FYI:Check out Denver Transit. They have a zone fare system for the light rail. Can something like this be used in Cleveland? The central city has a cheeper fare.

One nice thing:  a lot of delegates to the DNC will get a look at one of the nation's better transit and rail systems.

^Yes, and one that's aggressively expanding its rail system to about 120 miles in the near future, including planned ELECTRIC commuter rail lines... all called FasTracks... See:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FasTracks

 

And all this, without having a metro area of extremely high density... did you hear that, Mr. Calabrese?  (ya know, it'd sure be worth the public $$ to junket JoeC to Denver to check it out).

^ I wouldn't hold up FasTracks as a shining example of light rail right now. The plan to construct the regional rail system there is seriously over budget and will probably have to be scaled back substantially.

 

See: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/25/fastracks-manager-to-step-down-for-new-job/

^ I wouldn't hold up FasTracks as a shining example of light rail right now. The plan to construct the regional rail system there is seriously over budget and will probably have to be scaled back substantially.

 

See: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/25/fastracks-manager-to-step-down-for-new-job/

 

While John is right that FasTracks (like most transit systems in the US) is over budget and/or underfunded (and may not be able to build its entire envisioned system by its current deadline) its still one of the best systems in the US. They currently have 5 light rail lines up and running, 1 more light rail line under construction (west), and have started phase one on the BRT line to Boulder. They also have started utility work on the new Union Station transit hub with full construction starting early in 2010. Here is the latest powerpoint showing the design of the complex. It will include facilities for light rail, commuter rail, Amtrak (California Zephyr), Ski Train, buses and the 16th street mall clean air shuttles.

http://denverunionstation.com/pdfs/dec17_present/mtng_121709_fullpresent.pdf

 

Also, not Denver rail related but, Colorado transit related.

Fort Collins has begun work on their new BRT line in the core of the city (5 miles). There is a video on the opening page showing the system.

http://www.fcgov.com/mason/

I hope to get out to Denver to examine their transit system for myself sometime in 2010.  I often view Denver and Minneapolis as being almost twin cities, so it will be interesting to research and compare the two to see in fact if they do measure up in such a way.

I hope to get out to Denver to examine their transit system for myself sometime in 2010.  I often view Denver and Minneapolis as being almost twin cities, so it will be interesting to research and compare the two to see in fact if they do measure up in such a way.

 

Hope you get a chance to visit. I think Denver and Minneapolis do have a lot in common (outside of the mountains). But, I think Denver has more active urban neighborhoods, more TOD development and a much larger mass transit system. I think the cultural scene and their downtown's are very equal. (Just an observation, not trying to start a who is better discussion). I like both.

I lived in Denver for six years and travel to MSPL frequently, the two cities have virtually nothing in common.  Overall, Denver (especially the inner 'burbs) has a plastic feel, MSPL is much more unique with its Scandanavian influences.

I lived in Denver for six years and travel to MSPL frequently, the two cities have virtually nothing in common. Overall, Denver (especially the inner 'burbs) has a plastic feel, MSPL is much more unique with its Scandanavian influences.

 

I think your posts have made it clear you don't like Denver and you are glad you know longer live here. Denver's urban neighborhoods are anything but 'plastic feeling'. But, to each their own.

I'm going to end this Minneapolis vs. Denver debate right now.  Lets keep it respectful everyone...I was just trying to say that I look forward to exploring both cities, who by many, view them as having many similarities.

ragerunner,

 

Do you have any images of Denver's light rail system, or the other transit systems you mentioned above, that you could share with us?

Images of transit systems all over the world can be found here, including Denver and Minneapolis.

ragerunner,

 

Do you have any images of Denver's light rail system, or the other transit systems you mentioned above, that you could share with us?

 

I have some pics, but the links Living in Gin posted are much better and more comprehensive. Currently Denver has about 39 miles of light rail. With another 12 miles under construction with the west line.

^ I wouldn't hold up FasTracks as a shining example of light rail right now. The plan to construct the regional rail system there is seriously over budget and will probably have to be scaled back substantially.

 

See: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/25/fastracks-manager-to-step-down-for-new-job/

 

I wouldn't necessarily look at FasTracks of the moment.  Fact is, almost all large rail transit builds face some overbudgeting, controversy and slowdowns.  If you look at DC's shining 107-mile Metro and think it was smoothly dropped in place, you'd be badly mistaken... ditto with Dallas' quickly unfolding DART.  Denver may have temporarily stubbed its toe, but it already has made substantial progress and I believe all or most of its projected system will be built.  Most transit planners plan beyond what they actually believe will be realized, and only few cities achieve or even surpass what they''ve planned: DC and San Fransico are the only 2 that come to mind...  Progress is never achieved without struggle and some empty pockets along the way... but as the saying goes: if there is a WILL there is a way.

Denver's Union Station Transit Hub secures final funding ($480 million - cost doesn't include the private investment only the transit public costs). Construction will begin within the next month or so.

 

Here are some picks of the project.

 

 

 

 

 

That looks amazing.  I'll probably be in Denver mid to late March...so I'll definitely have to check out this and more when I come.  Oh yeah, I fully expect a mini tour of some sorts too.

Denver lands $80 million dollar grant from FEDs for rail. More excepted next year.

 

Feds deliver on loans and grants RTD needs for FasTracks

 

"FasTracks’ federal funding picture came into sharper focus today as the Federal Transit Administration announced it will provide the sought-after $304 million in loans toward the conversion of Denver Union Station into a regional commuter rail hub.

 

FTA Administrator Peter Rogoff, who traveled to Denver for the announcement, also said that by including $80 million in grants to the two commuter rail corridors to Denver International Airport and Arvada-Wheat Ridge in President Obama’s proposed 2011 budget, the feds are sending a clear signal that they intend to sign agreements with RTD, likely next year, to provide New Starts grants for the East Corridor and Gold Line commuter rail projects."

http://www.inside-lane.com/2010/02/05/feds-deliver-on-loans-and-grants-rtd-needs-for-fastracks/

WOWzers

See what you get when you have VISION.

Among a variety of things, I'm in love with Denver's proposed transit hub that includes light rail, commuter rail, bus, and more.

 

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/07/a-grand-gateway-for-denvers-transit-users/

 

 

 

With all funds now secured, construction equipment and work has now begun on the $480 million dollar transit hub. Its going to be really fun watching this massive project get built over the next 4 years. I hope we see a lot more of these mass transit hubs constructed in the US.

Things are really starting to take shape for Denver's transit system. Denver now has under construction or under bid, the west light rail line, the BRT system on highway 36 (towards Boulder), the Union Station transit hub, and these 3 new communter rail lines.

 

RTD Board selects Denver Transit Partners for Eagle P3, FasTracks’ single largest contract

 

"Denver, June 15, 2010 – The Regional Transportation District (RTD) has selected Denver Transit Partners for the single largest FasTracks contract to build and operate commuter rail lines to Denver International Airport (DIA), Arvada-Wheat Ridge and south Westminster."

 

"Denver Transit Partners’ proposal is $300 million lower than RTD’s budget estimate and it plans to open the line to DIA by January 2016, 11 months ahead of RTD’s deadline. Denver Transit Partners’ proposal along with RTD’s project costs total $2.085 billion, compared with RTD’s budget estimate of $2.385 billion. The RTD “best-value” evaluation rated it both the higher technical proposal and the lower cost proposal of the two bidding teams."

 

“It is a remarkable achievement for RTD to get a project of this magnitude through a public-private partnership that meets our goal of contracting under our budget and ahead of our schedule,” said RTD Chair Lee Kemp. “We said three years ago that public-private partnerships would be a vital part of keeping our FasTracks program moving forward. The decision tonight shows that the faith placed in us by the Federal Transit Administration and our stakeholders through some difficult times was justified has been rewarded.”

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/uploads/main/MEDIA_RELEASE20100615RTD_Board_Selects_Denver_Transit_Partners_as_Eagle_P3_Concessionaire.pdf

See what you get when you have VISION.

 

And money....

 

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/main_1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FasTracks

See what you get when you have VISION.

 

And money....

 

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/main_1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FasTracks

We had money and but didn't spend it because of lack of vision.

Cleveland never had $6.5 billion for capital expansion. That was the amount approved by Denver voters in 2004.

 

If you want this city to have a vision for the future, then step up to the plate. Create a vision for a similar program in Northeast Ohio and put it on the ballot like they did in Denver.

Cleveland never had $6.5 billion for capital expansion. That was the amount approved by Denver voters in 2004.

Cleveland never will get that kind of money if our leadership cannot use the money they have wisely, create a vision for what they'd do with that kind of cash, and then convince the public (or at least a good portion of the public) that their vision is a good use of those funds. RTA has just proven incapable of using the grant money they have wisely. While there are a handful of leaders around the area with a vision, everyone seems to have their own vision, they aren't working together and they aren't making a compelling case to the public. 

Dude, you're missing my point. Be the leadership you want for the city. Don't wait for the future from your armchair. Stop with the "they" and make it happen yourself. You're a smart, motivated man. Use it.

Another major piece of Denver's mass transit system was unveiled today and it will add a great new piece of architecture to the city. I really like the design and how it fits into the airport.

 

Calatrava unveils DIA plans

 

"Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava today unveiled designs for the first phase of Denver International Airport's south terminal redevelopment and he said they complement the airport's best-known architectural element — its terminal with the white-tented roof."

 

"The south terminal project's first phase, which is expected to cost as much as $650 million, includes a commuter-rail station, a public plaza that links with the existing terminal, and a 500-room airport hotel."

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_15625013

 

 

 

For more pics. http://www.denverpost.com/ci_15625013

Quick look at what is currently under construction or will be by next year.

This will add another 48 miles of rail to the current 35 miles (83 miles total).

 

Eight projects under construction in next 18 months:

–West Corridor: more than 50% complete

–ElatiLight Rail Maintenance Facility: currently

–Denver Union Station: currently

–East Corridor (to DIA): currently

–Commuter Rail Maintenance Facility: currently

–Gold Line: 2011

–Northwest Rail (to Westminster): 2011

–US 36 BRT Phase 2 Projects (Managed lanes from Federal to Wadsworth, Table Mesa Pedestrian Bridge and Queue Jumps): 2011

-Transit Hub at DIA; currently

FasTracks is amazing in its growth, esp considering Denver's population density (3,900/sq. mi) compared to Cleveland's 6,100/sq. mi (although we may dip below 6,000 after the new census is talied where Cleveland likely will slip under 400K)... I believe Denver's new Gold Line to DIA will be America's 1st new-start electric commuter railroad since the Depression.

Sorry, but I'm getting antsy again, and the "if they're doing it, why not us?" bug is biting me.  Similarly sized, though less dense (even with our severe population losses)-- but growing, Denver is now adding 3 electrified commuter rail lines to its arsenal of it brand-new and sharply growing LRT network -- yes that beautiful and amazing (esp for America) budding mega-rail network called Fastracks... But is it just me? ... Again, Denver is building something we already have in Cleveland: a downtown rail terminal with fully electrified ingress/egress to/from both sides of town.  And I know we've discussed the big costs, but with this asset Cleveland is sitting on that, btw, has ample track/platform capacity for sharply increased traffic (remember the extant yet dormant Shaker tracks and platforms sealed up in Tower City's bowels... [oh, and did I mention that Tower City has the natural advantage over Denver’s historic Union Station in being right at the hub of downtown/ the traffic/transit crossroads of downtown and the entire region, while Denver’s Union Station sits at the edge of their downtown -- its almost really not downtown at all, but in a kind part wasteland, part Warehouse district-y type area—Denver planners hope the rebuild will pull downtown toward the terminal and be rebuilt around it as the new direction of growth]

 

Yeah, I know extending electrified rapid/commuter rail out the West Shore corridor and southeast to Aurora/Bainbridge or maybe Akron Canton will cost a ton... but it would be a LOT MORE if we had to build/rebuild our central rail terminal, like Denver, to accommodate electric rail while suppressing is surface tracks. 

My reason for revisiting this now are these:

 

1. Oil, once again shown to be both finite and beyond our reasonable control, is shooting sky high at the pumps again (and with the increasingly unstable Middle East, who knows how high we're going to go -- and NO, no wildlife preserve American drilling or tapping deeply into our reserves just for the usu short-term fix.

 

2. we've been clearly lied to by kasich and other republicans in killing 3-C... Why not stick such a sensible, reasonable plan like building a Cleveland electrified, Tower City centered commuter rail network in their face and FORCE them to tap dance... now, with added scrutiny.

 

3.  Because of 2, Obama/LaHood would jump at the chance to raise this Cleveland plan up on a pedestal to the nation.

 

4. the electric rail base, power supply and maintenance facilities already exist.

 

5. Cleveland has a wealth of lightly used to partially/fully abandoned rail routes radiating from downtown feeding directly into our electrified rapid rail trunk lines directly into downtown,

 

6.. Downtown Cleveland, esp with the Med Mart and casino, is on a serious roll and bucking to be a regional attraction once again.

 

7. Cleveland's 1st in the nation's heavy-rail, airport rapid would directly tie into this regional commuter network adding further viability.

 

There are surely more, but my fingers are tired... Yeah, I know what the response will be…  it'll cost… a lot!  But as we know, the potential benefits would be gigantic (surely Denver understands this, that’s why the city fathers, and their excited citizenry, are putting down the big bucks to, in their words, solidify the long-term growth of their region... but damnit, for once can't we have the attitude that you've give something to GET SOMETHING.... If Denver can do it (with little more going for it than a few nice looking mountains in its background, but surrounded by a bunch of bland and scrubby looking suburbs, compared to Cleveland's gorgeous, character-rich and diverse towns, ... why not us?

 

For those that might be interested, below is a link to the Union Station development. It include webcams. The first phase of the project, the light rail platforms will open this summer. Also opening this year will be the underground regional bus facility.

 

http://denverunionstation.org/

 

Recent construction pic.

Photo from - http://denverinfill.com/

 

Construction has also begun on a new office tower across the street that will be home to Davita, a fortune 500 company that is relocating to Denver from California.

 

Photo from - http://denverinfill.com/

^ Cool project, meh building, odd bridge support.  Looks way bigger than the bridge itself.

 

^^ clvlndr, you know the answer.  Our muckety-mucks are pursuing alternative directions for our transit system.  Instead of capitalizing on our existing rail infrastructure, we're building new infrastructure for buses.

^^Nice job ragerunner --- very informative.

 

^Yeah, I know 327.  It's frustrating ...But we also know Denver is planning a (as in one single) BRT route in its FasTracks network.  RTA is, under Joe Calabrese no less, moving ahead with expansion plans (very preliminary now, but progressing nonetheless) for the Blue Line south/southeast.  So there is some hope.  I just think we must keep the pressure up, because, as I noted, our dependence on foreign oil must be curbed, Cleveland could benefit on the high density rebirth rail can spawn and, as the recent Census shows, the suburban growth in this region is right along the proposed West Shore commuter line (esp Avon & Avon Lake in Lorain County) as well as the SE line into Portage county.  And I can't stress enough how we must stick it in the public's face how Kasich lied about/distorted the facts about the 3-C line, which statewide would have had a similar (extremely positive) economic impact as a regional rapid/commuter rail network (preferably largely electrified) in our metropolitan region.  Again its mindboggling (I'm shaking my head as I type) that Denver is investing $billions to build the platform we already have in place...

 

327, we MUST keep asking the questions.

Denver's RTD secures another billion dollars for its rail projects.

 

Federal grant gives billion-dollar boost to RTD, Aurora light rail work

 

"There will be more money for light rail work in Aurora due to a large federal grant benefiting Regional Transportation District.

 

RTD board members got word July 27 of a $1.03-billion federal grant they were awarded in order to help pay for the East Corridor commuter rail from Denver to Denver International Airport and the Gold Line from Denver to Arvada and Wheat Ridge."

http://www.aurorasentinel.com/email_push/news/article_e8a135be-b873-11e0-bf9e-001cc4c002e0.html

RTD board OKs hotel plan for Denver Union Station

 

"The transit agency’s board voted 14-0, with one abstention, in support of a $48 million proposal by a consortium called Union Station Alliance (USA), said RTD assistant general manager Scott Reed.

 

The USA plan calls for redeveloping the upper levels of the historic train depot as a 130-room hotel, with retail and restaurants on the ground floor."

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2011/12/20/rtd-board-approves-hotel-plan-for.html

 

 

Quick update.

 

A new website for the private sector development team that is working on Union Station is now available.

http://www.unionstationdenver.com/development/#/overview

 

The project is moving along rapidly with the underground bus terminal nearing completion and the west end light rail area now open. I hope to take some pics in the next few weeks.

Here are the newest designs of the rail station and new Westin Hotel at Denver International Airport that has been released. The project(s) are now under construction with the hotel opening in 2015 and the rail line and station opening in January 2016.

 

 

 

 

 

And here is a look at three of the buildings going up at Denver's Union Station. The first is a new luxury apartment tower (ground floor retail) and the other two will be located on the north and southsides of the historic station building.

 

 

 

 

 

Source - http://denverinfill.com/blog/category/transportation/transit/page/2

Source - http://denverinfill.com/blog/2012/05/union-station-district-project-update-cadence-apartments.html

 

Some updated photos from the Denver Union Station area. The transit center will open in 2014.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The this is the last main line that needed to be funded. Now all that is left is the potential commuter line to Longmont (which alternatives are being discussed). Denver will have almost their entire system up and running by 2018. Pretty impressive for a metro of less than 3 million. It is changing the region and its development patterns in a big way.

 

RTD board approves North Rail Line

"A $343 million contract to build the North Metro Rail Line from Denver Union Station to 124th Avenue was approved Tuesday night by the Regional Transportation District board of directors."

"Contractors have committed to finish the line to 124th by January 2018."

"The construction to 124th will be built with the funding that RTD currently has available, which will serve the majority of the projected ridership for the corridor, say RTD officials."

Read more: RTD board approves North Rail Line - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24608054/rtd-board-approves-north-rail-line#ixzz2ls5PbGX2

Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

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^Indeed this is extremely impressive for a mid-sized metropolitan area.  It’s only slightly larger, population-wise, than greater Cleveland although it’s also slightly more compact – partly because greater Denver is hemmed in by the Rockies, especially to the West … I'm roughly figuring that this new contract will ensure Denver will have about have a system of close to 100 miles of LRT and electrified commuter rail.  It’s also noteworthy in that, when the 4 line commuter rail system begins opening in 2016 (the East, Gold and North (stub) and Northwest (stub) lines) it will be the 1st new electrified commuter rail system in the country since the Depression when the last of the New York and Philadelphia area commuter lines were electrified…

 

It’s going to be a bit of an odd fish, with the electric commuter rail lines generally on the North side of the city while the LRT lines are to the South – and with the bulk of the system converging at Union Station.  This means that, without a dual-operating, through-routing LRT vehicle sometime in the future, all North-South through passengers will be forced to transfer at Union Station.  This will particularly impact airport commuter rail passengers who will likely have luggage.  The planned FasTracks maps have the next leg to be funded will expansion of the T-Rex LRT route north along I-225 to a transfer terminal at the Peoria station on the East commuter rail line to the airport.  That will at least save some southern suburbanites the hassle of having to go all the way downtown to Union station to make the transfer.

 

Despite the minor flaws, Denver’s bullish-ness on ail is nothing short of amazing.  Hopefully many other cities’ officials will be watching Denver for inspiration and ideas, especially its innovative Eagle (P3) public-private partnership financing arrangement.

 

I haven't been there but from what I can see on Google Earth I'm not impressed.  Lines that follow interstate highways are fast but can never have the sort of effect on established commercial corridors and neighborhood centers as can street-running lines or subways. 

 

 

I haven't been there but from what I can see on Google Earth I'm not impressed.  Lines that follow interstate highways are fast but can never have the sort of effect on established commercial corridors and neighborhood centers as can street-running lines or subways. 

 

Denver made a choice: it decided to build a high-speed, far-ranging, radial hub/spokes commuter rail system to connect wide areas of its sprawling, light-density, heretofore car-oriented metro area to its very strong, and still growing downtown.  Does it miss some of Denver’s few walking areas, such as East Colfax, with its many old and new apartment complexes east of the Capitol dome?  Yes.  Much like other cities (see Cleveland), it punked out and decided not to tunnel under Colfax, it’s main drag.  But I can’t begrudge it exploiting its grade-separating resources out of downtown: freeway corridors and railroad ROWs.  Greater Denver does not have a wealth of dense walking areas, yet the new FasTracks network does reach some of them, i.e. the old 5-points neighborhood NE of downtown (from the looks of Google street views, is a transitional Detroit-Shoreway type district), and in the burbs: downtown Littleton and Old Town Arvada. 

 

Denver’s commuter rail network is not unprecedented among older systems of the world.  It’s kinda like a smaller scale version of Sydney Australia’s City Rail, a huge, electrified commuter rail network connecting a sprawling, low-density metro area.  Note: Denver, despite its strong in-city growth in recent years, is still less dense (by about 1,000 people per sq. mile) than rapidly shrinking Cleveland.  I remain very much in awe of what they’re doing, transit-wise, out in the Rockies.

 

Note: Denver, despite its strong in-city growth in recent years, is still less dense (by about 1,000 people per sq. mile) than rapidly shrinking Cleveland.  I remain very much in awe of what they’re doing, transit-wise, out in the Rockies.

 

 

Although the city as a whole might be less dense due to its topography, at a neighborhood level, Denver has neighborhoods with density way higher than anything in Cleveland

Although the city as a whole might be less dense due to its topography, at a neighborhood level, Denver has neighborhoods with density way higher than anything in Cleveland

 

I think you’re way off.  Downtown Denver and some close in areas (E. Colfax, Santa Fe)  have density, but the bulk of Denver is single family homes (including many ranch-style homes and shotguns) on roomy lots.  Buckeye-Shaker, Clark-Fulton, Little Italy-UC, Edgewater/Cudell and Detroit-Shoreway, among a few Cleveland neighborhoods, trump all but those few Denver neighborhoods.

^The Denver area's weighted population density (essentially the density experienced by the average person, rather than the average square mile) is substantially higher than the Cleveland area's.  And between 2000 and 2010, the Cleveland area's weighted density dropped like a brick, among the most of any metro areas in the country. Raw data is here: http://www.census.gov/population/metro/files/CBSA%20Report%20Chapter%203%20Data.xls.

 

Alternatively you can look at traditional population density by distance from city hall (a proxy for metro center) to focus on the metro's core, and Denver is much denser than Cleveland within three miles of city hall, slightly less dense between 3 and 7 miles, and then denser once again the farther you go out.  http://www.census.gov/dataviz/visualizations/054/508.php

 

 

I can tell you that the density is rapidly growing in the core of the city and along the rail lines. This is significantly changing the region and many of its development patterns. Downtown Denver and surrounding neighborhoods (1.5 mile radius) have completed or have under construction over 5,000 multi family residential units (since 2012), with about another 2,000 planned. Denver and its metro will be a much more dense urban place in the future and a lot of it has to do with the rail investment taking place.

I think another big positive is how this is and will change how many of the Denver region's residents get around (not just a car).

This is a video of apparently their newest line.  Extensive single-tracking and an oppressively dull low-density landscape:

 

I don't get it, people.  This line takes a circuitous route through one non-descript suburb after another, with not even a single station that appears to serve an existing commercial district in a natural way. 

This is a video of apparently their newest line.  Extensive single-tracking and an oppressively dull low-density landscape:

 

I don't get it, people.  This line takes a circuitous route through one non-descript suburb after another, with not even a single station that appears to serve an existing commercial district in a natural way.

Oppressively dull, couldn't agree more.

Although the city as a whole might be less dense due to its topography, at a neighborhood level, Denver has neighborhoods with density way higher than anything in Cleveland

 

I think you’re way off.  Downtown Denver and some close in areas (E. Colfax, Santa Fe)  have density, but the bulk of Denver is single family homes (including many ranch-style homes and shotguns) on roomy lots.  Buckeye-Shaker, Clark-Fulton, Little Italy-UC, Edgewater/Cudell and Detroit-Shoreway, among a few Cleveland neighborhoods, trump all but those few Denver neighborhoods.

 

Im not guessing though, Im looking at statistics on a census tract level. They blow us away. Alot of there near south side neighborhoods are at over 15,000 people per square mile, with a couple over 20,000 people per square mile. Cleveland's highest around around Shaker Square at 13,000 per square mile.

 

And Cleveland is mostly full of single family houses. Even in our most popular "urban" neighborhoods such as Tremont, Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, etc.

 

This is a video of apparently their newest line.  Extensive single-tracking and an oppressively dull low-density landscape:

 

I don't get it, people.  This line takes a circuitous route through one non-descript suburb after another, with not even a single station that appears to serve an existing commercial district in a natural way.

Oppressively dull, couldn't agree more.

 

I would think that same camera angle on the red line would look much worse.

 

Denver has to be doing something right. Their light rail ridership last year was 20,639,000. Cleveland's was 9095.7