freethink, I understand your point, and agree with your sentiments but like the cities we discuss, this forum doesn't exist in a bubble. It's not just about the developments/projects that appeal to us.

And I think it's easier to commute to downtown Cleveland compared to some cross-town commuting. I-480 has gotten to be pretty ridiculous between I-77 and I-271 in both directions.

 

Word.  When I was looking for jobs, I wanted nothing to do with a commute on 480 between 77 and 271.  I think my reverse commute to Akron will be faster than trying to go from downtown to Bedford or Solon during rush hour.

No, we shouldn't delete this thread or the AG thread. They are investing in Cuyahoga County rather than leaving the region altogether like TRW, Office Max, MBNA, and countless others have. Obviously a downtown development would have been ideal but you restricting our discussion because you're unhappy with their site selection is wrong! I'm with you on downtown but come on, I'm sick of seeing F500's leave NE Ohio and these 2 stayed, albeit in a different part of the metro.

Word.  When I was looking for jobs, I wanted nothing to do with a commute on 480 between 77 and 271.  I think my reverse commute to Akron will be faster than trying to go from downtown to Bedford or Solon during rush hour.

 

I find that hard to believe.  First, it isn't a reverse commute once you get closer to Akron.  Second, although 480 is definitely a pain in the ass because there's about 3 miles of awful traffic, unless something unusual is going on, the times I've had to commute from Ohio City to 271 and Chagrin at around 8 am (via 90/490/77/480/271) it has never taken me over 35 minutes (it's about 25 with no traffic, and you can make it in that time if you leave before 7:30 or so).  The only slow part of the trip is 480 between about Granger and Warrensville Center.  Also, in the evenings it rarely takes me over 30 min, and usually closer to 25 (for some reason the traffic usually isn't as bad heading eastbound).  Yes, it's busy in that stretch, and yes it slows down pretty much every day to a crawl for a little bit, but it really doesn't cost that much time.

 

The traffic around Cleveland is generally not bad at all compared to what most people think of as heavy traffic.  Unfortunately, I think this is part of why it's hard to convince more people that we need to upgrade our public transportation system.

I'm with you on downtown but come on, I'm sick of seeing F500's leave NE Ohio and these 2 stayed, albeit in a different part of the metro.

 

Agree.  I work Beachwood.  I'd much rather the office be downtown, but it's also much better that I can work for the company in Beachwood than not be able to work for them at all (if they were located in a whole different city).

Word.  When I was looking for jobs, I wanted nothing to do with a commute on 480 between 77 and 271.  I think my reverse commute to Akron will be faster than trying to go from downtown to Bedford or Solon during rush hour.

 

I find that hard to believe.  First, it isn't a reverse commute once you get closer to Akron.  Second, although 480 is definitely a pain in the ass because there's about 3 miles of awful traffic, unless something unusual is going on, the times I've had to commute from Ohio City to 271 and Chagrin at around 8 am (via 90/490/77/480/271) it has never taken me over 35 minutes (it's about 25 with no traffic, and you can make it in that time if you leave before 7:30 or so).  The only slow part of the trip is 480 between about Granger and Warrensville Center.  Also, in the evenings it rarely takes me over 30 min, and usually closer to 25 (for some reason the traffic usually isn't as bad heading eastbound).  Yes, it's busy in that stretch, and yes it slows down pretty much every day to a crawl for a little bit, but it really doesn't cost that much time.

 

The traffic around Cleveland is generally not bad at all compared to what most people think of as heavy traffic.  Unfortunately, I think this is part of why it's hard to convince more people that we need to upgrade our public transportation system.

 

I've done it twice for interviews (Cleveland-Akron).  No traffic on SB I-77/EB I-76 in the morning either time.  SB I-77/EB I-76 back up in the afternoon, but I'm going the opposite direction then.  I make the 40 miles in 40 minutes, no joke.

 

I've never been on 480 during the morning rush, only the afternoon rush.  The afternoon rush in Cleveland is worse for some reason.  It was the opposite growing up in St. Louis, lol.  So my opinion of 480 is based only on my afternoon/evening experience :).

With the holidays and everything, I forgot to post this picture I shot on Dec. 21 of the new Eaton HQ under construction in Highland Hills. I shot this westward-looking view from the parking lot of the new University Hospitals Ahuja Medical Center‎ at Richmond and Harvard....

 

^ I love the parking lot foreground...nice touch.

Thanks. Empty lot, too. Not many people were at the hospital.

The hospital is having a hard time staffing it and filling beds, its at like 40% occupancy

It looks like the headquarters for some evil madman, bent on taking over the world!

The hospital is having a hard time staffing it and filling beds, its at like 40% occupancy

 

It was especially empty a couple days before Christmas. My dad wanted out of there during Christmas, so let him go with home health care even though he should have stayed in the hospital. But it's a beautiful hospital. Anyway.....

 

The area around the Eaton Corp. HQ is clean, ultra-modern, has lots of artistic design elements in the streetscape, and probably what the company wants to convey to visitors, customers and clients. Note in the parking area where I am (granted, it's the hospital, not Eaton, but the treatments and attention to detail are common in the Highland Hills area), I can see, from a suburban point of view, why Eaton's chiefs wanted to be at that site.

 

I think downtown Cleveland needs to do more streetscape treatments, perhaps similar to East 12th or Euclid Avenue, and give (or better advertise) incentives to companies seeking to modernize their buildings. Perhaps part of the reason why the Nine-Twelve District is having difficulty keeping office occupancy rates higher is that the district simply feels old and tired. The district needs to spruce itself up and give it some new energy. Perk Park helps. More is needed, IMHO.

Eaton's HQ building is actually in Beachwood, not Highland Hills.  I know that may seem like nitpicking, but considering that's millions in revenue for one city/school district that's been hoarding it and doesn't need it as much the other, I think it's really an important point to remember.  I believe that Cleveland/CMSD also get a slice of the action because the city owned the land and because of an anti-poaching agreement, but I don't think that Highland Hills/WHCSD see one red cent from the Eaton relocation.

Not ideal in location or style of architecture, but it's better than Eaton building the same thing in Chicago, Atlanta or Charlotte!

No, its in Highland Hills.  Cleveland gets a cut of the taxes

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080917/FREE/809179967

 

Then can you edit the title of this thread?

No, its in Highland Hills.  Cleveland gets a cut of the taxes

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080917/FREE/809179967

 

Then can you edit the title of this thread?

 

C17 is correct and I was in error. Between Green and Richmond, Beachwood is north of Harvard and Highland Hills is south of Harvard. Eaton is in Beachwood. But I remember that the City of Cleveland owned the land Eaton bought, and the anti-poaching agreement means the city and schools of Cleveland get to keep some of the tax money.

It's in the Beachwood JEDD.

No, I was wrong when I posted saying that the develpoment was not in Beachwood (and deleted it about a minute later, you are quick today MTS)

 

Anywho, per Michelle Jarboe http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/09/eaton_to_move_to_chagrin_highl.html

 

The Richard E. Jacobs Group, of Westlake, would develop an Eaton project there, on land owned by the city of Cleveland. Jacobs referred all questions to Eaton. Though Cleveland would lose workers and taxes if Eaton moved, the city would make money on the land sale and would get a 50 percent cut of income tax generated by Eaton under a joint economic development agreement with Beachwood.

 

 

under a joint economic development agreement with Beachwood.

 

Yes, this is the Beachwood JEDD.  There's actually two of them in Beachwood (East and West), and I believe this is the Beachwood East JEDD.

As much as I hate living in Beachwood and wanted Eaton to stay downtown.... we do actually need the tax money.  Our brilliant Chamber of Commerce has been giving away our office space to non-tax paying companies for the last decade (ie. Cleveland Clinic, Baldwin Wallace, JCCC, etc.)...  We're like an out of work hedge-fund manager...

^UH

under a joint economic development agreement with Beachwood.

 

Yes, this is the Beachwood JEDD.  There's actually two of them in Beachwood (East and West), and I believe this is the Beachwood East JEDD.

 

What's that mean, exactly?

 

Also, I have to ask, are they saving any of that land for Figgie International?  This is important.

Also, I have to ask, are they saving any of that land for Figgie International?  This is important.

 

Figgie International?? Now there's a blast from the past!!! Don't you mean Scott Technologies? It hasn't been called Figgie since the 90s. And its already in the Chagrin Highlands development, at 2000 Auburn Drive.

under a joint economic development agreement with Beachwood.

 

Yes, this is the Beachwood JEDD.  There's actually two of them in Beachwood (East and West), and I believe this is the Beachwood East JEDD.

 

What's that mean, exactly?

 

Also, I have to ask, are they saving any of that land for Figgie International?  This is important.

 

There are two zones (JEDDs, Joint Economic Development Districts) in Beachwood where all income tax is shared between Cleveland and Beachwood.

Eaton's HQ building is actually in Beachwood, not Highland Hills.  I know that may seem like nitpicking, but considering that's millions in revenue for one city/school district that's been hoarding it and doesn't need it as much the other, I think it's really an important point to remember.  I believe that Cleveland/CMSD also get a slice of the action because the city owned the land and because of an anti-poaching agreement, but I don't think that Highland Hills/WHCSD see one red cent from the Eaton relocation.

 

Perhaps they don't *need* it as much because one city is easier to do business in than the other.  The examples of Solon and Twinsburg (and later, even Bedford) versus Maple Heights and others come to mind. 

 

As for why Eaton chose a suburban location, they're still a manufacturing company.  My experience is that at least in this area, people in manaufacturing don't even like to go downtown (traffic, parking costs and distance, etc), let alone commute there on a daily basis.  For years only two search firms were located downtown, one of them finally moved out. 

 

I know it's somewhat sacriligious to say here, but you'll really be fighting an uphill battle to try to get a manufacturing based business to locate downtown. 

under a joint economic development agreement with Beachwood.

 

Yes, this is the Beachwood JEDD.  There's actually two of them in Beachwood (East and West), and I believe this is the Beachwood East JEDD.

 

What's that mean, exactly?

 

Also, I have to ask, are they saving any of that land for Figgie International?  This is important.

 

Just because they built a whole new freeway for them?  :)

Eaton's HQ building is actually in Beachwood, not Highland Hills.  I know that may seem like nitpicking, but considering that's millions in revenue for one city/school district that's been hoarding it and doesn't need it as much the other, I think it's really an important point to remember.  I believe that Cleveland/CMSD also get a slice of the action because the city owned the land and because of an anti-poaching agreement, but I don't think that Highland Hills/WHCSD see one red cent from the Eaton relocation.

 

Perhaps they don't *need* it as much because one city is easier to do business in than the other.  The examples of Solon and Twinsburg (and later, even Bedford) versus Maple Heights and others come to mind. 

 

As for why Eaton chose a suburban location, they're still a manufacturing company.  My experience is that at least in this area, people in manaufacturing don't even like to go downtown (traffic, parking costs and distance, etc), let alone commute there on a daily basis.  For years only two search firms were located downtown, one of them finally moved out. 

 

I know it's somewhat sacriligious to say here, but you'll really be fighting an uphill battle to try to get a manufacturing based business to locate downtown.

A little off topic here but that comment about manufacturing companies don't like being Downtown reminded me about Cleveland Cliffs....are they located Downtown know because I've seen there name on the side of new Huntington Building now (Old 200 Public Square)

^Yeah, that comment about manufacturing companies not wanting to locate downtown was a little odd.  The corporate headquarters of a Fortune 500 manufacturing firm (Eaton, Parker, Boeing, etc) run the same basic operations at their HQ as most other Fortune 500 firms.  There's nothing about manufacturing by itself that makes downtown a less attractive option for a HQ.  I mean, they aren't manufacturing hydraulic hose, pumps, and electrical breakers downtown.  For a lot of these companies it's simply the preference of the CEO/Board or a business decision based on the amount of local exposure and goodwill you want for the company and the type of talent you want to recruit. 

Perhaps they don't *need* it as much because one city is easier to do business in than the other.  The examples of Solon and Twinsburg (and later, even Bedford) versus Maple Heights and others come to mind.

 

That may be part of it, sure, but we're talking about lines on a map here and this was where the open space was.  About 20-25 years ago that part of "Beachwood" was unincorporated Warrensville Township.

 

Generally speaking, the "cost of doing business" does tend to be less in the newer sprawlburbs than in the inner-ring suburbs for a lot of reasons beyond the latter's control.  Older, more developed infrastructure will have that effect.  That does not mean that these cities should be forsaken.  The idea of "lines on a map" determining which residents in a region are taken care of and which residents suffer is a bit silly if you truly stop to think about it; Beachwood is doing nothing spectacular here beyond being in the right place at the right time.  And the residents share no burden of having these businesses located "within their city limits" because they are pushed up against the city's borders isolated from the residential areas.  The revenues generated by Eaton being located in that area should be split and shared--at the very least--with all five of the cities that have ties to the Chagrin Highlands. 

 

Speaking of freeways, we all paid for the construction of the three Beachwood interchanges and we're all still paying for their maintenance.  The City of Beachwood, which reaps the rewards that these interchanges bring in allowing workers and customers from around the region to easily access Beachwood businesses, bears little to no financial responsibility for the freeways/interchanges.  In other words, Beachwood likes regionalism when it's to their benefit, but otherwise?  Forget it.

^Yeah, that comment about manufacturing companies not wanting to locate downtown was a little odd.  The corporate headquarters of a Fortune 500 manufacturing firm (Eaton, Parker, Boeing, etc) run the same basic operations at their HQ as most other Fortune 500 firms.  There's nothing about manufacturing by itself that makes downtown a less attractive option for a HQ.  I mean, they aren't manufacturing hydraulic hose, pumps, and electrical breakers downtown.  For a lot of these companies it's simply the preference of the CEO/Board or a business decision based on the amount of local exposure and goodwill you want for the company and the type of talent you want to recruit. 

 

I was talking more about the employees themselves than the overall corporation, but the two go together.  Indeed, the examples you gave include Parker Hannifin (Mayfield Heights) and Eaton (moving to Beachwood).  Ferro Corporation is in Mayfield Heights, Moen in North Olmsted, ISG was in Richfield.

 

In a lot of cases, the CEO/top executives are from the manufacturing/engineering end themselves.  They may want to be adjacent to plant facilities, or just have that mindset.  The people who visit are often of that mindset as well.  Add in the costs, and the fact that there's no real business reason to be in a concentrated area, and you will find downtown HQs in manufacturing going the way of wearing suits and ties to the office.

 

My point is that when you are promoting downtown development, you're facing much more of an uphill battle trying to convince a manufacturing based company than you are someone in the financial or legal end of things.  The latter has inherent benefits to being downtown. 

Well maybe not downtown, but it seems like there would be plenty of space for a headquarters/plant complex for a few manufacturing companies in, say Midtown Cleveland.

I'm not trying to be mean or shut anyone down, but why are we rehashing the location?  We all know they didn't want to be in Cleveland and the city did what the could.  Eaton wanted to with the 'burbs and that is what they did.

I'm not trying to be mean or shut anyone down, but why are we rehashing the location?  We all know they didn't want to be in Cleveland and the city did what the could.  Eaton wanted to with the 'burbs and that is what they did.

 

Yep.

Agreed ^^

Well maybe not downtown, but it seems like there would be plenty of space for a headquarters/plant complex for a few manufacturing companies in, say Midtown Cleveland.

 

There most certainly is, and on the west side as well.  There, your challenge will be CERCLA, and to a lesser extent traffic and perceived crime, depending on the area.

I'm not trying to be mean or shut anyone down, but why are we rehashing the location?  We all know they didn't want to be in Cleveland and the city did what the could.  Eaton wanted to with the 'burbs and that is what they did.

I do not want to re-hash the location, however, Eaton was very well committed to building a new headquarters in the Flats, and excited about it, until the credit crisis shelved Wolstein's project for 18 months.  They needed a new corporate headquarters, and Highland Hills became a very easy decision for many reasons..including getting it done quickly.  It was designed in that location in the late 90's early 2000's, and the drawings were ready to go.  While Cleveland may not have dropped to ball entirely, we can not believe that Eaton simply wanted to move out of the city for selfish reasons.  Minus the credit crisis, the Eaton headquarters would have been on the Flats.

^I for one do not believe that.

I'm not trying to be mean or shut anyone down, but why are we rehashing the location?  We all know they didn't want to be in Cleveland and the city did what the could.  Eaton wanted to with the 'burbs and that is what they did.

I do not want to re-hash the location, however, Eaton was very well committed to building a new headquarters in the Flats, and excited about it, until the credit crisis shelved Wolstein's project for 18 months.  They needed a new corporate headquarters, and Highland Hills became a very easy decision for many reasons..including getting it done quickly.  It was designed in that location in the late 90's early 2000's, and the drawings were ready to go.  While Cleveland may not have dropped to ball entirely, we can not believe that Eaton simply wanted to move out of the city for selfish reasons.  Minus the credit crisis, the Eaton headquarters would have been on the Flats.

 

I think you need to review this entire thread along with the flats thread and if you can provide some points that backup your post I'm more than willing to read them.

 

^I for one do not believe that.

Honey, neither do I!

OK, can we please cease and desist on the discussion about the location? It's done, finis, kaput.

I hate that Eaton left downtown for Beachwood.  However that is water under the bridge so with that....an updated construction photo.

 

Good for them. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Going east on 480 (around Broadway?) this building sits high, high on the horizon in front of you... Same thing going SW on Gates Mills Blvd. Really stick outs high on the hill in distance - since no prior buiildings of any height have been in that location.

Looks like the grandstand of a space-aged horse track.

It can also be seen on 77N by TriC/St Vincents

If they had to leave downtown, at least they could have built something moderately attractive.  This building is a joke.

Those parking spaces look great, though. 

^ The parking spaces in the foreground belong to the fitness center that is east of the Eaton building.  I can't tell yet if Eaton will have surface parking to any degree.  They have constructed a large parking garage that you can see in the picture provided by Firenze98.  The building came out better than I thought it would based on the original renderings, except perhaps for the blank block for mechanical use at the top.  Maybe they will liven that up with their company logo.  In my view it has a "citadel on the hill" look.  Originally, I thought that the building would be hidden from the public, much like TRW's former campus in Lyndhurst, but it is right "out there."  It sits atop the ridge, and its upper floors should have commanding views.  It is probably the only office/institutional building in Beachwood portion of Chagrin Highlands large and imposing enough to warrant the setting in which it was placed.  The rest of the Beachwood portion of the CH development often resembles a windswept plain.    It also shows a very different rear profile to the Commerce Park development, with which Chagrin Highlands will be connected with a new road off Mercantile (yeah! more exits: less backup and better access to I-271).  What's amazing though, is that the one "block" containing Eaton and the fitness center could hold numerous other headquarters of that size.  On a side note, Beachwood wants to do denser mixed use in Commerce Park itself.  Good for them.  Urban style development does not need to be restricted to old city centers.

Chagrin-Richmond is a mess during rush hour.  I think it's smart that they're building a road that will hopefully encourage some of that traffic to migrate down to the Harvard Road 271 access point.

^ Yes, precisely.  Hopefully the two exits will be better balanced traffic-wise.

I was talking to a longtime friend of mine who is in the Ratner family. He said he expects that Eaton will come to regret moving out to freeway-land as it tries to compete for young talent. We've discussed that here, but it was nice to hear that from a someone who very close to the development scene.

 

But what was even more interesting is that he believed Progressive might start expanding or moving offices into the city. He said that Peter Lewis' hatred of Cleveland after his war with Mike White over their planned headquarters may finally be easing.