^I said when he was coming out that Luttrell Sprewell was his ceiling.  I stand by that.

 

And when I say he doesn't fit, I don't just mean on the court.  He won't fit in the locker room. 

Minny is getting a lot of play in the twitterverse because Kyrie supposedly listed them, along with Miami, SAS, and NYK, as his preferred destinations..... not that he has much say in where he goes.  He is good friends with Jimmy Butler and Karl Anthony Towns.  A few reasons why I don't see that happening.  Wiggins is due for an over-bloated contract.  Trading Kyrie for him would either this year or next, INCREASE the luxury tax bill Gilbert would have to pay.  The other reason is fit.  Wiggins doesn't fit..... and who would be your starting PG?

Yeah I really hope they don't trade for Wiggins. It's like nobody realizes he's not very good for some reason.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nba-haters-ball/

 

Say what!? :-o

 

^^^ Gilbert could care less about the luxury tax so long as the player puts us in a better chance to win a title.  Wiggins does this imho.  I would love such a trade.

^I said when he was coming out that Luttrell Sprewell was his ceiling.  I stand by that.

 

And when I say he doesn't fit, I don't just mean on the court.  He won't fit in the locker room. 

 

Obviously we don't see eye-to-eye about Wiggins' ceiling, but your locker room comment totally throws me.

^At his peak, Sprewell was a very good player.  He just wasn't a top 10 player and I don't think Wiggins will ever reach that status.  The awkwardness of his movements still persists.  He is lacking that smoothness in coordination you see from the top tier players.  His toughness also leaves something to be desired.  He gets by with size and speed/athleticism and a fairly decent motor, as well as good, but not great, skills.

 

As for the locker room comment, Wiggins is a weird kid.  He is very quirky. 

But I love the idea of bringing Delly back.  He gives us so much of what Kyrie did not and he is familiar with and to the coach and team.  No transition period for him.

 

He's not good. Even as a thrown in as part of a Kyrie trade for a superstar, I'd prefer maybe a bag of basketballs or some spare lightbulbs for the scoreboard.

^^^ Gilbert could care less about the luxury tax so long as the player puts us in a better chance to win a title.  Wiggins does this imho.  I would love such a trade.

 

Sadly I'm not convinced that Gilbert is all-in on winning anymore.

 

Though I'll agree with Hts here, Wiggins is not fair value for Irving unless there is some other very big piece involved.

They should ask Minnesota for KAT and thats not unreasonable.  Kyrie is a top 10 NBA talent who is literally one of the hardest guys to stop, best finishers and most clutch.  The T wovles would have to decides if Kyrie/Butler for 5 years is worth giving up KAT and thats not an unreasonable conversation to have

Wrong thread.  Deleted. 

^^^ Gilbert could care less about the luxury tax so long as the player puts us in a better chance to win a title.  Wiggins does this imho.  I would love such a trade.

 

Sadly I'm not convinced that Gilbert is all-in on winning anymore.

 

Though I'll agree with Hts here, Wiggins is not fair value for Irving unless there is some other very big piece involved.

 

I will agree only in that, right now, Kyrie is considerably further along in his development as a star than Wiggins.  But Wiggins has steadily been improving his game and is only 22.  Plus Kyrie, for the last 3 seasons, has had the luxury -- whether he ever appreciates it -- of having the space to develop into elite status next to one of the greatest players in the history of the game.  Wiggins has been on a crap/developing young team.  So I'm not understanding all the Wiggins hate I'm hearing on UO.  People are doting on Eric Bledsoe, who is certainly an upper echelon PG, but Wiggins shot the 3 even better than Bledsoe and nobody can deny that Wiggins' defense is considerably better than either Kyrie's or Bledsoe's.

 

And also consider the fact that, now because of Kyrie's sudden and shocking demand, the fact that LeBron hasn't committed beyond 2018 and the league-wide sense that Gilrbert is a dysfunctional owner, the Cavs would be dealing from a position of weakness and likely won't be able to land the likes of a DeMarcus Cousins or an Anthony Davis.  The Knicks now are suddenly interested in dealing us Carmelo Anthony for Kyrie, but they've said hands off in re Porzingis --  despite Kyrie's obvious greatness, we're not likely going to pry away a superstar, or budding superstar.  (I was much more excited about acquiring Melo through a buyout with understanding that Kyrie would be here -- trading Kyrie to get the 33-year-old Melo doesn't do much for me).  I'd love to get Wiggins back in Cleveland.

^^^ Gilbert could care less about the luxury tax so long as the player puts us in a better chance to win a title.  Wiggins does this imho.  I would love such a trade.

 

Sadly I'm not convinced that Gilbert is all-in on winning anymore.

 

Though I'll agree with Hts here, Wiggins is not fair value for Irving unless there is some other very big piece involved.

 

I will agree only in that, right now, Kyrie is considerably further along in his development as a star than Wiggins.  But Wiggins has steadily been improving his game and is only 22.  Plus Kyrie, for the last 3 seasons, has had the luxury -- whether he ever appreciates it -- of having the space to develop into elite status next to one of the greatest players in the history of the game.  Wiggins has been on a crap/developing young team.  So I'm not understanding all the Wiggins hate I'm hearing on UO.  People are doting on Eric Bledsoe, who is certainly an upper echelon PG, but Wiggins shot the 3 even better than Bledsoe and nobody can deny that Wiggins' defense is considerably better than either Kyrie's or Bledsoe's.

 

 

Wiggins is probably a worse defender than Kyrie and definitely a worse defender than Bledsoe. Bledsoe is one of the best defensive guards in basketball and Wiggins was historically bad on defense last year and has regressed each of his 3 years in the league. I posted an article upthread that showed how Wiggins might be the worst defensive player in the league (-2.9 DBPM). He's also one-dimensional on offense, doesn't rebound, and doesn't move the ball. He had a PER of 16.5 (barely above-average) which was no better than the mark he posted in 2015.

Rose is signed.

^^^ Gilbert could care less about the luxury tax so long as the player puts us in a better chance to win a title.  Wiggins does this imho.  I would love such a trade.

 

Sadly I'm not convinced that Gilbert is all-in on winning anymore.

 

Though I'll agree with Hts here, Wiggins is not fair value for Irving unless there is some other very big piece involved.

 

I will agree only in that, right now, Kyrie is considerably further along in his development as a star than Wiggins.  But Wiggins has steadily been improving his game and is only 22.  Plus Kyrie, for the last 3 seasons, has had the luxury -- whether he ever appreciates it -- of having the space to develop into elite status next to one of the greatest players in the history of the game.  Wiggins has been on a crap/developing young team.  So I'm not understanding all the Wiggins hate I'm hearing on UO.  People are doting on Eric Bledsoe, who is certainly an upper echelon PG, but Wiggins shot the 3 even better than Bledsoe and nobody can deny that Wiggins' defense is considerably better than either Kyrie's or Bledsoe's.

 

 

Wiggins is probably a worse defender than Kyrie and definitely a worse defender than Bledsoe. Bledsoe is one of the best defensive guards in basketball and Wiggins was historically bad on defense last year and has regressed each of his 3 years in the league. I posted an article upthread that showed how Wiggins might be the worst defensive player in the league (-2.9 DBPM). He's also one-dimensional on offense, doesn't rebound, and doesn't move the ball. He had a PER of 16.5 (barely above-average) which was no better than the mark he posted in 2015.

 

I stand corrected.  I didn't realize Wiggins had devolved into being that bad on Defense.  Bledsoe is a nice player, but I might like a PG taller, not shorter, than Kyrie.

^That said, some of the articles I've read noted that Wiggins may not be as bad defensively as his numbers indicate -- though they aren't good... He was one of the better defensive college players coming out of Kansas.  Obviously NBA players are bigger, stronger and faster... I wouldn't give up on Andrew defensively... He's still only 22 and he's got the physical tools and length to develop defensively. 

^I think he is missing two key ingredients - toughness and lateral speed.  He isn't likely to gain either as he gets older.

^No question, he's got to live up to billing because the T-Wolves now have a playoff contending team, now, esp with Butler.  Lateral quickness you can't learn, but he can develop an edge, esp defensively and esp given his other physical tools... I never give up on promising youth.

D-Rose?? LOL  Dude shot 21.7% from 3 last year. 

D-Rose?? LOL  Dude shot 21.7% from 3 last year.

 

Ya that's not great. His advanced stats last year are remarkably similar to Wiggins'. His 3 point shooting was worse. But his rebounding and assists per 36 were both better. Both are horrible defenders. Not terrible as long as he's a bench player but why they picked someone up who's such a bad 3 shooter is puzzling.

D-Rose?? LOL  Dude shot 21.7% from 3 last year. 

 

Although last year was his worst from behind the arc, that's never been his game. They got him for $2.1 million, and at that price with his skillset, I definitely think he can play some quality minutes at PG off the bench. I like the move.

^Consider the price they got him for.  Who were they supposed to get/sign?  He's still a very good slasher, who can create his own shot.  We will need that once Kyrie is shipped off.  No telling what we will get for Kyrie, but at least now our hand is not forced to somehow land a PG in return.  I think putting D Rose back into a winning culture could give him a boost.  He has been relatively healthy the past two seasons and he can still put pressure on a defense.  I definitely want him to start over Calderon. 

 

The outlook on this signing may change if we do end up getting Bledsoe.  But, either way, it is not a bad signing.

 

BTW, 8 of the last 9 MVPs now play for either the Cavs or the Warriors.

I almost added a "but" to my post on Rose, and it was precisely that if the front office sees him as a starting point guard, I'm not in favor of that. There's a reason he only cost $2.1 million.

 

In regards to Irving, I've heard that Phoenix might be willing to part with Bledsoe and rookie Josh Jackson (he was fantastic in Dawson's Creek, btw), which is a deal I think I would take.

^I'd take that deal as well, especially if Phoenix, as rumored, is willing to throw in a future 1st round pick.

 

I almost added a "but" to my post on Rose, and it was precisely that if the front office sees him as a starting point guard, I'm not in favor of that. There's a reason he only cost $2.1 million.

 

He could've got more money elsewhere, but came here to be on a winner and try to re-establish himself as an elite player.  So he should be motivated.  He wants to get paid next summer.

 

Who do you see as a starting point guard?  (someone that we could've signed, obviously).  I don't understand this criticism because I don't know what better alternatives are out there for us.  Enlighten me.  And keep in mind that the starting PG on LeBron's team is really on a "point guard" in name only.

^I'd take that deal as well, especially if Phoenix, as rumored, is willing to throw in a future 1st round pick.

 

I just saw that a first round pick is part of the deal as well. I take that package in a heartbeat! Jackson is a well-rounded wing player with a ton of potential and Bledsoe, of course, is a solid point guard that could to a large degree replace Irving's production by himself. I wouldn't mind the Cavs considering T.J. Warren instead of Jackson as part of the deal.

 

Who do you see as a starting point guard?  (someone that we could've signed, obviously).  I don't understand this criticism because I don't know what better alternatives are out there for us.  Enlighten me.  And keep in mind that the starting PG on LeBron's team is really on a "point guard" in name only.

 

Kyrie Irving is the Cavaliers' point guard, and I believe they shouldn't trade him unless they get someone in return who is at least serviceable (and durable) at that position. If you're going to have someone in the point guard slot that isn't really going to be the primary ball-handler, they need to be able to shoot*. Rose cannot. However if he came off of the bench (particularly when James isn't on the floor), he could have more room to create for himself in the lane as he prefers to do.

 

*In fairness, Booker is only slightly better from beyond the arc than Rose, but still not someone you want shooting from that range on a regular basis.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kyrie-irving-reportedly-not-talking-anyone-cavaliers-organization-154309194.html

 

LOL Ok Kyrie.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kyrie-irving-reportedly-not-talking-anyone-cavaliers-organization-154309194.html

 

LOL Ok Kyrie.

 

I'm at the point of just giving up on following sports. And sports radio. It's all garbage when you really think about it.

From the article:

 

"It’s not entirely unheard of for a player to not keep in touch with his team’s front office over the summer, especially if he’s abroad".

I want Koby Altman to practice patience.  There is no rush to trade Kyrie.  The right deal WILL come around.  Kyrie's value is too high for that not to happen.  The only way he f's this up is if he jumps at one of the early low ball offers.  I want something comparable to what Denver got in the Melo package..... Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Felton, 1st rounder, and two 2nd rounders.  I'd tell teams to not bother calling unless they are offering something comparable to that. 

 

Speaking of Denver, I like the type of package they can put together.  Murray, Harris, Chandler and picks.  I've always like Chandler.  He does just about everything well.  Murray and Harris are potentially your backcourt of the future.  The picks can be used on draft night or in trades for other assets. 

Who besides Kyrie would you give up to make that deal? We don't have the roster spots for that many guys in return, so there'd have to be some throw-in players to make it work.

Shump, Felder and Frye are the players most likely to be included from our end in any package deal

 

^At this point, what team would really want Felder even though I like the kid?  He's undersized and still developing.

His salary would be used to make the numbers match

Wow. What a mess this has turned into. Kyrie mocking Lebron with Curry is so bizarre. Kyrie after the finals sounded like a guy who spent 3 years watching and learning leadership. Look at some of his quotes after the finals about the franchise, leadership and respecting the game, etc. a month later he is acting like a teenager. Unreal. Not that I care that much but it's surprising.  At this point you have to maximize his value to make the team better and that may be including Love in something.  I would certainly call Portland first and foremost. Lillard has made it clear he would LOVE to play in the finals every year. And Kyrie clearly cares about himself. That would be a quality swap as Lillard has a ton of heart and plays great defense as well. I would throw love if we could get McCullom too.  Having two guys who can shoot and create their own shot would certainly improve the team. Mccullom is from here and love is from there, so I don't think there would be too many long goodbyes.

 

Otherwise, if it's just Kyrie, have to get a haul. I hope he goes somewhere where he will sit at his teams podium at the lottery each year. See how well that does for his brand.  He won't know how great he has it with Lebron til he's struggling to get An 8 seed each year

I hope he goes somewhere where he will sit at his teams podium at the lottery each year. See how well that does for his brand.  He won't know how great he has it with Lebron til he's struggling to get An 8 seed each year

 

Sending him out West to Phoenix or Portland would do the trick. An Irving/Love trade for Lillard/McCullom would be fine by me, but it would bloat the Cavs' payroll significantly. However both are signed into the early 2020s.

Kylie's behavior has been reminding me on something....

 

So let me get this straight..

 

Either Kyrie is sick of Lebron and wants his Junes open so he can hit the Jersey Shore...

 

or he is worried that Lebron will bolt and leave him on a team depleted of talent/poorly configured to play without Lebron, which means Kyrie would be the MAN on a team depleted of talent. So he's forcing a trade now, so he can go be the MAN onto a team that will be depleted of talent because they traded it to get him? HUH?

So let me get this straight..

 

Either Kyrie is sick of Lebron and wants his Junes open so he can hit the Jersey Shore...

 

or he is worried that Lebron will bolt and leave him on a team depleted of talent/poorly configured to play without Lebron, which means Kyrie would be the MAN on a team depleted of talent. So he's forcing a trade now, so he can go be the MAN onto a team that will be depleted of talent because they traded it to get him? HUH?

 

I've been saying for awhile I don't see LeBron going anywhere because of Savannah.  Kyrie maybe thought he was, and figured out he isn't.

 

Or it could be a simple personal spat.

So strange though. All the hugging and everything they've been through together, they can't talk it out? And Lebron was also noted as being "devastated " about the trade request, which doesn't necessarily suggest a mutual disdain

So strange though. All the hugging and everything they've been through together, they can't talk it out? And Lebron was also noted as being "devastated " about the trade request, which doesn't necessarily suggest a mutual disdain

Didn't have to be mutual. 

I think blindsided is probably the better descriptor.

I've been saying for awhile I don't see LeBron going anywhere because of Savannah.

 

I think I mentioned it here (or somewhere else), but with LeBron Jr. being a year or two away from high school, I believe LeBron will want him to attend St. Vincent-St. Mary and be close enough to attend his games.

^ totally agree, although i could see him going to los angeles after little bron finishes hs for his last go round and then signing with the cavs and retiring at the end. just because he has empire building business out there.

 

if lebron is as truly blindsided by this news as much the basketball world is that is most troubling.

 

i have a co-worker in the bronx who is pretty good friends with kyrie, he plays ball with him regularly and hangs out a little, maybe i can get a bit of insider info out of him.

 

 

I've been saying for awhile I don't see LeBron going anywhere because of Savannah.

 

I think I mentioned it here (or somewhere else), but with LeBron Jr. being a year or two away from high school, I believe LeBron will want him to attend St. Vincent-St. Mary and be close enough to attend his games.

 

Truth.  I believe Dru Joyce is still head coach there.

 

Also, Savannah refused to move the kids.  Her and LeBron were somewhat on the outs when he decided to head south, but that changed, they got married, and she was tweeting "330" within minutes of the Heat losing the 2014 finals.

Pretty impressive video on the new uniforms:

 

^ It's ironic they feature both Kyrie and the slogan "One for All" in the video.

^Would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall during the meeting in which they debated whether to include Kyrie in that video.

stay or go again?

 

http://www.christianpost.com/amp/nba-trade-rumors-2017-is-lebron-james-leaving-cleveland-or-not-195987/

^I suspect that the question has preserved quite a few NBA reporters' jobs.  Need clicks?  Write a story about LeBron relocating.  Instant gold mine.

^ we'll have to wait and see if he rips his jersey off in the hallway again on april 11th.

Cavaliers, Celtics agree on deal for Kyrie Irving and Isaiah Thomas

 

By Joe Vardon, Cleveland.com jvardonCleveland[/member].com

 

CLEVELAND -- The Cavaliers and Celtics agreed on a trade to send four-time All-Star Kyrie Irving to rival Boston for two-time All-Star Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, and a No. 1 draft pick next summer.

 

Imagine that. Irving would still open the 2017-18 season in Cleveland. The Cavs and Celtics play the first game of the NBA's schedule at The Q on Oct. 17.

 

Think fans will remind him he asked out of Cleveland?

 

The Cavs acted on Irving's July request to move him, two years before he hits free agency, so he can escape LeBron James' shadow, by netting a significant return that includes not only the NBA's third-leading scorer in Thomas but two players and Brooklyn's No. 1 pick in 2018.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/08/cavaliers_celtics_in_discussio.html#incart_2box

The ABJ is reporting that the Cavs are shipping Kyrie off to Beantown for Isiah, Crowder, a big man, and the Nets 1st round pick. Seems line a good deal to me.

I like the deal. And as much as Kyrie turned out to be a putz, I will always remember him for making that killer shot in the 2016 finals. He helped make it one of the best nights of my life.