There's an article on crainscleveland.com that talks about Eaton's plans to build a new HQ in the flats on the "rocks".  I was just curious if anyone has the ability to post this article online here?

 

 

There's an article on crainscleveland.com that talks about Eaton's plans to build a new HQ in the flats on the "rocks".  I was just curious if anyone has the ability to post this article online here?

 

 

 

I would like to second that request. Anyone out there with a crainscleveland.com subscription?

I have the print edition and I'll try to summarize it as best I can.

 

Basically, the article states how there are growing concerns over Eaton's plans to relocate to the East Bank of the Flats.  The article was quick to say that this is more than just a rumor since it has been reported by a number of different people. 

 

The two areas of growing concern are as follows:

 

Direct quotes, "The deal to move to the Flats is foundering because the city of Cleveland won't change the way it defines income for municipal income tax purposes."

 

and

 

"Eaton's move to the Flats is hung up because the Port Authority can't assure the company how the waterfront surrounding the potential Eaton site will be redeveloped."  The article goes on to quote an unnamed source who states that, apparently, Eaton wants both the concrete silos and the waterfront line removed before agreeing to the move.  Both are evidently perceived as eyesores.

 

Most worrisome is that the article mentions that if plans fall through for the East bank, the two leading sites they will consider are Mentor and Highland Hills.

Most worrisome is that the article mentions that if plans fall through for the East bank, the two leading sites they will consider are Mentor and Highland Hills.

 

Most worrisome is that the article mentions that if plans fall through for the East bank, the two leading sites they will consider are Mentor and Highland Hills.

 

 

I agree, but it could be worse, at least the other options are still in NE Ohio.

Erm, they want the waterfront line REMOVED?  Like, eliminated?  Man alive is there a disconnect in the way people view things.  Almost everyone on this board who had an opinion about it thought that the Eaton design ITSELF was an eyesore.

Most worrisome is that the article mentions that if plans fall through for the East bank, the two leading sites they will consider are Mentor and Highland Hills.

 

 

Hey... Mentor's nice.  For a burb.

 

Some people might be from there!

 

;)

"Eaton's move to the Flats is hung up because the Port Authority can't assure the company how the waterfront surrounding the potential Eaton site will be redeveloped." The article goes on to quote an unnamed source who states that, apparently, Eaton wants both the concrete silos and the waterfront line removed before agreeing to the move. Both are evidently perceived as eyesores.

 

I see their point when it comes to the concrete silos: I wouldn't want to build a big beautiful new building that looks out on the lakefront and have them blocking my view.

 

However, the waterfront line was, according to some rendering or another I've seen, be moved to wrap around their building. Is this saying that they don't want that? Or that they think the waterfront line in its current location and configuration is the problem?

Who gives a shit if people are from Mentor?

 

I know that Eaton would still benefit the region as a whole, and that's important. But it would be a huge loss for Cleveland, and that's not something Cleveland needs right now.

Who gives a sh!t if people are from Mentor?

 

Relax.  I was talking to the doc and her throw-up smiley.

Who gives a sh!t if people are from Mentor?

 

Relax. I was talking to the doc and her throw-up smiley.

 

I would've put a throw-up smiley for any company looking to move from downtown to any 'burb, not specifically Eaton or Mentor.  :-D

This is a set up. I doubt Eaton has ever been serious about a downtown location. Eaton is using Wolstein for bargaining purposes. They're want a campus, instead of a single, high-rise office building. Pretty hard if your in a downtown, even on the fringe of it. They wanted to move the loop, now they want to eliminate it. They want the port moved, they want the silo's gone. What they want is a tree line boulevard in the burbs.

 

They will continue to make demands that cannot be met, and use the local port authority and city as the fall guys.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080915/SUB1/809129950/1071&Profile=1071

 

In move to Flats, what does Eaton want?

Rumors abound about company’s desire for key income tax change, revamping of waterfront

 

By JAY MILLER

 

4:30 am, September 15, 2008

 

 

 

This newspaper is loathe to publish gossip and rumor.

 

However, over many months from nearly a dozen people, Crain’s reporters and editors have run into real estate brokers, public officials and others who drop their voices and say, in one form or another, “I can’t tell you where I heard this, and you can’t quote me, but I hear the plans for Eaton to build a new headquarters downtown are on the rocks because …”

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

^So nothing in there about moving/removing the waterfront line... that's good news.  I thought it was ridiculous that Eaton would want the line removed or even moved.  I thought the waterfront line (with the added station) is what made the site so attractive in the first place... along with the other development in the area of course.

Flee...looks like you got the folks worked up for nothing!    :whip:

what exactly did i misinterpret? everything I said was pulled directly from the article :?

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080915/SUB1/809129950/1071&Profile=1071

 

“The deal to move to the Flats is foundering because the city of Cleveland won’t change the way it defines income for municipal income tax purposes.”

 

Or: “Eaton’s move to the Flats is hung up because the Port Authority can’t assure the company how the waterfront surrounding the potential Eaton site will be redeveloped.”

 

If a new headquarters isn’t built in the Flats, some people have said, the company will build a new headquarters in Mentor or at Chagrin Highlands in Highland Hills.

 

Some say Eaton wants an assurance that the silos would be moved out of view of its planned headquarters and the rapid tracks moved away before it will commit to the Flats.

I think it sounded SLIGHTLY more official in your paraphrasing of it. I dunno.

 

But your paraphrasing was very accurate.

Wanting the rapid tracks moved away is different than wanting the rapid tracks removed.

Question.....what 'view' are those cement silos blocking? Ontario Stone? Cargill Salt? The waterworks? The lake is north of there and the skyline is behind them.....whatever.

Question.....what 'view' are those cement silos blocking? Ontario Stone? Cargill Salt? The waterworks? The lake is north of there and the skyline is behind them.....whatever.

 

How about blue sky?  :wink:

 

Really they're not going to block the view of much of anything attractive, but they're certainly not attractive looking themselves, and everything behind them would be much further away.

"I see their point when it comes to the concrete silos: I wouldn't want to build a big beautiful new building that looks out on the lakefront and have them blocking my view."

 

I think something neat could be done with those silos, who knows?  If that neighborhood pushes north and takes the port space and north of browns stadium those silos could make for a cool club or other use.  Also I wouldnt trust this quote:

"As for Eaton considering options in the suburbs, Mentor community development director Ron Traub said he has had no conversations about a corporate headquarters coming to his community."

The silos are relatively new - maybe 10 years old, give or take.

Perhaps this is where Cleveland Public Art should step in.

I always liked Starks proposal before developing the east bank which seems so detached at the moment. Stark's plan seems more logical right now. Once they fill in the "voids", perhaps the lakefront will be developed north of the flats as well.

I am not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about Eaton.  Hopefully, they are using the threat (if that is the right word?) of moving to the suburbs to get a better deal from the Wolsteins.

 

In this era of high gas prices (and only going to go higher), what company in their right mind would want to move out of the CBD?

 

1. Moving out to suburbs would force most of their employees to drive.  So, public transportation would not be an option and I am sure many of the employees already take public transportation to save costs.

2. Employees that live on the West Side would end up having a long and difficult commute everyday and I am sure that some of them would leave the company.

 

My first choice for Eaton would be a signature tower at Public Square which would be good for their image.  But, this is probably not a viable option since they want an office campus.

 

So, my next choice would be the Warehouse district.  The renderings of the buildings seem to fit Eaton's desires since there could be a green space on top of the low rise buildings between the two higher buildings.  This could be a great space for their employees and some of it could be enclosed in an atrium for winter use.

http://www.cleveland.com/realtimenews/index.ssf/2008/09/eaton_likely_to_move_to_chagri.html

 

Not going to lie...this stings.

)(#&$&*@^#^%#*&$^(#^!^#%&*#$

Richard Jacobs remains a destructive force to the viability of this region.  Thanks, Dick.

ouch

Fucking a.

 

You have GOT to be kidding me. I can't believe this at all. What a horrible loss to the city.

We as urban dreamers need to protest.  Someone write a letter to whoever is keeping them from staying...phone call...anything.  This just cannot happen if youw ant to build a thriving downtown area.  Anything we can do?

I would think there would have to be some major, major incentives thrown at them to keep them in Cleveland. Not sure if the city/Wolsteins can do something like what they would need at this point to stay.

 

But maybe I'm being too pessimistic?

Unreal.

 

I know from someone that works in the Clinic buildings, on the former site of MBNA, that the tax breaks afforded to the Clinic were extremely favorable.  I imagine that a similar arrangement is being made with Eaton, that, no doubt, supersedes any tangible benefits of remaining downtown, at least in the minds of the decision-makers.

 

 

At least that CEO probably has a shorter commute.  I'm sure he lives in Hunting Valley somewhere.  Straight shot down South Woodland. 

 

What did the city do wrong.  I don't think it's "What did Wolstien do wrong, or what did Jacob's do right".  I'm sure Jacob's would have loved to out them in their new tower on Public Square versus Chagrin Highlands.  Heck Chagrin Highlands is doing great right now with all of the additions to the site in recent years.  This reflects poorly on Cleveland politics, not Jacobs. 

ouch. The question is did they use FEB as a bargaining chip with Chagrin Highlands?

This is so frustrating. I really wish they didn't have this kind of bargaining power OVER the city .. because then this big corporation can do whatever the fuck they want.

 

No one should be able to push the city around like that. I'd rather they just left than the city bowed to their every whim, to be quite honest. Fuck them. If they wanna leave so badly, they should leave. I understand they hold all these jobs, but at the end of the day, the city can't bow to a corporation like that.

Does anyone in here know anybody important enough to at least be heard out on an arguement?  Honestly this is absolutely crippling.  All that hard work put into this downtown area over the last few years and we lose 600 workers and a fortune 500 company.  This hurts everything from residential to places like teresas pizza and jimmy johns. 

A part of me hopes that their business shrinks to the point where they don't need a new office space and just stay where they are. A bit harsh but a part of me feels like this and on the other hand I'm thinking at least it is still in the region and not out of the state.

A part of me hopes that their business shrinks to the point where they don't need a new office space and just stay where they are. A bit harsh but a part of me feels like this and on the other hand I'm thinking at least it is still in the region and not out of the state.

 

That IS true. It will still benefit the region, which is good. But Cleveland the city is bleeding jobs right now. And that is not, in any way, good.

Thats true but if you envision a bustling downtown area with crowded streets, losing this company just removed all hope...for right now.  Lets see what the biotech cos. can do

As much as it hurts me to say, there isn't much we can do to keep them from moving.

 

But it's clear that this region's business leaders don't care much what happens to the City of Cleveland. They apparently don't see their role in keeping the core city viable and why that's so important to the viability of the region. If it does move, Eaton will have eroded the ability of Cleveland to maintain its infrastructure and to provide services to residents, especially the poor. That will cause more desperation, disinvestment and accelerate poverty's momentum.

 

If anything, Cleveland's business leaders' (and increasingly those throughout America) version of corporate responsibility is "every one for themselves." And sadly, that transcends all the way down to the little guy on the street who wonders how his city keeps eroding away, piece by piece. Unfortunately, he too must increasingly fend for himself.

 

This isn't just a bad day for Cleveland. It's a bad day for this country, too.

ouch. The question is did they use FEB as a bargaining chip with Chagrin Highlands?

 

I doubt that.  If they WANTED to stay downtown, I am sure they would of used the FEB as a bargaining chip for Jacobs other property (Public Square). 

Thats true but if you envision a bustling downtown area with crowded streets, losing this company just removed all hope...for right now. Lets see what the biotech cos. can do

 

I think that's a little over the top.  It certainly hurts.  But I don't think that 550 office workers ends all hope for vitality in a Downtown with 120-130k office workers, 10,000 and growing residents, numerous entertainment options, and hopefully in the near future some decent retail.

This coupled with the loss of the Federation means nearly 600 jobs will be moving from downtown to Beachwood. As much as I hated that corporate campus idea, this is just heart wrenching.

 

Edit 700 jobs  :x

I agree with that,  X...I also dont know how many of those 550 eaton workers are actually YUP's that would even live downtown.  The story says that they are "likely" to move to beachwood...the PD has been known to screw up stories before.  This would be a huge paycheck for wolstein, maybe he can work some magic.

Thats true but if you envision a bustling downtown area with crowded streets, losing this company just removed all hope...for right now. Lets see what the biotech cos. can do

 

I think that's a little over the top. It certainly hurts. But I don't think that 550 office workers ends all hope for vitality in a Downtown with 120-130k office workers, 10,000 and growing residents, numerous entertainment options, and hopefully in the near future some decent retail.

 

Yeah, I have to agree with X.  the main thing this hurts is the Forbes list that details the number of Fortune 500 companies located in America's Cities.  That's all.  Eaton represents about .4% of employees working in downtown Cleveland, so I don't see Teresa's Pizza closing for that.  I get the point though, Eaton today, who's next.  This makes it obvious that it is more economically feasible to do business in Beachwood.

Until there is a change in leadership in that town, Cleveland will continue to be what it is.. and it's not just Jackson.. the town hasn't had a good mayor since Voinovich.

Having done consulting stints in dozens of "Eaton type" HQs over the years, the sad truth is that the average HQ employee probably views a move to a campus type setting at a place like Chagrin Highlands as a very positive move. Easy on/off the expressway, plenty a parking, numerous chain retail/restaurants in the vicinity and perceived "safe" surroundings.

Until there is a change in leadership in that town, Cleveland will continue to be what it is.. and it's not just Jackson.. the town hasn't had a good mayor since Voinovich.

You can't put this entire thing on Jackson's shoulders. I'm sure he did whatever he could. Downtown Cleveland is no corporate office park. It is obvious that is what they wanted from the beginning.

 

 

i agree with what believeland just pointed out.  All the story says is "likely" and "leading canidate".  So let's hold out.  Also, I don't believe Wolstein is involved with the negotiations.  Right now it is still about the land (which the port owns) and the tax structure (which the city controls)... and I'll just say this, as I do know someone very intimately involved on the city end of things (whom I have not asked about this in a few weeks).  They had mentioned to me a while back that the sticking point in the negotiations was some tax thing involving retirement accounts.  Of course I didn't know exactly what it was they were talking about until the crain's article the other day that seems to have hit the nail on the head.  But to those who say city pols getting in the way and what not, understand how precarious a negotiation like this is.  I'm sure there are many who will say... "yeah, but isn't 550 peoples taxes at a lesser amount better than no taxes?"  It would seem like logic.  But think about it.  If the city of Cleveland rewrites this tax rule for Eaton... Don't you think other corporations are going to demand the same deal?  And at somewhere between 110,000 and 130,000 downtown workers, don't you think that might be a pretty difficult pill to swallow.  As in more catastrophic than the loss of 550 jobs?  Not to mention the same corporations in the circle and other Cleveland Neighborhoods that will want this. Just something to chew on.

 

  And regardless, like I said, this is still a lot of "likely" and "leading".  We'll see how it shakes out.  If I hear anything new that I can post I'll let you know.

In addition to the 120-130k workers in downtown I'm sure there are some workers working in the University Circle area that will continue to move to the downtown area which will continue to bring life to the streets.

 

Sure the University Circle area workers are not in Downtown but a decent amount of people who work there go to downtown after work whether they live there or not. Seriously the Clinic just added about 1,500 jobs and University Hospital is adding another 1,200 permanent jobs on top of their 5,000 temp jobs during construction height within the next couple years. I think the atmosphere and attitude in this city due to Eaton's move will cause more damage then the jobs will.

 

Quick question, no matter where they move, what are they going to do with the current site Eaton is at and what type of office space is in the Eaton building currently?