I like the concept...hate the building.  I know it's only a preliminary design/rendering so no need to remind me about that.  My opinion based on this is that it looks like something you'd see at Universal Studios Orlando....blah.

It will be closed 3 years after opening... double negative for that disgusting parking lot... does that make it positive?

It will be closed 3 years after opening... double negative for that disgusting parking lot... does that make it positive?

 

jeez! this is one imaginative and undisciplined conversation. can we be serious? sorry to ruin the fun.. but i think this deserves more credit than you are giving it.

 

thats not a rendering, everyone, its a cartoon. there is no way you can go forth with a design from that sketch.. so relax. That doesnt even look like it could be made into a building!

 

parking lot sucks, yea.. but its a million times better than what it is now! its even a parking lot now. who knows what they will do with what is now drawn in as a parking lot if there is interest in developing it. if there isnt.. then what do you want them to do with it? if there is no interest in a garage, or restaurant, or building etc. 

 

this is an instance where a walkway is going to do more good than harm. Tell me what street life ppl will miss if this building were to be built? its an intersection! there is nothing for this walkway to take away from.. only one road! relax. just because its a walkway doesnt mean "oh shame on them its taking away from the city life!" This one would only help bolster the rock hall as an attraction.

 

the idea is there. i like the lively scene. now he needs better design on that building, and possibly work out a deal with stark and develop the area around it too. then we have a major plus. however i still see it as a good thing.

Yes it is a rendering.

Yes it is a rendering.

 

i didnt mean to say it wasn't an actual rendering, just that its not a good one. and it looks cartoony.. thats all.

 

Hi all,

 

I drove by the Rock Hall yesterday to see what the fuss was all about. I saw a fence around the Navy and Marine Reserve Center at 9th and North Marginal road. Doesn't look like it includes the Coast Guard Station or the Arm Corp of Engineers headquarters. I checking with former coworkers at DFAS-CL who check with Coast Guard workers who said the station hasn't found a place to move, yet. Warm nuzzles and bear hugz to all.

 

Jim S.

 

 

 

thanks jim. i was left wondering if the coast guard station was on the move. guess not. the jane campbell site would be ok....anything to save it!!

 

Hi all,

 

After the center is gone there won't be much room for the Rocometer. Hopefully it is a start of something useful and beneficial to all. Warm nuzzles and bear hugz.

 

Jim S.

 

 

 

It's a jarring difference to the Rock Hall design but I like it. I'm thinking if they deep six the Rockometer name (it's not needed) everything would be fine. What's wrong with the parking lot? Nothing.  And I love the boardwalk.  So cartoonish or not, it's not too bad.

What's wrong with the parking lot? Nothing. 

 

What's right with having a parking lot on prime lakefront space?  Present your case, I'm all ears.

well I doubt they are going to make it a condominium behind the rockometer;  I'm a public transportation freak so I could be open to shuttles from the pkg lots closer to burke but there have been times when a bunch of us have gone in one car to attend something like the chili cook off and there is no pkg. I'm not a fan of pkg lots I just don't think it's of a scale that makes it look bad.  When the day comes that everyone can use public transportation from all points a pkg lot is easier to tear down than a bldg. Plus they could put up a small food establishment back there too. I just don't see it as awful.

so driving to an outlying station or taking a bus then transfer to reach the east night station is bad?

 

Now I totally "hear" and understand where your coming from when you say

When the day comes that everyone can use public transportation from all points a pkg lot is easier to tear down than a bldg.

 

I still think that any further parking lots in that area is overkill.

I could not agree more, build a scalable hood in and around the coast guard, nothing huge because you need to fill it.  Boston backbay with rowhouses like the ones on Prospect (20-40th streets?)  Parking lots as apart of NEW thinking downtown=wrong direction.

 

 

from coolcleveland email blast this morning

 

Rockometer update

Christopher Axelrod, who is organizing the effort to build a 2000-seat special events center on the abandoned US Coast Guard property across E. 9th Street from the Rock Hall, reports that their "9/25 press conference has been canceled by the city and we were ordered not to hold it on their properties. The city chooses not to endorse it at this time..." How sadly predictable. However, he has received strong support from other visionaries in the region. Your thoughts?

Maybe the effort has raised enough attention that the city has seen plans for something bigger and better (just wishful thinking) :)

I think it isnt a bad concept, but it just seems Cleveland has so many venues already that are underutilized....  Public/Music Hall...?  Maybe not set up for what he was trying to do though. 

I am suprised no one has noticed the activity on East 9th.  I have a great view of the coast Gaurd Station from the 23rd floor on the Federal Building and it is currently being demolished.  I had a friend snap a photo, but our computers have security restrictions so I wont be able to post it for some time.  (Cough: May Day get to work)

 

Hi all,

 

ciccolmt, take another look, that isn't the Coast Guard Station being demolished. It's the former Navy Marine Corps Reserve Center that is coming down. Warm nuzzles and bear hugz to all.

 

Jim S.

 

 

 

So it is.

 

Is it going to be a surface parking lot?

The demolition being done isn't really anything to look at anyway, most of the building is still there. Give it a few more days to let it come halfway down and it'll be nice and photogenic. Progress, ain't it great? :wink:

I know its been a while and it doesn't seem like this would really happen but they added to the vision with something called music-legacy plaza to be on the north part of the Rock-O-Meter.

 

 

 

 

1. MUSIC LEGACY PLAZA OVERVIEW:

Music Legacy Plaza is designed to be a very special place that can be accessed via air, land and lake. Its focus is not about mere rock nostalgia but, much like The Rockometer itself, celebrates and combines retro reflections with the latest and greatest of offerings to further enhance the area rock experience with impressive branding while serving as a significant attraction.

 

2. SITE DESIGN:

The site design is intended to excite and accommodate all area museum tourism, transient boaters and local fans alike. Weekly special events like car cruises, bike rallies, boat shows, musical events and so much more can be programmed here. The goal is to attract and sustain a wider demographic of patrons to this area via their respective interests. From live entertainment to an incredible themed restaurant combined with unique retail as inspired by LA and NYC, Music Legacy Plaza offers it all. Music Legacy Plaza would be considered as an extension of The Rockometer and under the management of the Rockometer. In harmony with the characteristics of the large record in the plaza of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum now positioned between a turntable and retro juke box, Music Legacy Plaza offers the names Skip, Flip, Scratch and Spin in true thematic disc style. The modern performance gazebo located in the center provides both the lights and sounds to set the plaza mood and keep the city and area alive with vitality.

Designed for performances in the round, this gazebo stage can easily facilitate most any size or style. From a full gospel choir to a single DJ, the “legacy of music” is celebrated for all to enjoy under the impressive

Christopher G Axelrod Productions LLC

Music Legacy Plaza

 

3

bold lighting. Themed weddings and rallies are also welcomed. The possibilities for using the gazebo stage are endless. This state of the art stage would be weather proofed for performances. The entire gazebo would be completely secured and wrapped during the dormant winter season.

 

4. BUILDING DESCRIPTIONS:

SKIP: Skip’s Mega Grill is much more than the usual family restaurant. It is designed to be a one of a kind attraction to thrill diners. Under the inviting classic red neon sign there will be largest indoor grill anywhere in the world. The flat grill is twenty five feet in length serving as the center of attraction for showcasing this classic American style of dining. The chefs as fun personalities will both entertain and prepare over 50 types of incredible classic hot sandwiches and sides right off the grill before your eyes. Have you ever experienced a hot grilled salad? Juke box music will keep the legacy of classic rock hits in the background. Video cameras with audio mounted above the chefs and grill with monitors positioned throughout the dining area will keep the entertainment hot and fun for diners. Diners can actually text their chef! This modern “grill to thrill” features only quality American fair and healthy items served up in rockin style. No typical rock decor or 50’s diner themes at Skip’s Mega Grill. There will be a full size second floor outdoor deck for those perfect Northcoast dining days, special gatherings and lakefront photo opportunities. Skip’s Mega Grill is all about the food and fun for a meal experience that you will rave about, found only in Cleveland. FLIP: Flip is exactly what you will do when you shop this incredible offering of new and used vintage and rare musical instruments: No lessons, starters or posers here. This store is for serious musicians only. Rare instrument trades and consignments will accommodate and thrill musicians as well as inspire future stars. You never know what will “flip” next at this exclusive retail offering in the rock and roll capital.

 

It goes on and on ....

http://www.therockometer.com/music-legacy-plaza.pdf

http://www.therockometer.com/

Music Legacy Plaza looks an awful lot like surface parking to me.  And the rest looks like a strip mall, albeit one with potentially interesting shops. 

This whole thing looks pretty awful.

I've been torn over this one.  I like the idea to liven up the North Coast, but it looks like a cartoon.  I guess it's too cartoony.  I do like the docks and the specialty music shops though.  And I'm pretty sure that plaza is a parking lot, look at parking spaces.  Just tone down the cheese.

C'mon, it has a Skip's Mega Grill.  We need one of those.

This could be interesting.

I like the idea ... its fun and exciting (especially for Cleveland)

I like the idea ... its fun and exciting (especially for Cleveland)

 

It's whimsical.  It adds street life and give the area some life.  This is a project that might start of slow but evolve into something unique that offers something for all.  Especially kids.  Downtown isn't exactly kid friendly and this is a start.

I like the idea ... its fun and exciting (especially for Cleveland)

 

It's whimsical. It adds street life and give the area some life. This is a project that might start of slow but evolve into something unique that offers something for all. Especially kids. Downtown isn't exactly kid friendly and this is a start.

 

Very good points.  I hadn't thought of it that way.  Normally I think all family-friendly stuff is overkill, but downtown does need more destinations for kids.

I don't think there's enough stores there to act as a draw.

But the draw is the Rockometer, don't you see?  OK... now I'm almost back to not liking this.  That was fast.  I guess I'm ambivalent.

Id rather see Skip's on the north side of the plaza with the entrance at the northwest corner and the outdoor dining actually on the lake. The walkway between the restaurant and the lake is fine, but i just think it should be closer to the lake.

It does have a nice flare though, very colorful.  There is too much in Cleveland that is white or black or shades in between.  Nothing eye catching.  This could help with that.

 

Of course, this is coming from someone that was so excited to see those flaming E 4th statue pieces come about over the summer.  Colorful and interesting.  It's just something that is seldom seen downtown.

It looks like something from the Cedar Point midway.  No thanks.

It looks like something from the Cedar Point midway.  No thanks.

 

Exactly.  It's an "image" of a destination that is loved by all.  It's got a built in "safe" and "family friendly" mindset.

Well, I wouldn't go too far with the family friendly component.  No further than is represented in that picture.  Family friendly works for tourism in a handful of fully-themed places, like Sandusky or Orlando, but it doesn't do well in a place where most of the entertainment targets adults--a place like Las Vegas or downtown Cleveland. 

 

I've never liked the placement of the rock hall or the science center, partially because they have two entirely different audiences.  There is no synergy to be gained from having them side by side.  My biggest reservation about this Rockometer is that it might further reduce the rock hall's legitimacy by over-sanitizing the subject matter.  I'm glad we have the science center downtown as a kid-friendly attraction, and we need more of them.  I just don't think they should be tied in with the rock hall.

Well, I wouldn't go too far with the family friendly component.  No further than is represented in that picture.  Family friendly works for tourism in a handful of fully-themed places, like Sandusky or Orlando, but it doesn't do well in a place where most of the entertainment targets adults--a place like Las Vegas or downtown Cleveland. 

 

I've never liked the placement of the rock hall or the science center, partially because they have two entirely different audiences.  There is no synergy to be gained from having them side by side.  My biggest reservation about this Rockometer is that it might further reduce the rock hall's legitimacy by over-sanitizing the subject matter.  I'm glad we have the science center downtown as a kid-friendly attraction, and we need more of them.  I just don't think they should be tied in with the rock hall.

 

Ummm HELLO, that what this project should be.  changing attitudes and thinking outside the box.  Sheesh!  If you young folks can't see that...there is not hope! 

 

And having this venue next to the RNRHOF in no way reduces it's significance.  You're over analyzing things. LAWD!

I think it's a good idea.  Beggers can't be overly-selective choosers. 

I think it's a good idea.  Beggers can't be overly-selective choosers. 

 

I do too.  Its a step into turning an area with potential into a hit.

 

When families come down and see how "safe" and how much fun their kids have, it changes their perception of the area.

I don't think it's a case of being "overly selective choosers".  One of his selling points is a hot-grilled salad served with rock n' roll attitude.  This project would be an embarrassment located in such a prominent area.

I don't think it's a case of being "overly selective choosers".  One of his selling points is a hot-grilled salad served with rock n' roll attitude.  This project would be an embarrassment located in such a prominent area.

 

How so???  The idea is fun and escapism. It's not meant to be serious.

 

Since you don't like this, what are you planning on building instead?

My question is what would do better at this location?  This rockometer idea or an aquarium?  Should this land be reserved for a RRHOF spin off or would an aquarium be a good use of the land?

I'm sorry, but this thing is just, I don't know...  stupid.  It doesn't even deserve a serious response.

I don't think a special event venue, which is what I understand the rockometer (awful name) to be, is a good idea.  Something that draws people all year round, like an aquarium, is a much better idea.  Then they visit the rock hall and the science center in one fell swoop.

 

Personally, I think it would be nice if something unique could be built, like a "science" center or "aquarium" but centered around farming, which is a big part of our state.  Imagine holding Farm Aid here.  *dreams*  Seems much more a good match for Ohio than pushing rock and roll, which doesn't really have that much to do with us, historically beyond one DJ.  I mean, do we have a musical rock history like Nashville or Chicago blues or whatever?  No.  Yes, a lot of great bands and musicians have come from here, but it's not like when people think of country music and think Nashville, so I say marry the two - music and what we really can still be known for, our agriculture, and make it farm-oriented. 

I actually like the legacy plaza idea, but I think the rockometer thing is a little ridiculous.  It would be neat to have some rock themed shops and a bar/grill right on the lake with a boardwalk/plaza and a little performance stage.  It could lead to some great events in the summer months.  I think these items would be perfect along the walkway between the rock hall and the science center.  They could face the lake and give people from both attractions shops to visit and a place to eat on the lake.  You could then build a performance stage facing the rock hall plaza where various bands could perform on summer weekends.  Then put the aquarium where they want to put the rockometer.

 

Probably all pipe dreams, but fun to think about anyway.

I'm sorry, but this thing is just, I don't know... stupid. It doesn't even deserve a serious response.

 

I don't know if it's stupid as much as it's tacky. Why does Cleveland have to settle for something like this on prime lakefront land? I know I'm making judgments based on very preliminary sketches, but I do not have faith in these guys to put together something great based on their crappy website. Something like this belongs in Wildwood, NJ, not in Cleveland.

 

I would much rather see this area become a mini-museum destination, with an aquarium or something more along those lines .. kinda like in Chicago.

I give this a .01% chance of ever moving forward.

Personally I'm sick of placing museums and other attractions along the lakefront that have little to no effect on downtown core foot traffic.  Just because Baltimore put an aquarium on their waterfront doesn't mean that it absolutley should go there.  The lakefront should be left for residential and mixed use development, not singular buildings that could really be more successful in other areas.

Not sure what the problem is with putting these assets in the middle of the city to create overlapping and consistent foot traffic to utilize what is already there.  Look at cities like Florence Italy or New York City, their museums are all part of the urban fabric, where tourists intermingle with residents and others just going about their daily life.  I can only imagine how much more successful this city would be if the museums of University Circle and the lakefront were a part of Downtown.

Personally I'm sick of placing museums and other attractions along the lakefront that have little to no effect on downtown core foot traffic.  Just because Baltimore put an aquarium on their waterfront doesn't mean that it absolutley should go there.  The lakefront should be left for residential and mixed use development, not singular buildings that could really be more successful in other areas.

Not sure what the problem is with putting these assets in the middle of the city to create overlapping and consistent foot traffic to utilize what is already there.  Look at cities like Florence Italy or New York City, their museums are all part of the urban fabric, where tourists intermingle with residents and others just going about their daily life.  I can only imagine how much more successful this city would be if the museums of University Circle and the lakefront were a part of Downtown.

 

Agreed, although I like having the strong second node at UC.  However the lakefront should have neighborhoods and the attractions should all be more central.