Didn't Guiliani try to crack down on jaywalkers about 10 years ago but with only 2 dollar fines?  Seems like a good idea - it's not enough money to really piss people off but the fact that it's enforced will likely make some kind of dent in the number of jaywalking incidents

Didn't Guiliani try to crack down on jaywalkers about 10 years ago but with only 2 dollar fines?  Seems like a good idea - it's not enough money to really piss people off but the fact that it's enforced will likely make some kind of dent in the number of jaywalking incidents

 

No it was an $2 increase to fine(at that time).  The city also revamped the "cross at green not in-between" pedestrian campaign as TS, HS were reborn.

 

They stepped up the "block the box" and "pedestrian barricades" program.

 

These officers may also be enforcing jaywalking statutes and issuing warnings or citations regarding other violations as necessary.

 

JAYWALKING STATUTES?  Are theya trying to start a revolution?  Cleveland is the jaywalking capital of at least Ohio if not the midwest.  Try it in Columbus and see what happens.

Of course you have documentation to back up your statement, right?  ::)  Opps.... I'm pouncing.

 

If you cross where designated, don't drive in the bus lane or park in the driving/biking lane, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

Preventing small crimes, stops larger crimes and make the city safer, REAL OR PERCEIVED.

 

I, for one, am all for this type of enforcement.  Rules are rules.  If a person cannot follow the law, then they should stay at home.

"Preventing small crimes, stops larger crimes and make the city safer, REAL OR PERCEIVED"

 

I agree.  Broken windows (or shattered windows or whatever it's called) seemed to do wonders for New York, and I see no reason Cleveland cannot follow foot.

If a person cannot follow the law, then they should stay at home.

 

Yeah!

 

It'll give me more room to jaywalk!

The RTA Board meets Nov. 18. Here is a preview.

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1228

Stephanie Tubbs Jones East Side Transit Center.  Nice.

Stephanie Tubbs Jones East Side Transit Center. Nice.

 

Very nice.

Stephanie Tubbs Jones East Side Transit Center. Nice.

 

Very nice.

 

I like it :-D

Tomorrow is the 40th anniversary of Rapid service to Hopkins Airport.

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1230

 

There may be a story in Saturday's Plain Dealer.

I'm really excited about the transit center, I think it could be a great asset for downtown.  So we know where it is going, and we know pretty much what it will look like... do we know when they may actually start construction?  I'm just curious.

Can someone give a quick rundown of how the Transit Center works, its benefits, etc.?  It's not readily apparent to an outsider how transit center somewhat "non-centrally located" (aka not adjacent to Public Square) helps the operations and/or customers of RTA.  Just curious.

Can someone give a quick rundown of how the Transit Center works, its benefits, etc.? It's not readily apparent to an outsider how transit center somewhat "non-centrally located" (aka not adjacent to Public Square) helps the operations and/or customers of RTA. Just curious.

 

Read the first few posts of this thread.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=6860.20

Reading the thread about the ESTC has some quotes from DaninDC.  What a d-bag.

Can someone give a quick rundown of how the Transit Center works, its benefits, etc.? It's not readily apparent to an outsider how transit center somewhat "non-centrally located" (aka not adjacent to Public Square) helps the operations and/or customers of RTA. Just curious.

That's a good question and one I'm a little curious about too. The ESTC thread quoted seems mostly to do with the parking garage.

Thanks for the link!  I just assumed it was discussed here.

 

However, this is the only description of it that I found.

The East Side Transit Center will provide weather-protected facilities for transit patrons including some retail outlets and facilities for RTA drivers and security personnel. The center as presently planned will have layover berths for 12 to 16 buses arranged to permit smooth and efficient arrival and departure as well as ingress and egress to existing streets. The ESTC will also be closely situated and linked to the massive Euclid Corridor improvement project currently under design. A 600 space multilevel parking deck topped by athletic facilities is being jointly developed with Cleveland State University for the ESTC site.

 

So it's a parking garage / layover point for buses?  So it's a hub of sorts?  On the face of it, it just seems like it will create inefficiency/confusion in routing, but I'm guessing that's just because I'm not understanding it correctly.

......

 

There may be a story in Saturday's Plain Dealer.

 

LOL.  Have I started something?  LOL

 

ETA:  be prepared for ignorant, off topic and uneducated answers from YOUR friends on cleveland.com

 

 

I'm really excited about the transit center, I think it could be a great asset for downtown.  So we know where it is going, and we know pretty much what it will look like... do we know when they may actually start construction?   I'm just curious.

 

RTA has not yet secured all funding to start construction, and under our policy, we have to have all funds in hand before ground is broken. Work will commence as soon as funding is set. Tuesday, the Board will move to secure the land lease from CSU, which is the first step.

Unfortunately, one of the new articulated busses hit a pedestrian in the crosswalk on Puclic Square in front of Key Tower this morning.  Thankfully, the pedestrian appeared to me moving and talking when they loaded her onto the stretcher.

She was treated and released.

In a victory for BRT over rail, the next Healthline bus was able to reroute through the square and incurred virtually no delay from the accident.  RTA had people there coordinating everything.  I'm glad the lady involved turned out to be OK.

Some rapid trains have new rapid route maps w/ the Healthline...Some, not all.  I really wish the trains would have the same maps as some may have 4 different maps spanning decades posted in a rather haphazard manner in 4 different layouts.  Granted this isn't a life or death issue but really...some coordination would go a long way maintaining clarity and sense of professionalism within the authority.

 

Oh, and the website map still isn't updated...Most people probably would never notice this kind of stuff but our system is rather compact so we need to pay attention to little details.

 

 

In a victory for BRT over rail,

 

So that's how it is, eh? In a victory for rail over bus, for a pedestrian to get hit by a train in most circumstances would require the pedestrian to trespass on the tracks. In the same pedestrian-busy streets, people are mixing with BRTs that are heavier and thus harder to stop than conventional buses. Good call, 327.

In a victory for BRT over rail,

 

So that's how it is, eh? In a victory for rail over bus, for a pedestrian to get hit by a train in most circumstances would require the pedestrian to trespass on the tracks. In the same pedestrian-busy streets, people are mixing with BRTs that are heavier and thus harder to stop than conventional buses. Good call, 327.

 

I was afraid my post might come off that way.  I'm not pro-BRT but since we have it now I do look for silver linings (ha ha pun).  I guess I shouldn't make light of the situation.  People do encounter trains too, and they aren't the only things that can block a rail line.  I still would have preferred rail for the corridor, but BRT offers the ability to go around things.  That can be useful in a shared right of way.  The braking deficiencies don't seem that pronounced, and it couldn't be that much of a factor at public square speed anyway.  I could be wrong.  Still, BRT is now a showpiece feature for Cleveland, so we might as well have some good talking points. 

Well I do have to agree somewhat with you both.  and KJP and The Mayor, the HL is here, so get into it!  :whip:

 

 

Now, in regard to cars, I've seen my fare share of cars run into a train.  Especially the older shaker cars.  back then the trains couldn't single track.  So if a car hit a train at courtland, the "shaker" train could only go to shaker square. Shaker Hts. would have to bus people from green road to shaker square as their were only EASTBOUND loops at Warrensville and Green Road.

Some rapid trains have new rapid route maps w/ the Healthline...Some, not all.  I really wish the trains would have the same maps as some may have 4 different maps spanning decades posted in a rather haphazard manner in 4 different layouts.  Granted this isn't a life or death issue but really...some coordination would go a long way maintaining clarity and sense of professionalism within the authority.

 

Oh, and the website map still isn't updated...Most people probably would never notice this kind of stuff but our system is rather compact so we need to pay attention to little details.

 

 

Amen, cle.

 

I was in a Red Line car a few months ago where I was shocked to see up front on the wall next to the motorman's cab, there was one little map (in one style) of the entire system then, on top, a big blown up map of... the Shaker Rapid (Blue & Green lines)... Huh!? But this isn't rare.  Red Line cars have different style maps posted haphazardly all over trains and it looks ridiculous; like a transit system that doesn't care: just stick any old map anywhere.  I was even, w/in the last year, on a Red Line train that had, posted over the door, a map so old it didn't even have the Waterfront Line on it even though the WL opened over 12 years ago!!!!

 

RTA really needs to hire a serious graphics designer and standardize quality rail maps which now, of course, should include the Health Line; and RTA needs to stick with this designer.  RTA needs to realize that, although our rail system isn't huge, it is detailed enough that novice riders could get confused.  Moreover, there's something to be said for simply having a map look good (much like those nice back-lit ones at the beginning of platforms in Tower City.  Not that mangled, twisted-around, unbalanced 'Rapid map' currently in many Red Line cars and featured on the RTA website.  Problem is, RTA seems to issue a different style of map every few years, even though the rail system hasn’t changed; and hence we get the current mess… RTA needs to study the Boston “T”, the DC Metro or even the Toronto Subway to realize how quality graphics for its rail line enhances the image of the system as opposed to the confused/haphazard joke we have now.

 

The Cleveland area happens to have a really good transit-system-maps company, I used to work there.

The Cleveland area happens to have a really good transit-system-maps company, I used to work there.

 

As I mentioned, some are nice, some are not.  But as I noted, the bigger problem is map placement on trains and often the unbalanced style of some of the maps. 

/\ exactly.  Why are there maps that appear to be from 1980 next to maps from 1999 and 2003?  They even include travel times btw. stations.  Again, more importantly, why must there be such a huge stagger in replacing maps with the most recent HL additions?  And why isn't it online yet?!    :?

 

seriously...

And why isn't it online yet?!    :?

IIRC, upthread Jerry and/or JetDog discussed the issue of maps.

And why isn't it online yet?! :?

IIRC, upthread Jerry and/or JetDog discussed the issue of maps.

 

Obviously, the advent of the Health Line is going to cause a major re-mapping of the current system... But I still wish the Red Line train maps could be tightened up.

I have something to offer the group, and it affects many different topics. Each year since I have been here, the number of staff at RTA has shrunk. And, for the last six years, the number of customers served as grown. When service shrinks, we need less operators. But when the number of support positions shrinks, you find many cases where one person does the job that was formerly done by 2 or 3 others. Key aspects of each job are done, to be sure, but other tasks may not be done as often or as quickly as they were done before. Remember, the salary of the bus operator, the Webmaster, and the graphics guy who does the maps, all come out of the same pot. If we add a position here, we have to take one away somewhere else. Should we hire a graphics assistant, so more maps can be produced more quickly, or do we hire a bus operator? It is all about allocation of limited resources. All of your points are valid ones. Why hasn't RTA done this? Why is RTA late doing that? Decisions are made. You disagree with them. Fine, welcome to America. Please know that everything is done for a reason, and each task has a specific priority. Many of the key players here have 30+ years in transit management, usually in multiple cities. Yes, there are some things we can do better, and yes, we could use more money.

 

Please keep the suggestions coming. Things are far from perfect, but they ARE getting better.

Can you give us some insight at to when we will have updated and uniform maps?

JMasek...is there any reason why the blue emergency lights are on constantly at several of the HL stations, particularly in East Cleveland?

Jerry, thanks for taking the time to describe the conditions under which you and other staff are working. I understand those constraints and encourage others to consider what Jerry said when offering suggestions and criticisms.

"RTA really needs to hire a serious graphics designer"

 

A serious graphic"s" designer? As someone with over 15 years in the industry, I would caution you - to never, EVER, refer to anyone in said position as a graphics designer. Just. Don't.

^what, can they only design one graphic at a time?

 

 

 

 

(talk to you guys after my suspension)

^ If you saw the output of our graphic designer, you would swear that 3-4 people work in that department. His plate is more than full, each and every day. I can only say that RTA is aware of the map issue, but I have no timetable.

Gotta tell ya Jerry.

 

The re-routing of the 81 makes it completely and utterly useless.

 

Why was steelyard taken off the 807 circulator route and now the 81 is doing circulator duties?

 

the 6:05 at w. 14th and Clark used to make the 6:22 blue line out of tower city if you were lucky and the 6:29 if you werent. 

 

Now the 6:05 gets you on the 6:51 which means I get to work at 7:30 instead of 7.  Which means I will not take the RTA to work, that is 1 hour a day 5 hours a week 250 hours a year.  10 days of my life a year, isn't worth it.

 

it used to take 10  minutes more to take RTA than driving.....30 minutes more is a deal breaker.

 

Not to mention it doesn't make any sense.  You would have done better rationalizing the 807 route.

Gotta tell ya Jerry.

 

The re-routing of the 81 makes it completely and utterly useless.

 

Why was steelyard taken off the 807 circulator route and now the 81 is doing circulator duties?

 

the 6:05 at w. 14th and Clark used to make the 6:22 blue line out of tower city if you were lucky and the 6:29 if you werent. 

 

Now the 6:05 gets you on the 6:51 which means I get to work at 7:30 instead of 7.  Which means I will not take the RTA to work, that is 1 hour a day 5 hours a week 250 hours a year.  10 days of my life a year, isn't worth it.

 

it used to take 10  minutes more to take RTA than driving.....30 minutes more is a deal breaker.

 

Not to mention it doesn't make any sense.  You would have done better rationalizing the 807 route.

 

As Jerry is off on vacation this week, I believe I can lend some insight into the points raised.

 

First, I think your second sentence would be better-phrased if it were ended with the words "for me". I have had occasion to take the newly-routed #81 out of downtown on a couple of occasions, and have found it to be a better, quicker ride into Steelyard (my intended destination) than the two-seat ride offered by the #20, 22, or 25 connecting to the #807.

 

While we'd like our system to be all things to all people, as has been stated many times, both on this forum and elsewhere, the present economic condition simply makes that an impossibility.

 

As your are (or should be) aware, there was a consideration at one point, which may still come to pass, of eliminating all circulator service as a means of balancing our budget. Included in this consideration was the recognition that Steelyard Commons, as a major urban employment and retail center, should not be left without service. The idea that the #81 is performing "circulator duties" is a baseless assertion -- service is service, and it will be provided with what equipment is available. In this case, that route is capable of being served by either type of equipment, as there are no overwhelming considerations (such as narrow neighborhood streets) that make the circulator more favorable than the big bus.

 

My own anecdotal observation, limited as it is, is that the #81 is actually serving more passengers to Steelyard than the #807 ever did, and it seems to do so in a more direct manner, albeit one that is unfortunately not conducive to your specific needs.

 

I'm unclear what is meant by your statement of "rationalizing the 807 route" - perhaps you'd care to expand on this. Did you take the opportunity to comment at any of the public hearings that were held when this plan was first announced?

 

Any plans that can be proposed to make our service more efficient and effective while remaining expense-neutral (or, even better, reducing our expenses) will certainly be taken into consideration. If a proposed change costs more, that will mean cuts will have to be made elsewhere to implement it, and will greatly reduce its chances of happening.

I have ridden public transportation in 8 countries on 3 continents and could not for the life of me figure out the 807 route...either through observation or reading its map.  I live in Tremont about a block 1/2 from the Clark W. 14th st intersection.  and would see it all the time..I just had absolutely no idea where it was going/when.  I did know that it traversed steel yard and it also went by the 25th st Rapid station but that is all I was ever confident in.

 

Anyone riding the 81 hoping to make a train connection downtown is now out......and the time it gives you for 14th and Clark is NOT the time it picks you up at the bus shelter at 14th and Clark, now it is the time it turns right instead and heads into SteelYard.  The Time it actually picks up at the bus shelter at that intersection is 10? 12? 15? minutes later than the time stated.  So while it is true that the new route makes it useless for ME it also makes it useless for anyone looking to make a train connection downtown.

 

I am fortunate enough not to need to ride public transportation.  I was doing it because I could.  I can actually car pool the 16 miles to work so the 2 of us taking the bus/train cost a little more than driving even with $4 gas.  But it was a little less stressful than rush hour traffic.

 

Because I travel a bunch for work (I do logistics software so I am perfectly aware that you need to be the best for the most within budget and sometimes people just get left out)  that I was unable to attend the meetings, and even if I was able to I don't know that I would have.  It isn't a deal breaker for me I will just drive.

 

But again anyone hoping to make a train connection during morning rush hour (at least on the blue line) is now losing an hour a day over the previous schedule. 

 

Maybe the circulator isn't the answer, but if Steelyard is such a priority maybe that should be considered in the larger scope...it is now easier for you to get there  but what about the folks at the CMHA property on 25th that the circulator went by and down into SteelYards?  They are out now too (having to connect at the 25th St rapid or Scranton and Clark to the 81), and I think those folks should be given more consideration than you or I, I suspect that they need it more than either one of us.

"Anyone riding the 81 hoping to make a train connection downtown is now out......and the time it gives you for 14th and Clark is NOT the time it picks you up at the bus shelter at 14th and Clark, now it is the time it turns right instead and heads into SteelYard.  The Time it actually picks up at the bus shelter at that intersection is 10? 12? 15? minutes later than the time stated."

 

I'm in the same neighborhood and an occasional user of the 81 and I wondered how the Steelyard service would affect the timing... however (Granted it's just one observation on one day), but according to the schedule there's a pickup at the West 14th/Clark bus shelter at 9:09am - at 9:05am this morning, I saw a 81 heading northbound on West 14th near Buhrer, which would put them there on-time.

Gotta tell ya Jerry.

 

The re-routing of the 81 makes it completely and utterly useless. <snip>

 

As Jerry is off on vacation this week, I believe I can lend some insight into the points raised.

 

First, I think your second sentence would be better-phrased if it were ended with the words "for me". I have had occasion to take the newly-routed #81 out of downtown on a couple of occasions, and have found it to be a better, quicker ride into Steelyard (my intended destination) than the two-seat ride offered by the #20, 22, or 25 connecting to the #807.

 

While we'd like our system to be all things to all people, as has been stated many times, both on this forum and elsewhere, the present economic condition simply makes that an impossibility.

<snip>

 

Just an FYI: It has made my commute to work a real PITA, too. It means leaving for work 20 minutes earlier to get there on time. I've heard a lot of the same grumbling from morning riders.

 

The bus now arrives at Public Square at 8:01, 8:31 and 9:01. So, if you work at the Terminal Tower, you're a minute late if the bus is on time. (And in practice the bus that is supposed to arrive at 8:01 usually arrives downtown between 8:10 and 8:15.) If you work elsewhere, the time is pushed back further.

 

It still beats driving (for me). I just read my paper on the bus instead of with my coffee. But ksonic99 isn't the only one who doesn't like the new timetable.

The circulator served Ohio city from Detroit and 25th and the CMHA projects there past the projects near Lutheran Medical,  Clark Metro, Tremont, and Denison.

 

Now the 81 gets you from Downtown and Tremont to SteelYard.  The 81 goes from the 65th street Rapid to Downtown, it is a route for Commuters, either directly or indirectly (trying to get a Train).

 

I understand the route change was made with an eye to the elimination of the Circulators...but the 807 was not canceled.

 

This switch harms both constituencies....the people trying to get to work, and the low income folks in the surrounding neighborhoods.

 

Since the 807 still runs, did RTA actaully save anything in this instance?  how much?  and what are the reductions (or increases) in ridership on the 2 routes? 

 

 

Anyone riding the 81 hoping to make a train connection downtown is now out......and the time it gives you for 14th and Clark is NOT the time it picks you up at the bus shelter at 14th and Clark, now it is the time it turns right instead and heads into SteelYard.   The Time it actually picks up at the bus shelter at that intersection is 10? 12? 15? minutes later than the time stated. So while it is true that the new route makes it useless for ME it also makes it useless for anyone looking to make a train connection downtown.

 

Per the timetable, the timepoint listing for 14th and Clark is displayed prior to the listing for Quigley and Steelyard, so, yes, this is the time it turns right and enters Steelyard. However, that intersection is passed through twice, since the circuit through Steelyard is a closed loop, so the time listed for one of these passings is correct.

 

Believe me, I do feel your pain (for those who may not be aware, I'm a 24/7 transit user myself), and I appreciate your feedback. I don't know if there is one simple answer to your concerns, much as I'd like for there to be. Certainly, if adjustments can be made that make the #81 a more viable downtown connecting ride, we'll make every effort to implement them. Keep in mind, changes on one route can have cascade effects on other routes, so we don't make these changes lightly.

please note that there is no Bus shelter when you turn right and the bus stop is a significant distance from the corner.

 

If they list one time for 14th and Clark it should be the most obvious one.  not the one no one can see and the bus never stopped at before this change.

 

14th and Clark should be listed after steel yards not before.

 

 

"If they list one time for 14th and Clark it should be the most obvious one.  not the one no one can see and the bus never stopped at before this change.

 

14th and Clark should be listed after steel yards not before."

 

Absolutely - the West 14th/Clark LISTED stop has ALWAYS been the ones I've marked below. And since when does "well the bus goes THROUGH the intersection at that time" qualify as the scheduled stop?!?

 

 

The loop through and back from Steelyard is about 3 miles - part of that loop is the Jennings Freeway DURING RUSH HOUR. Yeah, I think this is a case where people have a legitimate gripe.

"If they list one time for 14th and Clark it should be the most obvious one. not the one no one can see and the bus never stopped at before this change.

 

14th and Clark should be listed after steel yards not before."

 

Absolutely - the West 14th/Clark LISTED stop has ALWAYS been the ones I've marked below. And since when does "well the bus goes THROUGH the intersection at that time" qualify as the scheduled stop?!?

 

The loop through and back from Steelyard is about 3 miles - part of that loop is the Jennings Freeway DURING RUSH HOUR. Yeah, I think this is a case where people have a legitimate gripe.

 

I never suggested the gripe wasn't legitimate. I was merely responding to the implication that the scheduled time was in some way wrong. Keep in mind, any intersection of two roads could have as many as 8 points that might be described using the same street name pair (are you traveling north, south, east, or west, and is your stop before or after the intersection?).

 

That being said, it may be worth our considering replacing one time point with another, and it's certainly a point I'll raise with our scheduling & planning folks. There may be some resistance to doing so, as it would put the new timepoint fairly close, time and distance wise, to the W 25 Rapid Station timepoint, and would put a large gap between the Trowbridge/W 25 and Quigley/Steelyard timepoints. There may also be other reasons for doing it this way that I'm not aware of.

 

I'm not saying it can't happen, but I don't want it to be thought of as a slam-dunk in either direction.

As far as I can tell the "W 14th & Clark" stop is at W 14th and Rowlely which is 1 block south from 14th and Clark and not in your picture,  It is a parking lot and a building further to the south.

 

Like I said I just don't get it...I am sure somebody thought about it and had a reason.  But I cannot imagine what it would be, what was actually gained from this change?  Did it increase ridership? Did it save a significant sum of money? (not sure how, the circulator still runs)

 

I write logistics software for a living I can allocate revenue/expenses (both direct and indirect, fixed and variable) for every mile of every trip by driver/unit of power...anytime anyone wants a "change" they better have a really good reason for "Why"?

 

Because I can, or I just want it that way are not good answers as to why. 

 

Eliminating the circulators is a really good answer as to why...you would need to get service into Steelyards in some fashion.  Except that didn't happen.  So what are the numbers that back up this decision.

 

There should be a "it will decrease the blended cost of operating the 81 and 807 by 3%  (which should be a readily available number with a breakdown as to fuel, employee, maintenance) and it will increase/decrease blended ridership by 4% (which will be an educated guess either way)"

 

You don't necessarily have to provide them to me, but you really should have them...or somebody should be looking for a new job.

Rapid from the airport running tomorrow ?