11 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

I wear glasses, so every so often I take down my mask to stop the fogging of the lenses and to just get some fresh air. Yesterday someone yelled at me while it was off and told me to put the (expletive) mask back on! I ignored him since I never seem to come up with a snappy response fast enough. I should have said just for that You're disinvited to my (non-existent) Super Bowl party!  This guy was the type of person you can spot from a mile away and just by looking at his eyes can tell he's seething with anger, ready to lash out at someone who is not obeying the Covid "rules." As far as I know, there's little to no risk of spreading the virus outdoors, right?

Very little risk of outdoor transmission.  I don't wear one outside usually. 

6 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Very little risk of outdoor transmission.  I don't wear one outside usually. 

I would say only about 10% of people in NY don't wear one outside, but there are probably another 10% (like this guy) who give you the evil eye if you don't. I heard a commentator say once they look at non-mask wearers like they're clubbing baby seals. 

Edited February 6, 20214 yr by eastvillagedon

1 minute ago, eastvillagedon said:

I would say only about 10% of people in NY don't wear one outside, but there are probably another 10% (like this guy) who give you the evil eye if you don't. I heard a commentator say once they look at non-mask wearers like they're clubbing baby seals. 

I suppose crowded sidewalks in NYC might be a different story than my Lakewood sidewalks. But still, wearing glasses outside with a mask is a pain. 

Wearing one outside seems a little ridiculous, unless it's seriously jam-packed, shoulder to shoulder. I think that looks equally as dumb, personally. How about the folks who wear one while they're driving?! I hope to God they just forgot to take it off. Mask laws are a weird one. There's no standardization for masks. Anything covering your face in some fashion can be considered a mask. Yet, there's a huge difference between wearing a cloth bandana hanging off your face with a giant opening underneath vs. wearing an N95 mask. There's no standardized testing, clinical trials or government regulation concerning the quality and effectiveness of the required mask. 

I wear glasses. I noticed it helps if you pull the mask up a bit and tuck the glasses down, above the mask. Prevents a lot of the air from escaping upward.

Edited February 6, 20214 yr by David

1 minute ago, David said:

How about the folks who wear one while they're driving?!

Sometimes i leave it on in my car when I am running quick errands between 2 different spots that are close by. 

50 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

can no one else just keep their mouth closed and plug their nose when they have to sneeze indoors with a mask? It's not great, but it's doesn't leave snot in your mask and doesn't expose others.

Sometimes people just gotta live and you have to allow reasonable exceptions for things. Yes, it would be ideal if we all followed everything perfectly. I dont think keeping your mouth closed and plugging your nose is really is overly practical to most people.

 

I remember back in college someone said in an effort to save the environment and cut down on waste, people should separate the 2 ply toilet paper into one ply and you can get twice as much use out of it. 

 

Not me, but a woman from Paris said:  "It drives me crazy when American spew curses and vulgarity and then say, 'Pardon my French'."

Wow, consecutive entries in this thread.  I must be getting old. 

 

Anyway, it's taxes, and I made my first pass at completing the forms today.  I don't mind paying them, but why does figuring them out have to be so hard?  I have always prepared the forms myself and feel that if I can't then the tax laws need simplifying.  Specific complaint: I have a household employee (cleaning woman, putzfrau, whatever you want to call her). For years I have been paying her social security, even though she begged me not to; but now she's getting older and Medicare is looking better to her.  I'm tryng to do the right thing but the government EVERY YEAR adds some unexplained new wrinkle to the calculation and filing process, which wrinkle is explained only in one or more publications not included in the filing package. The difference in what I pay is generally less than $10 and I spend ten times that agonizing over how to comply. It should be A LOT easier.

 

OK, end of rant.  I know I'm fortunate to have this employee and be able to afford her.  Still, I wouldn't complain about a law that required Senators to do their own taxes.

I use the Your Money Page payroll tax calculator at https://yourmoneypage.com/withhold/oh.php

 

It automatically updates with all that stuff and is free with ads. You can also create a login so you can save the info for historical purposes. It has saved me a ton of time over the years and you don't have to pay for the software like with QuickBooks.

13 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

I use the Your Money Page payroll tax calculator at https://yourmoneypage.com/withhold/oh.php

 

It automatically updates with all that stuff and is free with ads. You can also create a login so you can save the info for historical purposes. It has saved me a ton of time over the years and you don't have to pay for the software like with QuickBooks.

 

One of my complications is the cleaning woman and I live in different states, which gets complicated when you get to FUTA taxes.  Why should I pay Maryland FUTA when she would file for unemployment in Virginia? The government manual says consult your tax advisor, but I don't have one. 🤪

The IRS sucks. They haven't even processed my 2019 tax return that I sent in the mail last year, let alone 2020 that I e-filed on the 12th. I understand 2019 was mailed but damn... Apparently 6 million others still have the same issue. I've never received a stimulus check and I didn't really care that much about the $1200 but with all these bills being passed by congress, I start to care when everyone else but me is getting thousands upon thousands of dollars in free money, yet I have to deal with the inflation and/or national debt it results in, like every other citizen. It's basically impossible to get ahold of the IRS but they sure know how to find YOU if they need to.

Rant number two: Ever since Covid hit, customer service everywhere has gone to $%#@. Yeah, I understand we're dealing with a pandemic, but I really feel like companies are using Covid as an excuse for everything and I mean any kind of business. My lawyer talked me into settling out of court for a ridiculous low-ball offer because Covid apparently has the court system backed up several years. Customer service on the phone is horrible and no one you talk to knows anything or how to handle problems because everyone is working from home with less resources and training, no supervisors, no coworkers nearby to help with issues. In some towns in Ohio, there's literally no public bathrooms at any gas stations or restaurants. I'm like "Are you serious?!" The reply is always, "Sorry... Covid." More like, you love having an excuse to shut down your dining room and bathroom so you lazy people don't have to clean it. We ordered a new Samsung fridge from Home Depot and the delivery date (the other day) was over two weeks from when it was ordered. Sat at home all evening twiddling thumbs, waiting for it to show up and it never did. Called Home Depot at 7:45pm asking why they didn't show up by 7pm and they said my order was 'cancelled' but didn't know why and called their delivery company but they closed at 7. Said they'd call me back the next morning to let me know what's going on but they never did. Logged into Home Depot's site and it said my fridge HAS BEEN DELIVERED to my address so I called them again and they finally got ahold of their delivery company, who told them my fridge was damaged so they sent it back. THEY COULDN'T CALL ME TO LET ME KNOW?! They have my number! Probably because THEY damaged it and didn't want to face me and tell me about it. Home Depot put me on the phone with Samsung for some reason - Samsung had no idea what was going on and after I explained it all to the hood rat Samsung hired off the street, she just told me to re-order a new one through Home Depot, which will arrive in ANOTHER two weeks. Didn't offer me a discount, comparable floor model that I could get sooner or anything! I already got rid of the old fridge because I thought a new one was arriving when it was supposed to! I'm so sick of dealing with incompetent people, wasting my time.

3 hours ago, David said:

The IRS sucks. They haven't even processed my 2019 tax return that I sent in the mail last year, let alone 2020 that I e-filed on the 12th. I understand 2019 was mailed but damn... Apparently 6 million others still have the same issue. I've never received a stimulus check and I didn't really care that much about the $1200 but with all these bills being passed by congress, I start to care when everyone else but me is getting thousands upon thousands of dollars in free money, yet I have to deal with the inflation and/or national debt it results in, like every other citizen. It's basically impossible to get ahold of the IRS but they sure know how to find YOU if they need to.
 

 

Tax refunds and processing are indeed quite slow this year, both federal and Ohio. But so far they are within the "expected window" still. Also a lot of people are expecting the $1400 part of the stimulus to come soon. I can tell it's going on too long since the amount of stuff people sell us is going way up while our sales are flat.

On 2/26/2021 at 10:49 AM, GCrites80s said:

 

Tax refunds and processing are indeed quite slow this year, both federal and Ohio. But so far they are within the "expected window" still. Also a lot of people are expecting the $1400 part of the stimulus to come soon. I can tell it's going on too long since the amount of stuff people sell us is going way up while our sales are flat.

I file single, have no dependents, etc. so as it is for a lot of people, tax time isn't usually fun for me. I might get some kind of credit for 401k contributions but that's about it. I doubt that makes much of a difference. But now that I'm owed money for 2019 and 2020 from ACTUALLY OVERPAYING a lot plus the Stimulus packages happening, my tax papers mysteriously get stuck in Limbo. Ugh.

Then you have folks who hit the lottery every March! Like my insanely lazy, ex room mate/person who thinks we've been close friends for years until I finally went off on him and cut all ties, last week. He now has 2 kids but quits his job every 3 months when he gets bored because he gets VA money anyway ($1000 a month) to go to college because his DAD was in the military back in the day. He takes like one or maybe two bull%$#@ classes online per semester for the tax credit and VA money and just messaged me last week asking me for a loan - saying he'll pay me back when his TEN GRAND tax refund arrives. Money he said he has no intention of sharing with the mother of his kids. I was sitting there trying to figure out how the hell you get $10k back from the IRS in his situation... Someone like him doesn't intentionally or accidentally have excess money withheld and overpay taxes. He has to be committing tax fraud, right? Unless the college credit is really that high. His girlfriend left him and took their kids with her early in 2020 (can't say I blame her, I couldn't stand living with him either) so he obviously wouldn't have a right to file head of household and claim his girlfriend and 2 kids but it seems like he would have to do all that, plus file less W2s than he was issued, to keep his income low enough to get all that earned income credit money, and probably even commit more fraud than that. He'll probably get another $10k or more soon depending on how much fraud he's puling, since we're getting another stimulus check that includes $3000 per child. He's also from Portsmouth, conservative, a Trump supporter, claims he's a Christian, negatively stereotypes minorities with all of his own disgusting attributes, is generally naive about everything, has a Real Tree Camo edition HP laptop he paid like $900 for but wonders why it's so slow, buys everything he has from Rent-A-Center ... you know the type.

This guy has the best luck...I've never seen anyone quit their job so many times but find another high paying one whenever he's ready to go back to work. They don't even question his gaps in employment or look into why he quit or got fired from his last job. Gets all this tax money back every year. I remember one time he told me he was in a car accident, where the person in the other car died. His car flipped but he wasn't even injured. But they life-flighted him to a hospital, not sure why, I guess he was in the middle of nowhere. Since he travelled to the hospital via helicopter, the insurance company offered him $25k to settle out of court for pain and suffering and he got the money soon after the accident. I was in an accident where my car was totaled from a guy running a red light at high speed and T-Boning me. I had cervical pain, a torn labrum and reinjured the rotator cuff in the opposite shoulder, according to my two MRIs. A year and a half later, after all these doctor visits, months of physical therapy sessions, many of which I had to take off work for, a few trips to the Cleveland Clinic because my first Orthopaedic doctor down here sucked and did nothing but rush me in and out and also being in pain every day until recently when I discovered collagen peptides and cut out sugar to reduce inflammation, the insurance company offered me $800 whole dollars as their final offer! And I took it because of what I mentioned earlier, how my attorney said the courts were backed up for years due to Covid. Also, he said that All State will spend $10k on doctors who will have the jury so confused, they don't even know what's going on.

Insurance companies calculate pain and suffering by taking your medical bills and multiplying it by 3. My insurance at the time had really low reimbursement rates but I think they low-balled because of Covid. You can imagine how much a trip in a helicopter to the hospital might costs. Times 3. Some people have all the luck when they should be in prison for fraud. I'm sure it'll all catch up to him.

 

Edited February 28, 20214 yr by David

Sounds like he's Smooth.

1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

Sounds like he's Smooth.

Smooth.. LOL. Not sure of your definitition of smooth but that's not what comes to my mind. He just grew up in a culture where they know how to milk the system. He's actually the most socially inept person I've ever met, otherwise he'd make a great consultant for people looking to maximize their refunds and take advantage of government programs and insurance companies.

The Humpback Whales he dated were girls he met from Tinder and they ALL lived over 60 miles away, at home with their parents with no jobs, so he must have gotten on Tinder starting out with trying to match within a 15 or 20 mile radius, and having to increase the radius to include the Dayton area. Pretty bad, when you live in metro Columbus. Whenever I'd introduce him to my friends, especially women, he would just be silent the whole time, staring into the distance. He was always so awkward around anyone, it was embarrassing. He would bring these girls he met from datings apps to our house and there would be all this awkward silence, I had to end up talking to these random women and make conversation, just so it wouldn't be weird. They of course had kids that they ended up bringing over, toddlers that would destroy my stuff and rummage through my room. Eventually, of course the women would try to live at our house and I wasn't having it. Essentially using him for a place to stay. Come to think of it, he was snagging these Humpbacks around tax season.

Aside from him always being short on his half of the bills, I had to get out of there because he stunk so bad from being fat and only taking a shower once every week or two. He had surprisingly dry skin for someone who almost never took a shower. It must have been his horrible diet; he didn't do drugs. There would be so many dry flakes of skin that you could see covering all of the rugs. I'd wash them and they'd be entirely covered again in a week. it really grossed me out. He was usually short on paying his half of the bills because he would spend about $50 a night on delivery food. He'd eat an entire large pizza, bread sticks w/ marianara and 20 wings and leave stacks of pizza/wing boxes, etc. piling up next to his Laz-E-Boy in the living room until I got on him about it.

I've had so many horrible room mates... I think I made a thread about some of them lol.

 

Edited February 28, 20214 yr by David

9 hours ago, David said:

Smooth.. LOL. Not sure of your definitition of smooth but that's not what comes to my mind. He just grew up in a culture where they know how to milk the system. He's actually the most socially inept person I've ever met, otherwise he'd make a great consultant for people looking to maximize their refunds and take advantage of government programs and insurance companies.

The Humpback Whales he dated were girls he met from Tinder and they ALL lived over 60 miles away, at home with their parents with no jobs, so he must have gotten on Tinder starting out with trying to match within a 15 or 20 mile radius, and having to increase the radius to include the Dayton area. Pretty bad, when you live in metro Columbus. Whenever I'd introduce him to my friends, especially women, he would just be silent the whole time, staring into the distance. He was always so awkward around anyone, it was embarrassing. He would bring these girls he met from datings apps to our house and there would be all this awkward silence, I had to end up talking to these random women and make conversation, just so it wouldn't be weird. They of course had kids that they ended up bringing over, toddlers that would destroy my stuff and rummage through my room. Eventually, of course the women would try to live at our house and I wasn't having it. Essentially using him for a place to stay. Come to think of it, he was snagging these Humpbacks around tax season.

Aside from him always being short on his half of the bills, I had to get out of there because he stunk so bad from being fat and only taking a shower once every week or two. He had surprisingly dry skin for someone who almost never took a shower. It must have been his horrible diet; he didn't do drugs. There would be so many dry flakes of skin that you could see covering all of the rugs. I'd wash them and they'd be entirely covered again in a week. it really grossed me out. He was usually short on paying his half of the bills because he would spend about $50 a night on delivery food. He'd eat an entire large pizza, bread sticks w/ marianara and 20 wings and leave stacks of pizza/wing boxes, etc. piling up next to his Laz-E-Boy in the living room until I got on him about it.

I've had so many horrible room mates... I think I made a thread about some of them lol.

 

Sorry you've had to deal with all that. Just wanted to point out, that as I was reading your rant, it felt like I was reading a JMeck post!!

11 hours ago, David said:

Then you have folks who hit the lottery every March! Like my insanely lazy, ex room mate/person who thinks we've been close friends for years until I finally went off on him and cut all ties, last week. He now has 2 kids but quits his job every 3 months when he gets bored because he gets VA money anyway ($1000 a month) to go to college because his DAD was in the military back in the day. He takes like one or maybe two bull%$#@ classes online per semester for the tax credit and VA money and just messaged me last week asking me for a loan - saying he'll pay me back when his TEN GRAND tax refund arrives.

I have learned over the years that it is best not to worry about these people who may catch the extra breaks such as always getting the next big job or getting the big tax refund even though they should not be entitled to it, etc. While in some areas, luck may seem to shine on them, in other areas they are likely suffering or have suffered in the past. I am not really a karma type guy but do think that over time, things have a way to even themselves out. Plus we dont truly know all the trials and trevails of a person as there are many things they keep to themselves. Finally, it just is not worth wasting energy over something you have no control over and pulling it away from focusing on you.

11 hours ago, David said:

Smooth.. LOL. Not sure of your definitition of smooth but that's not what comes to my mind. He just grew up in a culture where they know how to milk the system. He's actually the most socially inept person I've ever met, otherwise he'd make a great consultant for people looking to maximize their refunds and take advantage of government programs and insurance companies.

The Humpback Whales he dated were girls he met from Tinder and they ALL lived over 60 miles away, at home with their parents with no jobs, so he must have gotten on Tinder starting out with trying to match within a 15 or 20 mile radius, and having to increase the radius to include the Dayton area. Pretty bad, when you live in metro Columbus. Whenever I'd introduce him to my friends, especially women, he would just be silent the whole time, staring into the distance. He was always so awkward around anyone, it was embarrassing. He would bring these girls he met from datings apps to our house and there would be all this awkward silence, I had to end up talking to these random women and make conversation, just so it wouldn't be weird. They of course had kids that they ended up bringing over, toddlers that would destroy my stuff and rummage through my room. Eventually, of course the women would try to live at our house and I wasn't having it. Essentially using him for a place to stay. Come to think of it, he was snagging these Humpbacks around tax season.

Aside from him always being short on his half of the bills, I had to get out of there because he stunk so bad from being fat and only taking a shower once every week or two. He had surprisingly dry skin for someone who almost never took a shower. It must have been his horrible diet; he didn't do drugs. There would be so many dry flakes of skin that you could see covering all of the rugs. I'd wash them and they'd be entirely covered again in a week. it really grossed me out. He was usually short on paying his half of the bills because he would spend about $50 a night on delivery food. He'd eat an entire large pizza, bread sticks w/ marianara and 20 wings and leave stacks of pizza/wing boxes, etc. piling up next to his Laz-E-Boy in the living room until I got on him about it.

I've had so many horrible room mates... I think I made a thread about some of them lol.

 

 

Oh I get it now. Not smooth but good at job interviews. 

Re: his eating habits. I find it interesting that such a large portion of the population doesn't know/doesn't care A) what a reasonable amount of food is to consume and B) what is a reasonable amount of money to spend on food on a daily basis.

It annoys me how long it takes to see a doctor who is a specialist. Even my primary care doctor is always booked up 2-3 weeks. I was in a really bad car accident and fractured my wrist and L3 vertebra which was compressed 10% according to my first Xray and after just getting a follow up Xray done a couple months later it's now compressed 33%. No idea if that is normal or what it means for me but I want answers now! I looked up my condition on the internet along with my symptoms and... swear to God, it told me 25% of people with it have blood cancer... 

2 minutes ago, David said:

It annoys me how long it takes to see a doctor who is a specialist. Even my primary care doctor is always booked up 2-3 weeks. I was in a really bad car accident and fractured my wrist and L3 vertebra which was compressed 10% according to my first Xray and after just getting a follow up Xray done a couple months later it's now compressed 33%. No idea if that is normal or what it means for me but I want answers now! I looked up my condition on the internet along with my symptoms and... swear to God, it told me 25% of people with it have blood cancer... 

bUt MUh sOciaLIzed MEDUSIN!  

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

bUt MUh sOciaLIzed MEDUSIN!  

Not sure if I follow. Socialized medicine makes it take even longer to see a doctor? I can get quicker appointments if I'm willing to see a nurse practitioner or physicians assistant but I don't like them; not for lack of education or anything like that but they seem hesitant to prescribe or even diagnose things. I don't know if it's because they opt out of getting malpractice insurance or just continue their education for more money or what. I saw a nurse practitioner last time I went to my primary care doctor's office b/c he's always so booked up and requested a NON narcotic medication that I know works for my back pain and she wouldn't prescribe it to me because she "doesn't know if my doctor would want me on it.." Woman, you have the same medical records he does! He was out of the office that day and for the next 3 days. The only thing I got out of that visit was her ordering diagnostic imaging. Whoop..de do. A monkey could order it. I should be able to order my own follow-up Xray 2 months after a f-king spinal compression fracture. Healthcare is a mess, period.

 

 

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by David

34 minutes ago, David said:

Socialized medicine makes it take even longer to see a doctor?

I've been to an emergency room in major cities in Germany, Canada and Australia.   In all three instances, there was little wait time (especially when compared to the wait time in most US metro ER depts.   

 

I have not seen a private practice in these countries, but I can't imagine booking one is any more difficult than doctors and specialists in the USA these days.  Much of the "it takes longer to see a doctor" narrative is manufactured by the for profit US medical and insurance industries.   But this is probably much better discussed in the Health Care forum.

Honestly, what I miss the most about living in Cleveland is the world-class healthcare. Like I said, I live 20 miles west of Columbus so I have a Primary doctor out here. When I saw that NP in lieu of the MD I usually see, she was baffled and asked me why I have a spine specialist all the way at the Cleveland Clinic. Because they're ranked #2 in the world in Orthopaedics. You guys have signs up saying you're a top hospital to work at, probably because you all barely have to do anything. They use the same imaging system (PACs) as the Cleveland Clinic and didn't know what I was talking about when I asked them to release my Xrays to my doctor there. Frickin dum-dums work there, I swear. They gave me a CD with the images... My Dell Latitude doesn't even have a CD drive for the same reason it doesn't have a cassette drive or an 8 track player or floppy drive.

14 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I've been to an emergency room in major cities in Germany, Canada and Australia.   In all three instances, there was little wait time (especially when compared to the wait time in most US metro ER depts.   

 

I have not seen a private practice in these countries, but I can't imagine booking one is any more difficult than doctors and specialists in the USA these days.  Much of the "it takes longer to see a doctor" narrative is manufactured by the for profit US medical and insurance industries.   But this is probably much better discussed in the Health Care forum.

 

It was manufactured back in the early '90s and they just keep saying it since most of their audience doesn't have that kind of perspective.

14 minutes ago, David said:

Honestly, what I miss the most about living in Cleveland is the world-class healthcare. Like I said, I live 20 miles west of Columbus so I have a Primary doctor out here. When I saw that NP in lieu of the MD I usually see, she was baffled and asked me why I have a spine specialist all the way at the Cleveland Clinic. Because they're ranked #2 in the world in Orthopaedics. You guys have signs up saying you're a top hospital to work at, probably because you all barely have to do anything. They use the same imaging system (PACs) as the Cleveland Clinic and didn't know what I was talking about when I asked them to release my Xrays to my doctor there. Frickin dum-dums work there, I swear. They gave me a CD with the images... My Dell Latitude doesn't even have a CD drive for the same reason it doesn't have a cassette drive or an 8 track player or floppy drive.

 

Any time I'm at the doctor I see a ton of serial and parallel ports. The stuff still works for them I guess.

That's so true lol! They always have dinosaur computers and run old versions of Windows. I imagine it would make sense to have desktops that support USB-C, thunderbolt or the latest HDMI or DisplayPort and a CPU/GPU that can handle 4k resolution because when you're looking at an X-Ray or MRI, the clearer the picture, the better, for any doctor reviewing them. Obviously.

As far as socialized medicine, I'm all for it. I can't imagine it would be worse care. Seems like we essentially have a hybrid system, you have folks with private insurance and those with gov't insurance like medicaid/medicare. Then you have people with no coverage that are a burden on hospitals and anyone paying premiums. People with no coverage and medicaid/medicare (which pays literally pennies on the dollar in terms of reimbursement rates) just cause premiums to go up for the privately insured because that's literally the only way hospitals can actually make money. They did a study I read (sorry, don't have a link at the moment) and found that even though hospitals can claim tax exempt status by accepting government insurance with their ridiculously low reimbursement rates (about $100 for an MRI, btw) it's ultimately not worth these organizations accepting gov't insurance. The whole thing is a mess. It's not the fault of gov't insurance, it's just too damn complicated and too much of a burden put on private insurers. Doctors are dissuaded from providing treatments to those with government insurance due to the low reimbursement rates and the same treatment is offered to those with private insurance but they're paying an unreasonable amount of money for procedures and who the hell likes co-pays? Co-pays are ridiculous and annoying. They shouldn't exist. Clinics will  have a 6 patient per hour quotas for the doctor. It's healthcare, not a Wendy's drive-thru. I shouldn't have to be rushed in and out when my spine is fractured. 

Despite being socialized, Canada has a system where doctors get bonuses based on merit, customer satisfaction, that sort of thing. I don't see how our complicated @ss healthcare system could possibly be any better. The biggest medical breakthroughs come from non-profit hospitals like Cleveland Clinic and Mayo. Private insurance companies just don't want their industry disrupted. Insurance is such a dirty business, I honestly wouldn't care if all forms of insurance were socialized.

Also, what's with the rapid rise in nurse practitioners and physicians assistants running the show? Even my spine specialist at the Cleveland Clinic is physician's assistant. I'm pretty sure she prescribes and diagnoses without supervision. Don't get me wrong, she's great, but it seems like hospitals are hiring them to cut costs and it seems people are going the nurse practitioner and physician's assistant route because they can make more money, yet assume less responsibility and opt out of paying for malpractice insurance and too often refer people like me to a specificist, i.e. deferring responsibility to an MD to put any diagnosis/misdiagnosis on them instead. Meanwhile, the MDs are all booked up. As a patient, it wastes my money and time. Also, no doubt schooling is a lot cheaper for NPs and PA-Cs compared to medical school, which warrants the conversation about how ridiculous the price of a universities are. It's like $50k+ per year at OSU's College of Dentistry which is one of the easiest dental schools to get into and they spend 2 of those years actually working all day, actually fixing teeth. Both healthcare and education in this country is a scam. It's hard to believe there used to be a time when people could "work their way through college." Like, you could actually work on the weekends in college and pay your tuition. I can't even fathom that.

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by David

Probably not enough MDs to go around since Americans are so terrible at math and science that they can't get through pre-med.

21 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Probably not enough MDs to go around since Americans are so terrible at math and science that they can't get through pre-med.

 

44 minutes ago, David said:

Despite being socialized, Canada has a system where doctors get bonuses based on merit, customer satisfaction, that sort of thing. I don't see how our complicated @ss healthcare system could possibly be any better. The biggest medical breakthroughs come from non-profit hospitals like Cleveland Clinic and Mayo. Private insurance companies just don't want their industry disrupted. Insurance is such a dirty business, I honestly wouldn't care if all forms of insurance were socialized.

 

not a socialized v unsocialized argument, but one of the key reasons why you see the rise of NP's and PA's in the primary care field and fewer doctors is that there is a shortage all over the country of primary care doctors. NP's and PA's can earn 2/3 -75% of what a primary care physician earns so there is a disincentive to become a GP in the US and those who have a desire to pursue a Primary Care path typically now become an NP or PA. It is much cheaper on the practitioner to earn the degree that way and they can provide essentially 90% of the same services. 

 

Doctors in this country, or those who come to this country to practice are incentivized to pursue fellowships and specialist certifications because they pay significantly higher.  The US medical system is really a specialist system. It provides the best specialized healthcare in the world, which is why everyone comes to the US for specialized medical services. The world class research and development of procedures and practices that occurs in the US is not able to be duplicated by the other countries who have socialized medicine. 

 

Countries like Canada and the UK place a much larger emphasis on primary care. Their primary care is definitely more efficient and better than in the US which relies on specialists a lot more. The downside is, that if you need someone who specializes in a certain field like oncology or sports medicine, the waiting list to get into those specialists can be significantly long in those countries. 

 

The pay is not significantly better for GP's in Europe from what I understand, but the pay is also not significantly better than a GP if you are a specialist in Europe. That is why many of the specialists try and come to the US to practice. There are more orthopedic specialists in Brooklyn NY than in the entire Eurozone. 

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

There are more orthopedic specialists in Brooklyn NY than in the entire Eurozone. 

can you cite a source?

28 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

can you cite a source?

My source was a CEO of a health insurance system. 

 

For reference sake, you hear stories on how so many people in Canada and Europe talk about waiting in line for months to get into a doc to see someone for their disease. You hear many expats talk about how they breezed throguh the ER and did not have to wait to see the doctor too.  The difference is that the ex-pats were going to a primary care doc and the others needed specialty care. The bottleneck and problem with the European models are that they really do not have extra capacity for specialty care. They do primary care very well under their model.  So, you can have great easy access to health care in those countries but the caveat is you better not get cancer or some other rare disease because you will be waiting forever in those cases. 

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by Brutus_buckeye

so no sources. Thanks!

Just going by the basics, I'd much rather have a Canadian or Euro-system regarding healthcare than the current US model.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

I bet there are more hospital CEOs in Brooklyn NY than the entire Eurozone too.

Every millennial general practitioner (Physician's assistant, Nurse Practitioner, MD, DO) regarding any concern you have: "Sorry, that's outside my scope of practice. I'm going to have to refer you to a specialist." The best primary care doctors are the old-school ones but they're all retiring. If you can find one, they probably don't speak or understand English very well.
 

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by David

One time a GP told me that and I had just had enough and snapped and said, "Well wtf is IN your SCOPE of PRACTICE?!" She said, 'Sooooo... like, if you have a cold or something like that, I could treat it.' Healthcare is so f---cked and inefficient in this country.

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by David

You know who I miss? Dr. Joe Walker DDS. He's probably still practicing at Marino and Assoc. in Cleveland Hts. He's this old school black dude, knew how to do everything and he didn't give a f---. Whatever was wrong with you, he fixed it. I initially went to Immediadent (they're supposed to be an emergency dental clinic) because I had tooth pain and knew something was up but they did absolutely nothing but give me 2 referrals to 2 specialists that were booked up for months. Oral surgery for wisdom teeth and Endodontics (a root canal on a tooth.) I found out about Dr. Walker so I made an appt with him. I got there and gave him my paperwork. He said, "A place called IMMEDIADENT gave you TWO REFERRALS?" I was like, "RIGHT!!?" Despite being a general dentist, he pulled my two wisdom teeth Immediadent wasn't comfortable pulling, and performed the root canal all in one visit. I said, "Dr. Walker, how are you able to do all these specialized procedures?" He said, "Look, if you're a carpenter, sometimes you have to go out and chop some wood." What he said didn't really make sense but at the same time it made perfect sense. He did have a hell of a time trying to pull my wisdom teeth. Took him about 45 minutes; he said I should work for the Russian circus and be one of those people who swing from poles by their teeth lol!

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by David

2 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

so no sources. Thanks!

No I had a source. Someone who happened to be highly connected in the industry. Was it published no, but it is still a source on how healthcare is run. 
but since it does not comport with your preconceived narrative about healthcare I get how you cant acknowledge it

Personally, I think the only reason specialists are so prevalent and make so much money in America is because they are the absolute end-game. You can't be undiagnosed by a PA-C, NP, MD or DO and sent to a specialist who also doesn't diagnose and treat you. They can't charge insurance companies for non-treatment and diagnoses. There is a lot of responsibility that comes with diagnosing and treating someone when there is the prospect of misdiagnosis and mistreatment. The solution to what IIIIII am talking about involves primary care folks actually taking care of their patients. 'Growing a pair,' if you will. 
 
Brutus, you make interesting and valid points but come on man, you can't expect people tp give credence to what a private insurance company's CEO thinks.

It would be really cool if there were health care professionals on here to weigh in on this. I can only speak as a patient and some people on here only speak as condescending know-it-alls/policy wonks.

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by David

Yeah he's trying to justify his existence. 

I pose a SERIOUS question for anyone who thinks America's healthcare system is superior to that of other countries due to so-called privatized medicine: Why the F---k are all of the top hospitals in America AND non-profit? Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins. Cleveland Clinic did the first face transplant brought to us in part by your insurance premium and co-pay? Get the f-- out of here with that. The federal government (thankfully) provides billions upon billions of dollars in federal grants to deserving institutions.
 

Edited June 17, 20213 yr by David

1 hour ago, David said:

I pose a SERIOUS question for anyone who thinks America's healthcare system is superior to that of other countries due to so-called privatized medicine: Why the F---k are all of the top hospitals in America AND non-profit? Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins. Cleveland Clinic did the first face transplant brought to us in part by your insurance premium and co-pay? Get the f-- out of here with that. The federal government (thankfully) provides billions upon billions of dollars in federal grants to deserving institutions.
 

I think regardless of what path the us chooses with their system there are going to be trade offs. Maybe a more robust primary care system will be better, but at the same time it will most likely involve sacrificing some of the cutting edge medicine and treatments and the ability to see high end specialists in a timely manner. 
On the flip side, while having a robust specialist system and some of the most innovative healthcare in the world is nice, it obviously falls short when it does not adequately treat preventable conditions and allows them to exacerbate into problems that need a specialist. The catch 22

Why does awesome primary care mean less R&D?  No one has given a straight answer on it. As I've  stated, the top research hospitals, Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins, get billions of dollars in federal aid. They don't make major breakthroughs from your co-pays. Tell me more, please. For the love of God, tell me me more! I'm so interested, it's quite fascinating because those are definitely public non-profit hospitals in the U.S.

 

Edited June 18, 20213 yr by David

My little rant wasn't meant to be politicized. Now you've p!ssed me off.

19 minutes ago, David said:

Why does awesome primary care mean less R&D?  No one has given a straight answer on it. As I've  stated, the top research hospitals, Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins, get billions of dollars in federal aid. They don't make major breakthroughs from your co-pays. Tell me more, please. For the love of God, tell me me more! I'm so interested, it's quite fascinating because those are definitely public non-profit hospitals in the U.S.

 

I think that hospitals like the Clinic, while "non-profit" are not exactly "non-profit" Their research arms have developed many advances in techonology that have been commericalized in the for profit world. many of their execs have interests in these "for profit" businesses. In addition,, there is a lot of self dealing that occurs in some of these "non-profits" with for profit counterparts. 

Absolutely no one knows wtf you're talking about. You're going to have to be a little more specific..regarding....whatever...point...you're...making...

I just want to give a shout out to Brutus_Buckeye, his co-pay from his last visit wherein we addressed his irritating hemorrhoid, made these stem-cell and plasma injections into other men's shoulders entirely possible at the Cleveland Clinic, repairing rotator cuffs with no signs of even prior damage. Hats off to you, Brutus. You're a scholar, a gentleman and a great American. Give it up one more time for Brutus "I gladly pay ALL the co-pays" Buckeye!

 

In other words, Brutus_buckeye, you got some 'splainin to do. Come on man, you can't say all of that, making 'far out there' claims without hard core facts to back it up. I don't need facts for my point. I at least have opinions based on my own real, anecdotal stories. You're politicizing this with nothing but extremely vague conspiracy theories. If you don't think health care is absolutely f---ed in this country, you haven't had to see a doctor in a long time.

Edited June 18, 20213 yr by David

19 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

  The US medical system is really a specialist system. It provides the best specialized healthcare in the world, which is why everyone comes to the US for specialized medical services. The world class research and development of procedures and practices that occurs in the US is not able to be duplicated by the other countries who have socialized medicine. 

 

By "everyone" coming to the US you mean the ultra wealthy citizens (think of the Kingdom of Saud 747s parked at CLE Hopkins), and some moderately well-to-do Canadians who buy private insurance here for specialties (and pay higher rates than US citizens--so our US healthcare companies love them).    

 

You are correct that much of the burden of research falls on the US, but that is not unlike other industries.   The military hardware specialty comes to mind.   If we had a national healthcare system, the government would negotiate lower prices (as they do in other countries), and probably also have to contribute more research dollars.   The net results for citizens would be better health.  

5 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

You are correct that much of the burden of research falls on the US, but that is not unlike other industries.   The military hardware specialty comes to mind.   If we had a national healthcare system, the government would negotiate lower prices (as they do in other countries), and probably also have to contribute more research dollars.   The net results for citizens would be better health. 

There would be tradeoffs, both good and bad. Primary health would certainly get better. Specialty care may suffer. 

While I certainly prefer a more market based system, I will not stand here and tell you that the current model is the best things can be and that it does not have its problems.  Any discussion over healthcare should at least acknowldege the tradeoffs that would be required by moving to a more socialized system vs less socialized. At the same time, the discussion should also admit that the current system is far from great and has many problems most specifically, cost.