Due to last night's victory, the Heat won't make it to 60 wins..... something the 'talentless' Cavs were easily able to do the past two years.

 

Now that's a tidbit you'll never heard on ESPN!

 

Tonight's game pissed me off and reminded me why I walked away from this team early in the season.

What did espn have to say about the victory anyways?

i watched the whole thing last night and that game gave me the agita -- one exciting quarter out of bd and umm, thats about it from the cavs side highlights. well, i guess another thing was that again i was fairly impressed with the overall effort, they are game and were trying. i dk what byron scott is putting in their head's, but given the obvious talent vacuum that's a good coach.

Things are starting to look down for the draft.  Sully says he is staying (not that I wanted him, but he would have given depth to the top end) and now it appears Barnes is going back to UNC.  Keep your fingers crossed that both Irving and Williams declare.  I have to think that Irving will as it would be a risk going back to Duke IMO.  If he suffers another season ending injury next year, he would surely not go #1.... like wil probably will this year.  Also, Duke has Austin Rivers (Doc's son and hands down best player in HS) coming in next year.  He is a PG and it would be a battle between him and Kyrie to see who deserves the ball more

I was thrilled when Sullinger said he was going back to Ohio State.  Not because I like Ohio State but because I was afraid the Cavs would draft him.  I hadn't considered the fact that maybe somebody else before or in between the Cavs' picks might take a shot at him, improving the Cavs' options.  It seems like an odd choice for these kids to go back to school.  I can't imagine them improving their draft stock, since Sullinger and Barnes seemed like sure-fire top-ten (top five?) picks.  On that note, a fat kid who can't run or jump, plays the four, and is only 6'9" was considered a top-three pick?  Ugh.

Cavs show some spunk and grind out a win against the Pistons at the Palace last night. Hollins and Villanueva get ejected in the 4th. Villanueva charges the Cavs bench and then goes searching for Hollins in the locker room. I wonder what he said? Hollins is really getting under players skin these days. Imagine how flustered teams could be with Hollins and Andy playing at the same time.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/04/11/cavs.pistons.ejections.ap/index.html

I was thrilled when Sullinger said he was going back to Ohio State.  Not because I like Ohio State but because I was afraid the Cavs would draft him.  I hadn't considered the fact that maybe somebody else before or in between the Cavs' picks might take a shot at him, improving the Cavs' options.  It seems like an odd choice for these kids to go back to school.  I can't imagine them improving their draft stock, since Sullinger and Barnes seemed like sure-fire top-ten (top five?) picks.  On that note, a fat kid who can't run or jump, plays the four, and is only 6'9" was considered a top-three pick?  Ugh.

 

I'm not saying the cavs would've or should've drafted sullinger had he elected to leave early, but your basketball IQ is less than average.  JJ Hickson is a decent 4 man and he's 6'8" on his best day. 

I was thrilled when Sullinger said he was going back to Ohio State.  Not because I like Ohio State but because I was afraid the Cavs would draft him.  I hadn't considered the fact that maybe somebody else before or in between the Cavs' picks might take a shot at him, improving the Cavs' options.  It seems like an odd choice for these kids to go back to school.  I can't imagine them improving their draft stock, since Sullinger and Barnes seemed like sure-fire top-ten (top five?) picks.  On that note, a fat kid who can't run or jump, plays the four, and is only 6'9" was considered a top-three pick?  Ugh.

 

I'm not saying the cavs would've or should've drafted sullinger had he elected to leave early, but your basketball IQ is less than average.  JJ Hickson is a decent 4 man and he's 6'8" on his best day. 

Please forgive me for my mental handicap!  I will be more careful in the future when pointing out that Sullinger is fat and can't jump and will have all of his shots blocked and that being a successful big in college is about as important to pro success as your college grade point average.  Raspberry!

Hickson is a legit 6"8....... 6"9 with shoes on.  His massive wingspan adds a couple inches, too.  If I was an NBA scout, I would definitely look at standing reach over the more traditional measurement of height.

 

And Hickson and Sullinger should never be compared.  They are completely different players.  Ironically, both have exactly what the other needs more of.

^I'll agree with that.  But I can think of 10 other players in this draft that I would take before Sullinger.

Oh.... I am on record as Sully not being the right fit for the Cavs, even if he were coming out.  Regardless of his differences with Hickson, they are both 4's for sure.

Pretty cool that FSN is plugged into Joe Tait for the 2nd half of this game.

Went to the game last night, good times.  I'm really going to miss Joe Tait.

I sat about 8 rows up from Tait last night.  Felt good to be there for his last game.

Cav's get the #1 pick in the draft and the Baron Davis deal actually got them the #4 overall pick as well. :clap:

Cav's get the #1 pick in the draft and the Baron Davis deal actually got them the #4 overall pick as well. :clap:

 

Technically, I think the Baron Davis got them the #1 pick.  That was the clippers pick.

Cav's get the #1 pick in the draft and the Baron Davis deal actually got them the #4 overall pick as well. :clap:

 

Actually, I think the Clippers trade was the pick that got us the number one pick. When we leap frogged from number 8 we were guaranteed a top 3 pick, so our pick got us the 4th pick and Mo Williams and Moon were traded for Kyrie Irving.

 

Either way, we can grab Irving and Kanter and lock down our 1 and 5 spot for years to come.

Yes.  It was the Clippers pick, with a 2.8% chance, that got us the #1.  Welcome to Cleveland, Kyrie!

Yes.  It was the Clippers pick, with a 2.8% chance, that got us the #1.  Welcome to Cleveland, Kyrie!

 

Yes I stand corrected.

To think that the Cavs have a chance at drafting me now.  :clap:

So what kind of text did Baron Davis send Donald Sterling after he found out? "Thanks for hating me that much...Too bad Griffin and Irving would have been monsters together!"

Either way, we can grab Irving and Kanter and lock down our 1 and 5 spot for years to come.

 

This would probably make Varejao expendable unfortunately.  Pick up another first rounder in 2012?  PG Irving PF Hickson C Kanter sounds like some great pieces.

Either way, we can grab Irving and Kanter and lock down our 1 and 5 spot for years to come.

 

This would probably make Varejao expendable unfortunately.  Pick up another first rounder in 2012?  PG Irving PF Hickson C Kanter sounds like some great pieces.

 

I disagree, Andy is at his best when coming off the bench filling in at the 4 or 5 spot. Kyrie at the 1, Eyenga (raw yes, needs work yes, but he's going to be GOOD) at the 2 spot, 3 spot is open for a free agent or trade, JJ Hickson at the 4 and Kanter at the center.

 

This gives us Andy and Sessions off the bench, throw in a couple more pieces and we're a contender in a few years.

Not a Kanter fan from the limited film I have seen.  The only big man I like in this draft is the kid from Brazil (Lucas Nogiera?), but #4 is probably too high for him and he is still a year or two away most likely.

 

Irving without a doubt at #1.  Duke returned the core of it championship team and Coach K still changed the offense to fit Irving's talents.  That speaks volumes.

 

I would be interested to see what Minny wants for us to move up to #2.  Irving and Williams could be great together. 

 

If we can't get Williams, I think we have to take a good long hard look at Alec Burks.  Or maybe we package that pick with part of our trade exception for a proven veteran like Andre Igoudala or Rudy Gay, both rumored to maybe be available at the right price. 

Not a Kanter fan from the limited film I have seen.  The only big man I like in this draft is the kid from Brazil (Lucas Nogiera?), but #4 is probably too high for him and he is still a year or two away most likely.

 

Irving without a doubt at #1.  Duke returned the core of it championship team and Coach K still changed the offense to fit Irving's talents.  That speaks volumes.

 

I would be interested to see what Minny wants for us to move up to #2.  Irving and Williams could be great together. 

 

If we can't get Williams, I think we have to take a good long hard look at Alec Burks.  Or maybe we package that pick with part of our trade exception for a proven veteran like Andre Igoudala or Rudy Gay, both rumored to maybe be available at the right price.

 

We don't need Williams, especially if we have to give something up to get him. From what I hear he will only be productive as an undersized PF, which we already have a pretty good undersized PF in Hickson. I do NOT want Igoudala, Gay would be fine but Memphis wouldn't part with him for anything we have to offer. That team was one game from the WCF, they're not going to be sellers. Kanter is THE most skilled big in the draft, he has great foot work and can do something that no Cav has done since Brad Daugherty, he can play with his back to the basket.

 

We can't over think this, we'll end up thinking ourselves out of playoff contention. There are two positions in the NBA where you build a team around, the 1 and the 5, and we have a chance to get both in the same night. We HAVE to do it if Kanter is still there, which he should be.

Kanter is a 10-15 in most any other draft.  He will be overvalued due to the lack of top flight big men. 

 

Williams is a SF in the NBA... and a good one at that.  Him and Irving are the only two "can't miss" prospects in this draft.

Kanter is a 10-15 in most any other draft.  He will be overvalued due to the lack of top flight big men. 

 

Williams is a SF in the NBA... and a good one at that.  Him and Irving are the only two "can't miss" prospects in this draft.

 

Most believe Kanter would have competed for the 1st overall pick if he was allowed to play in Kentucky this year. If you want to argue that he'd be lower in another draft, that's debatable, but we're not in another draft, we have what we have to choose from. He's the top rated big man in the draft and can make a difference in a game on offense and or defense.

 

Derrek Williams is not fast enough to be a 3, not one GM in the league projects him playing the small forward spot. At least not in his early NBA career, he may evolve into that someday but it's hard to teach the things he lacks in that area.

You seem pretty sure what every GM in the league thinks.  Williams is plenty 'fast' enough to play the 3.  The question some media folks bring up is his lateral quickness to play D at that position.  But no GMs have officially weighed in on that.

 

Kanter on the other hand does have a knock due to concerns with his athleticism.  He is best known for his play in the 2010 nike hoops summit, where he arguably outplayed. Sullinger.  However, when I watch those highlights, it concerns me that he did not dunk one time.  He doesn't seem to have much lift on his vertical in gameplay..... although I did see an impreesive clip of him dunking in practice.

Kanter on the other hand does have a knock due to concerns with his athleticism.  He is best known for his play in the 2010 nike hoops summit, where he arguably outplayed. Sullinger.  However, when I watch those highlights, it concerns me that he did not dunk one time.  He doesn't seem to have much lift on his vertical in gameplay..... although I did see an impreesive clip of him dunking in practice.

 

Dunk, shmunk. Bring back the sky hook!

I've read that Kanter has knee issues, which TERRIFIES me.  Taking seven-footers high in the draft is a huge risk, even if they are talented, because there's a much greater chance of breakdown.

His wingspan is also not overly impressive for a player his size..... and I read somewhere that people think he might be a few years older than his listed age.  Nonetheless, his skill set is undeniable.  He is very coordinated for a player of his build.

 

Here are some highlights:

 

 

 

I heard something about age issues also, but I think that was more an indictment on Turkish practices rather than Kanter in particular.  He was born in the accuracy-in-birth-certifying-loving country of Switzerland.

Every report has GM after GM placing him as a 4 in the NBA. All his success in college has been at the 4, never at the 3. I don't want him and I know that Cavs wouldn't consider trading up to get him and would possibly take him at 4 if they are indeed intending on going the "best player available" route regardless of position.

What reports from GMs?  Can you provide some links?  Also, did you watch Arizona this year?  I wouldn't call what he played the "power forward".  The Wildcats' offense was more run and gun than traditional.  I've never seen a "4" play so much on the perimeter.

 

Williams himself disagrees FWIW - http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/212573/Derrick_Williams_Sees_Himself_As_NBA_Small_Forward

 

The kid is 6'8 240.... jumps out the gym..... shoots well from the outside (60% from 3 pt line).... is fast enough to beat Nolan Smith down the court for a loose ball in the Elite 8.  He can certainly play SF.

 

Film don't lie either.  The kid is just versatile.  To say he 'can't' play SF is simply not true.  He would be an undersized, yet effective, PF.  But he could be a truly dominant SF... IMHO.

 

 

 

 

 

"Most NBA teams, including the Cavaliers, view the 6-foot-8, 241-pound Williams as more of a power forward than a small forward at the next level. Teams question whether he’s quick enough to guard small forwards."

 

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/212960/Cavs_See_Derrick_Williams_As_NBA_Power_Forward

 

 

He will say what he has to say in order to make himself seem more versatile to the NBA teams. Many hybrid 4's play outside more than in. Lewis, Jamison, Donyell Marshall...there are numerous examples. He's athletic as hell, I like his game a lot. BUT, the power forward position is the one spot where we don't need much help and since we look at him as a PF we wouldn't be interested. In my opinion Irving and Kanter are the two best picks, assuming Kanter is available which may not be the case. The center and PG are the two hardest positions to fill and we can fill them both with great players in one draft. We can go after a SF in the early 2nd round or make a trade for one.

Ohio and Delaware believe:  ;)

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2011/05/19/pic-of-the-day-delaware-believes-in-cleveland

Ohio and Delaware believe:  ;)

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2011/05/19/pic-of-the-day-delaware-believes-in-cleveland

 

Hahaha, nice! :)

I always hated red states.

Conflicting reports.  Par for the course this time of year

 

max in ohio:

I've recently read that the Cavs have Valanciunas (or like we in cleveland call him Big V) higher on their board than Kanter. Have you gotten the same vibe?

 

Jonathan Givony:

Yes. Directly from Kanter's camp in fact.

 

*  *  *  *  *

 

Tony in akron:

to me Valanciunas would be a terrific fit in cleveland next to Irving. he could play in a similar role like Tyson Chandler did in New Orleans. your thoughts?

 

Jonathan Givony:

I agree 100%. Irving is the best pick and roll facilitator in this draft, and Valanciunas is the best pick and roll finisher. They could be a phenomenal duo.

 

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1651

 

 

There is some question as to whether the Cavs would opt for Kanter or Jonas Valanciunas at this spot, but I'm told they have the Turkish big man higher on their board at the moment. He only helped himself in Chicago in terms of showing off his size, motor and level of fitness, but the workouts that will soon begin will weigh heavily on where he ultimately lands. Teams have seen Kanter play live just once (last year's Nike Hoops Summit), as he was ineligible for all of last season at Kentucky.

 

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1NOOB7oS0

 

I think I am leaning towards the theory that the Cavs want to package the #4 with at least part of their $14 mill TPE to get a proven vet who isn't too long in the tooth. 

 

 

From most of what I hear on Espn, Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams are the best two nba ready players in the draft. And I also hear that Kyrie is the only can't miss player in the 2011 draft. That being said I don't think doing that trade would be worth it. If I was them I would pick where they already are. Take Irving and whoever is the best available big on the board at 4. Or trade the number 4 and part of the trade exception they got from Lebron and get a good veteran SF, somebody in the 26-28 age range. They don't really have a SF right now. Also anybody else notice how this draft is getting trashed about how bad it is and how it doesn't matter where the Cavs pick the draft won't help them? Well the worst case scenario than would be picking in the lottery next year and it sounds like the draft is suppoused to be good in 2012.

I just spent waaaaaay too much time looking over the last 20 drafts or so, and there are only a couple that stick out as real losers.  1992 was bad, but produced Shaq and Alonzo Mourning (and Latrell Sprewell if he counts).  1994 produced Grant Hill, Glen Robinson, and Jason Kidd.  2000 is widely considered the worst, but still managed to produce Jamal Crawford, Michael Redd, and Kenyon Martin (the Cavs wisely traded Crawford for Chris Mihm- Go Paxson!)  The point being, the odds are heavily in favor of any given draft producing multiple players capable of multiple all-star game appearances.  Not every draft contains a franchise player, but it always makes sense to stockpile top picks if the price is right.  Even if you only get a solid contributor in the top ten (and chances are you will), you won't have to pay him more than $5 mil for the first three years.  Then you can always dump the player if it doesn't work out.

1996 stands out to me as a year the 'experts' said it was a weak draft.  That is how a skinny, young PG named Allen Iverson got picked first.  The draft then proceeded with Camby, Abdur-Rahim, Marbury, Ray Allen, and Antoine Walker being picked 2-6.  We picked up Potapenko at 11.  Immediately after that pick went Kobe, Stojackovic, Nash, and Jermaine O'Neal :(

 

As for this draft, I would probably project it as being weak from picks 3-10, but not beyond that.  Irving and Wiliams could be top 3 picks in just about any draft.  They are good values with the top two picks.  Then the draft is at least decently stacked with players who hold good value at the back end or just outside the lottery.  There just really are not can't miss prospects beyond Williams and Irving. 

It's also worth pointing out that it was always a weak draft when Jim Paxson was the GM.

are you trying to say dsagana diop wasn't very good?

^ Hey, he was the best African soccer player in that draft!

Edit : Until the Cavs have drafted Yinka Dare and Ed O'Bannon in back to back years, I don't want to hear complaints.

Here we go:  Trajan Langdon at #11, Chris Mihm at #7 (from Chicago), DeSagana Diop at #8, Dajuan Wagner at #6, Satan's A55hole at #1, and Luke Jackson at #11.  That's quite a track record.

It's also worth pointing out that it was always a weak draft when Jim Paxson was the GM.

 

Well said. That guy couldn't pick his nose...

It's strange to think of an alternate universe where Jim Paxson isn't COMPLETELY incompetent, the Cavs average 40-50 wins a year, the team is never in position to draft LeBron, and is therefore never purchased by the borderline spendthrift Dan Gilbert.  Thanks Jim Paxson and LeBron???

It's strange to think of an alternate universe where Jim Paxson isn't COMPLETELY incompetent, the Cavs average 40-50 wins a year, the team is never in position to draft LeBron, and is therefore never purchased by the borderline spendthrift Dan Gilbert.  Thanks Jim Paxson and LeBron???

 

Jim Paxson had been scouting LeBron since he was in grade school and it was all a part of his master plan to ensure everything fell into place for Miami to win the 2011 NBA Championship.