Although the article is older, I thought it'd be a good starter for a constructive thread comparing northern Kentucky to Cincinnati. Let's not turn this into a "South Shore sucks, The Bank rules" type of thread, but I'd like to hear  some comments on this issue -- since it's brought up so frequently in so many threads.

 

Can Ohio, Ky. projects coexist?

By Bob Driehaus, Cincinnati Post, August 30, 2001, Page 1A

 

A nearly perfect neighborhood has been dreamed up for Cincinnati's riverfront.

 

The proposed Banks development would blend new housing for varied incomes, beautiful parks, office towers and retail stores designed to add vitality to the beleaguered downtown.

 

Built-in utilities and storage space would allow festivals to run on weekdays instead of only on long weekends. Park space would be built right on the river.

 

And a massive two-story garage would allow development level with downtown streets.

 

But on the eve of a deadline Friday for development proposals, a multi-million-dollar question remains: Will it work?

I think they have no choice!!   

 

Attached at the "bridge", if you will.

Till death do us part.

The two can coexist, but there has to be a heck of a lot more cooperation and a heck of a lot fewer cheap shots.  My negative feelings towards Nky projects is that they typically come standard with the typical cheap shots at Cincinnati.  At the same time, the projects aren't much different from things going on on the Cincinnati side.  That's not a shot at Nky, just a comment.

 

I like The Ascent and most of the stuff that Covington does...but I could without Bill Butler taking pot shots at Cincinnati at every opportunity that presents itself.  NOTL bores me, and yes I'm bitter about Hofbrauhaus and Newport Aquarium being there instead of on the Cincinnati side.  I viewed it as being similar to the standard West Chester 15 year 100% tax abatement approach.  Newport low-balled Cincinnati and essentially stole the two projects right out from under Cincy.

 

We need to work together...if we did then we could have some amazing river-related features.  Water taxis, river trails/boardwalks through the core, a streetcar network connecting the core, and other very cool/unique features.  But instead we have been stuck in the pissing matches with every new development that happens.  Ovation is looking to one-up The Banks by being bigger/better, but this seems to be coming at the expense of doing something innovative and welcoming with that very prime location.

 

I hope/want Ohio and Kentucky projects to coexist...but I'm just not sure there is the political will there right now.

Cincinnati is in a tri-state area.  Some might consider that a structural disadvantage.  However, why not figure a way to turn it into an advantage?  I think that good things for NKY and Cincinnati don't have to come at the expense of each other.  Rather, they can complement each other.  Frankly, I think Cincy has more to fear from Warren and Clermont Counties than it does from NKY.

 

One reason Cincy has an international air hub is that it allowed its airport to be built in Northern Kentucky.  I'm not sure of the history there, but let me promise you Louisville, for example, would never in a zillion years allow its airport to be located in Southern Indiana.

 

Rando, I just don't see it. You can be mad at Bill Butler all you want, in fact I think 100% of the people who meet him, read about him, or hear him speak get mad at him. But you don't have to be mad at the entire region.

 

I don't see it as NKY vs Cincy as far as development goes. Maybe I'm naive, but development on both sides of the river compliment each other. Maybe not directly in a "you build one hotel, then I'll build an attraction, then you build some apartments, and then I'll build some retail" way; sure they're competing but overall everybody seems to be doing well. Do you really think that if both the Banks and Ovation get built that one or the other will 'win' and the other will cease to exist? No, they'll both do fine and we'll have that much more population living in the core.

 

I'm honestly trying to understand this 'Us vs Them' mentality that many on this board take. Let's root for everything happening in the core, b/c w/ out NKY, Cincy is really only half a city. If people are so worried about NKY stealing Cincinnati companies/jobs then those same Cincinnati residents need to be lobbying city hall to make Cincy more competitive with the river cities. BTW, I think Cincinnati is doing just fine, thankyou.  I fail to see how any NKY developments have done irreperable harm to Cincinnati or vice versa for that matter.

 

I get geeked at every project that's announced or started on both sides of the river b/c I know that with each new project, our core is being strengthened.  And along w/ that comes an increase in the value of my property.

^I agree.

 

Rando, to quote soapbox on their first issue, "what are you going to do about it?"  :-D

Rando, I just don't see it. You can be mad at Bill Butler all you want, in fact I think 100% of the people who meet him, read about him, or hear him speak get mad at him. But you don't have to be mad at the entire region.

 

First of all when did I say I was "mad" about anything...furthermore, when did I say I was mad at the entire Nky region?

 

I don't see it as NKY vs Cincy as far as development goes. Maybe I'm naive, but development on both sides of the river compliment each other. Maybe not directly in a "you build one hotel, then I'll build an attraction, then you build some apartments, and then I'll build some retail" way; sure they're competing but overall everybody seems to be doing well. Do you really think that if both the Banks and Ovation get built that one or the other will 'win' and the other will cease to exist? No, they'll both do fine and we'll have that much more population living in the core.

 

I agree, if you actually read what I'm saying you'll realize that I want/hope for the two sides of the river to compliment each other.  The fact is that it isn't happening right now, everyone is scrambling trying to one up the other or beat the other to the punch on development projects.  That's not productive in my book, and my hope is that it does get to the point where it is complimentary.

 

I'm honestly trying to understand this 'Us vs Them' mentality that many on this board take. Let's root for everything happening in the core, b/c w/ out NKY, Cincy is really only half a city. If people are so worried about NKY stealing Cincinnati companies/jobs then those same Cincinnati residents need to be lobbying city hall to make Cincy more competitive with the river cities. BTW, I think Cincinnati is doing just fine, thankyou.  I fail to see how any NKY developments have done irreperable harm to Cincinnati or vice versa for that matter.

 

Once again, read my comments and you'll see that I do want it to be an Us vs. Them mentality.  I am just observant of the fact that it is right now.  If you don't recognize that then fine, but don't go accusing me of Nky hating just because I notice an unhealthy relationship between Nky and Cincinnati right now.

 

I get geeked at every project that's announced or started on both sides of the river b/c I know that with each new project, our core is being strengthened.  And along w/ that comes an increase in the value of my property.

 

As do I...as long as they are quality projects.  I love The Ascent and what SouthShore represents...but just because it's new investment and new buildings doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to cream myself every time a new project is put on the table.  Especially if it is getting over-hyped in my opinion.

First of all when did I say I was "mad" about anything...furthermore, when did I say I was mad at the entire Nky region?

Well you did say you had "negative feelings" and were "bitter," usually people aren't happy with something when they use those phrases. But you're right, you didn't say you were mad at the entire NKY region, I was just taking this post along with several others by yourself on this topic where you had expressed similar negative feelings and bitterness.

 

I agree, if you actually read what I'm saying you'll realize that I want/hope for the two sides of the river to compliment each other.  The fact is that it isn't happening right now, everyone is scrambling trying to one up the other or beat the other to the punch on development projects.  That's not productive in my book, and my hope is that it does get to the point where it is complimentary.

This seems like such an subjective thing, developments being complimentary. I agree there is obviously no regional planning going on, but this is an instance where I think the free market and seperate governments are doing an OK job. I'll ask this point again, what specific projects, on either side of the river, have done irreparable harm to the other side? I'm not talking about, say for instance, the start of the banks possibly derailing the Ovation. But where planning by one side significantly decreased the investment in, or the quality of life on the other.

 

 

Once again, read my comments and you'll see that I do want it to be an Us vs. Them mentality.  I am just observant of the fact that it is right now.  If you don't recognize that then fine, but don't go accusing me of Nky hating just because I notice an unhealthy relationship between Nky and Cincinnati right now.

I know you don't want that mentality. I'm questioning the very existence of such a mentality in the real world, outside of this board. I think we have a lot of passionate people who see new developments in NKY as, at the worst, threats to Cincinnati, and at the best, stealing development dollars from where they think they could be spent better - in Cincinnati.

 

As do I...as long as they are quality projects.  I love The Ascent and what SouthShore represents...but just because it's new investment and new buildings doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to cream myself every time a new project is put on the table.  Especially if it is getting over-hyped in my opinion.

New projects are always over-hyped, but you simply have to judge what you're left with. I don't necessarily like Southshore, I hate how it has literally turned its back on KY and focused on the riverfront, but that's only natural, people pay for views of Cincy, not of the 471 exit ramp.

 

What I'm trying to say is that people tend to immediately criticize any new developments in NKY while gratuitously praising development in Cincinnati.  The bias was very plain from the day I started reading these boards, and I understand this is UrbanOhio and not UrbanKentucky, but it gets overwhelming at times.

 

I think it's unwarranted.

It is warrented because there is an orchestrated effort by the local media to fan this controversy.  How bad and how real is it?  First of all I know a fair number of people who were or are in the local media (for example a few of my uncles went to high school with Bob Driehaus, who wrote this article), and I was told by someone whose name I can't reveal who formerly worked that the Kentucky Enquirer that they were ordered to fill extra space with national and regional stories, not Cincinnati stories.  How bad is it?  The day after Queen City Square broke ground, there was no mention of it in the Kentucky Enquirer.  Now if the tallest building in the region was breaking ground in NK, do you think the Cincinnati Enquirer would cover it? 

 

Further, the media covers any and all development controversies in Cincinnati, but we didn't hear a peep when a public housing complex was upended so that Bill Butler could have the most prime piece of KY riverfront land for a development that will take quite awhile to get off the ground.  And it like all other KY riverfront developments (with the exception of Covington's Rivercenter, which blends into downtown Covington well), the developments stand as yuppie temples facing the river on one side and blue collar shotgun housing to the south.  The media totally ignores that when you get 2 blocks south of this division line, you're in meth hillbilly hell.     

 

 

First of all when did I say I was "mad" about anything...furthermore, when did I say I was mad at the entire Nky region?

Well you did say you had "negative feelings" and were "bitter," usually people aren't happy with something when they use those phrases. But you're right, you didn't say you were mad at the entire NKY region, I was just taking this post along with several others by yourself on this topic where you had expressed similar negative feelings and bitterness.

 

Yes I have "negative feelings" about how things are reported...as I mentioned in my original comment:

 

"My negative feelings towards Nky projects is that they typically come standard with the typical cheap shots at Cincinnati.  At the same time, the projects aren't much different from things going on on the Cincinnati side.  That's not a shot at Nky, just a comment."

 

And I mentioned I was "bitter" about a couple of projects that were stolen away from Cincinnati thanks to low-ball offers from Nky.  Here is the actual quote...

 

"I like The Ascent and most of the stuff that Covington does...but I could without Bill Butler taking pot shots at Cincinnati at every opportunity that presents itself.  NOTL bores me, and yes I'm bitter about Hofbrauhaus and Newport Aquarium being there instead of on the Cincinnati side.  I viewed it as being similar to the standard West Chester 15 year 100% tax abatement approach.  Newport low-balled Cincinnati and essentially stole the two projects right out from under Cincy."

 

As I stated already...if you actually read what I wrote you would understand what my position is, and why I feel the way I feel.  Quit over-simplifying my comments and generalizing them as Nky hating.  It's just not the case.

It is warrented because there is an orchestrated effort by the local media to fan this controversy.  How bad and how real is it?  First of all I know a fair number of people who were or are in the local media (for example a few of my uncles went to high school with Bob Driehaus, who wrote this article), and I was told by someone whose name I can't reveal who formerly worked that the Kentucky Enquirer that they were ordered to fill extra space with national and regional stories, not Cincinnati stories.  How bad is it?  The day after Queen City Square broke ground, there was no mention of it in the Kentucky Enquirer.  Now if the tallest building in the region was breaking ground in NK, do you think the Cincinnati Enquirer would cover it? 

 

Further, the media covers any and all development controversies in Cincinnati, but we didn't hear a peep when a public housing complex was upended so that Bill Butler could have the most prime piece of KY riverfront land for a development that will take quite awhile to get off the ground.  And it like all other KY riverfront developments (with the exception of Covington's Rivercenter, which blends into downtown Covington well), the developments stand as yuppie temples facing the river on one side and blue collar shotgun housing to the south.  The media totally ignores that when you get 2 blocks south of this division line, you're in meth hillbilly hell.     

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Throw the media out of this, I think everybody can agree that the Enquirer is a steaming pile. Have they fanned the controvsey? Sure, but who cares. Why should that immediately make you negative towards NKY? Because of your perceived notion that the Enquirer has it out for Cincy and not NKY? Give me a break.

 

Meth Hillbilly Hell? Really?

 

I'm not saying NKY is without problems, but that is some serious stereotyping you're engaging in.  NKY has some great urban neighborhoods, have you seen the rest of Newport? Bellevue? Dayton and Covington have some legitimate problems, but CVGs Mutter Gottes and Mainstrasse neighborhoods are fine. In fact, the reason I moved to NKY was because of the quality and affordability of their urban neighborhoods.

 

I'll give you an example from Bellevue since that's what I know. We have a few of those 'Yuppie Temples' you talk about. Harbor Green, Waters Edge. But they have had some great impacts on the neighborhood. Waters Edge, for one, has new townhomes on the street to help the development blend into the neighborhood. Harbor Green has the commercial building that has been lampooned (and probably correctly) for being off the street and having the Urban Active entrance on the back, but guess what? I now have a gym that takes me 4 minutes to walk to. Those yuppies are helping to keep in business the multiple art galleries, bistros/restaurants, and bakeries that make Bellevue awesome for the rest of us as well.

 

Get off your high horse bud.

Cincinnati recently fought for the IRS building/location to stay in Covington.  The Greater Cincinnati/Nky Airport is in Hebron, and TANK is allowed to parade all over Downtown streets.

 

Are these same types of good deeds returned?  Is it Newport's way of saying thank you by cock-blocking Cincinnati from trying to get the USS Cincinnati submarine located on the Ohio shore...and then offering an alternative for it to be located on Newport's shore?  How about the many times we hear a company, located Downtown, considering relocation.  What are always the potential relocation sites (Nky, Clermont County, Blue Ash)?  If the Nky communities were completely innocent and working towards collaborative efforts then these things wouldn't exist.  But it seems as though it is just a one-way street right now with Nky loving every minute of it.

"I know you don't want that mentality. I'm questioning the very existence of such a mentality in the real world, outside of this board."

 

Oh this is not just a mentality on this board at all.  The other week there was either a Citybeat or Pulse that had on the cover Cincy vs. NKY...Who is Winning the Riverfront Development Battle? People all over have an us vs them mentality with Kentucky. 

 

I too would be cautious in making such broad generalizations about NKY, because I think there are some really great neighborhoods in NKY such as Main Strasse in Covington and the old neighborhood on the Cov. waterfront.  I will say, however, that I think Jmeck is at least partially correct when he says that the new developments in the NKY river cities are completely different than everything else in those neighborhoods.  Newport without the Levee area is ghetto and trashy, Bellvue is a gritty neighborhood, but the new developments there are certainly not aimed at the current neighborhood residents.  I think this is fine, as these neighborhoods are perhaps changing, but there is a certain island effect going on with most of the NKY developments.

 

Meth hillbilly hell? Lol i wouldn't go that far, but I don't think I'd ever live in NKY...there is a tangible cultural difference when you cross the river.

Maybe, just maybe, could it be because NKY is playing the game better?

 

Cincinnati fought to keep the IRS building in Covington b/c they have a ton of Cincinnati workers there. I take one of the aformentioned parading TANK buses from downtown Cincy through Covington and let me tell you, it loads up w/ IRS workers downtown.

 

TANK is in Cincy b/c Metro refuses to go into KY, and because there is a need to move people between Cincy and NKY. The airport is in Hebron b/c where in the world would they find the land in Ohio that close to the city?

 

The more and more I read all this I'm getting the feeling that all these bad vibes are more because of perceived slights and alleged wrong-doings by KY than by anything tangible.

 

So Newport oggled to get the sub. How is competition bad? If you think NKY is beating the pants off of Cincy (which it really isn't, again, Cincy is doing just fine) then you should be writing Mallory or your councilmen to urge them to up the ante. NKY will then do the same. Win-Win.

edale I personally invite you to my house in Bellevue. We'll take a walk around (its only about one square mile) and then you can tell me if you think it's "Gritty."

 

Cincinnati Magazine named it one of the top 10 places to live last year. If you want gritty we'll walk through Dayton or up Eastern Avenue through Covington......

 

Newport without the levee is roughly half trash and half amazing historical neighborhood with incredibly high house prices. I was priced out of the Newport Historical district when I was first looking for a house.

>Why should that immediately make you negative towards NKY? Because of your perceived notion that the Enquirer has it out for Cincy and not NKY? Give me a break.

 

Because the perception being sold to suburbanites about Cincinnati versus the NKY river cities is not fair to Cincinnati. 

 

>Meth Hillbilly Hell? Really?

 

There's tons of drugs in NKY.  I've had more than a few encounters with irate crack and meth-heads in NKY.  I was pulled over in Covington last week for running a stop sign.  There was no stop sign, I was just being checked out, luckily they let me go.         

 

 

>have you seen the rest of Newport? Bellevue? Dayton and Covington

 

I've actually taken photos of every single structure in Cambell County (walked every street, even the big hills leading down to the river across from Coney Island) and I've driven every single street in Kenton and Boone counties.  Granted I was being paid alternately $17/hr to $25/hr to do so, but I have nevetheless seen every single street.  The mansions overlooking Lunken Airport, the American Legion Hall wedged between the tracks and the Licking River, Covington's trailer park down by 22nd St., Rabbit Hash, and everything in between.     

 

I really don't think it is one side is better than the other, or I am a developer, I have "x" amount of dolloars to spend and I rather do it in Kentucky.  I think it is moreso that there are several towns across the river that are developing, and it is due to them being smaller, more efficiently/easily run municipaities than Cincy.  Cincy is a big American city with all the "good ol boy" politics that occur in especially big east coast and midwest cities.  The towns across the river are almost suburbs of Cincy but happen to have riverfront views and skyline views.  It is just like developing anywhere.  The smaller towns will always have less hurdles to jump through for developers.  They also have less overhead than a big city and can offer more to a developer.  In the end, I think most urban dwellers would rather "be in the city than looking at the city" (I could overnight T-shirts down to Cincy CVB that say that if they would like). 

BTW, I was much more impressed with dt Cincy than I was Newport when we were down there this summer.  The Newport Levee was IMHO an urban planning nightmare.  It basically screamed, give sububanites something that they are used to, and they will come.  It was a mall, that's it, a mall.  When viewing it on the return trip across the bridge back into Ohio, it seriously looked like a brick warehouse that is taking up space on the water.  Everything in Cincy IMHO is much nicer than what is across the river. 

Cincinnati wanted to have the airport in Blue Ash when it became clear Lunken wasn't going to cut it. What put CVG ahead was the fact that it was able to get WWII flights that Lunken couldn't handle and it had plenty of empty/agricultural land around it. It was Covington that was force behind it. Boone Cty was just a bunch of poor folks then and continued to be into the 80s, when the airport and Florence started to take off.

 

On the broader issue, it is really the unneccessary snarky attacks on Cincy (that is nearly always carrying a racial subtext) in a great majority of regional discussions that drives a Cincinnatian nuts. Fort Thomas folks seem especially guilty of this. However, NKY has its insular culture (esp. the German Catholics) that exacerbate its uniqueness - they set themselves apart from the rest of the state they are in and from the Cincinnati region.

edale I personally invite you to my house in Bellevue. We'll take a walk around (its only about one square mile) and then you can tell me if you think it's "Gritty."

 

Cincinnati Magazine named it one of the top 10 places to live last year. If you want gritty we'll walk through Dayton or up Eastern Avenue through Covington......

 

Newport without the levee is roughly half trash and half amazing historical neighborhood with incredibly high house prices. I was priced out of the Newport Historical district when I was first looking for a house.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to offend with that comment, but Bellvue has historically been a working class neighborhood.  I have been there a few times and have played Basketball against Bellvue High before and the neighborhood has a gritty vibe to be sure.  Sort of a Norwood or Reading vibe.  Not saying there's anything wrong with that, or that there aren't nice parts, but overall it is more of a working class neighborhood. 

Sorry, didn't mean to offend with that comment, but Bellvue has historically been a working class neighborhood.  I have been there a few times and have played Basketball against Bellvue High before and the neighborhood has a gritty vibe to be sure.  Sort of a Norwood or Reading vibe.  Not saying there's anything wrong with that, or that there aren't nice parts, but overall it is more of a working class neighborhood. 

 

No offense taken, it definitely was/is working class but the demographics are changing rapidly. Can you give me an example of an urban neighborhood that you don't think is gritty? Other than Mt Adams of course.

 

I just have to say that I'm discouraged by the wholesale dismissal I'm seeing of some of the most unique and fascinating urban neighborhoods in the greater Cincinnati area. 

 

BTW, when have any of us on here cared what somebody in Ft Thomas, or Hyde Park, or Blue Ash, or Mason for that matter had to say about downtown Cincinnati? You can technically call Ft Thomas a river city but it's way up on the hill and they're not called cake eaters for nothing.

 

To the Cleveland guy, thanks for the kind words about downtown Cincinnati. I didn't think they let you guys admit stuff like that up by the lake. As for comparing it to Newport, that's like comparing downtown Cleveland to..... I don't know, Lima. Apples & Oranges.

So Newport oggled to get the sub. How is competition bad? If you think NKY is beating the pants off of Cincy (which it really isn't, again, Cincy is doing just fine) then you should be writing Mallory or your councilmen to urge them to up the ante. NKY will then do the same. Win-Win.

 

No it's not a "win-win" when you compete by low-balling the other.  What happens there is that the region and its taxpayers lose.  NOTL isn't living up to what it was projected to generate in tax revenues...money that was meant to go to Newport Public Schools and money meant to pay off construction debt just hasn't come out the way it was envisioned.  By offering these huge tax advantages/breaks to lure companies from one side of the river to another or from one part of the same metro to another aren't productive.  The communities lose potential tax revenue and financial stability while the region sees no additional gain from having the jobs/investment in one particular area or another.

 

Cincinnati fought to keep the IRS building in Covington b/c they have a ton of Cincinnati workers there. I take one of the aformentioned parading TANK buses from downtown Cincy through Covington and let me tell you, it loads up w/ IRS workers downtown.

 

You're right...a lot of Cincinnatians work there.  Just like a lot of people from Nky work for the companies located Downtown.  Nky should be encouraging those companies to stay Downtown when they float the idea of relocation, and not try to poach the businesses themselves.  There should be an agreement that no community, in the Cincinnati MSA, will offer incentives to businesses that are simply shuffling around the region.  When those incentives do happen then the region loses.  Those incentives should be saved for opportunities to bring new jobs/investment to the region that weren't there before.  In a nutshell, Cincinnati needs to fight for jobs in the 'burbs, Nky, and SE Indiana...and vice versa.

Let me ask you this, Rando.

 

Say such an agreement was in place. Don't you think that would drastically lower the overall attractivness of Cincinnati to those businesses already in the area.  I see a future of companies outgrowing their current digs, not seeing the deals in the area, and moving out altogether.

^Not if the region stays strong.    We already have some of the cheapest housing and land in the country.

Mayor Hickenlooper, of Denver, pushed for this early on after he was elected into office.  He went out and got other leaders (mayors, etc) throughout the Denver region to sign on to a pact that informally stated that they wouldn't "poach" businesses from one another.  If a company wanted to relocate then fine, but they wouldn't compete against one another for the same businesses.

 

He got regional buy-in and the project has been a success.  As a result Hickenlooper has also been able to pursue regional cooperation on a new rail proposal called FasTracks.  This proposal has gotten the endorsement of all 32 mayors in the Denver metro area.

 

For years, neighboring suburbs bragged about jobs and businesses they’d poached from Denver. Hickenlooper, however, made the effort to reach out to suburban leaders and has been smart about sharing credit. ‘He’s the best thing that’s happened to this metropolitan region since sliced bread was invented,’ says Noel Busck, mayor of the northern suburb of Thornton.

http://www.denvergov.org/Mayor/PressReleases/PressReleases1/tabid/390400/Default.aspx

Fair enough. Can we 'poach' Mayor Hickenlooper from Denver?

Indianapolis already has a regional no-compete agreement.  I'm not sure it is formal or not, but no regional city will offer incentives to an existing in-region company to relocate unless it gets a release letter from the current home town government first.  Actually, this happens more often than you might think.  Companies look to expand and often can't find the facility they want where they are currently located.  The Indianapolis Business Journal just took a negative view of the incentives that are often doled out in the name of "keeping businesses in the area" when they relocate.  However, there is very little bitterness between cities in terms of luring companies.  Everyone is on the same team.  There was a situation recently where Medco announced plans for a mail-order pharmacy operation to employ 1,300 and said they were picking Indianapolis, but held an in-region bake-off for the exact location.  (They eventually picked Whitestown in Boone County).  But these situations are very rare.

 

We could try, I think he is either originally from Cincy or his family was, they were the money behind CG&E - General Hickenlooper. He plays a big role in Boss Cox's Cincinnati by Zane Miller.

 

NKY tends to play a game in which they win something from Cincy (West Chester does the same with GE) and make this gigantic deal out of it. When a Cincy company sticks around, everyone just shrugs and goes on.

 

A little internal competition is probably good for the region, but the key is balance between competition and cooperation.

The regional no-compete thing needs to be done.  After reading Randos comment on Denver I was skeptical due to perhaps the different nature of local governments.  But Arenns comment about Indy demonstrates this can be doe in a Midwest metro, too, and across county lines.

 

 

there is a tangible cultural difference when you cross the river.

 

Not really. It depends on what part. I think the majority of people who live in Newport are not much different than people living in inner city Cincinnati. People in Covington tend to have ties to the west side of Cincy. People in Ludlow...well, they're in their own world LOL.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend with that comment, but Bellvue has historically been a working class neighborhood.  I have been there a few times and have played Basketball against Bellvue High before and the neighborhood has a gritty vibe to be sure.  Sort of a Norwood or Reading vibe.  Not saying there's anything wrong with that, or that there aren't nice parts, but overall it is more of a working class neighborhood. 

 

No offense taken, it definitely was/is working class but the demographics are changing rapidly. Can you give me an example of an urban neighborhood that you don't think is gritty? Other than Mt Adams of course.

 

I just have to say that I'm discouraged by the wholesale dismissal I'm seeing of some of the most unique and fascinating urban neighborhoods in the greater Cincinnati area. 

 

 

 

The following are just a few of the urban neighborhoods in greater Cincy that I wouldn't consider "gritty": Hyde Park, Main Strasse, Clifton (actual Clifton, not the generic "Clifton" that encompasses all of uptown), Pleasant Ridge, Oakley, Mt. Lookout, Covington's Historic Riverfront area, Columbia Tusculum, etc.  Seriously, I did not mean to imply that Bellvue was a bad neighborhood at all, and I believe you that it is quickly changing.  I was just saying that from my experiences in the neighborhood, I found it to be very blue collar-again not a bad thing.

 

And I hope you weren't including me in the list of people that write off NKY, because I think it's awesome that there are great riverfront neighborhoods in the Cincy region.  NKY is a great asset to the Cincy region, if only they would act like a friend rather than a foe most of the time.

Trust me I never took it that way.  It's just that I had come to the conclusion that unless you were willing to shell out mega bucks, you're most likely going to have a little grit mixed into your urban experience. 

 

I wouldn't necessarily call Hyde Park, Pleasant Ridge, Oakley or Mt Lookout urban neighborhoods......I've always seen them as attractive, well planned, 1st gen suburbs (wider lots, bigger yards etc...) but I know what you mean.

 

I've actually lived in both Mt Lookout and Hyde Park and I would have bought a house in one of those neighborhoods except I realized I didn't have $4 million to my name. Oh well... I also lived in Clifton when I was 17/18, so I'm sure you're talking about the gas light district and not the part I lived in (on Victor). First night my friends and I moved in there was a burning couch in the middle of our street, turned out to not be a regular occurence but a nice welcome to the neighborhood anyway.

 

Bellevue attracted me b/c it has a fantastic mix of all types of demographics, plus that main street shopping ala Hyde Park, Oakley square etc...Plus low crime and a still healthy housing market.

^ I just sold a nice sized house in Mt. Lookout (5 min. walking distance from MTL square) in the low $200k range. Not bad for a neighborhood with that reputation and stability.

^ No not at all. That's fantastic even. Is it down Delta from the square?