I hope that isn't an omen for your pending marriage :)

 

The question really is will Gilbert cut his loses if the Cavs lose LeBron? No casino. No luxury tax team. Just some mediocre basketball team that could easily get lured away from the city.

 

Good gravy!  Don't forget the Q and Progressive Field being swallowed into the bowels of the earth in a massive but highly localized earthquake.

Can't a UO'er be allowed a day to wallow in self-pity?

 

Besides everybody knows the river bank that will give way, not an earthquake.

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports.  Literally no athletes want to come here.  The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves.  How long can a business last with no customers?  Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports. Literally no athletes want to come here. The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves. How long can a business last with no customers? Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

 

Don't believe the media when they say no athletes want to come here.  If you buy into that then there wouldn't be any teams outside of New York, LA, Chicago, Texas, Florida or Phoenix.

 

Players will go anywhere there is A) money and B) a chance to win.

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports. Literally no athletes want to come here. The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves. How long can a business last with no customers? Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

We heard the same thing when rumors of Mike Holmgren coming to Cleveland started.  Not only did Holmgren take the job, he bought a home and moved his family here.

Wouldn't it be crazy if we ended up on the flip side of the free agency frenzy. We lose Lebron but pick up two other high profile players....

Blog post from a great sportswiter (and former Clevelander)

 

One Last Bitter Moment

Posted: May 14th, 2010 | Filed under: Other Sports | 23 Comments »

 

 

The clock ticks down – 56 seconds … 55 seconds … 54 seconds — and Mike Brown waves his arms, and his players just stand there. They just bleeping stand there. You know they’re not going to win. I know they’re not going to win. Boston is beating Cleveland by nine, and that’s too much. There are no miracles left, not for this disappointing Cleveland team, not for this wooden version of LeBron James. They are not going to win, not tonight, I know that, everybody knows that. But they just stand there. They just bleeping stand there.

 

“MOVE OR SOMETHING!” I hear myself shout.

 

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/05/14/one-last-bitter-moment/

^ Trying to think who would fit with the players we currently have under contract.

 

Stoudamire and ...

If we lose lebron and Shaq.  We have an OK center stashed in Europe.  If we can pull another Jamison level player I think we'll be decent next year (even better if he's a PG).  Assuming we also get a coach.

People need to calm down.  Lebron's not going anywhere.  And with Shaq off the books for next year the cavs can afford to go out and get one high level free agent and another mid level guy.  The Cavs are going to be buyers this summer... not sellers.

All of these curses/gods/culture of losing hypotheses are ridiculous.  It's nothing more than an unfortunate coincidence that none of our sports teams have won anything in almost half a century.  We're not any more or less deserving than any other city.  No matter what we do, one day it will happen.  Go to sleep knowing that there's nothing you could have done to get the Cavs to win this year, and there's nothing you'll be able to do to get them to win next year.

 

I didn't mean it literally.....It was figuratively speaking and  I was trying to illustrate that this area places way too much emphasis on sports as defining who/what it is all about---And if they're bad, we end up all feeling crummy, that the world is ending...that our city is worthless, etc... and feel like we can never be anything else. This attitude DOES exist and its very dysfunctional.

 

My post also offered choices to test where the priorities of people are, and if it is sports they chose, then it just proves my point. If we're relying on this stuff this much to be a major part of defining who we are, then we're just setting ourselves up to be condemned to a lifetime of misery. Time to get a new gig. And I say this as someone who was and still is, in a sense a die hard Cleveland sports fan, but realize it is not the only element that we need to be building all our happiness and city around.

 

Personally, I would rather be a cutting edge (in the items I mentioned in my original post) city in other ways, than have a championship. That is all second priority. If the whole of the city's success rides on whether a given sports team is doing well or LeBron stays... I say that is scary as hell, because it is setting a place up for eventual failure. Diversity breeds stability.

 

I know this is slaughtering a sacred cow, but it needs to be done....and after it was clear this team quit on a city...and a coaching effort that was terrible, now is he time to look beyond. We can be "champions" in so many other ways!

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports.  Literally no athletes want to come here.  The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves.  How long can a business last with no customers?  Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

 

How can you make a statement like that?  Please show me some facts!

 

The Gund wasn't empty before LeBron and it wont be empty after.

 

This down and out "Woe is me" BS has got to stop!

 

An that warm climate comment is the most ignorant!

 

 

^ Woah! I agree!!!

People need to calm down. Lebron's not going anywhere. And with Shaq off the books for next year the cavs can afford to go out and get one high level free agent and another mid level guy. The Cavs are going to be buyers this summer... not sellers.

The Cavs will be over the salary cap even if they don't sign Shaq or LeBron.  The only way they could acquire a player is through a sign and trade.  The best option available to the team is re-signing both players, since they own both players' Bird rights.

"At first I was afraid I was petrified..... Thinking I could no longer live without you by my side..."

 

Good words of advice by Gloria Gaynor!

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports. Literally no athletes want to come here. The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves. How long can a business last with no customers? Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

Attendance will certainly be damaged if LeBron leaves.  But let's burst the attendance bubble right off the rip.  In the last 20 years the Cavs have only finished at the bottom of the table in attendance once.  Any guesses?  The year they purposely tanked to get LeBron.  Through the post-Nance Mike Fratello Randy Wittman years, the Cavs were generally smack in the middle of the pack for attendance.  Anybody remember those teams?  Awful basketball that Clevelanders happily payed to witness.  I would argue that Cleveland is generally a strong sports attending town, and Gilbert has put his roots a little to deep to be ditching town.

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports. Literally no athletes want to come here. The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves. How long can a business last with no customers? Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

 

How can you make a statement like that? Please show me some facts!

 

The Gund wasn't empty before LeBron and it wont be empty after.

 

This down and out "Woe is me" BS has got to stop!

 

An that warm climate comment is the most ignorant!

 

 

 

You know, y'all are getting to sound like your local paper which you are all to happy to accuse of negativity....

 

What if he leaves?  So what!  A committed ownership will go out and aquire new talent and maybe that talent won't be centered around one player.

 

the NBA is structured so that almost any team can make the play-offs.  Does it matter if you make the play-offs with the best record in the NBA or something less? I mean look at the result.  Boston did it with supposedly less talent. 

I'll probably feel different in a few days, but right now I'd be ok with LeBron leaving. He's proven himself to be the best regular season player, but this last week has said a lot to me about his character.

 

I'm upset right now. I may change my mind in a week and regret I said this. But I don't think I will.

 

It's crazy, I feel the same way, too.  I no longer see him as the best player in the game.  And as I was watching the press conference last night, I noticed that I no longer see him as a Cavalier, a Clevelander, one of us.

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports.  Literally no athletes want to come here.  The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves.  How long can a business last with no customers?  Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

 

How can you make a statement like that?  Please show me some facts!

 

The Gund wasn't empty before LeBron and it wont be empty after.

 

This down and out "Woe is me" BS has got to stop!

 

An that warm climate comment is the most ignorant!

 

 

 

Um.  The proof is in the pudding, bro.  Where are the big names that want to come here in baseball?  Football?  Basketball they came with Lebron here..and NO there WERENT people in the Gund before Lebron got here.  After the Price/Daugherty era, that place turned into an empty gym.  Show me athletes that voluntarily come here to play and you can proove me wrong.  And dont tell me Jamario Moon and Anthony Parker, they got millions to come be role players.  They werent getting that money anywhere else.  Other than trades, NO free agents come here.

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports.  Literally no athletes want to come here.  The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves.  How long can a business last with no customers?  Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

Attendance will certainly be damaged if LeBron leaves.  But let's burst the attendance bubble right off the rip.  In the last 20 years the Cavs have only finished at the bottom of the table in attendance once.  Any guesses?  The year they purposely tanked to get LeBron.  Through the post-Nance Mike Fratello Randy Wittman years, the Cavs were generally smack in the middle of the pack for attendance.  Anybody remember those teams?  Awful basketball that Clevelanders happily payed to witness.  I would argue that Cleveland is generally a strong sports attending town, and Gilbert has put his roots a little to deep to be ditching town.

 

Have you been to progressive field this year?  Its sad man.  I almost want to cry.  That will happen to the cavs as well.  This city supports the browns win or lose, but the indians and cavs when they win.

Coach Brown was fired

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/05/14/brown/index.html?eref=sihp

 

 

I'll probably feel different in a few days, but right now I'd be ok with LeBron leaving. He's proven himself to be the best regular season player, but this last week has said a lot to me about his character.

 

I'm upset right now. I may change my mind in a week and regret I said this. But I don't think I will.

 

It's crazy, I feel the same way, too.  I no longer see him as the best player in the game.  And as I was watching the press conference last night, I noticed that I no longer see him as a Cavalier, a Clevelander, one of us.

 

If he dosen't change his attitude when his team stuggles he's never going to win a title. It will not matter who he plays with or where he goes. Mark my words. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird and even Barkley never quit. That's what makes them great. I was fooled for six years thinking this man had heart, although his behavior at the end of the Orlando series last year was a hint of this BS that just happened.

 

He quit. Until he grows up, he's not going to win a damn title even if it's in New Jersey or Chicago.

Coach Brown was fired

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/05/14/brown/index.html?eref=sihp

 

 

 

I cannot believe they did this!  UGH!  I am so pissed right now on a personal and professional level!

 

:whip:  >:D 

 

Do I talk, just to hear myself?

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports.  Literally no athletes want to come here.  The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves.  How long can a business last with no customers?  Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

Attendance will certainly be damaged if LeBron leaves.  But let's burst the attendance bubble right off the rip.  In the last 20 years the Cavs have only finished at the bottom of the table in attendance once.  Any guesses?  The year they purposely tanked to get LeBron.  Through the post-Nance Mike Fratello Randy Wittman years, the Cavs were generally smack in the middle of the pack for attendance.  Anybody remember those teams?  Awful basketball that Clevelanders happily payed to witness.  I would argue that Cleveland is generally a strong sports attending town, and Gilbert has put his roots a little to deep to be ditching town.

 

Have you been to progressive field this year?  Its sad man.  I almost want to cry.  That will happen to the cavs as well.  This city supports the browns win or lose, but the indians and cavs when they win.

 

The city supports a winner, period.  When teams are horrible, games are sparsely attended, Browns included.  Last year I went to 3 Browns games.  The year before I went to 5.  Do you know how many tickets I paid for?  0.  None.  Because people were practically giving them away the Browns were so bad.  One of my co-workers couldn't even sell their browns tickets on e-bay last year starting at $0.99.  $1 for 2 tickets!!!  I turned them down for free.  While the games were sold out, the stadium was clearly never full.

 

Going back only 10 years is pretty restricting considering each franchise has undergone ownership changes during that time.  But free agents will come here if a) the team is winning and b) they pay them.  Take a look around the NFL...Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Indianapolis all get top level free agents b/c the team is good.  The organization is well run.  Those aren't marquee destinations like Miami, LA, or NY.  And how is that LA football team?  How horrible was that Miami football team until Parcells arrived?  (1-15 in case you forgot).  The Jets have been a weak club for years until this past year.

 

Baseball is an entirely different animal b/c of the economics of it, but the Indians had no trouble getting top level free agents when the team was good.  Robby Alomar.  David Justice.  Travis Fryman.  Juan Gonzalez.  Eddie Murray.  Jacobs sold the team and Dolan said "cut salary".  That was the end of that.  The Tigers seem to be doing well lately.  Or is Detroit a hot bed of activity that attracts top players like Miguel Cabrera?

 

The Cavs have been operating under a "win now" model since LeBron only signed a short term deal in his last free agent period.  That doesn't allow them the fortune of making moves designed for cap space purposes only, with no intent on immediately improving the team.  How bad was LA right after Shaq left?  They still had Kobe, but they made salary cap moves instead of basketball moves for a couple years to rebuild.  They were average at best in 2006/2007.  And suddenly, once they got pieces in place, they could make some trades to get Pau Gasol or sign Ron Artest.  How good has the Miami Heat been the last few years?  Doesn't everyone want to live it up on South Beach?  Why do the Clippers lose every year, year in and year out?  Don't they have LA going for them?  When was the last time the Knicks were good? 

 

Gilbert has changed the culture of the team to be a winning one.  Not a "I'm here to make money, I don't care how good the team is" one.  Hopefully Mike Holmgren will do the same things for the Browns.  Indians...well, baseball makes it tougher but less we forget it was only 3 years ago they were up 3-1 in the ALCS.

 

 

Coach Brown was fired

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/05/14/brown/index.html?eref=sihp

 

 

 

I cannot believe they did this! UGH! I am so pissed right now on a personal and professional level!

 

:whip:   >:D

 

Do I talk, just to hear myself?

 

Dan Gilbert is denying that Brown has been fired. He's giving a press conference right now.

Coach Brown was fired

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/05/14/brown/index.html?eref=sihp

 

 

 

I cannot believe they did this!  UGH!  I am so pissed right now on a personal and professional level!

 

:whip:    >:D 

 

Do I talk, just to hear myself?

 

Dan Gilbert is denying that Brown has been fired. He's giving a press conference right now.

 

Woodson was fired!  I hate to be a b*tch, but they know how I get when Cleveland information goes out wrong!

Do coaches salaries figure into the salary cap, or can you pay them whatever you want?

Do coaches salaries figure into the salary cap, or can you pay them whatever you want?

 

No. PS.  Don't you love google?  ;)

coach brown was not fired... but i'll be shocked if he isn't at the end of gilberts 7-10 day evaluation period.

coach brown was not fired... but i'll be shocked if he isn't at the end of gilberts 7-10 day evaluation period.

 

You and me both.  And Mo Williams thrown out with him!

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports. Literally no athletes want to come here. The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves. How long can a business last with no customers? Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

Attendance will certainly be damaged if LeBron leaves. But let's burst the attendance bubble right off the rip. In the last 20 years the Cavs have only finished at the bottom of the table in attendance once. Any guesses? The year they purposely tanked to get LeBron. Through the post-Nance Mike Fratello Randy Wittman years, the Cavs were generally smack in the middle of the pack for attendance. Anybody remember those teams? Awful basketball that Clevelanders happily payed to witness. I would argue that Cleveland is generally a strong sports attending town, and Gilbert has put his roots a little to deep to be ditching town.

 

Have you been to progressive field this year? Its sad man. I almost want to cry. That will happen to the cavs as well. This city supports the browns win or lose, but the indians and cavs when they win.

 

The city supports a winner, period. When teams are horrible, games are sparsely attended, Browns included. Last year I went to 3 Browns games. The year before I went to 5. Do you know how many tickets I paid for? 0. None. Because people were practically giving them away the Browns were so bad. One of my co-workers couldn't even sell their browns tickets on e-bay last year starting at $0.99. $1 for 2 tickets!!! I turned them down for free. While the games were sold out, the stadium was clearly never full.

 

Going back only 10 years is pretty restricting considering each franchise has undergone ownership changes during that time. But free agents will come here if a) the team is winning and b) they pay them. Take a look around the NFL...Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Indianapolis all get top level free agents b/c the team is good. The organization is well run. Those aren't marquee destinations like Miami, LA, or NY. And how is that LA football team? How horrible was that Miami football team until Parcells arrived? (1-15 in case you forgot). The Jets have been a weak club for years until this past year.

 

Baseball is an entirely different animal b/c of the economics of it, but the Indians had no trouble getting top level free agents when the team was good. Robby Alomar. David Justice. Travis Fryman. Juan Gonzalez. Eddie Murray. Jacobs sold the team and Dolan said "cut salary". That was the end of that. The Tigers seem to be doing well lately. Or is Detroit a hot bed of activity that attracts top players like Miguel Cabrera?

 

The Cavs have been operating under a "win now" model since LeBron only signed a short term deal in his last free agent period. That doesn't allow them the fortune of making moves designed for cap space purposes only, with no intent on immediately improving the team. How bad was LA right after Shaq left? They still had Kobe, but they made salary cap moves instead of basketball moves for a couple years to rebuild. They were average at best in 2006/2007. And suddenly, once they got pieces in place, they could make some trades to get Pau Gasol or sign Ron Artest. How good has the Miami Heat been the last few years? Doesn't everyone want to live it up on South Beach? Why do the Clippers lose every year, year in and year out? Don't they have LA going for them? When was the last time the Knicks were good?

 

Gilbert has changed the culture of the team to be a winning one. Not a "I'm here to make money, I don't care how good the team is" one. Hopefully Mike Holmgren will do the same things for the Browns. Indians...well, baseball makes it tougher but less we forget it was only 3 years ago they were up 3-1 in the ALCS.

 

 

 

so true.  the gibert press confrence was great.  and he did say that "all these people already claiming doom and gloom and that the franchise will be gone in five years are utterly absurd.  I will do whatever it takes to win."

 

one correction... dolan didn't say "cut salary" he actually continued to add salary and has the 4 highest payrolls in team history. When that team had the end of its run, he cut salary to rebuild, again increased salary until it was time to break up what was the single most underperforming team in Indians history (honestly, an 80+ m payroll team that was one of the worst teams in baseball 2 straight years). So again cut salary to rebuild.  It isn't that dolan is "cheap", it's just that baseball is a broken and messed up sport.  He's no more or less cheap than essentially any other owner in mlb, he (like pretty much all other owners save 10-12 in the top markets) doesn't have the revenue stream to attract the top players.  Dick Jacobs was an absolute genius for seeing how the revenue economics were rapidly changing and getting out of the game.  That being said, it'd sure be nice to see a gilbertesque owner take a shot at those revenue economics and see if they could spend their way out of it.  alas, that is really a conversation for the indians thread.

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/05/14/one-last-bitter-moment/

 

Not to relive last night but this pretty much sums it up the best. the countdown of the clock is a nice effect.

 

 

As far as Lebron possibly leaving, I admit that I am less confident in him staying than I have ever been.  However, I still don't believe it to be "likely"

 

I thought Jamal Mashburn made a great point last night - for Lebron to sign somewhere else, he FIRST has to divorce himself from Northeast Ohio.  He must divorce himself from the team and the fans.  He must decide to leave his family and friends (with the exception of the 'Horsemen' who will follow him whereever he goes).  He has never been put in this situation before so I honestly believe him when he says he does not know what he is going to do.  Most importantly though, he has to accept the fact that he will be leaving town as a failure.  He will be labeled a traitor and the same national media that is begging him to leave will pour it on when/if he does - turning his back on his home town, poor cleveland fans, no loyalty, no appreciation for the fact that Gilbert has spared no expense to give him everything he wants, etc.  It would be Boozer-gate x10.

 

Last night will be the worst you will hear from Lebron as far as inferences and innuendoes of him leaving.  He is a sore loser, for better or worse.  He is a "blamer."  Always has been.  It is always somebody else's fault and that is clearly how he felt last night.  He was angry and probably beyond frustrated.  Perhaps it was justified, but he also knows how poorly HIS performance in this series reflects on him and his legacy.  He is too prideful to not let that bother him.  So I was not suprised at all by the attitude we saw at his presser. 

 

I would argue that his failures in this postseason make it less likely that he leaves than what would have been the case if he was a FA last off season.  Last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, you couldn't point a finger at Lebron for any post-season failures.  This year, you definitely can... elbow or not.  This team was built to revolve around him being great.  He wasn't.  And he will NEVER live down Game 5.  Never.  Take that from somebody who was there and has never questioned Lebron's competitive edge.

 

So, he has a choice to make.  I have always said that if he goes somewhere else, it won't be for money or fame.  He already has that.  He will go somewhere because it will put him in a better situation to win a championship.  But where should he go is what I have to ask.  Chicago seems to be the flavor of the day... but I'm not so sure that is a good fit.  They have ONE quality big-man, no first round draft choice, and a PG who needs the ball in his hands to be effective and will command a max contract in a few years hampering the team's ability to sign a supporting cast.  The Knicks and Nets are garbage who need another few years of rebuilding to put a competitive team on the floor and there is no way Lebron is going to take the guest suite at Wade's house.

Do coaches salaries figure into the salary cap, or can you pay them whatever you want?

 

No. PS. Don't you love google? ;)

 

No it doesn't figure into the cap, or no you can't pay them whatever you want?  What did you search for in Google, I can't find any info on this?

Do coaches salaries figure into the salary cap, or can you pay them whatever you want?

 

No. PS.  Don't you love google?  ;)

 

No it doesn't figure into the cap, or no you can't pay them whatever you want?  What did you search for in Google, I can't find any info on this?

 

No it doesnt figure into the cap.  NBA Salary Cap.

People need to calm down.  Lebron's not going anywhere.  And with Shaq off the books for next year the cavs can afford to go out and get one high level free agent and another mid level guy.  The Cavs are going to be buyers this summer... not sellers.

The Cavs will be over the salary cap even if they don't sign Shaq or LeBron.  The only way they could acquire a player is through a sign and trade.  The best option available to the team is re-signing both players, since they own both players' Bird rights.

 

Not true, if they dont resign anyone they will be under the cap.  That means letting Z, Telfair, powe, and Jawad Williams walk, and Lebron and Shaq obviously.  So they could still make signings while losing Lebron and Shaq.  They don't just have to do sign and trades.

 

You know, y'all are getting to sound like your local paper which you are all to happy to accuse of negativity....

 

What if he leaves?  So what!  A committed ownership will go out and aquire new talent and maybe that talent won't be centered around one player.

 

the NBA is structured so that almost any team can make the play-offs.  Does it matter if you make the play-offs with the best record in the NBA or something less? I mean look at the result.  Boston did it with supposedly less talent.  

 

I agree. So what if Lebron leaves? Are we afraid they won't win a championship??

 

While I would rather have Lebron here, I'm not going to jump in front of a high-speed train if he leaves. It's not the end of the world.

 

You know, y'all are getting to sound like your local paper which you are all to happy to accuse of negativity....

 

What if he leaves?  So what!  A committed ownership will go out and aquire new talent and maybe that talent won't be centered around one player.

 

the NBA is structured so that almost any team can make the play-offs.  Does it matter if you make the play-offs with the best record in the NBA or something less? I mean look at the result.  Boston did it with supposedly less talent. 

 

I agree. So what if Lebron leaves? Are we afraid they won't win a championship??

 

While I would rather have Lebron here, I'm not going to jump in front of a high-speed train if he leaves. It's not the end of the world.

 

Nice tie-in!  LOL  Well steer clear of the Waterfront line, since HS wont be here for a while!  LMAO

People need to calm down. Lebron's not going anywhere. And with Shaq off the books for next year the cavs can afford to go out and get one high level free agent and another mid level guy. The Cavs are going to be buyers this summer... not sellers.

The Cavs will be over the salary cap even if they don't sign Shaq or LeBron. The only way they could acquire a player is through a sign and trade. The best option available to the team is re-signing both players, since they own both players' Bird rights.

 

Not true, if they dont resign anyone they will be under the cap. That means letting Z, Telfair, powe, and Jawad Williams walk, and Lebron and Shaq obviously. So they could still make signings while losing Lebron and Shaq. They don't just have to do sign and trades.

Yes, you are technically right.  If the Cavs released ALL of their team options and Bird rights for next year, they would be five million under the cap.  Good luck signing anybody except DeSagana Diop for five million.

People need to calm down.  Lebron's not going anywhere.  And with Shaq off the books for next year the cavs can afford to go out and get one high level free agent and another mid level guy.  The Cavs are going to be buyers this summer... not sellers.

The Cavs will be over the salary cap even if they don't sign Shaq or LeBron.  The only way they could acquire a player is through a sign and trade.  The best option available to the team is re-signing both players, since they own both players' Bird rights.

 

Not true, if they dont resign anyone they will be under the cap.  That means letting Z, Telfair, powe, and Jawad Williams walk, and Lebron and Shaq obviously.  So they could still make signings while losing Lebron and Shaq.  They don't just have to do sign and trades.

Yes, you are technically right.  If the Cavs released ALL of their team options and Bird rights for next year, they would be five million under the cap.  Good luck signing anybody except DeSagana Diop for five million.

 

Well the average salary in the NBA is 5 million.  And that would be 5 million a year.

Things are different now than they were even 10 years ago in sports. Literally no athletes want to come here. The Q will be empty if Lebron leaves. How long can a business last with no customers? Gilberts money can go far in a warm climate city.

 

How can you make a statement like that? Please show me some facts!

 

The Gund wasn't empty before LeBron and it wont be empty after.

 

This down and out "Woe is me" BS has got to stop!

 

An that warm climate comment is the most ignorant!

 

 

 

Um. The proof is in the pudding, bro. Where are the big names that want to come here in baseball? Football? Basketball they came with Lebron here..and NO there WERENT people in the Gund before Lebron got here. After the Price/Daugherty era, that place turned into an empty gym. Show me athletes that voluntarily come here to play and you can proove me wrong. And dont tell me Jamario Moon and Anthony Parker, they got millions to come be role players. They werent getting that money anywhere else. Other than trades, NO free agents come here.

I'm only going by what the numbers were.  When the Cavs lost 54 games in 2001, they were 16th in attendance.  The next year they were last, but they tanked the season on purpose.  All the years before LeBron, from Mark Price to John Lucas, the Cavs had poor attendance only twice.  Everybody just remembers that tanking year and forgets that the Cavs had pretty good attendance for such sh!tty teams.

LeBron’s heart, game belong in Ohio

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=dw-lebronfuture051410

 

VERY good read IMO.

Have you guys seen this? Maybe it's old to you...

 

http://www.break.com/index/we-are-lebron-video.html#id1837025

 

A music video parodying "We Are the World", featuring Cleveland celebs plus Sen. Brown and Gov. Strickland, aiming to keep LeBron James around.

*START RANT*

Can anyone here put together a lawsuit and threaten to sue ESPN? I'm not the biggest basketball fan but I am a Cleveland sports fan and will root for ALL OF our teams. But I'm flipping through the channels this morning and ESPN is at it again with the Cleveland sucks and our ENTIRE economy is linked to Lebron James spin. I don't know who the reporter was (if you can even call these clowns reporters), but in the segment he kept saying that if lebron leaves then there are many businesses downtown that could shut down because the entire cleveland economy will tank. Please ESPN f*ck off, I know you want lebron to leave cleveland but you dont have to shove it down the throats of those people who live and die by what you spit out at them, but give it up. Again, why do you have NFL Live talking about lebron james and what they think he should do? It's not just about Lebron James, but instead its about espn bashing cleveland and finding any reason to talk down on MY town, in hopes that lebron leaves cleveland and goes somewhere closer to their HQ. Who cares if he leaves, Cleveland was a great town before lebron was here and it will continue to be a great town after he leaves. 

*END*

^ It would probably help if the Governor weren't seen in a music video which claims LeBron is responsible for saving downtown. (See my post above yours.)

I think the Indians from 94 to 99 had a bigger impact on Cleveland then Lebron James has, and Cleveland is still here + some. 

*START RANT*

Can anyone here put together a lawsuit and threaten to sue ESPN? I'm not the biggest basketball fan but I am a Cleveland sports fan and will root for ALL OF our teams. But I'm flipping through the channels this morning and ESPN is at it again with the Cleveland sucks and our ENTIRE economy is linked to Lebron James spin. I don't know who the reporter was (if you can even call these clowns reporters), but in the segment he kept saying that if lebron leaves then there are many businesses downtown that could shut down because the entire cleveland economy will tank. Please ESPN f*ck off, I know you want lebron to leave cleveland but you dont have to shove it down the throats of those people who live and die by what you spit out at them, but give it up. Again, why do you have NFL Live talking about lebron james and what they think he should do? It's not just about Lebron James, but instead its about espn bashing cleveland and finding any reason to talk down on MY town, in hopes that lebron leaves cleveland and goes somewhere closer to their HQ. Who cares if he leaves, Cleveland was a great town before lebron was here and it will continue to be a great town after he leaves. 

*END*

 

I completely feel for what you're saying here and agree with it... There is one thing, however, that I am annoyed to admit, and it is the fact that people who feel the same as we do about this...the whole "our economy is linked to LeBron..bla..bla..bla" stuff... in that we know better..that we're a lot more than sports, seem to be, at least in the eyes of media, a minority. It is a truism that many people here in this area don't have a clue of what their city/region has to offer--and essentially, actually DO think that if the sports teams fail we fail.....

 

And in some cases as in downtown, many businesses would do less because we are currently building downtown too much around nightlife/fancy bar scenes that often do get a lot of piggy back business from the sports crowd. I want to see this change. Will we fall in a way ESPN makes it look? Of course not, but every legend has a basis of truth and this one is no exception.

 

And, this is exactly why we cannot and should not limit ourselves to making downtown just eateries/bars and such which often have many depending on the sports crowd. We need to promote more economic diversity that will breed the stability that will result in a scenario that if the sports teams are not doing well....who cares?...we have a lot of many other dimensions that pick up the pieces around here.

 

One example, there is not enough shopping in the core. Still, we do have plenty more going for us. You, me... and many others here already KNOW that we DO have a lot more going for us than the sports scene alone, BUT, at the same time, there are too many who are NOT aware of this fact, and these are the people's minds we need to change.

 

Mainstream media has not helped this cause as they have fostered and exacerbated the mentality that has ESPN spewing all this crap. But like I said, if we do not aggressively make downtown more than mostly a lot of sports oriented bars/restaurants/clubs... then we will simply secure that stereo type and economically typecast ourselves.

 

I have a ranting blog and funny you should bring this up, because I just wrote something about the idea that many think the whole world will collapse if our teams do. See www.qualitychatter.com

 

At the core, I agree with you and we need to work to change the attitudes that promote this idea. We are more than  a shot and a beer town and much of what we have is simply taken for granted.

 

I would write to ESPN... Not an email, but a real letter. Hopefully others will do the same because with all the passion/enthusiasm that is pro-Cleveland on this forum, it is a shame if it goes to waste if we preach to the choir.

 

LeBron saving downtown/Cleveland? This is absurd! There are hundreds of unsung heroes in this town doing a lot of things to make it better..promoting a lot, yet we never hail them as heroes. For instance, I would HATE to think what it would look like here if we didn't have all the great volunteers on River-sweep, on DCA Downtown Advocates program, block clubs, neighborhood associations, small independent unique businesses,  etc..etc.. All are working to improve quality of life in this city and make it more attractive. What has LeBron got to do with any of this positive stuff?

 

Point being, there are a lot here who contribute who never get the recognition. To me, these are the real saviors of a city, and hence why we need to look for heroes and championships in other forms. I would like James to stay, but I am not about to prostitute myself out to an athlete or bank on one to 'save us' That is just plain stupid and a testament to the fact we need to get the priorities right and broaden economic horizons. A city needs to be great even if no sports teams existed and I think we can.

EC:

 

LeBron leaving would not be a dagger in the heart to the regional economy.  It would, however, be at least a punch in the face.  While less lethal than a dagger in the heart, it is still something that one should try to avoid.

 

I agree that it's ridiculous to point to LeBron James as *the* pillar of the Cleveland economy.  However, it's equally ridiculous to say that he is not *a* pillar of it.  As you noted, there are many businesses in the downtown area whose business does involve snagging a lot of the sports crowds (not just the Cavs, but the Indians and Browns, too), and attendance really is higher with him there.  While that may not be year-round, it is a welcome boost to business in the colder months.

 

With respect to the larger point about economic diversification: Cleveland's economy is already a lot more diverse than you make it out to be.  Yes, there are businesses that are dependent on the sports and entertainment industry, just as there are businesses that have hitched their wagons to other industries as well.  (There are second-tier businesses that are dependent on the banking industry, on the legal industry, on the shipping industry, on the auto industry, you name it.)  The fact that we would "only" lose some of the businesses that are dependent on the sports crowd doesn't soften the blow all that much in my mind.

Dan Gilbert has done everything within his power to hand Lebron a winner.  Ferry has gotten the better of almost every trade he has made - even if he never found this so-called "Robin" to LBJ's "Batman.... which I am starting to think might not exist unless you reverse roles.  Brown did a good job with this team for awhile, but he obviously needs to go and Gilbert/Ferry will make that happen.

 

I just hope that Lebron is getting the proper advice.  The article I posted on the previous page summed it up real well.  However, I will add this - if he turns his back on Ohio and leaves, LBJ better be ready for the repurcusions.  That's right... all that dirty laundry, all those short-comings, and all those "locker room secrets" are going to come pouring out once we decide to remove that bubble we have constructed around his life.  We protected and sheltered him, we dared not offend/question him, and we pushed aside any possible criticism for seven+ years.  He turns his back on us, a little quid-pro-quo will be in order.

 

And to all those free agents lining up to play with Lebron in another City, ask yourself this - was Larry Hughes better before or after he teamed up with Lebron.  Donyell Marshall?  Damon Jones?  Kevin Ollie?  Eric Snow?  Lucius Harris?  Shaq?  Jamison?  Parker?  Mo Williams?  Ricky Davis?  Wally?  Who exactly was BETTER playing with Lebron than without?  It is not easy to find a single example.  Boozer became an all-star after he left, for instance.  Shannon Brown was a non-factor who became a big factor for the Lakers.  My point is that playing with Lebron might result in more regular season wins, but it comes at an individual price.

 

[rant off]