has contingency plans in place as gas prices continue to climb.

 

JMasek,

 

In response to MTS (not trying to jump on you MTS), what is the cost of operating a 2-car train versus 1-car?

Does RTA compile or acquire true origin and destination data by zone or tract within the service area?

Does RTA compile or acquire true origin and destination data by zone or tract within the service area?

 

I don't think so, but I think that is/was the purpose of the new fare boxes.  Jerry??

I have been reading post # 2561 again and again. From what I have been reading on UO, RTA must think about doing some or all of the things mentioned. Add cars and etc.I like the idea of clerks or what ever they should be called, on the platform. The last time I rode the Library line, in Pittsburgh, they had a simple building for a station monitor.(A real person). You could ask questions. They were not hidden away like in the old Rapid stations. You could talk to them if they weren't busy.

 

Post # 2562 What is the cost of operating a 2 or more car train? This hasn't been answered as of yet.

 

It would be cheaper for them to just hire "train pushers" like they have in Japan.  I bet they could even get them for free in the summer by calling it an internship. :)

 

 

Post # 2562 What is the cost of operating a 2 or more car train? This hasn't been answered as of yet.

 

 

Its only been a few hours, JMasek is usually very responsive to questions, but something tells me he's got better things to be doing at 9PM, like not being in the office, not working and spending time with his family.

RE:POP

Was thinking about it last night and while I still prefer fare card systems, there are a couple of problems that make them less feasible here.  When you don't have controlled-access stations, like on the Shaker/VanAken and Health Lines, a fare card system becomes an issue.  In those situations, the box has to be on the vehicle itself (I guess you could put it in the little stations, but who would know if anyone actually paid...).  Once it's on the vehicle, then it's up to the driver to watch people pay.  On a bus, they can still let people out the back door, since the vehicle is physically short enough that the driver can watch that no one boards there.  And, on a bus, loading each passenger and dipping their card doesn't slow things down too much, since there aren't many people at each individual stop. 

 

On light rail (esp ECTP) neither of these things is true.  You'll likely (hopefully) have a lot more people per stop getting on which means having each pay individually (even with fare cards) will slow things down.  Additionally, they may not be able to open the back doors either, since the vehicles will be longer (this last point is debateable).  In any case, loading/unloading would get slowed down.  A POP system could work better here, since all the payment should happen before boarding, so you can open use all the doors and no one should be paying as they get on. 

 

I still think a fare card system makes more sense when you have controlled stations (a la NYC, DC, Boston (most of it anyway), Chicago), but here there at least seems to be good reason to go with POP.  Oh, and as JMasek mentioned, the feds required it to get the $, which might be the best reason of all...

I was up in Cleveland for the Indians/Reds game last weekend and we too the RTA from Brookpark to Terminal Tower.... I will have to say that I wish Cincinnati had something like that from say... Western Hills, the Airport, the tri-county area, Kenwood, and Anderson to downtown somewhere--- like fountain square or something... I know this is a Cleveland thread... but I enjoyed the Rapid.

So noone will ever make an honest mistake under the POP system?

 

And you think its fair that those who are stealing are dealt with subjectively?

 

Honest mistakes are why discretion is allowed.  Is it any worse than getting pulled over for speeding?  The officer has discretion- have a clean driving record and/or if he can make a determination that it was an honest mistake the officer can let you go with a verbal warning.  If you don't trust police discretion, period, then that is really a bigger issue.

 

Welcome to real transit ridership.

 

This is where I personally feel RTA is making a huge mistake. It's a public agency

What I would do:

• Add cars (five during both rush hour period and three the rest of the day that is if RTA has the cars to do this) and make all cars operational on all trips
  
• Add token both clerks on platforms of stations that currently don't have them. This way RTA personell are visible and can answer questions while verifying fares. Riders pay before entering, making the system run smoother. RTA staffers can also give directions and answer other misc. questions that riders might have.
  
• On the Shaker Rapid, two car trains all day, that both are operational. During Rush hour put three car trains on the Van Aken line. This has been done in the past so I know it can be done today.
  
• I would use the rapid stations as a "hub-and-spoke" system. I would move any route that comes near a train station to terminate at the train station, if possible. Of course crosstown routes like 48/48a, 40/41/50, cant do this.
  
• I would use every corporate partner, to promote, the nations number one transit system via theri internal communications. Introduce new riders to the system and use the same customers to find out what they don't like about the system. And lastly, remind folks that they can take and even larger advantage by using commuters advantage
  
• I would target company's that aren't current commuters advantage partners and brig them into the fold. Bring along representatives from the top two and bottom two Comm. Advantage clients.
  
• Sponsored by the media, set up a sub-site on RTA for customers to share they transit experiences and give examples as to where RTA can improve performance. Reminding them that this is their transit system and for it to run effectively they need to be involved all the time, not just now, when the cost of driving forces you to use public transportation. You gotta flip script.
  

 

I know this might not seem "economical" but in the eyes of the "bean counters", but it would appear RTA is listen and trying to address concerns.

The citizens of Cuyahoga County get:

[*]More reliable service

[*]RTA has better fare controls

[*]The media behind them, BECAUSE RTA is "reinventing" itself to better address real time customer needs (ie: more transit friendly), change the perception that public transporation IN CLEVELAND is only for the poor or used as an alternative not the norm.

[*]RTA has contingency plans in place as gas prices continue to climb.

 

 

I'll settle for 2-car Blue/Green line trains during rush hour.  Way too many standees during rush hour for the (I'm sure) modest sums RTA is saving.  -- hint: cut some more duplicating/redundant bus service (that parallels rail lines) and save money that way, esp GAS.  Rapids move more people faster and w/ electricity...

RE:POP

Was thinking about it last night and while I still prefer fare card systems, there are a couple of problems that make them less feasible here. When you don't have controlled-access stations, like on the Shaker/VanAken and Health Lines, a fare card system becomes an issue. In those situations, the box has to be on the vehicle itself (I guess you could put it in the little stations, but who would know if anyone actually paid...). Once it's on the vehicle, then it's up to the driver to watch people pay. On a bus, they can still let people out the back door, since the vehicle is physically short enough that the driver can watch that no one boards there. And, on a bus, loading each passenger and dipping their card doesn't slow things down too much, since there aren't many people at each individual stop.

 

On light rail (esp ECTP) neither of these things is true. You'll likely (hopefully) have a lot more people per stop getting on which means having each pay individually (even with fare cards) will slow things down. Additionally, they may not be able to open the back doors either, since the vehicles will be longer (this last point is debateable). In any case, loading/unloading would get slowed down. A POP system could work better here, since all the payment should happen before boarding, so you can open use all the doors and no one should be paying as they get on.

 

I still think a fare card system makes more sense when you have controlled stations (a la NYC, DC, Boston (most of it anyway), Chicago), but here there at least seems to be good reason to go with POP. Oh, and as JMasek mentioned, the feds required it to get the $, which might be the best reason of all...

 

I don't disagree but I believe it should be possible to combine the two... Why not at stations have vending machines that could distribute fare cards (i stick in my cc, ask for $20 with it spits it out).  On the bus you could swipe it entering just like a current pass.  On the rapid lines / BRT where POP is in place you could swipe your card to get your POP ticket.  Everyone wins, and we just made it immensly easier to get around.

Cause I'm bored at work, here's a little story to go with your morning coffee.

 

So I'm on the Shaker Rapid going eastbound yesterday evening at 8:00.  The whole time there are these four women, who either are on something or just born wrong, talking very loudly about how times are tough for them.  Then, in some bizzare attempt to gain more attention since everyone on the train can tell these women are nitro and best to be avoided, they start picking on some poor girl.  They keep grilling her about the virtues of celibacy and Jesus, and this poor kid tries to be polite and agreeable, probably you can tell these women are aching to get into a confrontation.

 

Eventually these psychos get off at the Shaker Square stop and EVERYONE breathes a sigh of relief because I really thought we'd have to call the police.  They weren't just being loud - they are being AGGRESIVELY loud and clearly looking to start something.

 

The best part - the conductor, whom they were sitting 3 seats behind - did absolutely nothing even though they were clearly disturbing people's privacy in addition to throwing out the N word repeatedly.  But I can't really blame the conductor for staying out of it cause I too tried to zone out  though I was planning on intervening if they kept harassing the kid (it only lasted a few minutes).

 

Back to work.  Now drink your coffee and enjoy the holiday weekend!

Welcome to real transit ridership.

 

This is where I personally feel RTA is making a huge mistake.  It's a public agency

What I would do:

• Add cars (five during both rush hour period and three the rest of the day that is if RTA has the cars to do this) and make all cars operational on all trips
  
• Add token both clerks on platforms of stations that currently don't have them.  This way RTA personell are visible and can answer questions while verifying fares.  Riders pay before entering, making the system run smoother.  RTA staffers can also give directions and answer other misc. questions that riders might have.
  
• On the Shaker Rapid, two car trains all day, that both are operational.  During Rush hour put three car trains on the Van Aken line.  This has been done in the past so I know it can be done today.
  
• I would use the rapid stations as a "hub-and-spoke" system.  I would move any route that comes near a train station to terminate at the train station, if possible.  Of course crosstown routes like 48/48a, 40/41/50, cant do this.
  
• I would use every corporate partner, to promote, the nations number one transit system via theri internal communications.  Introduce new riders to the system and use the same customers to find out what they don't like about the system.  And lastly, remind folks that they can take and even larger advantage by using commuters advantage
  
• I would target company's that aren't current commuters advantage partners and brig them into the fold.  Bring along representatives from the top two and bottom two Comm. Advantage clients.
  
• Sponsored by the media, set up a sub-site on RTA for customers to share they transit experiences and give examples as to where RTA can improve performance.  Reminding them that this is their transit system and for it to run effectively they need to be involved all the time, not just now, when the cost of driving forces you to use public transportation.  You gotta flip script.
  

 

I know this might not seem "economical" but in the eyes of the "bean counters", but it would appear RTA is listen and trying to address concerns. 

The citizens of Cuyahoga County get:

[*]More reliable service

[*]RTA has better fare controls

[*]The media behind them, BECAUSE RTA is "reinventing" itself to better address real time customer needs (ie: more transit friendly), change the perception that public transporation IN CLEVELAND is only for the poor or used as an alternative not the norm.

[*]RTA has contingency plans in place as gas prices continue to climb.

 

 

There are a few points I can answer in this post:

 

• hub & spoke connectivity between bus & rail are already in place in many areas, and are improving; it's one of the reasons we made a change to the #37 to have EVERY trip service Windermere Rapid Station, where some of them previously bypassed the station
  
• our Commuter Advantage program has been growing by leaps & bounds, and now services over 387 companies and 9,300 employees (in fact, I may have recruited a new one on the way home last night); if anyone out there knows of a company that isn't participating, have them e-mail [email protected] for more information, or direct them to http://www.riderta.com/pro_commuter.asp
  
• this forum has been a fantastic avenue for customer/advocate communications, and we've made progress through this communication that might not have otherwise been possible -- look for more in this vein in the coming months, but in the meantime, by all means encourage people to use this forum as a discussion mechanism
  
• finally, as you may or may not have previously read, Jerry has re-assumed the mantle of RTA Media Relations Manager, in addition to his duties as Publications Manager, so he is spread a little thin; I'll make sure he checks into the thread and gets some answers where appropriate, but realize that responses may be delayed, especially on questions that require input from other areas of the agency
  

 

 

Cause I'm bored at work, here's a little story to go with your morning coffee.

 

So I'm on the Shaker Rapid going eastbound yesterday evening at 8:00.  The whole time there are these four women, who either are on something or just born wrong, talking very loudly about how times are tough for them.  Then, in some bizzare attempt to gain more attention since everyone on the train can tell these women are nitro and best to be avoided, they start picking on some poor girl.  They keep grilling her about the virtues of celibacy and Jesus, and this poor kid tries to be polite and agreeable, probably you can tell these women are aching to get into a confrontation.

 

Eventually these psychos get off at the Shaker Square stop and EVERYONE breathes a sigh of relief because I really thought we'd have to call the police.  They weren't just being loud - they are being AGGRESIVELY loud and clearly looking to start something.

 

The best part - the conductor, whom they were sitting 3 seats behind - did absolutely nothing even though they were clearly disturbing people's privacy in addition to throwing out the N word repeatedly.  But I can't really blame the conductor for staying out of it cause I too tried to zone out  though I was planning on intervening if they kept harassing the kid (it only lasted a few minutes).

 

Back to work.  Now drink your coffee and enjoy the holiday weekend!

 

DID YOU OR ANY OTHER PASSENGER SAY ANYTHING TO THE CONDUCTOR???

 

why would the conductor do/say anything if NONE OF THE PASSENGERS made an attempt to speak with the conductor?

 

Riders have to take ownership in issues as well and not place all the responsibility on RTA employee's.

Took the Rapid downtown last night for the Orchestra and fireworks, and it, along with Tower City was out of control packed (a good thing of course).

The clouds opened up right as the fireworks were ending, and a large portion of the crowd moved towards TC, but with a couple entrances closed, we were stuck out in the rain.  The crowd was laughing and yelling as the rain came down harder, and it really was a hilarious sense of civic bonding.  Here's a couple pics from the westbound Red line, and Tower City.

w28, how many cars made up that train?

why would the conductor do/say anything if NONE OF THE PASSENGERS made an attempt to speak with the conductor?

 

Because that's their job. 

 

Riders have to take ownership in issues as well and not place all the responsibility on RTA employee's.

 

The RTA is providing a service.  Customers are required to not be jacka$$es while using the service; they aren't required to assist the RTA in providing the service they are getting.  It's not up to the public to regulate this sort of thing...what if those people were the only ones on the train?  Then that behavior is OK?  No, it's not OK and the only ones who are always there to prevent that are the RTA employees.

 

That line of thought is why there are so many run down parts of Cleveland - the people whose job it was to regulate that type of behavior: police, city officials, local government, etc didn't do their jobs.  The general public is not equipped to regulate other people's behavior.  People expect a certain level of respect from fellow citizens and should they not get it, they expect those others to be dealt with accordingly.  Self regulated public behavior leads to disaster.

 

 

I disagree.  If nobody says anything, how is the operator, who should be concerned with driving to know if they is a real issue?

 

Would saying something to the driver like, "there is a disgruntled passenger....." been beneficial?  In addition, as told here, the young lady who was allegedly "harassed" said nothing.

 

What I mean by "ownership", is this is our system.  If you see something, say something - to an RTA employee.  I wasn't suggesting that one passenger, tell another passenger what to do.