After just catching up on my Tristan Thompson homework (I've wasted more company time on the NBA Draft than I'd care to mention, but somehow I never read a word about TT) it does seem like something will have to give between him and JJ.  They seem to have identical bodies and are both explosive leapers.  It seems like Thompson might project as a better defender, while JJ probably has a more evolved offensive game.  It looks like TT shot under 50% from the line, while JJ has been pretty steady at around 70%.  Two things stood out though, when I went to check on JJ's numbers. Firstly, if you go to basketballreference.com and check out JJ's per-36-minute numbers, the improvement over the last 3 years has been remarkable.  He's rebounding better, getting more foul shots, and scoring more points.  Secondly, he only shot 45% from the field last year.  That's pretty unacceptable for a power forward.  However, he did shoot 55% percent the previous year, so it might just be an aberration.  I'm certainly not down on TT, and it seems like he can be a solid player, but there's no way the Cavs can carry both players.  I just hope that we can get value for one of them now that teams know we have to move somebody.

 

I think the interesting commentary to me right now, especially from Hts121, is what trades are likely since we now have spare point guards and power forwards. What teams need them and what do they have that we want?

 

So can anyone answer this question? To me, this draft will result in some trades by the Cavs. So in that respect this draft is not yet done. Question is, what trades?

Maybe Minnesota would like another undersized power forward?

I don't have trouble with putting JJ on the block.  Sure, he's talented and came a long way last season, but he's a high maintenance player.  And even when, after 3 years he became 'more consistent' and decided to use his athletic gifts to rebound and play D, he would still drift in and out at times.  And let's not discount the fact that he and his agent realize he's going into a contract year next year... So Thompson can take his spot -- with similar talents and more consistent energy, and JJ could fetch us some valuable young assets, including another 1st rounder... maybe a Lottery pick.

 

Tristan wasn't a great pick, but he wasn't horrible, either.  I would have been really upset had we taken Jonas V... Christian Eyenga's enough project players learning the game we need on our roster.  ... My problem is that Grant seemed like he had no Plan B when he reailzed Williams and Kanter would be gone by pick 4.  Other teams were wheeling and dealing for really talented kids who do what Cavs' players can't do consistently: put the ball in the hoop.

 

... and I will not let Grant off the hook for his absurd move in throwing away Justin Harper -- I stretch forward who has a sweet outside shooting touch.  Please, don't bore me with the company line that, in accepting Orlando's No. 2s the next few years is stockpiling assests... has Grant ever heard the saying: a Bird in hand is worth 2..."  Otis Smith was laying for Harper and clearly fleeced Grant....

 

So yes, I'm pleased Grant secured Irving, a critical point guard and the best player in the draft.  But he lost me with subsequent moves (and non-moves); we failed to maximize the amazing position we had, which only comes around once in a Blue Moon... if ever.

Hickson is a headcase and plays no D.  I like him alot...but i think he is on the block...he tweeted "Go get yourself a ring King" during the NBA finals...ummmm NO.

Here's the Cavs' Blog reaction to the draft.

 

Another Cavs Draft Reaction – by Kevin Hetrick

June 24th, 2011 by Kevin Hetrick

 

 

The following post is fairly critical of the Cavs’ draft day decisions. I will preface the post by noting that the Cavs have much more information at their disposal than I do and surely have very talented people working on their player evaluations. They could also have a big trade in the works. Finally, it is foolish to evaluate a draft one day afterwards. With that said…

 

My reaction to the Cavs’ draft is confusion. Draft day started with so much promise. The Cavs had the 1st and 4th picks, two second rounders, a huge trade exception, and an owner willing to spend money. The options seemed limitless and, at a minimum, it appeared the day should end with the Cavs having two long-term starters and a quality role player in tow. Something completely different happened. No picks were bought or traded for; instead a pick was traded away. At #4, the Cavs reached for a player that most had in the 8 – 10 range; who also plays the same position as two of their three best players under the age of thirty. Of their fifteen players, the Cavs have four point guards and six power forwards. Are the Cavs trying to remake themselves as the Minnesota Timberwolves? The trade exception expires in two weeks. Surely a trade is coming. This can’t be the last memory prior to a depressing lockout, can it? For pick by pick analysis:

 

 

http://www.cavstheblog.com/

Tristan wasn't a great pick, but he wasn't horrible, either.  I would have been really upset had we taken Jonas V... Christian Eyenga's enough project players learning the game we need on our roster.  ... My problem is that Grant seemed like he had no Plan B when he reailzed Williams and Kanter would be gone by pick 4.  Other teams were wheeling and dealing for really talented kids who do what Cavs' players can't do consistently: put the ball in the hoop.

 

Problem was, there was no market for Brandon Knight.  What would have been your plan B?  Its not like they didn't try to move down.  Every report I have read has said that they desperately wanted to do so.  But you should know by now that our GM's don't 'lose' in trades.  They have to get the better end of it and won't just trade just to trade to appease an impatient fan base.

 

I wasn't that high on Justin Harper so I am not unhappy with them trading him.  I have no idea why everyone is talking so highly about him.  This is a guy who averaged in single digits his first two years and barely cracked double digit scoring his junior year while playing at a school where most of the opponents centers were shorter than him.  He only really came on his senior year.  Truly talented stretch 4's don't last until the second round, especially not in this draft.  Also, keep in mind that those Orlando 2nd's could be pretty high if Dwight leaves and they go into rebuild mode.

Hickson isn't going to re-sign here.  Thus, he will be traded, and he will bring some assets.  Sounds like Grant may not be opposed to letting the trade exception expire, or at least take into the time period following the lockout and roll the dice on seeing if the NBA gives the Cavs an extention (which would make it a valuable chip).  Sessions will also likely be traded--he is coveted by a few teams as well and should bring something nice back.  Beyond that, the only thing I have a big problem with is what the Cavaliers did in the draft after their first two picks.  They essentially did nothing and I had higher hopes.  Oh well...

Here's an interesting take on why the Cavs passed on Jonas.  He is definitely not coming over next year and he won't sign a contract here until he does come over.  With the new CBA negotiations, a big issue is going to be rookie salary scale.  The owners want it slashed.  The players honestly couldn't care less about it, but will use it as a bargaining chip.  In the end, it will be lowered probably both in dollar figures and guarantees.  Taking that into account and if the 'experts' are right about Jonas' potential, who's to say that Jonas won't be able to make boatloads more money over in Europe 2 years from now and just decides he is better off staying over there?

Geeze that lineup is gay some major changes really needs to made ...

 

I take the use of "gay" in that context as disparaging, and I take exception to it. Perhaps you haven't been around here long enough to be aware that a considerable number of long-time active forumers are openly gay, including some among the admin/moderator ranks. You get a pass on it this time.

Geeze that lineup is gay some major changes really needs to made ...

 

I take the use of "gay" in that context as disparaging, and I take exception to it. Perhaps you haven't been around here long enough to be aware that a considerable number of long-time active forumers are openly gay, including some among the admin/moderator ranks. You get a pass on it this time.

 

Thank you.

Hickson for Omar Caspi and a future 1st rounder?  I'd probably do it.  I like Caspi a lot and think he has been underutilized in Sacramento.  He has a bit of an ego, but then again so does JJ.  We need a swing player and have a glut of power forwards.  We also have been rumored of being interested in Caspi for years.  It's not a home run, but it makes sense IMHO.  I don't know if we can do much better for JJ.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2011/06/cavs_may_trade_jj_hickson_to_k.html

^I'd do it too. Get Hickson out of here. 

^I'd do it too. Get Hickson out of here. 

 

It's official according to Ohio.com

Yep.  But the pick has some protection to it.  Lottery protected next year.  Top 12 in 2013.  And Top 10 in 2015-2017.  If not used by then, it converts to a second round pick.  So, it is somewhat realistic, that this is JJ for Caspi and 2017 2nd round pick.  I'll still take it.  Our jewish population is sure to love it.

Man I was pretty psyched when I saw that it was for Casspi and a first-rounder.  Now I'm not so sure with all these conditions.  I think I rather would have had Amare Stoudemire two years ago.  Oh well, let's hear it for your 42-40 8th seed Anaheim Kings!

.... Anaheim of Los Angelos County Kings.

Okay, I guess.  Don't like the protections on the pick, though.  Oh well, perhaps it could be used to put together a package trade later on down the line.  Next year's draft should be pretty deep, too.

 

As for the Hickson for Stoudemire discussion, ugh...

The deal would not have been Hickson straight up for JJ.  We would have had to throw in Z and some picks as well.  I also don't think the deal was as close to being done as some rumors have portrayed it to be.  Phoenix was waffling for sure.

The deal would not have been Hickson straight up for JJ.  We would have had to throw in Z and some picks as well.  I also don't think the deal was as close to being done as some rumors have portrayed it to be.  Phoenix was waffling for sure.

 

Yeah, that's my point.  I know they wanted Z for sure, which wouldn't have been a big issue had the Cavs still been able to bring him back, but I don't remember that they wanted draft picks.  Makes it even worse for the Cavs and even better that they didn't pull the trigger.  All to potentially rent a guy for a few months?  Definitely not worth it--UNLESS--adding Stoudemire absolutely guaranteed a title.  Would it have?  I don't want to know the answer to that question... ;)

Maybe I'm missing something, help me out...

 

We draft a stretch 3-4 in Justin Harper and trade him away for 2 Orlando 2nd round draft picks that Chris Grant (and Hts) pray will be valualbe IF Dwight Howard leaves and, IF, Orlando can't get value for him and IF Orlando then becomes a Lottery team (remember, Denver traded Carmelo and Chauncey Billups and still went to the playoffs ... and were stronger than the Knicks who traded for Melo/Chauncey).

 

Then we trade our most valuable asset, JJ Hickson, for... a bench-riding Casspi (a bench rider on a 24-win lottery, at that) plus a lottery-protected pick we probably won't be able to use for years given the still weak status of the Kings.  I agree with Terry Pluto; I didn't  have a problem trading JJ, but we didn't get nearly the value we could or should have... and I don't buy this (alleged theor) that deep pocket-Gilbert somehow got skittish and had to move JJ before the Lockout for fear of a hard salary cap after the strike.  And what if we moved on JJ too soon?  Supposedly Gilbert didn't want to give JJ a Varejao contract, but what if JJ (at the ripe old age of 22) continued on his growth arc and becomes the solid 20-10 power forward we know he could/should be?  ... so now we're counting on reach no. 4 draft pick Tristan Thompson to step right into the NBA and pick up the mantle of JJ... Lots of luck, hope and prayer will be needed for that.

 

... and as for the sought after stretch-4 we've been searching for... how will it feel if Justin Harper, who we had then traded, turns out to be BETTER than Omri Casspi, who we traded our best player for?  And if Casspi becomes a journeyman and Harper becomes an All Star?  ... better lock up the tar & feathers.

 

People can defend Grant all they want, but after coming out of the box strong with the Mo/Moon for Davis+ (eventually) No.1 pick (Kyrie Irving), Grant has had his pocket's picked by his trade partners.  The JJ trade was a panic move imho.  He's signifcantly better than Casspi and there was no reason to hurry up and do this deal...

 

... oh yeah, and the vaunted $14.5M trade exception for LeBron appears to have died unused. 

I can certainly understand the frustration, BUT: JJ put those numbers up this year (I'm going to contradict about 30 of my previous posts) as one of if not THE primary scoring option on an awful team.  Progress or not, it would be hard to argue that his numbers weren't a bit inflated last year.  Also, there is about a 4% chance that Justin Harper will end up being better than Omri Casspi.  I don't know why everybody thinks a second round pick in an awful draft is suddenly valuable. Also, I don't know that you can say with any certainty that Casspi is any worse than JJ.  ALSO, the protected pick almost ensures that we don't get hosed.  That is, if  JJ ends up being the perfect front-court partner for Jog DMC (can't take credit for that one, but it's one of the best derisive nicknames I've ever heard), then Sacramento slides on up to a low seed in the West and we get a top-15ish pick in a strong draft.  ALLLLSO, JJ isn't going to be worth whatever contract he signs after this season and there's no guarantee he would have signed with us anyways.  I think 2011 JJ has Larry Hughes contract year written all over him.

I'm not worried so much about the trade exception.  But I am a little skeptical about a few of the other moves that Grant has made.

Maybe I'm missing something, help me out...

 

We draft a stretch 3-4 in Justin Harper and trade him away for 2 Orlando 2nd round draft picks that Chris Grant (and Hts) pray will be valualbe IF Dwight Howard leaves and, IF, Orlando can't get value for him and IF Orlando then becomes a Lottery team (remember, Denver traded Carmelo and Chauncey Billups and still went to the playoffs ... and were stronger than the Knicks who traded for Melo/Chauncey).

 

Then we trade our most valuable asset, JJ Hickson, for... a bench-riding Casspi (a bench rider on a 24-win lottery, at that) plus a lottery-protected pick we probably won't be able to use for years given the still weak status of the Kings.  I agree with Terry Pluto; I didn't  have a problem trading JJ, but we didn't get nearly the value we could or should have... and I don't buy this (alleged theor) that deep pocket-Gilbert somehow got skittish and had to move JJ before the Lockout for fear of a hard salary cap after the strike.  And what if we moved on JJ too soon?  Supposedly Gilbert didn't want to give JJ a Varejao contract, but what if JJ (at the ripe old age of 22) continued on his growth arc and becomes the solid 20-10 power forward we know he could/should be?  ... so now we're counting on reach no. 4 draft pick Tristan Thompson to step right into the NBA and pick up the mantle of JJ... Lots of luck, hope and prayer will be needed for that.

 

... and as for the sought after stretch-4 we've been searching for... how will it feel if Justin Harper, who we had then traded, turns out to be BETTER than Omri Casspi, who we traded our best player for?  And if Casspi becomes a journeyman and Harper becomes an All Star?  ... better lock up the tar & feathers.

 

People can defend Grant all they want, but after coming out of the box strong with the Mo/Moon for Davis+ (eventually) No.1 pick (Kyrie Irving), Grant has had his pocket's picked by his trade partners.  The JJ trade was a panic move imho.  He's signifcantly better than Casspi and there was no reason to hurry up and do this deal...

 

... oh yeah, and the vaunted $14.5M trade exception for LeBron appears to have died unused. 

 

Cleveland didnt take Harper.  We made that trade before we drafted Harper.  Even though the cavs called it in...it was Orlando who made that pick

I hope you guys are right... Again, I'm not saying JJ was the 2nd coming of Karl Malone or that I'm sure he would have been a star here.  No, he frustrated Byron Scott as much as he did Mike Brown (I will say it's kind of maddening that the one player who Scott really worked with who seriously upped his game in last year's post LeBron disaster season, was JJ -- now, all that hard work is down the toilet-- kind of a waste)... I just wish we'd waited a bit to maximize JJ as a trump trading card.  Casspi's a nice player and will help us; I just wish we'd gotten more... and, no, not a protected lottery pick.  Hey, whenever the NBA plays again, the Kings may play themselves into the playoffs which means, the pick would be ours to use.  And maybe Casspi will flourish with a PG like Irving and power forwards like Thompson or Samuels or Jamison or even Andy, if Erden and Hollins nail down the 5.  We can always hope.

This had nothing to do with trading talent for talent. This was trading a pain in the ass for a needed position. JJ is a 4 but Casspi is a 3, we don't have a legitimate small forward on this team save that bucket of talent Alonzo Gee. From what I'm hearing is that there won't be a season this year anyway, let those overpaid A-holes miss a few paychecks. The owners need to take that league back. My only question is what happens to next years draft if there's no season? Do we get the 4th pick automatically next year and everyone else keeps their order in the draft?

I'm so excited that the Cavalier's new D-League team is coming to Canton!  They will play 25 home games next year and according to the Canton Repository, tickets should be affordable.  It's just so out of the blue.... I feel like I am having an awesome dream.

That is a good thing for the Cavs and Canton. Glad to hear it and the Cavs will be only the 5th team to have their own dedicated D-league team.

Looks like the PD has settled on Tom Reed as the new Cavs beat reporter for the paper.  I don't know much about Reed, but thank God we don't have to go through another season with the highly disinterested MS Boyer covering the team.  She may have been better than Branson Wright, but that ain't saying much.

I couldn't agree more. I would skip over her column in the Sunday paper.

And they'll have a lot to report on in a year when they actually play basketball again.

With training camps set to open and free agency about to begin, time to fire this thread back up.  Remember, the Cavs still have a $14 million trade exception, although I don't expect them to use it (at least not all of it).  Further, Sessions is still trade bait in my mind given his age and productivity last year, and having Baron and Kyrie at the point already.  He could bring back some value.  As could Jamison given his massive expiring contract, but I wouldn't expect them to trade him before the trade deadline when they can maximize his value.  Of course, they could also just let him expire and create some cap room.  As it stands right now, our depth chart is looking meh at best (PG being the exception:

 

PG - Baron - Kyrie - Sessions

SG - Parker - Eyenga - Harris

SF - Caspi - Gee

PF - Jamison - TT - Samuels

C - Varejao - Erden

 

Did I miss anybody of significance?

Wow, that is a poor depth chart. I hope sessions is gone, too much of a ball hog.

 

With training camps set to open and free agency about to begin, time to fire this thread back up.  Remember, the Cavs still have a $14 million trade exception, although I don't expect them to use it (at least not all of it).  Further, Sessions is still trade bait in my mind given his age and productivity last year, and having Baron and Kyrie at the point already.  He could bring back some value.  As could Jamison given his massive expiring contract, but I wouldn't expect them to trade him before the trade deadline when they can maximize his value.  Of course, they could also just let him expire and create some cap room.  As it stands right now, our depth chart is looking meh at best (PG being the exception:

 

PG - Baron - Kyrie - Sessions

SG - Parker - Eyenga - Harris

SF - Caspi - Gee

PF - Jamison - TT - Samuels

C - Varejao - Erden

 

Did I miss anybody of significance?

 

Ryan Hollins played decent the last month or so. 

I could see keeping Sessions and Davis this year, trading davis' expiring contract next year, and keeping sessions as a backup pg (his ideal position). I don't see any point in the Cavs using their amnesty on Davis, since nobody expects them to be good this year, and his contract will be valuable next year. I'd like to see them move Jamison, but I don't know what they'll get for him (2nd rounder?) Just please god don't let Baron Davis end up on the Heat.

A round of applause for Dan Gilbert for his statement on the Chris Paul situation!!! Good to see someone with balls in our town.

 

One thing I don't get it is people criticizing him, saying now free agents won't want to play for the Cavs. Funny thing is I don't remember any FA coming out here to begin with.

 

With the casino and investments Gilbert has made, he really seems to believe in the town.  Unlike that Forest City family that seems to invest everywhere but here (bad feelings about Tower City's decline?), but I digress.

His line about the Washington Generals was epic.

I haven't read anything about this, but the fact that Bill Simmons is so pissed off means I can assume it's something I'll agree with and good for the NBA where more than 6 teams exist.

Another thing I like about the guy is the anticipation of the inevitable cleveland.com announcent where he/his group finally take Tower City away from FC entirely and redevelop it to something we can be proud of. You know that announcement is coming.

I don't have a problem with Dan Gilbert being a love-him-or-hate-him owner. There will be a small number of players who will be turned off by that, but as someone already said - they probably don't want to be in Cleveland anyway.

 

The trade wasn't that awful, really. I just don't like the "must trade star player in year 4/5" de facto rule that's being set.

The Chris Paul deal would have given the Hornets more long-term stability. Now the Hornets will get nothing after Paul leaves by free agency. If anyone ought to know what happens to a team after its superstar leaves without getting anything in return, its Gilbert. The objection to the Hornets' trade may have just weakened, if not killed a franchise. I thought Gilbert was trying to save the smaller market teams??

^ The problem is, once you allow trades to be forced after year 4/5 by EVERY star player in a small market, the trend will be ever downward in how much you can get for them. This wasn't a terrible deal, but what about the next one? And the one after that?

 

There should have been revenue sharing, there should have been better incentives for teams to keep their stars. The new CBA lets them pay a little bit more...but it's not going to change anything.

^ The problem is, once you allow trades to be forced after year 4/5 by EVERY star player in a small market, the trend will be ever downward in how much you can get for them. This wasn't a terrible deal, but what about the next one? And the one after that?

 

It's better than the alternative -- getting nothing in return when the free agent bolts for the big-market team which gets to keep all of its draft picks and bench players that could otherwise start on a .500 team. I think prohibiting such trades only makes the small market teams worse, so they lose more games, lose more money and risk folding.

 

Gilbert can bitch all he wants, but this is the CBA. And that's life for the next 6-10 years.

And it's a problem where a league exists where teams should be "content" with taking other team's leftovers because it's better than the alternative.  The league needs to create rules that give all teams a shot at retaining their superstars, or just go ahead and eliminate the 22-24 teams that it's tacitly admitting will never have a shot at winning.

 

By the way, this isn't just Gilbert "bitching."  Many others agree with him and I'm not even sure that he was planning on being the ring-leader against this trade.  Someone leaked that e-mail and I'm guessing they were not from Gilbert's camp.

 

The smaller market owners were pacified and promised that things would be better under the new CBA so the league could move forward and play ball on Christmas.  It took less than two weeks to show that the promise was garbage and I think it's great that Gilbert and other owners are using what little leverage they have left to strike back.

His line about the Washington Generals was epic.

 

Not to toot my own horn, but I used that line somewhere (can't remember where now) at least as far back as a month ago.

This was a fair trade that really should not have been blocked.  I think Gilbert should lay low for a while because within the last year he has become nationally known for three things: Lebron Letter, War-hawk and now, trade blocker.  He is gaining a reputation for being anti-player and that cant be good for business.

The trade should have probably gone through, and I do wish that Dan Gilbert would keep it quiet for the most part.  But ESPN's coverage of this non-trade has been terrible.  They are showing exactly how biased they are in favor of player movement. 

Not to toot my own horn, but I used that line somewhere (can't remember where now) at least as far back as a month ago.

 

Maybe Dan Gilbert reads Urban Ohio.

Guys, let's be clear about something here.  We don't know that Gilbert ever intended his Thursday night correspondence with Stern to be released to the public.  Further I suspect that he is not nearly the only owner that has communicated with Stern issues over all of this superstar big market realignment.  As far as Gilbert is concerned, he may just have been making what was completely normal contact with Stern that ended up being "mysteriously" leaked.  I wish he would lay low for a while, too, but truthfully unless he specifically made this email public himself (or someone from the Cavaliers did with his blessing), I don't know how we can fault him here for speaking up privately if that's really what he did. 

 

If you ask me, I don't think it's any coincidence that his name came out almost instantly in connection with the trade veto.  Gilbert makes for an easy boogeyman these days and I think that somebody at the NBA offices or with another franchise let the cat out of the bag knowing that it would place more attention on him.

It was also reported that the email was time stamped after the deal had already been killed by Stern.