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ah well -- im just looking to make lemonade out of lebrons lemon!

 

That sounds dirty.

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dont downplay that factor either.

 

So we "rebuild downtown" so people like Lebron want to play here?  No thanks.

 

well more like im hoping the anger can lead to a little civic introspection and that the energy can be turned toward something more positive that everyone can benefit from.

 

its sorta happened before, we got cbs out of the browns leaving.

 

ah well -- im just looking to make lemonade out of lebrons lemon!

 

that was  team leaving not a player.  But I do understand where you're coming from.

Someone with more basketball knowledge please help me: how do the post Lebron Cavs stack up against the Knicks in terms of 3-year outlook? Or do we have to wait until after the free agents finish shaking out. The Knicks have struck me as the most inept sports franchise in the country over the past several years despite every natural advantage- it would be sad to see the Cavs slip below.

 

We are in better shape than the Knicks.  We still have a team sans Lebron and a pretty decent one at that.  We are missing the centerpiece though and who knows when we get another one.  NYK on the other hand are a mess.  They went all in on the Lebron sweepstakes and ended up with a player (Stoudemire) that no one else would commit significant money to because insurance will not cover the next injury to his eye or knee (either of which could end his playing career).  I have to think that Stoudemire was option 4 or 5 for them at best.  NYK also traded away several future draft picks in moves to clear more cap space so they could sign two big name free agents, which did not happen.  We'll see, but moving forward I would take the Cavs' current roster over the Knicks',

oh sure, the city, the ownership and who wants to play there are totally unrelated.

 

Not completely, but you can't say those three ended up in Miami because Cleveland sucks any more than you can say they went to Miami because Chicago sucks or New York sucks.  They ended up in Miami because D-Wade was staying put, all three of them wanted to play together, and Miami was the only place that could happen.  I guarantee you that if the Grizzlies were the only team where all three had the option of teaming up Lebron would have been announcing his departure for Memphis last night.

 

By the way, Shaq wanted to play here, so it's not like nobody would come here.

 

well i appreciate the boosterism lets be real, no those three would not play for memphis. and please shaq is not 'that' shaq anymore.

 

sure it comes down to a combination of ownership, the team and the city itself. the team was the best of the three and that was not enough to land the top tier players. obiviously the comical new money ownership has shown its true self as embarassing and off-putting, so that leaves the attractiveness of playing in cle, where while its fine for families we all know it could be better for vibrancy and attracting young people -- such as pro athletes. dont downplay that factor either.

 

 

I must agree with that. 

 

However, that isn't soley the fault of the Team/City/County/Region but that people responsible for marketing and promoting our City/County/Region and the LOCAL self loathing we're the "mistake on the lake" media!

 

You all know who I'm speaking of!

 

what rebuild downtown kind of like this?

 

Sorry we're already doing that.  Have been for some time.  Started before LeBron was born, and it's been picking up the pace on a continuing basis.  Please don't insult the people who work very hard on this stuff and pretend that it is not happening.  We've practically reinvented our entire downtown in the last 20 years.  Too bad some people keep deciding not to notice.

 

 

^ yeah i know and who said its not happening, but im not a 20yr old pro athlete either.

 

Offering nothing but booze and sports won't cut it.

 

I forget how often folks visit Playhouse Square to watch sports, or University Circle to get falling down drunk, or the Towpath Trail and Wendy Park to hit on wasted chicks. Good thing all of the folks who work as planners and community developers are just sitting on their thumbs or bending over backwards to turn Cleveland into one big gin joint, offering nothing but booze and sports.  Nothing personal.

there's wasted chicks on the Towpath Trail? Someone tell C-Dawg!

there's wasted chicks on the Towpath Trail? Someone tell C-Dawg!

 

barfjpg.jpg

 

Phoot changed to protect the innocent.  I think!  :|

That pic has a filename of MayorMcCleveland.jpg? :)

That pic has a filename of MayorMcCleveland.jpg? :)

 

I dont know where I got that!  I dont think thats the Mayor. 

That pic has a filename of MayorMcCleveland.jpg? :)

 

I dont know where I got that!

 

Where do you get any of your pictures is the real question.

 

I'm guessing you gave it that name because the first time you found the pic you were using it to poke fun at McCleveland.

Wow, I guess it's no surprise, but I hadn't thought the interview was quite this contrived:

 

LeBron James and his team paid Jim Gray

 

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2010/07/lebron_james_and_his_team_paid.html

Thats not even half.  I know the amount of endorsement money is not what I was told and NIKE is going to match that total.

 

Since I know the person who coordinated this, nothing is to be unexpected.  TRUST!

So does that mean when people get older and wiser (like Shaq) they are willing to come to Cleveland?

 

If so, when will you get older and wiser mrnyc? ;)

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Wow, I guess it's no surprise, but I hadn't thought the interview was quite this contrived:

 

LeBron James and his team paid Jim Gray

 

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2010/07/lebron_james_and_his_team_paid.html

 

As a recovering journalist, this bothers me a great deal. Damn right it's contrived. In an interview after "The Decision" Gray said he asked Lebron "journalistic" questions. They may have been journalistic, but it sure as hell wasn't journalism.

 

Pinocchio-Marionette-Puppet_30F501B2.jpg

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Wow, I guess it's no surprise, but I hadn't thought the interview was quite this contrived:

 

LeBron James and his team paid Jim Gray

 

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2010/07/lebron_james_and_his_team_paid.html

 

As a recovering journalist, this bothers me a great deal. Damn right it's contrived. In an interview after "The Decision" Gray said he asked Lebron "journalistic" questions. They may have been journalistic, but it sure as hell wasn't journalism.

 

Pinocchio-Marionette-Puppet_30F501B2.jpg

1000% agree!

Maybe a lot of money wasted...

 

July 9, 2010, 1:11 pm

James’s Sponsors (and ESPN) Seem Short of Heat, Buzz-Wise

By STUART ELLIOTT

 

The company, Zeta Interactive, reported on Friday that most of the sponsors experienced little or no buzz impact. Two, however, suffered declines in the tone of the conversations about them, Zeta said, as did ESPN itself.

 

Nike, which had no visible presence during “The Decision,” lost 4 percentage points in its positive buzz, Zeta reported, which fell to 82 percent from 86 percent on Wednesday. (That still far outweighs its negative buzz, at 14 percent.)

 

Vitaminwater, which had a much more prominent role during the show, suffered a larger decline in its positive buzz, according to Zeta, which fell to 76 percent from its recent 60-day average of 91 percent.

 

Before the special, three of the most popular words and terms used online in connection with ESPN, owned by the Walt Disney Company, were neutral terms like “sports,” “network” and “show” or “shows,” Zeta reported.

 

After the show, however, Zeta said, the most popular words and terms used online to describe ESPN were “pathetic” and “dirty,” along with “LeBron.”

 

Gilbert needs to stop.  Now he is going on the record basically saying that LeBron has been covered up for too long, and now his true colors are shining through.  He is really starting to sound childish.  Instead of complaing so much, lets here a plan for crying out loud.  LeBron is gone....that sucks to write, but he is. 

and we are all "witnesses".

A very interesting perspctive...and this doesn't include the $70+ million the Chinese investors would have put into the Cavs had he resigned, which would have ment "free" advertising in China.

 

Did LeBron James Just Cost Himself $150 Million?

by Nate Silver @ 1:39 AM

 

 

In the meantime, there are signs that public opinion on James has soured significantly. In an unscientific poll conducted by SI.com, 81 percent of respondents now claim to have a negative opinion of James, whereas 78 percent had a positive opinion prior to free agency.

 

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/07/did-lebron-james-just-cost-himself-150.html

 

Will Lebron be taking his Crab Dribble to South Beach?

Word from my source is that every Cavs vs Heat game will be free battery night...<rimshot>....sorry, I'm going home.

A very interesting perspctive...and this doesn't include the $70+ million the Chinese investors would have put into the Cavs had he resigned, which would have ment "free" advertising in China.

 

Did LeBron James Just Cost Himself $150 Million?

by Nate Silver @ 1:39 AM

 

 

In the meantime, there are signs that public opinion on James has soured significantly. In an unscientific poll conducted by SI.com, 81 percent of respondents now claim to have a negative opinion of James, whereas 78 percent had a positive opinion prior to free agency.

 

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/07/did-lebron-james-just-cost-himself-150.html

 

 

In a few weeks this will all blow over.  Especially if MIA has a blockbuster season. 

So does that mean when people get older and wiser (like Shaq) they are willing to come to Cleveland?

 

If so, when will you get older and wiser mrnyc? ;)

 

sure, in time you can bet that lebron will have a retirement home in ne ohio.

 

of course he'll have to buy a new one because his current one will likely be, umm, deconstructed  -- well ok if not that drastic at best i expect photos of it to look like that mike tyson ohio home in a few years!!!

 

^ in case people dont remember that:

 

http://illicitohio.illicitohio.com/tyson.htm

I don't see how much you can really have loved the guy if he makes a bad decision and now is the Devil. Did you only love him because he was here? Was he only deserving of a ring or a successful career because he was in Cleveland?  I agree that his methods were horrible and extremely insulting, but I don't see why the decision to play somewhere else makes him a "traitor" and the devil.  Nobody goes into professional sports for a career and signs a contract in their blood that they will never, ever leave their first professional team.

 

I agree this could have some impact around playoff time. I would love if Gilbert was able to get us to the playoffs next year without lebron, even if we don't win.  I expect cavs fans to turn out with even more rabid support for their team than ever before.

 

 

^ yep - case in point wade doesnt play for chicago either and he is from there. he wouldnt bite chicagos pitch.

 

That's a bad analogy.  Cleveland is struggling economically and on the athletic field right now, and although the Prince is an insulated fool, he has to realize at least that.  And he was drafted by the Cavaliers and was the hometown hero who on dozens of occasions professed his loyalty for the area and said he intended to win in a Cavaliers uniform, but then turned his back and said that they couldn't even pay him $30 million extra to stay here.  All of that aside, he used Cleveland and the Cavaliers throughout this process and embarrassed us on national television.  If you can't understand why this situation is very unique, and why there is a lot of hatred amongst most Cleveland/Northeast Ohio sports fans, then there's no explaining it to you.

MH, good find on the Nate Silver article.  The same guy who NAILED every state in the 2008 election I might add.  The article just emphasizes what I have been saying about the "market size" for these two teams.  I didn't realize that Miami actually is a downgrade in that regard by more than 3 million.

I don't see how much you can really have loved the guy if he makes a bad decision and now is the Devil. Did you only love him because he was here? Was he only deserving of a ring or a successful career because he was in Cleveland?  I agree that his methods were horrible and extremely insulting, but I don't see why the decision to play somewhere else makes him a "traitor" and the devil.  Nobody goes into professional sports for a career and signs a contract in their blood that they will never, ever leave their first professional team.

 

My anger today is all about the way he did it.  I have a hard time believing, at this point, that this was not always the plan.  One of his new teammates, Chris Bosh, made clear that he was going to leave the Raptors before free agency even started.  It allowed Toronto to weigh it's options accordingly.  You have to understand how the salary cap works and that would take an essay to explain, but going about it the way he did took away options we might have elected to exercise.

 

Personally, I believe he should have divorced himself from our franchise first.  He should have done it the second he made up his mind.  If that was yesterday morning (I doubt it) as he claims, then he should not have put us through that spectacle last night.

 

Players leave their team because the team sucks, or the team won't pay as much as their suitors, or they want to be close to family.  Nobody has ever left a franchise as highly successful as the Cavs have been over the past several years, which was willing to pay the most money, and also was the players' home team.  Unprecedented.

 

People's opinions are going to vary.  If you are a casual sports fan, it really is no big deal.  However, if you are invested, emotionally, financially, whatever, in Cleveland sports, then it is a much bigger deal to you.  I'm still pissed today because I fall into the latter.  I'll get over it, but I have every right to be pissed at the situation and at him.  This team was built around him to win (and it did win A LOT) and, now, our options are very limited no that he removed the keystone to the entire foundation.

 

He said several years back that he was not going to "ring-chase", that he was going to build a dynasty here in Cleveland, that loyalty was most important to him.  Maybe he was being genuine, but I find that unlikely putting all the clues together. 

 

Whatever Lebron turns out to be (multiple championships, whatever), he will never be what many of us hoped he was (even if that hope was the result of turning a blind eye to his true character).

 

Great piece by Wojornowksi BTW (bashing both LBJ and Gilbert) - http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgiDRsCdAFLaMW4O67sXauA5nYcB?slug=aw-lebrondecision070910

 

Nailed it.

A very interesting perspctive...and this doesn't include the $70+ million the Chinese investors would have put into the Cavs had he resigned, which would have ment "free" advertising in China.

 

Did LeBron James Just Cost Himself $150 Million?

by Nate Silver @ 1:39 AM

 

 

In the meantime, there are signs that public opinion on James has soured significantly. In an unscientific poll conducted by SI.com, 81 percent of respondents now claim to have a negative opinion of James, whereas 78 percent had a positive opinion prior to free agency.

 

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/07/did-lebron-james-just-cost-himself-150.html

 

 

In a few weeks this will all blow over. Especially if MIA has a blockbuster season.

 

I doubt it.  He spurned three of the biggest markets and his home state.  People are not likely to forget his actions.

Critics Grow as James Arrives in Miami

By JONATHAN ABRAMS and CATHARINE SKIPP

Published: July 9, 2010

 

As the fans and players of the 29 other N.B.A. franchises cringed at the union of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, South Beach did what it does best — partied.

 

“He is the best player in the league; can we put him now in the same category of Michael Jordan, who never left Chicago, Larry Bird, who never left Boston or Magic Johnson, who has four or five rings, in the same breath? No,” said the TNT analyst Reggie Miller. “If he would have stayed in Cleveland and won one championship built around him, we would have put him on Mount Rushmore.”

 

The N.B.A. TV analyst Chris Webber said, “I’m never mentioning him and Jordan in the same sentence ever again.”

 

“As great an athlete as he is, I think he brought himself back to the pack in the eyes of many consumers,” said David M. Carter, the director of the Sports Business Institute at the University of Southern California.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/sports/basketball/10heat.html

 

I don't see how much you can really have loved the guy if he makes a bad decision and now is the Devil. Did you only love him because he was here? Was he only deserving of a ring or a successful career because he was in Cleveland?  I agree that his methods were horrible and extremely insulting, but I don't see why the decision to play somewhere else makes him a "traitor" and the devil.  Nobody goes into professional sports for a career and signs a contract in their blood that they will never, ever leave their first professional team.

 

I agree this could have some impact around playoff time. I would love if Gilbert was able to get us to the playoffs next year without lebron, even if we don't win.  I expect cavs fans to turn out with even more rabid support for their team than ever before.

 

 

^ yep - case in point wade doesnt play for chicago either and he is from there. he wouldnt bite chicagos pitch.

 

That's a bad analogy.  Cleveland is struggling economically and on the athletic field right now, and although the Prince is an insulated fool, he has to realize at least that.  And he was drafted by the Cavaliers and was the hometown hero who on dozens of occasions professed his loyalty for the area and said he intended to win in a Cavaliers uniform, but then turned his back and said that they couldn't even pay him $30 million extra to stay here.  All of that aside, he used Cleveland and the Cavaliers throughout this process and embarrassed us on national television.  If you can't understand why this situation is very unique, and why there is a lot of hatred amongst most Cleveland/Northeast Ohio sports fans, then there's no explaining it to you.

 

who are you "explaining it" to? if there is one thing i do understand its cle anger and disappointment over sports - lol!

 

lets try to look on the bright side, the cavs 'iverson 76ers era' is over. in time the team will move on and so will we. i dk about you but im even willing to give that clownish carpetbagger of an owner gilbert, who embarrassed cle as much as lebron did if not more, a chance to put his money where his big mouth is right now via free agency and trades. no time like the present right?  :wink:

 

 

 

Critics Grow as James Arrives in Miami

By JONATHAN ABRAMS and CATHARINE SKIPP

Published: July 9, 2010

 

As the fans and players of the 29 other N.B.A. franchises cringed at the union of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, South Beach did what it does best — partied.

 

“He is the best player in the league; can we put him now in the same category of Michael Jordan, who never left Chicago, Larry Bird, who never left Boston or Magic Johnson, who has four or five rings, in the same breath? No,” said the TNT analyst Reggie Miller. “If he would have stayed in Cleveland and won one championship built around him, we would have put him on Mount Rushmore.”

 

The N.B.A. TV analyst Chris Webber said, “I’m never mentioning him and Jordan in the same sentence ever again.”

 

“As great an athlete as he is, I think he brought himself back to the pack in the eyes of many consumers,” said David M. Carter, the director of the Sports Business Institute at the University of Southern California.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/sports/basketball/10heat.html

 

Oh man LeBron looks so cool in that Miami jersey.  He's so lame.  Weak.

I don't see how much you can really have loved the guy if he makes a bad decision and now is the Devil. Did you only love him because he was here? Was he only deserving of a ring or a successful career because he was in Cleveland? I agree that his methods were horrible and extremely insulting, but I don't see why the decision to play somewhere else makes him a "traitor" and the devil. Nobody goes into professional sports for a career and signs a contract in their blood that they will never, ever leave their first professional team.

 

I agree this could have some impact around playoff time. I would love if Gilbert was able to get us to the playoffs next year without lebron, even if we don't win. I expect cavs fans to turn out with even more rabid support for their team than ever before.

 

 

^ yep - case in point wade doesnt play for chicago either and he is from there. he wouldnt bite chicagos pitch.

 

That's a bad analogy. Cleveland is struggling economically and on the athletic field right now, and although the Prince is an insulated fool, he has to realize at least that. And he was drafted by the Cavaliers and was the hometown hero who on dozens of occasions professed his loyalty for the area and said he intended to win in a Cavaliers uniform, but then turned his back and said that they couldn't even pay him $30 million extra to stay here. All of that aside, he used Cleveland and the Cavaliers throughout this process and embarrassed us on national television. If you can't understand why this situation is very unique, and why there is a lot of hatred amongst most Cleveland/Northeast Ohio sports fans, then there's no explaining it to you.

 

who are you "explaining it" to? if there is one thing i do understand its cle anger and disappointment over sports - lol!

 

lets try to look on the bright side, the cavs 'iverson 76ers era' is over. in time the team will move on and so will we. i dk about you but im even willing to give that clownish carpetbagger of an owner gilbert, who embarrassed cle as much as lebron did if not more, a chance to put his money where his big mouth is right now via free agency and trades. no time like the present right? :wink:

 

 

 

 

I agree with you about picking up the pieces and moving on, though there will be no forgetting.

Check this out about Florida's advantage over New York, Illinois, ... oh, and Ohio: http://biggovernment.com/author/dmitchell/

 

I wish people would stop going on about the income tax and instead take a larger view of the picture.  I'd love to see an accurate depiction of how each city would have stacked up financially that included ALL taxes (not just income, because Florida makes up for it in other ways) and the COST OF LIVING.  One thing I know for certain, James will be paying probably at least twice as much for housing in South Florida, and it would have been just as bad in Chicago, Los Angeles, or New York.  If he wanted to build a 35,000 square foot palace in any of those places, it would cost him almost a year's salary.  So then this is where people who are trumpeting the income tax in defense of James' decision go back to "well, he's a multi-millionaire, so it doesn't really matter to him."  It may not matter to him, but it probably would/will affect his greedy posse of hangers-on that do nothing but give him bad advice.

I wonder what will happen to his 35,000 sq ft home here in Cleveland.  I doubt that there is a market for it.

This is completely off base per the conversation but I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed how old Lebron looks for his age. I mean to me he has really aged and does not look like a fresh 25 year old. Honestly Kobe looks younger. I'm not trying to be mean or look for things to make him look bad but I think he's going to reach his peak way before any of his peers. Anyway just a thought, plus I think he's a total D$Ck for how he handled things and I'm glad he's gone. He's one empty soul and hope he never wears a ring, anywhere.

Detroit reacts -

 

www.freep.com/article/20100711/COL01/7110450/1005/NEWS03/After-LeBron-Clevelands-now-our-kind-of-town

 

My favorite part -

 

Let LeBron have Miami, Cleveland. Let him run with Dwyane Wade. Wade married his high school sweetheart, went to Miami, filed for divorce. Shaquille O'Neal had a wife, went to Miami, filed for divorce.

 

See what Miami does to people? Too many starlets. Too many clubs. Too much disco music.

 

Keep your dignity, Cleveland. Keep your ruddy looks. You're a lake and Miami is an ocean? Big deal. Oceans have sharks.

 

Who can relate to Miami? The people in Miami can't relate to Miami. It's a place of charlatans, wannabes and men with too many buttons open. Cleveland is real. Cleveland is face-value. What you see is what you get.

I wonder what will happen to his 35,000 sq ft home here in Cleveland. I doubt that there is a market for it.

 

He said on "The Decision" that he wants to keep living here.  Rich Paul, one of the 4 horsemen - LRMR - already said that he (Rich) is not moving.  I also have not seen any indication that Savannah and the two kids are moving with him.... although I don't think they lived at the complex anyways.  I heard the boys are signed up for the Hudson school district.  The article I posted above makes a good point of how neither Wade's nor Shaq's marriage lasted through their stints in Miami.

 

You have to understand that there were a lot of people very close to LeBron who were against this move.  Rich certainly was (not sure about Randy or Maverick), so were several of LeBron's high school teammates (the "More than a Game" guys).  Rich said he cried and pleaded for Lebron to stay.  DJ Steph Floss felt the same way.  Brandom Weems too. 

This is completely off base per the conversation but I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed how old Lebron looks for his age. I mean to me he has really aged and does not look like a fresh 25 year old. Honestly Kobe looks younger. I'm not trying to be mean or look for things to make him look bad but I think he's going to reach his peak way before any of his peers. Anyway just a thought, plus I think he's a total D$Ck for how he handled things and I'm glad he's gone. He's one empty soul and hope he never wears a ring, anywhere.

 

He's a lost soul. He is so far behind he thinks he's first. Soooo much growing up to do on many levels.

The Prince's game is unlike any superstar in the NBA.  With just how physical he plays, his body will be breaking down faster than any of his peers/predecessors.  When Kobe "lost a step," he learned how to dominate from the perimeter.  I don't see the same happening for the Prince, especially now that he'll be in Miami where it seems he feels like he can relax and abdicate responsibility.  Why would he work on his outside shot when he knows that someone else can play that aspect of the game for him?  Why would he expand his game when he seems to believe that he doesn't have to be the man anymore?

In regards to the Cavaliers, I'm very hopeful about the future.  Dan Gilbert remains committed to winning, and it seems like there are a few moves that can be made to help them in the offseason.  I'd love to see them trade for Al Jefferson and then perhaps tender an offer to Josh Childress.  Adding those two guys, and maybe a young point, and I feel like this will be a very solid team next year (though not a championship contender, but that's okay).

The "how can you leave me, after all I've done for you" retort from the Cavalier's owner came across to me as so much self pitying, impotent rage.  He'd gone over the edge for Lebron and Lebron had left, with middle finger extended.  For all he thought he had done, covering for Lebron and spending millions to improve the team, here he was with a franchise reduced in value, and facing the inherent difficulties in trying to maintain the team's talent level.  He was screwed, and for an executive used to being in charge, this must have been for at least a short time, an almost intolerable situation.  Whether the outburst was a an opening into the man's raw emotions or a calculated ploy to cozy to Cavalier's fans and keep their buy-in, it felt ineffectual, especially the insults directed at Lebron, the "guarantee" to win a championship first, the "announcements coming in the next days and weeks", and the comments about our "departing" prodigious and indefagitable sports curse.  More wishful thinking than reality!

 

I remember reading somewhere that it had been a dream of Lebron's to be playing on a team with multiple superstars, so this can't be that much of a shock.  The Miami management arranged it.  The Cavaliers did not.  The Cavalier's management has its work cut out.  They could be looking at a sub .500 season.  It is time to focus forwards!

Yes, but this has many other implications and connections that are non-basketball related that somehow , someway, a message needs to be sent..and example made of this guy to show that you just don't do it like this and walk away clean. I will never coddle or apologize for this classless coward.

Z might go to the heat now

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