because the cavs are at the point in their rebuilding process that they should at least be playoff bound.  Instead, they are playing .345 ball in a conference with three teams playing over .500

 

The Browns year will be next year.  If they have a year like this year's, then they will be as big of a disappointment

Wow, Urbanohio is turning into Cleveland.com....disgusting

Status quo for Cleveland sports, just a series of never-ending disappointments strung together.  Next will be Gordon gets suspended or demands a trade, Iriving doesn't re-sign, Tribe creates some sort of false hope every 4-5 years while the Dolan's continue to bring in lesser talent than what they let walk.  Yada yada yada...

 

Do you need directions to the I-480 bridge?

This is the most disappointing Cavs season I can remember.  I think they are a very distant third behind the Tribe and Browns. Way to go Dan!

 

I'm as disappointed in the Cavs as anyone, but how are the Browns not at least as disappointing this year?

 

Sure the Browns were disappointing, about what we expected, especially given the injuries at QB. The Cavs look to be regressing.

Wow, Urbanohio is turning into Cleveland.com....disgusting

 

You cannot be serious.

The Cavs are unquestionably disappointing, but now I'm wondering if it was naive to expect a group of 21-year-olds to be good this early. Who are the Cavs 5 best players: Kyrie, Dion, Tristan, Andy, and....oh god is it Delladova? Never mind, maybe this is just a bad team.

Status quo for Cleveland sports, just a series of never-ending disappointments strung together.  Next will be Gordon gets suspended or demands a trade, Iriving doesn't re-sign, Tribe creates some sort of false hope every 4-5 years while the Dolan's continue to bring in lesser talent than what they let walk.  Yada yada yada...

 

Do you need directions to the I-480 bridge?

No, basically have no emotions left when it comes to Cleveland sports.  Sadly, I expect and accept the disappointment that we see game after game, year after year.

Cavs talking to the Lakers about trading Andrew Bynum for Pau Gasol according to ESPN.

 

It's rare that a deal in the NBA is "close" if the public has heard about it.  More likely, it means that it has been discussed and, if nothing has been announced by the time the rumor mill picks up on it, already either been discarded or tabled.  With this specific rumor, I would guess that it has been tabled.  The Lakers are likely asking for too much, such as Bynum + Waiters or Tristan or a 1st rounder.  The Lakers simply want Bynum so they can cut him before his salary becomes guaranteed so they can create some cap space and save on the luxury tax.  But their fanbase would go ballistic if they dumped Gasol just so they can dump salary.  On the other hand, Chris Grant won't make a deal unless he feels he is getting the better end of it from a talent standpoint.  It seems he wants to create a bidding war amongst a few teams who are beyond the luxury tax threshold and who aren't going to make any noise in the playoffs due to injuries....... mainly, the Lakers and the Bulls.

It's rare that a deal in the NBA is "close" if the public has heard about it.  More likely, it means that it has been discussed and, if nothing has been announced by the time the rumor mill picks up on it, already either been discarded or tabled.  With this specific rumor, I would guess that it has been tabled.  The Lakers are likely asking for too much, such as Bynum + Waiters or Tristan or a 1st rounder.  The Lakers simply want Bynum so they can cut him before his salary becomes guaranteed so they can create some cap space and save on the luxury tax.  But their fanbase would go ballistic if they dumped Gasol just so they can dump salary.  On the other hand, Chris Grant won't make a deal unless he feels he is getting the better end of it from a talent standpoint.  It seems he wants to create a bidding war amongst a few teams who are beyond the luxury tax threshold and who aren't going to make any noise in the playoffs due to injuries....... mainly, the Lakers and the Bulls.

I didn't mean to say close I should have said are talking to. I fixed it.

is bynum still a cav? isnt there supposed to be a decision today? no way they throw in waiters for gasol. just no. any hot off the press news plz post thx.

I think the Lakers are overestimating how much the Cavs want Pau. He would be a half season rental/trade chip.

The Lakers think that Chris Grant has to make the playoffs this year to keep his job.  Even if Gasol is a half-year rental, he could theoretically get us there.  LAL is reportedly insisting that the Cavs include either a 1st rounder or a young talent (Waiters, Karasev, etc.)  We do have to include something because a straight Gasol-Bynum trade does not work under the cap rules.

 

Teams seem to think that Waiters is ripe for the picking and can be had for next to nothing...... especially with the national and local media probably vastly overblowing the Kyrie-Dion locker room incident.  I suppose it is encouraging about how many teams have inquired.  But what they don't seem to realize is that Grant has a lot riding on Waiters (being the guy who picked him #4 overall) and couldn't just pawn him off in a deal even if he wanted to.  Factor in Waiters play of late and he isn't going anywhere because no team will offer what Grant would accept.

 

BTW, getting away from the trade chatter for a moment..... I want Dion to study that little run he went on in the fourth quarter last night.  He was playing with urgency, yet relaxed.  He created space (what he's best at) and then took good shots.  He took his time, got his feet under him and went straight up effortlessly with his jumpers.  They were almost all perfect swishes.  That is the type of play I would like to expect from him on a more consistent basis.

 

^ Dion has shown flashes he can play starter minutes in the NBA. For now, he's the perfect 6th man for the Cavs, like a Ginobli. I see no reason why he and Kyrie couldn't gel and actually play together. Might take some maturing from both of them though.

I've been very irritated by the "Dion is on the block" rumors. It's like somebody mentions it once, Bill Simmons repeats it 30 times, then it's all over the Internet. No matter that the Cavs could never ever get fair value for him.

Cleveland Cavaliers trade Andrew Bynum for Luol Deng

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Early Tuesday morning, Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert made it official on Twitter.

 

"Welcome @LuolDeng9 to the Cleveland Cavaliers!'' Gilbert tweeted at 12:54 a.m.

 

The Cavs finally obtained the small forward they've been seeking since the departure of LeBron James by acquiring the two-time All-Star from the Chicago Bulls in exchange for center Andrew Bynum, three future draft picks and the right to swap 2015 first round picks with the Cavs (1-14 protected).

 

It was the best possible outcome for the Cavs, who turned Bynum's attractive contract into a valuable asset who may be able to help the Cavs salvage this floundering season. It was unclear whether Deng would be here for Tuesday night's game against Philadelphia at The Q.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_cavaliers_trade_andr.html

The Cavs have wanted Deng ever since he was drafted a few spots ahead of us taking Luke Jackson the year after LBJ came to town.  I have trouble imagining a more perfect fit for this team right now.  He's a star, but not a superstar.  A veteran who leads by example.  Above average in about every facet of the game.

 

I have two hang-ups about this trade.  First, I don't know what are prospects are to re-sign him this summer, especially considering what he was demanding from the Bulls (the reason the Bulls were willing to trade him).  He might end up being a 50 game rental.  And second, I wish we didn't have to part with that Sacramento pick.  If Sacto remains pitiful for the next 4 years, it will end up being a second round pick.  But it could end up being a lottery pick if they make a run at the end of this season.  I think the pick is Top 12 protected this year and Top 10 protected the next two years..... something like that.

 

Overall, it is a huge win for the Cavs.  Their willingness to give up the additional assett the Lakers were demanding for Pau shows how much more they wanted Deng.  I am glad they got their guy.  And I'm glad I won't have to see Earl Clark stepping out of bounds on the last possession of any games any time soon.

Re-signing Deng is the key. Renting him for a half a year is unacceptable. But I'm glad to have him aboard. The trade alone should change the attitude of the players here and inject more energy into their game.

^There's other possibilities.  We could flip him at the trade deadline to a contending team for someone who is signed more long-term...... or we could sign-and-trade him at the end of the season to a team that is over the cap.

 

Bynum was going to be cut regardless by 5pm today.  The second rounders from Portland which were included are not all that sexy with the way Portland's trajectory appears to be for the foreseeable future.  The right to swap firsts in 2015 might be useless for Chicago if we leapfrog them by that time.  The Sacto pick is where we might lose something of value..... but that is only if Sacto can get their sh!te together and finish outside the top 10 in the draft, which doesn't appear likely with the mess their team is and them playing in the West.  I think that ends up being a second rounder in 2017 when all is said and done. 

fine as long as he resigns, otherwise its a waste of draft picks to rent him for half a year.

 

this year deng is averaging 19 points and 6.9 rebounds.

^Have you ever taken a look at the success rate of second round NBA draft picks?  You can catch lighting in a bottle every blue moon, but the vast majority never amount to anything.  Odds are that Deng will score more points in half the season here than all of those picks will combined for their entire career.  And, as I pointed out above, he is till an asset regardless of whether we are able to get him to agree to a new contract.

 

And, btw, the worst possible outcome would be for him to resign  :wink:

^Have you ever taken a look at the success rate of second round NBA draft picks?  You can catch lighting in a bottle every blue moon, but the vast majority never amount to anything.  Odds are that Deng will score more points in half the season here than all of those picks will combined for their entire career.  And, as I pointed out above, he is till an asset regardless of whether we are able to get him to agree to a new contract.

 

Moreso, how many first-rounders ever play in an all-star game?

 

 

And, btw, the worst possible outcome would be for him to resign  :wink:

 

Cute.

^Have you ever taken a look at the success rate of second round NBA draft picks?  You can catch lighting in a bottle every blue moon, but the vast majority never amount to anything.  Odds are that Deng will score more points in half the season here than all of those picks will combined for their entire career.  And, as I pointed out above, he is till an asset regardless of whether we are able to get him to agree to a new contract.

 

And, btw, the worst possible outcome would be for him to resign  :wink:

 

still not convinced it will make great sense. deng basically scores double what bynum did, although he isnt a center but ok. lets say that translates into a dozen wins. just enough to wreck the cavs in the draft? and assuming a great player didnt slip by the cavs gave up their play money they might need for a meaningful deal later (meaning the picks). and then deng leaves. perhaps. so i am not convinced they shouldnt have just dropped bynum. time will tell. i wonder what poor put upon andy thinks about all this.

Forget the draft. I'm tired of Cleveland teams acting with respect to upcoming drafts in the middle of a season. Win for now! Get into the freakin' playoffs!

 

What does Andy think about this?

 

Anderson Varejão ‏@VAREJAOANDERSON 8h

Welcome @LuolDeng9 to the Cleveland Cavaliers! / Bem-vindo ao Cavs, Deng!

https://twitter.com/VAREJAOANDERSON

lol! they will need to win 2 out of 3 games from here out to make the playoffs. so they better be thinking of the future, thats a tall order.

 

but irving is back, miles lit it up and they beat the 76ers last night. and no deng yet. so keep hope alive.

lol! they will need to win 2 out of 3 games from here out to make the playoffs. so they better be thinking of the future, thats a tall order.

 

but irving is back, miles lit it up and they beat the 76ers last night. and no deng yet. so keep hope alive.

The Cavs are currently 2 games out of a playoff spot.  If they win 2 out of 3 the rest of the way, they'd probably get the #3 seed.

you basically need to win 40 something. yes 38-39 could do. but to what end? trading away the future picks for someone who could likely leave? then the cavs could be right back where we started next year. this is the more likely scenario given the hodtory of cle sports. ugh.

and this upcoming draft is supposed to be the best draft in years. You want to tank this year to get the most ping-pong balls

and this upcoming draft is supposed to be the best draft in years. You want to tank this year to get the most ping-pong balls

I'm sick of being a Ping pong ball collector, I hope we never collect another one.  How about actually winning some damn games?

 

If this team would've sat on their hands and spiraled into a 25-game winner, Kyrie would've been good as gone, there's only so much losing a person can take before they want out or just accepts the losing.

 

The Cavs have enough young talent to develop for the future, who cares if they gave up some 2nd round picks which is the equivalent of a 6th/7th rounder in the NFL.  There's already not enough PT to go around for 1st round picks Waiters, Karasev, Bennett, & Zeller, what would we do with another group of SECOND ROUND picks??

 

This was a great move by the Cavs, acquiring an All-Star along with his bird rights.  Even if he doesnt't want to re-sign, the Cavs can sign & trade him to recoup some assets.  If he does decide to stay with the team that can give him the biggest contract, it makes the Cavs more attractive to land another good player or maybe even you know who.

^+1 on all points.  I will also add to the last point that, at the very least even if they don't re-sign Deng, it will showcase what this team can do with a solid contributor at the 3..... which might entice a certain unnamed free agent to be to think "hey, if they were that good with Deng, they will be unstoppable with me."

 

you basically need to win 40 something. yes 38-39 could do. but to what end? trading away the future picks for someone who could likely leave? then the cavs could be right back where we started next year. this is the more likely scenario given the hodtory of cle sports. ugh.

 

Dude..... take a look at the standings.  Detroit is holding the 8th seed right now at something like 14-22.  I also wouldn't be so sure Deng is going to leave.  He is the type of guy the Cavs might overpay to secure long term.  He is only 28 and we could probably lock him up for a deal similar to what Golden State gave to Igoudala (4yrs/$48mill).

 

 

and this upcoming draft is supposed to be the best draft in years. You want to tank this year to get the most ping-pong balls

 

Perhaps, but they say that every few years.  2012 was supposed to be on par with the 2003 draft.  Harrison Barnes was going to be the next LBJ and was the first true can't miss prospect since James.  He ended up going either 7th or 8th iirc.  Point being that things change.  This upcoming draft looks really good at the moment, but it will depend on who comes out.  Marcus Smart shocked everyone by staying in school last year and it looks to have paid off.  If I had to guess, it will have a few hot prospects at the top - Smart, Parker, Wiggins, Embiid - who will need some time to mature.  But even without Deng and absent yet another lottery miracle, the Cavs wouldn't be high enough to get those guys.  Beyond the top guys, I'm predicting that there won't be much separaing the 5-20 ranked prospects in the draft.  It will be a deep draft and picking in the teens will be a better spot to be than in years past.  We're due for a Paul George, Klay Thompson unexpected shot in the arm from someone who wasn't supposed to be as good in the pros as he turns out to be.

It should also be made clear that Kyrie isn't likely to go anywhere until 2019. He doesn't hit free agency until 2015, and the Cavs will have the right to match any offer. It's far more likely he signs an extension before then.

you basically need to win 40 something. yes 38-39 could do. but to what end? trading away the future picks for someone who could likely leave? then the cavs could be right back where we started next year. this is the more likely scenario given the hodtory of cle sports. ugh.

Again...40 wins and we're in consideration for the #3 seed?!?

 

Are you saying that if we can't win the whole thing, we should just tank again, and again, and again?

 

You never know what can happen, the Cavs very well could put another deal together for a big man and one of Miami's big 3 could have a season-ending injury.  Who knows..  Even if they win just one playoff round, it sure beats sucking game after game, year after year, going on four years.  Enough is enough..

It should also be made clear that Kyrie isn't likely to go anywhere until 2019. He doesn't hit free agency until 2015, and the Cavs will have the right to match any offer. It's far more likely he signs an extension before then.

Not if he continues to play on a crap team winning 25 games a year.  He'd be much better off signing for less $$ on a good large market team, then gain some big endorsements.  He'd end up making more $$ and be relevant.

Yeah.... ask the Sacramento Kings how being in the lottery year after year after year has worked out for them.

 

You can also probably consider Karasev and Bennett to be rookies for the next year or two to come.  The best prospects in this year's draft will all be extreme youngsters.  We are already the second youngest team in the league.  We have plenty of youth/projects to work with.

 

Not if he continues to play on a crap team winning 25 games a year.  He'd be much better off signing for less $$ on a good large market team, then gain some big endorsements.  He'd end up making more $$ and be relevant.

 

The large market endorsement thing is so 1995.  Kyrie has very good endorsement deals for a player of his caliber.  He's f'in Uncle Drew!  Due to his national renown and popularity, he is going to start in the all-star game over other guards from larger markets.  Additionally, people constantly underestimate Cleveland's NBA market size.  With no teams in Cincy, C-Bus, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo, we don't get any of our TV market cut into by areas loyal to other teams.  I'm not saying that Cincy or Pittsburgh or Buffalo is all about the Cavs, but we don't have to compete for fan loyalty in places like Y-Town, Erie, C-Bus (to an extent), etc. 

 

Besides, the only way he could hit the open market is if he turns down a max deal (which the Cavs will offer) and signs a one-year qualifying offer to become an UFA when that one year ends.  Even then, we would still hold his Bird Rights and could offer him more $$ than any endorsement deal he could get going to a larger market.  Not gonna happen.  (A) the Cavs would trade him in a heartbeat if he sent that signal; (B) it would be a huge risk given him being prone to injury; and © no player has yet to turn down a max extension on their rookie contract.  He might do what LBJ did with his second extension and give himself an out after 3 years, but he would be dumb to roll the dice on a one-year deal.

Yeah.... ask the Sacramento Kings how being in the lottery year after year after year has worked out for them.

 

You can also probably consider Karasev and Bennett to be rookies for the next year or two to come.  The best prospects in this year's draft will all be extreme youngsters.  We are already the second youngest team in the league.  We have plenty of youth/projects to work with.

 

Not if he continues to play on a crap team winning 25 games a year.  He'd be much better off signing for less $$ on a good large market team, then gain some big endorsements.  He'd end up making more $$ and be relevant.

 

The large market endorsement thing is so 1995.  Kyrie has very good endorsement deals for a player of his caliber.  He's f'in Uncle Drew!  Due to his national renown and popularity, he is going to start in the all-star game over other guards from larger markets.  Additionally, people constantly underestimate Cleveland's NBA market size.  With no teams in Cincy, C-Bus, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo, we don't get any of our TV market cut into by areas loyal to other teams.  I'm not saying that Cincy or Pittsburgh or Buffalo is all about the Cavs, but we don't have to compete for fan loyalty in places like Y-Town, Erie, C-Bus (to an extent), etc. 

 

Besides, the only way he could hit the open market is if he turns down a max deal (which the Cavs will offer) and signs a one-year qualifying offer to become an UFA when that one year ends.  Even then, we would still hold his Bird Rights and could offer him more $$ than any endorsement deal he could get going to a larger market.  Not gonna happen.  (A) the Cavs would trade him in a heartbeat if he sent that signal; (B) it would be a huge risk given him being prone to injury; and © no player has yet to turn down a max extension on their rookie contract.  He might do what LBJ did with his second extension and give himself an out after 3 years, but he would be dumb to roll the dice on a one-year deal.

I want to believe that he wouldn't leave, but don't see him staying on a team that keeps stringing together 20-25 wins/year.

A player isn't going to turn down $70 million because he's crabby.

A player isn't going to turn down $70 million because he's crabby.

How much did Lebron "turn down" by not signing with the Cavs?

A player isn't going to turn down $70 million because he's crabby.

How much did Lebron "turn down" by not signing with the Cavs?

 

Lebron did indeed sign his first max extension off his rookie contract with the Cavs...... just as every other player who has been offered the same has done with the team that drafted them.  The new CBA now has clauses which incentivizes that first extension even more, iirc.

 

It was the second extension that LBJ turned down to sign with Miami.  I believe it was something like an additional year and $20-$30 million in guaranteed money he left on the table in salary alone.... with the caveat that Florida's lack of a state income tax made up some of that difference.  I strongly suspect he also lost out on some endorsement money by vilifying his brand for a few years before bringing it back to prominence. 

 

But his situation is further differentiated from Kyrie's in that he has no significant injury history.  For Lebron, it's all about getting to the next contract, which will allow his base pay to go up per the CBA rules.  He has never had any interest, even in signing with the Heat, in maxing out his years, which takes some of the incentive away from re-signing with the team that owns your Bird Rights (I think this is something the new CBA addressed).  For someone like Kyrie, it has to be about guaranteeing as much money as possible for as long as possible...... a la Derrick Rose and John Wall, both of whom signed max extensions off their rookie contracts at the very earliest opportunity..... and, in Wall's case, with "a team that keeps stringing together 20-25 wins/year"

Lebron didn't lose anything signing with Miami. The Cavs agreed to a sign and trade, which gave him his max contract. The last 2 years as player options I think.

^I had forgot about that, but he still left guaranteed contract money on the table.  This was because Miami couldn't sign all three (LBJ, Wade, Bosh) to max money deals.  So each had to take a little less, which was made up (mostly) due to the lack of a state income tax.  As for the years, as I said, that has always been Lebron's play (to give himself an out after a few years, or the option to play it out).

Lebron didn't lose anything signing with Miami. The Cavs agreed to a sign and trade, which gave him his max contract. The last 2 years as player options I think.

So Kyrie could conceivably do the same thing as Lebron?

 

The bottom line is that the Dang pick-up was a good move, it shows the Cavs want to win and may open up bigger and better things down the road.  Continuous losing isn't helping anyone.

So Kyrie could conceivably do the same thing as Lebron?

 

Yes, but we wouldn't have our backs against the wall like we did with Lebron (who had already announced his intentions to sign with Miami... at much less if that is what it took) and would likely be able to work out something similar to what Denver did with Melo and NOLA did with Chris Paul.  Or he could 'conceivably' sign for the NBA minimum...... anything's possible I suppose.  But your losing sight of the new CBA, the fact that Kyrie is not Lebron, and that all superstars (Lebron included) learned lessons from "The Decision"

^ And what lesson was that? Join up with your buddies in a larger market and win titles?

 

Lebron's success means every middle of the road allstar is going to think he can team up with his crew and win championships. I don't think Kyrie is going anywhere for a while but I doubt he hasn't thought about it.

I think its a great move.  If Kyrie Irving signs somewhere else, he will leave an extremely large amount of money on the table, somehere in the neighborhood of $20 Mill.  I dont think the cavs will be doing any sign and trades with him either.  Deng is a Duke guy...I think him and Kyrie will run well together.  If the cavs do sneak into the playoffs and play the heat...that series just got a little better.  Deng guards Lebron as good as about anyone can.  I knwo the Heat go to new levels in the playoffs, but i think the average margin of defeat last year between Heat-Cavs was under 2 points.  They led late in most of those games.  And they led very late in December when we played them.  Obviously would never say we would win, but a tough series against the heat in the playoffs may go a long way in a return from King.

 

Ultimately, i think getting rid of Bynum was the key here.  THe rumros going around Twitter about him taking sky hooks from the three point line when Mike Brown was running sets doesnt seem too far fetched.  This guy is a loner and a a-hole, i think a cancer to the team.  THey sure looked like they were happy he was gone last night.  Although it hasnt translated into wins, Dan Gilbert and Grant seem to get things done to keep the fan base very interested...i would suspect they will do what they have to do next summer to keep Kyrie, perhaps make Deng interested in staying and perhaps make a pitch for Lebron.

^They play MUCH faster without Bynum, and I think that plays to the strengths of the rest of the roster.

 

^ And what lesson was that? Join up with your buddies in a larger market and win titles?

 

Lebron's success means every middle of the road allstar is going to think he can team up with his crew and win championships. I don't think Kyrie is going anywhere for a while but I doubt he hasn't thought about it.

 

(A) It's a stretch to say that Miami is a larger NBA market.  But if you want a lesson on the strategy of going to a larger market with your buddies just for the purpose of being in a larger market, check out Melo and the Knicks...... or Dwight forcing his way to LAL..... or Garnett, Pierce, etc. all teaming up for Brooklyn.  (B) The lesson I was referencing was "The Decision".... i.e. the way he did it, not the move.  It was the way he handled the situation, the way he left the Cavs with their hands tied behind their back, and the negative fallout from that.  He's even admitted it was a mistake and LBJ does not normally admit to mistakes.  Nobody has dared try it since.  Denver got great compensation for Melo.  Orlando did as well as it could with Howard.  NOLA too with Paul.  They certainly got waaaaaay more than two first round picks from a team that is going to perenially contend for a title.

 

(A) It's a stretch to say that Miami is a larger NBA market. 

 

Geographically speaking and considering closest teams, the Cavaliers are a rather large market:

 

 

(A) It's a stretch to say that Miami is a larger NBA market. 

 

Geographically speaking and considering closest teams, the Cavaliers are a rather large market:

 

 

And considering the population within that area.

What is the breakdown in Toledo between Cavs and Pistons? Anyone want to guess?

 

The best part of that Map was they had to wedge the Clippers into a tiny spot by LA, while the rest of SoCal is the lakers.

What is the breakdown in Toledo between Cavs and Pistons? Anyone want to guess?

 

 

Since you offered a guess, mine is that it's largely split between state lines and Toledo media and fans would be cavs. I'm basing it on the NFL team allegiances, which was analyzed by Facebook, http://deadspin.com/5979970/facebook-data-provides-the-most-accurate-nfl-fandom-map-ever-created and

 

Another quick analysis, compare mentions of them in their local media. I did this with the toledo blade, surprisingly, there were more mentions on toledoblade.com (thanks to google site search) of pistons AND "detroit pistons" than cavaliers and "cleveland cavaliers" or just "cavs")