Posted May 31, 200817 yr Exit lane for Western Bowl? Family might sell long-running facility to make way for retail http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/06/02/story4.html Cincinnati's first family of bowling might rack the pins for the last time this year. A Tennessee developer has retained an option to purchase Western Bowl from the Hoinke family. The 68-lane house is Cincinnati's largest bowling alley. It annually draws about 15,000 people from all over the world to a 10-month tournament, the Hoinke Classic, one of the nation's largest privately sponsored bowling tournaments. "This is not a done deal; however, it is an offer that is extremely attractive and will be hard to pass up if all the pieces fall into place," wrote Russ Hoinke in a May 15 post on a Pro Bowlers Association message board. "The Hoinke Tournament is still successful and fortunately is not the problem. Open bowling is way down, league bowling is terrible and the surrounding area is getting worse. These factors have all contributed to us exploring other options."
May 31, 200817 yr Yeah, this is pretty terrible news. I don't it get. Am I missing something, I don't think that area has gotten "bad". I keep hearing rumors that the homes nearby are a becoming a prime Section 8 target. Has Sec. 8 moved into the area?
June 1, 200817 yr Yeah, this is pretty terrible news. I don't it get. Am I missing something, I don't think that area has gotten "bad". I keep hearing rumors that the homes nearby are a becoming a prime Section 8 target. Has Sec. 8 moved into the area? I don't understand this either. My sister just moved into the neighborhood behind Western Bowl a year or so ago now. The neighborhood is a great starter for new couples and young families. I don't see this as being a Section 8 target, nor have I heard those rumors. The building stock, in the area, is primarily single-family that would not lend itself very well to multi-unit conversions. I see Section 8 as a long shot at best.
June 1, 200817 yr Yeah, this is pretty terrible news. I don't it get. Am I missing something, I don't think that area has gotten "bad". I keep hearing rumors that the homes nearby are a becoming a prime Section 8 target. Has Sec. 8 moved into the area? No, but there are plenty of people over here who see a black person waiting on a bus on Glenway and IMMEDIATELY believe, that determines the pulse of this neighborhood. The Hoinke's obviously think that (plus bowling alley's are going the way of the Roller Rinks and Arcades). Here, I thought these people had class, but from there statement about the area, I was clearly wrong. The Westside from Bridgetown to Covedale is still in very good shape, but the demographics are still changing like they were 20 years ago. Section 8 moved into Bridgetown 10-15 years ago and while it was met with resistance, it really never spread past the homes originally purchased. They did pretty good at spreading it out throughout the neighborhood streets. One Sec 8 home on my parents street have a black family that moved in 5 years ago and the house in maintained better than most of the owners and three renters on the street. People over here are petrified that the problems that have spread through Price Hill are ultimately going to make ALL of Glenway like Warsaw. We all know we have alot of freeloaders in our local society, but I don't believe we have that many, plus not to change the subject but I have gotten two new neighbors near my house. --- Both couples had former addresses in Indiana. I think the current economy issues will play a greater roll in transforming and redefining the Westside in the coming decade. To answer the question about how much Sec 8 exists, - - I would say no more than 10 years ago for Bridgetown and Cheviot, but Westwood, Covedale, and West Price Hill have changed a bit. The Section 8 issue weather you believe in it or not, NEEDS to be a regional problem and NOT dumped on entire communities.
June 1, 200817 yr Yeah, this is pretty terrible news. I don't it get. Am I missing something, I don't think that area has gotten "bad". I keep hearing rumors that the homes nearby are a becoming a prime Section 8 target. Has Sec. 8 moved into the area? I just read the article about Western Bowl. How can the area be bad if the land itself is worth more than the bowling alley? And didn't the article mention that the average family income in the area is increasing? My brother bowls in several leagues throughout the year. He had given up on Western Bowl several years ago for league bowling, and another friend said that the Hoinke kids aren't running the place as well as it used to be run. One of my friends lives in the neighborhood behind Western Bowl. She had told me a rumor about section 8 several years ago. I was under the impression that her sources over this information aren't 100% accurate.
June 1, 200817 yr My brother bowls in several leagues throughout the year. He had given up on Western Bowl several years ago for league bowling, and another friend said that the Hoinke kids aren't running the place as well as it used to be run. True! Spoiled brats that will run it into the ground before they so much as even think, " Hey, this type of business is not going to be around much longer, ----maybe we should be thinking of something else unique for this locale." Instead, they bash the neighborhood in the same article that they are announcing that they want to sell. It's good to see children of rich people are so well educated. One of my friends lives in the neighborhood behind Western Bowl. She had told me a rumor about section 8 several years ago. I was under the impression that her sources over this information aren't 100% accurate. I promise you, most of the small amount (I think the number is .16% of Green Twp. Saw that chart on another thread on this forum but can't find it again) Sec. 8 houses have been in place for 10-15 years. The only difference is most of the restaurant/retail jobs along Glenway are hiring more minorities (many of which USE public transportation). Someone told me that Western Hills Plaza looks rougher this year than in the past. (and they were basing that solely on the fact of 10-12 people were standing at a bus stop with Kroger, Staples, Taco Bell, and a and a KFC shirt on.) I'll let you guess what race they were!!! Plus, half of it is torn down and under construction, thus breathing new life into an area that I will agree desperately needs it.????????????? What don't some people get? 1st - The new owners of the WHP kicked the buses and their 4-5 stops in the complex out to Glenway 2 years ago. ( hence, why their are more people on the Glenway stops and not in front of Bed Bath & Beyond) 2nd - Heaven forbid, any of the families with money in the area (and there are alot) make their kids work in such appalling conditions. :mrgreen: :angel:
June 2, 200817 yr I know this is not directly relevant to this thread but the issue of Sec 8 seems to come up in many different threads here. All red fall into what a Westsider considers "The Westside" This is from 2005 and is sort of meant to give a bird's eye view of why I say, (Mr. Bill Cunningham) The westside is not totally (and never will) be "A Total Loss" It's too friggin big!! Neighborhood Vouchers as % of All Housing Units Avondale 9.46% Bond Hill 4.63% California 0.00% Camp Washington 5.61% Carthage 3.66% Clifton 0.88% College Hill 5.29% Columbia Tusculum 0.13% Corryville 5.21% East End 2.62% East Price Hill 9.12% East Walnut Hills 3.15% Evanston 8.11% Fairview 3.58% Fay Apartments 17.32% Hartwell 2.12% Hyde Park 0.10% Kennedy Heights 4.43% Linwood 0.97% Lower Price Hill 8.14% Madisonville 4.38% Mt. Adams 0.00% Mt. Airy 12.37% Mt. Auburn 8.97% Mt. Lookout 0.00% Mt. Washington 0.52% N. Fairmount (English Woods) 5.19% Northside 6.37% Oakley 0.68% Over- the- Rhine 14.16% Paddock Hills 5.03% Pleasant Ridge 6.53% Queensgate - Riverfront (CBD) 0.20% Riverside 2.18% Roselawn 9.11% S. Cumminsville (Millvale) 5.34% S. Fairmount 31.31% Sayler Park 1.04% Sedamsville 7.12% University Heights 1.00% Walnut Hills 8.74% West End 5.02% West Price Hill 3.77% Westwood 4.98% Winton Hills 6.84% Winton Place 7.11% Amberly Village 0.15% Anderson Twp. 0.06% Arlington Heights 4.35% Blue Ash 0.20% Cheviot 1.08% Colerain Twp. 0.58% Columbia Twp. 0.15% Crosby Twp. 0.10% Deer Park 0.38% Delhi Twp. 0.24% Elmwood Place 4.15% Evandale 0.00% Fairfax 0.26% Forest Park 3.31% Glendale 0.86% Golf Manor 9.14% Green Twp. 0.16% Greenhills 0.80% Harrison Twp. 0.53% Lincoln Heights 7.09% Lockland 4.70% Loveland 0.24% Madeira 0.55% Mariemont 0.14% Miami Twp. (Cleves/Addyston) 0.84% Milford 0.00% Montgomery 0.06% Mt. Healthy 2.06% Newtown 0.11% North College Hill 3.45% Norwood 2.45% Reading 0.72% Sharonville 0.04% Silverton 3.21% Springdale 2.41% Springfield Twp. 6.90% St. Bernard 1.40% Sycamore Twp. 0.26% Symmes Twp. 0.06% Terrace Park 0.00% Whitewater Twp. 0.33% Woodlawn 1.83% Wyoming 0.31% TOTAL: 3.04% % of All Assisted City 5.27% County 1.38%
June 2, 200817 yr **Cough** If you're including the far West Side make Colerain Township red as well... It's directly north of Green Township and I happen to live farther West than most true West Siders. /End Aside Selling Western Bowl would be a tragedy. Sure, Western Bowl is one of the most expensive places to bowl on the West Side, but it's an institution. I can't imagine this will sit well with the West Side if this is made well known. It seems to me as though the Hoinkes' realized that they could cash out on this property. Sad, very sad.
June 2, 200817 yr **Cough** If you're including the far West Side make Colerain Township red as well... It's directly north of Green Township and I happen to live farther West than most true West Siders. Sorry, I have many friends from Colerain who say the same thing, but personally I only included them the year they won the football state championship. :wink: Obviously their aren't any defined lines.
June 2, 200817 yr I had been wondering how the west side is doing. I think we are at a moment where retail is not as strong a sign of neighborhood strength as it has been. The key is how the neighborhoods look as you drive around them. What is the vibe these days? I'd see for myself but I'm stuck in Virginia.
June 2, 200817 yr I'm not sure what to do with Colerain Twp along with Mt. Airy and College Hill (North College Hill). They aren't east-siders, but I'm not sure they fit with the valley folks either. I guess they are part of greater Hamilton. :-o
June 2, 200817 yr ^If you just look at Glenway Ave then I say that the area around Western Hills Plaza seems to be giving the best "vibe." The area near Glenway Crossing is the exact opposite (sans the strip with Best Buy, Panera, Chipotle, etc). It almost seems as though the momentum occuring around Western Hills Plaza is occuring at the expense of Glenway Crossing (to a certain extent). The portions through the heart of Price Hill are looking terrible to be quite honest. The new CPS version of Hays is disgusting and will make that already disgusting looking area worse. At the same time Seton and Elder continue to fortify themselves from the rest of Price Hill. If you look at Glenway through Green Township it too looks pretty bad and honestly looks to be in the worst shape of its existence.
June 2, 200817 yr Sorry, I have many friends from Colerain who say the same thing, but personally I only included them the year they won the footbal state championship. :wink: Obviously their aren't any defined lines. I'm quite content with where I live. Access to two interstates and Cross County, it's rather convenient. :P Of course one of those interstates is accessed at Rybolt, and we all know how screwed up Rybolt is. ^I certainly hope something happens to Glenway Crossing. It's... depressing. I would think it'd be a prime target for redevelopment.
June 2, 200817 yr I'm worried we are going to 'lose' a number of west-side neighborhoods just as the rest of the city really gets its act together. Obviously there are limits to this as places like Westwood are gigantic, but it sounds like the 'urbanists' need to start picking the places that will serve as the core of a renaissance. There needs to be a hierarchy of places that get attention. On the east side, Hyde Park square and Mt. Adams were urban redoubts at the time of the urban crisis. Pleasant Ridge held strong and kept Kennedy Heights from tumbling off a cliff. Unfortunately, these places all have better highway access than the westside. I'd argue that the Catholic parishes should be at the forefront in some of these neighborhoods as they were the organizing institution at least through the turn of the millennium.
June 2, 200817 yr >I'd argue that the Catholic parishes should be at the forefront in some of these neighborhoods as they were the organizing institution at least through the turn of the millennium. You hit a sore spot Dave. It's endlessly frustrating to hear about west siders moving to West Chester or wherever and then bragging about how their church school is expanding while a west side or city school is facing closure. The Church does nothing about it, it's totally asleep at the wheel on this issue and doesn't seem to give a damn that the spectacular old churches are being abandoned and demo'd one-by-one. I think it was St. Boneventure in Fairmount that was demolished about two years ago but it will be St. Lawrence, etc. in the near future.
June 2, 200817 yr I agree completely. Nativity has been at the forefront in Pleasant Ridge, while the parishes in Madisonville have been key to that neighborhood as well. In contrast, the big westside parishes are standing by while they whither on the vine. We're due for a new archbishop real soon, hopefully he'll be a little more attuned to such issues. It is getting to the point where St. X will have to send their 'urban' retreat/do-gooding folks to the historic westside core that St. X drew their students from instead to OTR.
June 2, 200817 yr You know, another factor that scares me is the amount of elderly folks we have. There are certainly more dying off (god rest their souls) than younger folks moving in.
June 2, 200817 yr You know, another factor that scares me is the amount of elderly folks we have. There are certainly more dying off (god rest their souls) than younger folks moving in. This is VERY true for the Westside of Cincinnati. Especially if you look at the Price Hill neighborhoods, Cheviot, Delhi Twp, and much of Green Twp...hell even Westwood for that matter.
June 2, 200817 yr Western Bowl in developer's sights http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080602/BIZ01/306020047
June 2, 200817 yr Man, this Richard Whipple & his Knoxville company sure sees things different than Russ Hoinke. Russ, take your money and your family and get the hell out of the westside. You obviously are part of the problem and not the solution. The bowling alley is really no big loss for me. I personally haven't been in well over a decade and I live next door. I somewhat expected it! Offices, I am for, but another strip center would just be a joke!
June 2, 200817 yr I don't think any Western Hills locale is well suited for office development or greater retail and/or residential density. Essentially Western Hills is destined for stagnation given the terrible accessible for new people and/or new jobs. There is no easy way in or out of the area. Had light rail been championed over here then things would be different given that rail would be able to open up the heart of the westside to new investment/development. Until that happens the westside will continue the same course it has been on for decades now.
June 2, 200817 yr ^Some people like that there is no easy way in or out. Keeps that small town, big city living. Yes, it has kept new development down over the years and yes Light Rail would be a plus, but I will have to disagree with you on the office development issue. They can't build them fast enough on Bridgetown Rd. and they look better than anything built on Glenway in the last 30 years. I would like to see more brick and trees on Glenway similar to what is being done on B-town rd. Enough with the strip centers though!! We can afford to loose many of the strip centers on the Green Twp. end of Glenway. This is the area you eluded to as being discusting.
June 2, 200817 yr The office space along Bridgetown Rd is primarily service related office uses. These spaces need to be in that area to serve their clients and what not. There is no way that office development will occur in that area of the westside unless something is done to 1) improve accessibility and 2) improve visibility. Neither of which I see happening soon. Sure more brick/stone would be nice, but you're not going to have someone pony up big money to do a nice project in an area that is just about at its limit for customer/user base. I don't see household incomes spiking, in the area, anytime soon either. I theorize that what you see now is generally what you're going to see for some time on the westside. Westsiders seem to be content with what they have and that's fine...but you can't honestly expect an office development to come into an area with zero highway access or visibility that is not in the urban core. That's just not going to happen...the same can be said with high-end retail. It's no wonder why the developers of Legacy Place haven't yet been able to get any high-end retailer to sign on the dotted line...and that location is MUCH better than anything in the heart of Western Hills from an access standpoint.
June 2, 200817 yr ^Interesting thoughts! I will still go down saying their is a pop. of 250,000 people within a 5-6 mi radius which is a popular stat that many companies ponder. When you group that many people together in correlation to having just the Glenway, Delhi, and Harrison Ave corridors as retail. On a scale of comparing it to the northern suburbs such as Farest Park, Springdale, and Springdale Twp, -----We really don't have alot. Even though I will agree most structures are discusting and out of some BAD 60's or 70's nightmare. I know income levels may vary a bit, but their are quite a bit of higher incomes when you include Outer Green, Delhi, Miami, and Whitewater Twp's. I still believe many still commute to other locations for shopping even with gas at 4 bucks. In a way, I may be to optimistic about this but I firmly believe the current economy and markets may play an even greater role once we are 3-5 years down the road. Affordable and stable housing prices may be a big draw for people wanting to move nearer to the city and not wanting to pay East side prices. And Randy, you know the entire Westside will not ENTIRELY look like Warsaw someday. ( I am not saying you said that though.) I just mean You and I both know from growing up over here that it is like it's own little (suburban) city. It has a mix of ghettos and it has areas that you would think your on a different side of town. ( Farther out B-town rd.) I strongly think just one project done to the expectations of say a Montgomery, Hyde park, Mt. Lookout streetscape would change demand in a positive nature. People would almost start to demand it then. Randy I know you know what I mean - You talk of it all the time for DT. ( Not the walkability part of course except for Cheviot, Old Westwood, Covedale, and P-Hill.) But just putting something up that make people feel proud about. (You know, that Westside Pride they all told us existed once). We do have great parks already in place and Cheviot, Covedale, and Price Hill are already built but just need some heavy heavy attention to bring it back to life. Within the past year it seems as if the smaller districts like Westwood and Cheviot have started to open their eyes to "The Appearance" of their main street. Cheviot is finally getting their nicer (non- hanging on wires) traffic lights later this summer.( I wish they would bury the friggin lines though.) They have been placing the big potted plants and flowers now for a couple years on the main drag. And Westwood groups and organizations have said they are aggressively pursuing businesses to help bring back the Harrison Corridor near the Town Hall. This is what they NEED to be thinking about. They are finally recognizing that they have to get more people involved. I think it has worked too, because I would say most of the people I have graduated with and kept in contact with over the years have gone toward Cheviot. People really are attracted to affordale walkability. I know Glenway hasn't got a snowballs chance of ever look like Montgomery, but they could start with some nicer facades for starters. (For example: New Olive Garden and Red Lobster) I know your a big fan of chains but, this is all Glenway will ever be. I just hope any new construction uses a little more urban/suburban planning than has been applied in the past. *cough* (Harrison and Rybolt.) Anyway, sorry bout the rant, but I guess I just see it more for it's potential than it's current state. This is exactly the way I feel about OTR in some aspects..... I always pull for the underdog!!! :wink: Most of the time those neighborhoods have the most character and characters.
June 3, 200817 yr I wish great things for the Westside, because I feel it is one of Cincy's greatest assest (while also being a detriment). The Westside gives Cincy that strong family presence that makes Cincy what it is. The Westside also gives Cincy that conservative/backward stigma to outsiders. The Westside certainly needs something that is a central area that is a destination for all Westsiders. I personally thought that Glenway in between Bridgetown and Western Bowl would have been a great spot for this. The opportunity is even greater when you consider the two ends have the opportunity for redevelopment right now. In addition to that you have the old Glenway Dodge site that is available now offering a nice chunk in the middle of the subject site. With that said, I don't think there is any push for something like this from Green Twp officials...and their actions actually hurt the cause somewhat. I think the Westside will remain a strong area in the Cincy region, but it is losing importance and is stagnating big-time. I personally don't want to see this happen. Change is necessary over time, and the Westside has to realize this if they want to remain relevant in the region.
June 3, 200817 yr ^Yup! Agree. I personally thought that Glenway in between Bridgetown and Western Bowl would have been a great spot for this. The opportunity is even greater when you consider the two ends have the opportunity for redevelopment right now. In addition to that you have the old Glenway Dodge site that is available now offering a nice chunk in the middle of the subject site. Now would be the time!!
June 3, 200817 yr "I wish great things for the Westside, because I feel it is one of Cincy's greatest assest (while also being a detriment). The Westside gives Cincy that strong family presence that makes Cincy what it is. The Westside also gives Cincy that conservative/backward stigma to outsiders." I definitely agree with this statement. I must admit that I have rarely ventured to the West Side, and when I have I haven't found much of a reason to return. One thing I do like about the Westside though is that it does seem that there is that strong sense of family, attachment to the local parish, and a certain amount of permanance to the families that live there. That said, I have never really found any charm in the W.S. The neighborhoods kind of blend together for me...nothing really makes Westwood stand out from Price Hill from Green Township. On the East Side you know you're in Hyde Park when you see the square, Mt. Lookout when you hit the square, Oakley when you're going down Madison, Maderia on Miami, etc. The only real exception to that would be Mt. Washington and Anderson Twp, which have no real identity.
June 3, 200817 yr I think they botched those numbers up a little. At least the radius. edit: nevermind, I get it. I am being slow this morning. Landmark may not be spared BY JOHN ECKBERG | [email protected] http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080603/BIZ01/806030368/1076/BIZ Western Bowl, a Cincinnati bowling institution, may be demolished to make way for a proposed strip of office and retail space. A Knoxville, Tenn., real estate development company has plans to close and demolish the bowling complex for an 8-acre development in Bridgetown on Glenway Avenue by the third quarter of 2009. The project is not final, said Richard Whipple, project manager of Azur US Inc. of Knoxville, and plans could easily change.
June 3, 200817 yr The neighborhoods kind of blend together for me...nothing really makes Westwood stand out from Price Hill from Green Township. On the East Side you know you're in Hyde Park when you see the square, Mt. Lookout when you hit the square, Oakley when you're going down Madison, Maderia on Miami, etc. Exactly, the westside is severely lacking a 'sense of place.' Price Hill's has fallen to the wayside with the fall of the neighborhood, Delhi Twp/Green Twp never really had one. Cheviot is close as is Westwood...but both needs lots of attention and TLC and they could very well get to that point.
June 4, 200817 yr The neighborhoods kind of blend together for me...nothing really makes Westwood stand out from Price Hill from Green Township. On the East Side you know you're in Hyde Park when you see the square, Mt. Lookout when you hit the square, Oakley when you're going down Madison, Maderia on Miami, etc. Exactly, the westside is severely lacking a 'sense of place.' Price Hill's has fallen to the wayside with the fall of the neighborhood, Delhi Twp/Green Twp never really had one. Cheviot is close as is Westwood...but both needs lots of attention and TLC and they could very well get to that point. I disagree, although the West Side does not have any squares, there is a definate sense of place in the older burbs. Small "Downtowns" are there for Covedale, along Glenway; Price Hill along Warsaw near where it splits off from Glenway. Westwood at Harrison and Montana, And, of course "Chevois"! Westwood has a center in its old town hall. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=qhrbwg7yh1ws&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=8791559&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1 Covedale has some fine homes NW of Cleves Warsaw and Glenway, and along Covedale Ave. Homes along Glenmore, for example, rival those in Hyde Park
June 4, 200817 yr Covedale is a gorgeous area, but has no real neighborhood business district. The stuff you're talking about is the beautiful Covedale Library and Covedale Cinema/Theatre on Glenway. The neighborhood also has a nice school, but it hardly can boast an actual NBD. I mentioned Westwood and Cheviot, but Price Hill's area is a shell and is nothing to be proud of from a neighborhood sense. The westside neighborhoods certainly have the potential to be great places like the other great Cincy neighborhoods...with amazing NBD's and what not. Unfortunately I'm not sure that people on the westside have the drive to stand up and fight for their neighborhood (sans Westwood).
June 4, 200817 yr ^I was talking to some of the residents of the Covedale Garden District yesterday. Get a load of this crap. “Where do you live?” {Part 1} “I think I live in Covedale.” As I looked out my second story window I observed two city employees, in Gestapo like fashion, removing the “Covedale Garden District” banners from the street lamps on Covedale Avenue. As I helped to coordinate the “banner project” I took it personal, understanding their significance - a source of neighborhood pride. Displayed for almost three years, for many, these banners have become to Covedale what the Indian Statue is to Saylor Park. “What in the h _ _ _ are you doing?” I questioned. “We’ve got our orders” they replied. Orders? Orders from whom?” I demanded. Red faced, one of the city workers finally revealed “Alvin Chipmunk”.
June 4, 200817 yr Covedale is a gorgeous area, but has no real neighborhood business district. The stuff you're talking about is the beautiful Covedale Library and Covedale Cinema/Theatre on Glenway. The neighborhood also has a nice school, but it hardly can boast an actual NBD. But 'sense of place' means you know where you are and it has a unique feel. A NBD* is not a prerequisite, IMHO. You mention the Covedale Library and Covedale Cinema/Theatre, and I mention nice streets and housing stock. So Covedale has its sense of place *Covedale has a small NBD with Price Hill Chili as an anchor ;-)
June 4, 200817 yr ^The residential streets and housing stock is great, but these are not public areas of congregation and/or focus. They are neighborhood streets, so while they do create a sense of place in that regard they do not accomplish creating a sense of place that is something larger...typically this would emanate from a public area of some sort. Covedale just doesn't have it. If Glenway were better through that part it would be wonderful...but unfortunately you have a Burger King and a bunch of junk right next to and around the library and cinema.
June 4, 200817 yr ^There is quite a bit of street life throughout the area. I am over there almost everyday and it amazes me how many walkers w/ strollers/ dogs etc. are out. Next time your in this area, get off of Glenway via any of the side streets. You might be surprised. A NBD is only a matter of time. Neighbors in this area are pretty involved and they have been discussing this. ^^ I believe they are getting a streetscape soon too from Gurley to Crookshank.(TIF money used, but read it last year, I think.) Not sure about that though, It had Cranley written all over it!!!!!!!! He promises alot to westsiders in election years. None that I can think of, actually coming to fruition. He is all talk!!!!!!
June 4, 200817 yr Covedale is a gorgeous area, but has no real neighborhood business district. The stuff you're talking about is the beautiful Covedale Library and Covedale Cinema/Theatre on Glenway. The neighborhood also has a nice school, but it hardly can boast an actual NBD. But 'sense of place' means you know where you are and it has a unique feel. A NBD* is not a prerequisite, IMHO. You mention the Covedale Library and Covedale Cinema/Theatre, and I mention nice streets and housing stock. So Covedale has its sense of place *Covedale has a small NBD with Price Hill Chili as an anchor ;-) The point I was trying to make about the Westside lacking a sense of place does not directly correlate with NBD's, as sense of place can be determined from other things. The East side is much more fragmented because the neighborhoods have strong identities. When people think of the Eastside, they think of individual neighborhoods (most of which have substantial NBD's), with very differing personalities. Hyde Park immediately draws up images of the Square and large mansions. Mt. Lookout makes people think of their square and the bars and resturants along Delta and Linwood. Mariemont conjurs images of tutor buildings, and the art theatre. Oakley makes people think of the Madison corridor and the 20th century theatre as well as the many restaurants. Indian Hill and Mt. Adams also have images attached to them. What does the Westside make people think of? I think of more general images like...corn hole, bowling, Catholic churches/schools, stripmalls, etc. The only neighborhood I have an image of on the Westside is Price Hill, and it's not a good image. Unless of course Northside is counted as the Westside, in which case it is an anomoly.
June 5, 200817 yr This is a subject near and dear, I grew up in Price Hill & Delhi but have lived nearly everywhere else in the city. The westside is essentially an amalgamation of suburbs. A handful of first generation 'burbs - Price Hill, Cheviot, Westwood and a lot of post-war suburban housing - Delhi, Green Township etc... You'll be looking all day if you go there trying to find a 'sense of place.' I used to think Delhi Pike had everything I ever needed.....I was very naive. As somebody mentioned earlier, the beginnings of glenway (price hill chili area) are as close as you'll get to an urban feel. Parts of Westwood & Cheviot as well. Price Hill has a lot of gorgeous old housing but unfortunately that gasbag Witte is right - it has more than its fair share of CMHA housing. That can be said of a lot of westside first generation suburbs as well.
June 5, 200817 yr I think that the development of Glenway Crossing and Western Hills Plaza (not to mention that crappy Wal-Mart strip) killed the potential for NBDs on the westside. Those retail strips/plazas have sucked the life out of the once vibrant Price Hill, Cheviot, and Westwood NBDs. Delhi Twp has no chance (demographics aren't that good, and accessibility is terrible) at reviving Delhi Pike in my opinion, and Green Twp has a great opportunity along Glenway but I doubt they'll do anything with that opportunity (other than a crappy Olive Garden...maybe).
June 5, 200817 yr ^^^^^ Delhi has great proximity to downtown for commuters...if the market keeps going the way it is --- expect more folks to move into Delhi, IMHO (Now, if they ever built that bridge over the River to the Airport)
June 5, 200817 yr ^I think that ideology has a VERY good chance of becoming reality. Redevelopment will occur, but not all at once. It will happen over time though!! Who's to say streetcars/Lt rail won't make a comeback within the next 15-20 years? (to the Ham. Cty burbs) It's an entirely new ballgame then!!!
June 5, 200817 yr The challenge for the Westside it would seem is that it either needs better access to NKY and the jobs there or to northern Hamilton Cty and the jobs there. It has decent access to downtown (obviously a built out streetcar system would only increase demand for space downtown - that's why downtowns exist), but those other two markets aren't going away and they tend to have more of the middle to down market jobs than those available downtown.
June 9, 200817 yr My room mate said that a shopping center is replacing western bowl. Is there anything on this site about that? I thought they got good business and I kinda like the mexican place attached to it.
June 9, 200817 yr My room mate said that a shopping center is replacing western bowl. Is there anything on this site about that? I thought they got good business and I kinda like the mexican place attached to it. To be continued, not a done deal yet, but we bagan discussion at the top of this page.
June 9, 200817 yr My room mate said that a shopping center is replacing western bowl. Is there anything on this site about that? I thought they got good business and I kinda like the mexican place attached to it. To be continued, not a done deal yet, but we bagan discussion at the top of this page. There's a facebook group of like 2k people trying to prevent it from happening. It's an important landmark if you ask me. Rando- Considering how many vacant stripmalls there are along that corridor, why would Western Bowls location be much different?
June 9, 200817 yr My room mate said that a shopping center is replacing western bowl. Is there anything on this site about that? I thought they got good business and I kinda like the mexican place attached to it. To be continued, not a done deal yet, but we bagan discussion at the top of this page. There's a facebook group of like 2k people trying to prevent it from happening. It's an important landmark if you ask me. Rando- Considering how many vacant stripmalls there are along that corridor, why would Western Bowls location be much different? I think this would fill up for the simple fact that it will offer new space. The thing is, is that the price per sf will be low enough to allow existing businesses in the area to just move around into new space. Thus pouring new square-footage without any new surge of retail. In a nutshell...I think a strip center here would fill up at the expense of other already borderline strip centers.
June 9, 200817 yr ^Side note regarding retail rent in the area. Prior to the renovations going on at Western Hills Plaza, the old Staples rent was the lowest rent in the company. 1500+ stores, company wide. In that same sentence, the Marathon closed down because they were raising rent, so take that for what it's worth. Obviously rents are going to go up with the 15 million Centro is sticking into it. The retail in the area NEEDS to be updated.
June 14, 200817 yr The bowling pins are still being set BY KURT BACKSCHEIDER | [email protected] http://news.communitypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080612/NEWS/806120430/1067/RSS1103 GREEN TWP. - Western Bowl owner Erv Hoinke Jr. said a development group has expressed interest in buying his family business, but nothing is definite about the future of the west-side landmark. "Nothing is carved in stone," he said. "We're still operating as a bowling center and will continue to do so. Our summer and winter leagues are still on."
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