I'm sure Minnesota is hating that as much as the Cavs are loving it.

 

Love also has opted out of playing for Team USA basketball. Lots of jokes on Twitter that he opted out because needs the extra time to pack for Cleveland.

 

 

Trust me on this.  The Cavs will NOT trade for KLove without an assurance that he is not opting out of his deal next summer

 

My point is that WE don't know yet what assurances there are or aren't. That's all. For all we know Love could want to go long term with Boston or Chicago or Golden State.

 

p.s. can't find your SAS report

 

It was on Mike&Mike, not First Take.  Here ya' go - http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=11262634 (approx. 6:00)

 

thanks!

I don't consider anything a done deal until it actually is. But it sure sounds like Minnesota is acting like it's a done deal.........

 

Minnesota eyes Thaddeus Young

Updated: July 28, 2014, 4:05 PM ET

By Marc Stein | ESPN.com

 

The Minnesota Timberwolves have expressed interest in Philadelphia 76ers power forward Thaddeus Young as a potential replacement for Kevin Love, according to sources close to the situation.

 

Sources told ESPN.com that the Wolves, while continuing to discuss trade proposals that would send Love to the Cleveland Cavaliers, have been exploring their options for acquiring Young from the Sixers, either through a separate transaction or as part of an expanded Love trade.

 

Whether Philadelphia proves willing to part with Young, though, remains to be seen.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/11277117/minnesota-timberwolves-explore-acquiring-philadelphia-76ers-pf-thaddeus-young-potential-replacement-kevin-love

Why Fans Are Now More Into Free-Agent Negotiations Than Games

 

By Will Leitch

 

At halftime of game two of the NBA Eastern Conference Finals in May, ESPN analyst Bill Simmons voiced a strange theory about why LeBron James, the best player in the NBA, had played poorly in the first half. LeBron’s Heat were down 1-0 in the series to the Pacers, and even though Miami led at halftime, LeBron had struggled, looking lifeless and distracted. Simmons, who, like the rest of us, had been watching the NBA draft lottery before the game (in which LeBron’s former team, Cleveland, had secured the No. 1 pick), had a guess as to why.

 

“LeBron came out kind of strange,” Simmons said. “I was almost wondering, Did someone tell him Cleveland won the lottery? Was he thinking about that?”

 

Now, it is probably worth pointing out that this makes no sense. LeBron James was going for his third consecutive NBA title, his team was behind in a critical series, and he had to carry aging, injured teammates on his back. Of all the things on his mind at that moment, a Ping-Pong ball coming up Cleveland was rather far behind I am thirsty from all this running around and jumping (if anyone had even told him in the first place). The notion that something so profoundly beside the point would somehow affect James’s game—the thing he is better at than anything else in the world—was absurd. If LeBron James really were distracted by such silliness, he would spend most of his time on the court tripping over his own feet.

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/free-agent-negotiations.html?mi

Good article. The NFL draft is another example, as is a movie about the draft!

IMO, getting lost in all of the LeBron and KLove talk is how good the star we already had really is.  Kyrie has always looked great playing next to other great players, and I see him benefiting greatly from LBJ's presence on the team.  He was MVP of the Rising Stars game his rookie year, the MVP of the All-Star game this past year, and his performances against Team USA (in scrimmages) from 2012 still draw praise to this day.  It is going to be real interesting to see how NBA defenses deal with him when he is not the center of their attention. 

 

You have to look closely, but the one thing that always amazes me about Kyrie is his ability to perform two totally separate tasks at the same time with his two hands.  It sounds easy, but the head pat, belly rub game always did sound easier than it was.  Kyrie takes it to a different level.  He can be doing some sick one-handed cross over with one hand while using the other to fend off a defender trying to sneak in from behind.  The way he uses his off-hand is unmatched IMO.  He does little things, like pulling on an opponents jersey or knocking away a swipe, all while focusing on something completely different. 

 

Good read - http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/29/kyrie-irvings-world-looks-pretty-good-right-now/

 

Good article. The NFL draft is another example, as is a movie about the draft!

 

Thanks.

IMO, getting lost in all of the LeBron and KLove talk is how good the star we already had really is.  Kyrie has always looked great playing next to other great players, and I see him benefiting greatly from LBJ's presence on the team.  He was MVP of the Rising Stars game his rookie year, the MVP of the All-Star game this past year, and his performances against Team USA (in scrimmages) from 2012 still draw praise to this day.  It is going to be real interesting to see how NBA defenses deal with him when he is not the center of their attention. 

 

You have to look closely, but the one thing that always amazes me about Kyrie is his ability to perform two totally separate tasks at the same time with his two hands.  It sounds easy, but the head pat, belly rub game always did sound easier than it was.  Kyrie takes it to a different level.  He can be doing some sick one-handed cross over with one hand while using the other to fend off a defender trying to sneak in from behind.  The way he uses his off-hand is unmatched IMO.  He does little things, like pulling on an opponents jersey or knocking away a swipe, all while focusing on something completely different. 

 

Good read - http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/29/kyrie-irvings-world-looks-pretty-good-right-now/

 

 

I completely agree.  I think Kyrie is not only a great player, but extremely fun to watch.  Not only does he have a great ability to use both hands independently as you mentioned, but his hands are so quick and his handle on the ball is like glue.  I think he'll be awesome when defenses have to worry about other stars as well, which is why I think he has performed so well in some of the situations you mentioned.

I'm very interested to see if Kyrie is selected for the final World Cup roster.  The squad currently in LV trying out for the team is LOADED at PG - Derrick Rose (healthy again), Kyrie Irving, Stephen Curry, Damian Lillard, and John Wall.  I think he makes it (doesn't hurt that Coach K is the coach of Team USA), but that is some stiff competition.  They should take at least 3 of them, possibly four given that all 5 can probably also play SG in international play.

IMO, getting lost in all of the LeBron and KLove talk is how good the star we already had really is.  Kyrie has always looked great playing next to other great players, and I see him benefiting greatly from LBJ's presence on the team.  He was MVP of the Rising Stars game his rookie year, the MVP of the All-Star game this past year, and his performances against Team USA (in scrimmages) from 2012 still draw praise to this day.  It is going to be real interesting to see how NBA defenses deal with him when he is not the center of their attention. 

 

You have to look closely, but the one thing that always amazes me about Kyrie is his ability to perform two totally separate tasks at the same time with his two hands.  It sounds easy, but the head pat, belly rub game always did sound easier than it was.  Kyrie takes it to a different level.  He can be doing some sick one-handed cross over with one hand while using the other to fend off a defender trying to sneak in from behind.  The way he uses his off-hand is unmatched IMO.  He does little things, like pulling on an opponents jersey or knocking away a swipe, all while focusing on something completely different. 

 

Good read - http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/29/kyrie-irvings-world-looks-pretty-good-right-now/

 

 

I completely agree.  I think Kyrie is not only a great player, but extremely fun to watch.  Not only does he have a great ability to use both hands independently as you mentioned, but his hands are so quick and his handle on the ball is like glue.  I think he'll be awesome when defenses have to worry about other stars as well, which is why I think he has performed so well in some of the situations you mentioned.

 

The thing about Kyrie is when he doesn't have to be the one to carry a team he is much more likely to do so anyway.

^I think that's true of a number of star players, E Rocc.  Look at how much LeBron relaxed, and became THE MAN in Miami when Wade and Bosh (and Shane Battier, and Mario Chalmers, and Mike Miller and then Ray Allen) came in and really contributed to the Heat's championships... But then, of course, the pressure mounted last playoffs, and esp in the Finals, when all those guys but LeBron disappeared -- it was Cavs all over again... I think we got a glimpse of how really good LeBron and Kyrie can play off each other's game in last season's All Star game, ... lax D even though it is.

NBA on ESPN @ESPNNBA  ·  16m

Kevin Love to Cavs is increasingly sounding more like WHEN than IF, sources tell @ESPNSteinLine and @WindhorstESPN.

 

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine  ·  17m

ESPN sources say Wolves currently only in talks w/Cavs on Love deal; Bulls essentially moving on and GSW still not giving up Klay Thompson

NBA on ESPN @ESPNNBA  ·  16m

Kevin Love to Cavs is increasingly sounding more like WHEN than IF, sources tell @ESPNSteinLine and @WindhorstESPN.

 

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine  ·  17m

ESPN sources say Wolves currently only in talks w/Cavs on Love deal; Bulls essentially moving on and GSW still not giving up Klay Thompson

 

Seems to me that if Cleveland is the only team really in the running for Love (or if he's made it clear that that's the only place he'll accept a trade to), it gives the Cavaliers more leverage and hopefully increases the possibility of them keeping Wiggins. Although earlier I was hearing it was going to be Wiggins and Waiters for Love, which I still think is too much considering the precedent for similar such situations/trades.

^No way would I give them Wiggins AND Waiters.  Bennett, OK.  I'm not wild about that either, but definitely not Waiters; we're suckers if we give up the very coveted 1st pick and a quality, up and coming 2 guard, I don't care what is his alleged problems with Kyrie.  We're suckers because we know if we hold out, Minnesota's asking price is going to go down because of the fear that they could lose Love for nothing.

The Waiters rumors are more internet banter.... Not any credible sources. It originates from the thought of in involving Philly as a third team.

I think its going to be Wiggins.  Lebron has been noted to say he likes Waiters game and Waiters is a couple years ahead of Wiggins.  Im sure Lebron likes Wiggins but doesnt see the value considering when Wiggins hits his peak, Lebron will probably be retired.  With Love announcing he wants CLE, i am hopeful we dont give up more than one piece of our young talent.  I would be OK with Wiggins, those stiffs we traded for and two first round picks maybe next year.  Would like to keep Bennett if we get rid of Wiggins.  I would give up Bennett if we could keep Wiggins.  Not really interested in Kevin Martin or JJ Barea, either

^I don't want Martin or Barea either, but I've heard that as part of the Love deal, we may have to take back Martin's bad contract... but again, that's just rumor at this point.

^It is going to be hard enough making the salaries match with just Love involved.  Remember, unlike past years, we don't have any trade exceptions to use and we are not under the cap.  We have to send out close to $15mill on the books next year in order to absorb Love's contract.  Martin and/or Barea are likely headed to a third team able to absorb their contracts if they are involved.  Philly still has a way's to go in achieving minimum roster salary rules, so the rumblings of their involvement as a third team are expected.

 

^^Wiggins plus the stiffs plus two picks won't get it done even if Minny would accept that.  We still have to match salaries.  Wiggins plus the stiffs only adds up to $8-9mill.  Throw in Bennett and his close to $6mill contract, and we would be within the rules of the CBA.  ESPN.com has a "trade machine" you can use to see whether a deal will work.

 

I'll go on the record now saying I want Love and am willing to give up any TWO of Wiggins, Bennett, TT, and Waiters to get him, plus a future pick or two.  I would hope it wouldn't be Bennett and TT or Wiggins and Waiters, especially not the latter because it would leave us terribly thin at the 2 guard.  If a third player from that group is involved, we better be getting back (in addition to Love) someone like Dieng or Brewer or one of Philly's young bigs. 

If Philadelphia is involved (76ers are below the salary cap), do we have to trade as many contracts to make this work?

We still have to match what is coming back to us with what we are sending out.  However, there can be an imbalance in what Minny sends out (i.e. Barea and Martin) to a team under the cap (such as Philly).  So, the trade could potentially look something like this.....

 

To Cleveland from Minny - KLove ($15mill)

From Cleveland to Minny - Wiggins ($5.5mill), Bennett ($5.8mill), the three nonguaranteed contracts received from Utah ($3.5mill), and a future first rounder

 

Then we could get Philly involved by tossing them either Waiters or another future first rounder (more likely the latter) to incentivize them to take back one or both of Minny's bad contracts.  Philly would not have to send out any contracts, but I believe they'd have to give up something to be involved, probably a future 2nd rounder, just to comply with the rules.

I think its going to be Wiggins.  Lebron has been noted to say he likes Waiters game and Waiters is a couple years ahead of Wiggins.  Im sure Lebron likes Wiggins but doesnt see the value considering when Wiggins hits his peak, Lebron will probably be retired.  With Love announcing he wants CLE, i am hopeful we dont give up more than one piece of our young talent.  I would be OK with Wiggins, those stiffs we traded for and two first round picks maybe next year.  Would like to keep Bennett if we get rid of Wiggins.  I would give up Bennett if we could keep Wiggins.  Not really interested in Kevin Martin or JJ Barea, either

To me that is the reason you keep him, if Wiggins blossoms to what people expect from him or relatively close in 3-5 years that means when LeBron gets older (35+) you can easily put Wiggins in LeBrons spot in the rotation when he hangs the towel up. I'm not saying that the Cavs wouldn't miss LeBron but it would soften the blow a good amount.

^That's a big role of the dice.  Based on my own pre-draft evaluation of Wiggins' game and potential, it's not one I would take.  You know what you are getting in Love and if Wiggins even comes close to matching Love's production, you'd be lucky IMO.  Remember too, Love is only 25 years old.  He still has a ton of good basketball left in him.  Kyrie is only 22.  Dion is only 22.

 

I did become more intrigued by Wiggins with the thought of pairing him with Lebron.  But that was more long-term thinking.  Wiggins is not ready to play the 2.  His handles in summer league were awful...... like, Alonzo Gee awful.  He was not terribly productive - 15 pts and 40% shooting against D-League level talent.  His defense was OK, but I don't see the elite defender yet.  Potential is there, but don't forget that he did not make any of his conference's all-defensive teams.  The most he might do for you in the next year or two is a win a dunk contest.  Lebron is in his prime and we need to maximize that window.

We still have to match what is coming back to us with what we are sending out.  However, there can be an imbalance in what Minny sends out (i.e. Barea and Martin) to a team under the cap (such as Philly).  So, the trade could potentially look something like this.....

 

To Cleveland from Minny - KLove ($15mill)

From Cleveland to Minny - Wiggins ($5.5mill), Bennett ($5.8mill), the three nonguaranteed contracts received from Utah ($3.5mill), and a future first rounder

 

Then we could get Philly involved by tossing them either Waiters or another future first rounder (more likely the latter) to incentivize them to take back one or both of Minny's bad contracts.  Philly would not have to send out any contracts, but I believe they'd have to give up something to be involved, probably a future 2nd rounder, just to comply with the rules.

 

I thought you only have to come within 80% of the returning salary?

 

Edit:  If you want to be thoroughly confused on the trades and salary cap... http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82

 

Thanks for the info, Hts121. And yes, Lebron is in his prime. He's going to start slowing down in a few years -- right about when Wiggins starts hitting his prime. So the net effect is the Cavs stay good but not dominant. That's not good enough.

 

Question: do we know if Wiggins will be a top-10 player? Well, we know Kevin Love is a top-10 player right now. I think you make that trade in a heartbeat.

^Every Executive/Coach I've seen polled on the issue has reached the same conclusion.  Even Coach K (who normally would not opine on such an issue) says you do it without thinking twice.

 

^^I am not sure what the exact number is, but there is some wiggle room.  But, regardless, 80% of KLove's $15.7mill salary is still $12.5mill..... so Wiggins plus the scrubs won't work

Wiggins is not ready to play the 2.  His handles in summer league were awful...... like, Alonzo Gee Jabari Parker awful.  He was not terribly productive - 15 pts and 40% shooting against D-League level talent.

Fixed that for you!

Your boy Jabari had similar SL numbers,  and averaged 5 TO's pg against D-league talent, and didn't have to deal with all of the trade rumors.

Wiggins  4 GP, 30.0 MPG, 15.5 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 0.3 APG, 2.8 TO, 40.5 FG%

Parker    5 GP, 28.6 MPG, 15.6 PPG, 8.2 RPG, 1.4 APG, 5.0 TO, 41.9 FG%

Nobody is talking about turning Jabari into a 2-guard.  He is a 3 who can play some 4.  Wiggins is a 3, who might someday be able to play at the 2.  But I would still take Parker's handles right now over Wiggins' any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.  The only game I watched of the Bucks was the one against the Cavs, so I don't know the source of Parker's turnovers.  It could've been errant passes to players out of position.  It could've been him losing control of the ball when trying to break down a defense.  With Wiggins, is was mostly all the latter.  He still dribbles up to his nipples and seems to have to look down at the ball anytime he attempts a cross-over, still losing control of the ball some of the times.  Like I said before the draft, I really can't remember a wing player selected #1 overall who was so raw with actual basketball skills.  His athletic ability is unbelievable.  So is Gerald Green's.

The Waiters rumors are more internet banter.... Not any credible sources. It originates from the thought of in involving Philly as a third team.

 

Yeah in which case I think I remember hearing that Philly would be giving us someone as well.

 

Either way, going back to my original point, we still have a couple of somewhat valuable picks in upcoming drafts, so if we're really the only ones in the Love sweepstakes, I think Wiggins needs to come off the table.

^But if Wiggins is off the table, you understand that Waiters (in all likelihood) has to be included?  When you take Wiggins off the table, you also take his $5.5 mill in salary off the table.

It's all about salaries. We're going to have to get rid of some players to get Love.

 

Some of these players are no longer with the Cavs, but who else on this list has to go to create enough cap space so Love can be added to the roster? We already traded Jack, Karasev, Zeller to help make room for LeBron. Carick Felix was moved to help create some more room. But a lot more needs to be done to fit Love under the cap....

 

^And we won't want to include Haywood, considering his trade value next summer due to his $10.5mill NON-guaranteed salary for the following year which we could use to pull off another blockbuster next summer if we wanted..... OR we could simply waive him and get some cap relief (which is what any team that trades for him will do).

^It is going to be hard enough making the salaries match with just Love involved.  Remember, unlike past years, we don't have any trade exceptions to use and we are not under the cap.  We have to send out close to $15mill on the books next year in order to absorb Love's contract.  Martin and/or Barea are likely headed to a third team able to absorb their contracts if they are involved.  Philly still has a way's to go in achieving minimum roster salary rules, so the rumblings of their involvement as a third team are expected.

 

^^Wiggins plus the stiffs plus two picks won't get it done even if Minny would accept that.  We still have to match salaries.  Wiggins plus the stiffs only adds up to $8-9mill.  Throw in Bennett and his close to $6mill contract, and we would be within the rules of the CBA.  ESPN.com has a "trade machine" you can use to see whether a deal will work.

 

I'll go on the record now saying I want Love and am willing to give up any TWO of Wiggins, Bennett, TT, and Waiters to get him, plus a future pick or two.  I would hope it wouldn't be Bennett and TT or Wiggins and Waiters, especially not the latter because it would leave us terribly thin at the 2 guard.  If a third player from that group is involved, we better be getting back (in addition to Love) someone like Dieng or Brewer or one of Philly's young bigs. 

 

I could go with Bennett or TT, but definitely NOT Waiters.  I don't consider any of these guys stiffs btw; not even Bennett (who based on last year may be the closest to it...).  I'm sorry, I really like Love but I'm not going to gut my team to get him.  He's a great player, but he's not worth that much esp with his lousy D history... (remember, Wiggins' comes into the League at high defensive level, and you've got to balance the point differential btw he and Love with the amount of opponent points Wiggins keeps off the board vs. the points Love gives up).

 

If I had my druthers, I would ONLY trade guys not named Wiggins who I would fight to hold onto at all costs.  Yeah, I know Love puts us in a better position to win now (theoretically -- there are no guarantees and we still don't know how good Wiggins will be), BUT, I'd rather hang on to Wiggins and watch him play/grow with LeBron this season.  He's raw but obviously has shown his amazing gifts, and you know he's going to contribute and grow under both LeBron's and Kyrie's tutelage... Then if we still need that PIECE, we go get it at the trading deadline in February.  Wiggins rookie contract gives you that flexibility that Love's max contract does not.  And with the dream lineup we will already have in place, I think getting either the the right player or his asking price will be insurmountable.  (as I'm sure you notice, CLEVELAND is no longer the ugly duckling for free agents; but now Miami has been struggling to land high-caliber free agents -- love (no pun intended) having the shoe on the other foot for a change) ... Remember, while this final piece needs to be good, he need not be Kevin Love.  And actually, if the T-Wolves haven't moved Love by then, his asking price will go down... I just don't believe in throwing the kitchen sink at Minnesota by completely mortgaging our future, esp when it's pretty clear the only team the Cavs are bidding against... is the Cavs.

 

... then again, by all accounts The King is driving this bus, so I guess ... 

The 'stiffs' we are talking about are the three no-names we got from Utah, not any of wiggins, waiters, Thompson, or Bennett.

 

Love is not great defensively, but he is not as bad as people make it seem. There has been some analytical studies done recently which refute the general perception.

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2014/7/24/5931549/kevin-love-trade-rumors-golden-state-warriors-klay-thompson

 

 

To be clear, Wiggins comes in with high defensive potential..... Not at a high defensive level. He has proven nothing and his one year in college did not come with any defensive accolades you would expect from a player who is 'NBA ready' on the defensive end.  The potential is undeniable.  But it is also undeniable that Isaiah Canaan lit him up for 28pts, including a drive to the well to seal the deal, in the Cavs' final summer league game.  Yep, Isaiah Canaan.  Who?  (I was asking myself that too).

 

The way I'm looking at Wiggins is 'house money'. He was a bonus and is not likely to be in the regular rotation this season anyway.  For that reason, you can't really do any comparison of what KLove (who will play regular minutes from the start) will give us if we trade for him vs. what Wiggins (who will not start over LBJ at the 3 and is in no way ready for the 2) will give us if he stays.

 

^But if Wiggins is off the table, you understand that Waiters (in all likelihood) has to be included?  When you take Wiggins off the table, you also take his $5.5 mill in salary off the table.

 

Yeah, and I'm okay with that. I know there has been a lot of bullish talk around town about Waiters lately, and I think he has the potential to turn into a good player someday, but I think Wiggins' ceiling is higher. And I would love to see how he develops alongside James.

The 'stiffs' we are talking about are the three no-names we got from Utah, not any of wiggins, waiters, Thompson, or Bennett.

 

 

Sorry, I misunderstood

I'm probably higher on Waiters than most (and certainly not as high on Wiggins as most are), but I think Dion is already a really good player.  So does Team USA, which picked him to be on its "Select" roster this summer.  He proved a lot to me last season when Kyrie went down and he took the reigns.  His numbers, as the #1 option, were actually better than Kyrie's iirc, averaging somewhere around 22ppg, and we went on a 5-6 game winning streak.  For sure, he needs to be smarter with his shot selection and better at finishing around the rim, but he has a good shot (imagine how many open looks he will get with our new Big 3 playing around him), he has good-to-great handles, one of the most explosive first steps in the league (no one can stay in front of him), gives good effort on D (technique needs some work and his size imposes some limitations), and is a 'bulldog' type competitor.  He can initiate the offense and break down defenses while Kyrie and/or LBJ rest, or with them on the floor if the matchups favor letting him do so.  He brings a certain toughness to this team which Wiggins can not provide, and probably never will.  He doesn't back down from anybody and plays with a chip on his shoulder.  He's certainly not one of those "give me 12 of him" type players, but I think the Cavs desperately need at least one player like him, especially if none of your Big 3 are particularly known for being tough guys.  We don't have a Ben Wallace on this team anymore.  We are going to need a "never back down" guy or teams will try to bully us.

I think a trade has been agreed to in principle that includes Andrew Wiggins....

 

Wiggins jerseys are discontinued http://t.co/hvz8C0IzNQ

 

To be clear, Wiggins comes in with high defensive potential..... Not at a high defensive level. He has proven nothing and his one year in college did not come with any defensive accolades you would expect from a player who is 'NBA ready' on the defensive end. 

 

That's not true.  We can quibble semantics for days and, yes, he hasn't played in the NBA yet so he's not proven.  But let's not be ridiculous and say he comes with no 'defensive accolades' because he absolutely does and was touted as a strong D player by every credible college scout you can cite.  And not only is he that rare rookie who desires to be a top defender, the sampling of the Summer League play shows Wiggins’ considerable D prowess: notably the chase-down block as well as blocking 6’11” Nerlens Noel near the hoop.  There were also several face-ups with the ball handler as well as on-ball disruptions, knock-away's and steals... You can poo-poo it as Summer League all you want, but there's no doubt and most people's minds: Wiggins will come into the League as a good defender with the potential (and mindset and bloodline) of being a stellar one.  And there's also no doubt, that Kevin Love's defense is very weak.

 

I realize many fans are very attached to Wiggins.  It's a Cleveland thing, in a way.  We love 'potential' and draft picks.  But nothing I said was ridiculous.  I never denied Wiggins' potential and he did show well at times on that end during summer league.  He can impact a game without scoring.  But he is also very raw, especially on offense, but also on defense.  Re-read my response again.  I posted analysis refuting the common fan's belief about KLove's defense being "very weak".  It's not stellar.  No arguing that.  But it is not "very weak" just because you say it's so.  Again, re-read (and try to fully comprehend) my post and then refer to this.....

 

ac·co·lade - an award or privilege granted as a special honor or as an acknowledgment of merit.

 

DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR

Joel Embiid, Kansas, C, 7-0, 250, Fr., Yaounde, Cameroon/The Rock School [Fla.]

 

Big 12 All-Defensive Team Pos. Ht. Wt. Cl. Hometown/Previous School(s)

Isaiah Austin, Baylor C 7-1 225 So. Arlington, Texas/Grace Preparatory Academy

Joel Embiid, Kansas** C 7-0 250 Fr. Yaounde, Cameroon/The Rock School [Fla.]

Marcus Smart, Oklahoma State** G 6-4 220 So. Flower Mound, Texas/Marcus

Demarcus Holland, Texas G 6-2 185 So. Garland, Texas/Naaman Forest

Cameron Ridley, Texas C 6-9 285 So. Richmond, Texas/Bush

Juwan Staten, West Virginia G 6-1 190 Jr. Dayton, Ohio/Oak Hill Academy/Dayton

 

I'm probably higher on Waiters than most (and certainly not as high on Wiggins as most are), but I think Dion is already a really good player.  So does Team USA, which picked him to be on its "Select" roster this summer.  He proved a lot to me last season when Kyrie went down and he took the reigns.  His numbers, as the #1 option, were actually better than Kyrie's iirc, averaging somewhere around 22ppg, and we went on a 5-6 game winning streak.  For sure, he needs to be smarter with his shot selection and better at finishing around the rim, but he has a good shot (imagine how many open looks he will get with our new Big 3 playing around him), he has good-to-great handles, one of the most explosive first steps in the league (no one can stay in front of him), gives good effort on D (technique needs some work and his size imposes some limitations), and is a 'bulldog' type competitor.

Waiters is my favorite player, and I think he's vastly underrated, probably influenced by perceived attitude issues. I have yet to see numbers that show me he's any less of a player than Bradley Beal, a player many in the national media tout as a future star.

I'm probably higher on Waiters than most (and certainly not as high on Wiggins as most are), but I think Dion is already a really good player.  So does Team USA, which picked him to be on its "Select" roster this summer.  He proved a lot to me last season when Kyrie went down and he took the reigns.  His numbers, as the #1 option, were actually better than Kyrie's iirc, averaging somewhere around 22ppg, and we went on a 5-6 game winning streak.  For sure, he needs to be smarter with his shot selection and better at finishing around the rim, but he has a good shot (imagine how many open looks he will get with our new Big 3 playing around him), he has good-to-great handles, one of the most explosive first steps in the league (no one can stay in front of him), gives good effort on D (technique needs some work and his size imposes some limitations), and is a 'bulldog' type competitor.

Waiters is my favorite player, and I think he's vastly underrated, probably influenced by perceived attitude issues. I have yet to see numbers that show me he's any less of a player than Bradley Beal, a player many in the national media tout as a future star.

 

Dion certainly had some "WOW" moments on the court this year.

I realize many fans are very attached to Wiggins.  It's a Cleveland thing, in a way.  We love 'potential' and draft picks.

 

No Hts, I'm not wrapped up in "potential," ... I want to win now.  I just fear that people are going to get their hearts broken if they throw everything into this K.Love “win now or else basket,” because if we achieve anything less than a championship it will be deemed a failure. 

 

And it's not as easy as waving a magic K Love wand and producing a trophy.  Winning titles is difficult and requires a degree of luck, especially as stacked as some NBA teams are, most notably in the West. It took the Big 3 2 years to win a championship, and win it during a weird, strike-shortened year where teams were playing 3-games in a row to rush through a 62 (or so) game schedule.  (and fortunately for Miami, the Super Friends were under contract and guaranteed to return the next season …  And we all know, Miami should have lost to SA 2 years ago but for some serious choking by Leonard, Duncan and Popovich, as well as some seriously ineffective play by the partially banged up Manu Ginobli …

 

I fear here that if we go the KLove route and don’t win next year, things could fall apart quickly – just look at Miami this past year as an example… a lesser example is OKC after Miami beat them 3 years ago when hugely talented James Harden decided to split for Houston (and how has that worked out for Harden?) substantially weakening that stacked OKC team lead by KD and Westbrook – and note, OKC hasn’t returned to the finals since (and now KD too is talking about leaving when his contract is up in 2015) thus indicating the window is probably closed on OKC’s brief flirtation with the top (note: Oklahoma City like Cleveland is a “small market” team that has less going on for it than Cleveland, as city life goes) … Love’s contract expires at the end of this season – yeah sure, he can say nice things about wanting to come back, but if this all-or-nothing crap shoot we’re planning doesn’t work out, who’s to say, like teams in the past, that a team hangover/depression doesn’t ensue, with guys wanting out… Love’s verbal commitment beyond next year is worth the paper it’s written on.  We obviously have the Carlos Boozer precedent we should have learned from (apparently not for most Cleveland fans and media)…  And don’t forget, LeBron himself has an opt-out clause after this season, too.

 

The history of sports, esp In recent times, have shown that a season’s most negative impact falls on the 2nd runner up (or as the saying goes: the 2nd best team is THE FIRST LOSER).

 

Yes Wiggins has high potential but is yet unproven in the NBA.  But we DO KNOW he’s highly touted, with a ton of raw skills (including D skills) and would come into the League under the wings of the best player on the planet as well as  one of the rising top point guards, in Kyrie.  Not to mention other pieces like Dion Waiters, bulldog Delly off the bench and a highly productive, if not fancy, Tristan Thompson…. And yes, an improved Anthony Bennett, who possesses a big body with long arms, leaping ability who can both crush dunks and shoot outside (when he’s hot)… All these young guys who showed promise on last year’s sinking ship under a very bad coach, can now shine because the pressure is off them now and they can grow… WE’VE GOT THE KING… Throw in a vet like Mike Miller and probably Ray Allen, both of whom can still stick the ball from deep, and you have a pretty formidable roster I’d say.

 

And as I keep pointing out, and you refuse to acknowledge, Wiggins’ rookie contract (and Bennett’s and Waiters’) gives the Cavs FLEXIBILITY to go out and sign that missing piece in February should we need it.  With the 3 max contracts of the Love scenario, heaven help us if we suffer a major injury --- remember fragile Kyrie Irving? ... Hello!!

And as I keep pointing out, and you refuse to acknowledge, Wiggins’ rookie contract (and Bennett’s and Waiters’) gives the Cavs FLEXIBILITY to go out and sign that missing piece in February should we need it.  With the 3 max contracts of the Love scenario, heaven help us if we suffer a major injury --- remember fragile Kyrie Irving? ... Hello!!

 

If Kyrie goes down (God forbid) we're going to need a proven scorer to take some of the pressure off of LeBron. That's Kevin Love. Nobody else on the roster is a consistent scorer.

Harden did not decide to split for Houston.  OKC did not want 3 max players, so it traded him.  Harden welcomed the opportunity to become a #1 option, but he would've stayed in OKC if they had ponied up the $$.

 

I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything.  Show me how we have the "FLEXIBILITY to go out and sign that missing piece in February".  We are capped out.  Regardless..... February?  At the trade deadline?  Which free agent is going to be out there for us to sign in the middle of the season?  If you mean it gives us the flexibility to make a trade for a different player at the deadline should the Love deal fall apart, that is absolutely true.  I never denied that.  It won't be Love and I don't know of any equivalent superstar who is known to be available.  But there will always be a market for young talent and they could get something of value in return if a shakeup is necessary. 

 

I won't be all that disappointed if they hold firm and don't make the deal.  I would do it, but I don't feel nearly as strong as some of the Wiggins fans apparently do.  I just see an opportunity to acquire one of the best 'established' players in the game who is only 25 yrs old.  You might not agree with that assessment of his skill level, but most experts do.  To get him, we have to give up a prospect, who might someday, but certainly not this year and probably not for several years, develop into one of the best players in the game.  It's a roll of the dice, and I'm the first to admit that a championship in year 1 is not guaranteed.  Miami's Big 3 didn't do it.  But Boston's Big 3 did, so it's far from impossible.

 

As far as KLove skipping town after one year, I see that possibility as about equal to Wiggins suffering some career devastating injury.  I can't rule out the risk, but as I've said before it is something which I have to the think the Cavs will calculate heavily into any decision made

 

http://www.nba.com/magic/cohen-8-ball-ranking-2013-14-best-power-forwards

http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/sports/nba/2013/10/23/15-best-power-forwards-in-the-nba-for-2013-14-season/3173595/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/13/nba-power-forwards-2014_n_4780985.html

 

 

ESPN - Hollinger Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Power Forwards

RK  PLAYER                        GP  MPG  TS%  AST  TO  USG    ORR  DRR  REBR  PER    VA    EWA

1    Kevin Love, MIN            77  36.3  .591  15.2  8.7  27.7    8.5  29.5  18.7  26.97  645.8  21.5

2    Anthony Davis, NO        67  35.2  .582  7.4  7.7  23.2  10.0  23.3  16.6  26.54  529.3  17.6

3    Blake Griffin, LAC          80  35.8  .583  14.1 10.2  27.1    7.7  21.2  14.7  23.98  533.3  17.8

4    Dirk Nowitzki, DAL        80  32.9  .603  12.2  6.6  24.9    1.8  20.0  10.9  23.68  477.7  15.9

5    Brandan Wright, DAL    58  18.6  .695    7.0  7.9  15.8  11.0  15.1  13.1  23.60  194.5  6.5

6    LaMarcus Aldridge, POR 69  36.2  .507    9.5  6.5  27.9    7.2  25.6  16.5  21.84  385.7  12.9

7    Tim Duncan, SA            74  29.2  .535  15.4  11.2  23.5    8.6  28.3  18.8  21.40  318.8  10.6

8    Kenneth Faried, DEN    80  27.2  .573    8.1  11.4  19.7  11.8  22.2  16.9  19.90  273.1  9.1

9    Paul Millsap, ATL          74  33.5  .545  14.2  11.3  23.7    7.2  21.9  14.6  19.83  308.4  10.3

10  Serge Ibaka, OKC          81  32.9 .576    6.7  9.7  18.0  10.0  19.6  15.0  19.66  324.8  10.8

 

 

Surf - agreed, but what often gets lost in KLove's value as a scorer is that guy might be the best rebounder in the league and certainly most would say he is unquestionably the best passing big man in the game.  He is one of the limited basketball 'savants' playing today.... LeBron being one of the others.

 

His ability to pull down a defensive rebounder and then send an outlet pass down the floor is ridiculous.

 

Harden did not decide to split for Houston.  OKC did not want 3 max players, so it traded him.  Harden welcomed the opportunity to become a #1 option, but he would've stayed in OKC if they had ponied up the $$.

 

I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything.  Show me how we have the "FLEXIBILITY to go out and sign that missing piece in February".  We are capped out.  Regardless..... February?  At the trade deadline?  Which free agent is going to be out there for us to sign in the middle of the season?  If you mean it gives us the flexibility to make a trade for a different player at the deadline should the Love deal fall apart, that is absolutely true.  I never denied that.  It won't be Love and I don't know of any equivalent superstar who is known to be available.  But there will always be a market for young talent and they could get something of value in return if a shakeup is necessary. 

 

I won't be all that disappointed if they hold firm and don't make the deal.  I would do it, but I don't feel nearly as strong as some of the Wiggins fans apparently do.  I just see an opportunity to acquire one of the best 'established' players in the game who is only 25 yrs old.  You might not agree with that assessment of his skill level, but most experts do.  To get him, we have to give up a prospect, who might someday, but certainly not this year and probably not for several years, develop into one of the best players in the game.  It's a roll of the dice, and I'm the first to admit that a championship in year 1 is not guaranteed.  Miami's Big 3 didn't do it.  But Boston's Big 3 did, so it's far from impossible.

 

As far as KLove skipping town after one year, I see that possibility as about equal to Wiggins suffering some career devastating injury.  I can't rule out the risk, but as I've said before it is something which I have to the think the Cavs will calculate heavily into any decision made

 

http://www.nba.com/magic/cohen-8-ball-ranking-2013-14-best-power-forwards

http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/sports/nba/2013/10/23/15-best-power-forwards-in-the-nba-for-2013-14-season/3173595/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/13/nba-power-forwards-2014_n_4780985.html

 

 

- OKC didn’t just trade Harden, he demanded it when they asked him to take a salary hit while, also, having him come off the bench, which he obviously resented; see:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2031893-james-harden-admits-money-was-deciding-factor-in-leaving-okc-thunder

 

 

- I’ve never downgraded Kevin Love’s tremendous offensive and rebounding prowess; not to mention his superior passing ability as a big man. 

 

 

- Boston’s Big 3 won it all that first (and only) year largely because of superior coaching (Doc Rivers compared to Spolestra) and a little luck + underachievement by the Cavs; LeBron’s bad 1st game in that 7-Game series came back to haunt us.

 

 

- As to you Q: which free agent will be out there at the middle of the season?  My answer is: I/we don’t know.  But what I DO know is that, with a talented and growing Wiggins along with our known superstars in LeBron and Kyrie, that piece NEED NOT be a superstar/Kevin Love caliber player but, as I defined it:... a piece; a piece that will come a lot cheaper than a max star like KLove, obviously.  By February we would have a pretty clear understanding of what we've got as well as what we will need. 

 

can i give a. bennett a holla here? all you ever read is what a bust he is. wronggg! i must be his only fan.

^You must not read the thread regularly.  I will probably be more disappointed to see him go when the trade goes down (Aug. 23/24) than I will be for Wiggins.  Extremely high ceiling.  But, as we saw last year, a shockingly low floor.  I don't think he will be a very good player in the league until he has some age which he can hopefully parlay into some confidence.  He needs to play with he chest out and chin up, not chest in and chin down.

 

- OKC didnt just trade Harden, he demanded it when they asked him to take a salary hit while, also, having him come off the bench, which he obviously resented; see:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2031893-james-harden-admits-money-was-deciding-factor-in-leaving-okc-thunder

 

Now we are just splitting hairs.  OKC made an offer which was far below ($35 mill below, to be exact) his market value.  He declined the offer.  OKC was left with the choice of either trading him or losing him for nothing.  The point was that Harden would still be in OKC if they ponied up the cash.  Circling back to KLove, the Cavs have every intention of paying him his market value, so the comparisons to the Harden situation is pointless.

 

 

I’ve never downgraded Kevin Love’s tremendous offensive and rebounding prowess; not to mention his superior passing ability as a big man. 

 

I never said you did.  Surf = surfohio.  I was responding to him.

 

TWolves owner indicates Love trade will probably happen by 8/24.  Which would be the 30day mark since the signing of Wiggins. If the trade does not involve him then what would the delay be? So he's most likely gone. No denying Love is a difference maker, but losing Wiggins is a high price.  Prediction: Wiggins will be NBA rookie of the yr, and on the 1st or 2nd all defensive team.  And Bennett, if he is physically and emotionally ready will earn a starting position by mid-season.

It should be Wiggins and just Wiggins. Giving up anything more is too much IMO.