never mind I found my answer...

 

The Richard E. Jacobs Group, of Westlake, would develop an Eaton project there, on land owned by the city of Cleveland. Jacobs referred all questions to Eaton. Though Cleveland would lose workers and taxes if Eaton moved, the city would make money on the land sale and would get a 50 percent cut of income tax generated by Eaton under a joint economic development agreement with Beachwood.

I am not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about Eaton.  Hopefully, they are using the threat (if that is the right word?) of moving to the suburbs to get a better deal from the Wolsteins.

 

In this era of high gas prices (and only going to go higher), what company in their right mind would want to move out of the CBD?

 

1. Moving out to suburbs would force most of their employees to drive.  So, public transportation would not be an option and I am sure many of the employees already take public transportation to save costs.

2. Employees that live on the West Side would end up having a long and difficult commute everyday and I am sure that some of them would leave the company.

 

My first choice for Eaton would be a signature tower at Public Square which would be good for their image.  But, this is probably not a viable option since they want an office campus.

 

So, my next choice would be the Warehouse district.  The renderings of the buildings seem to fit Eaton's desires since there could be a green space on top of the low rise buildings between the two higher buildings.  This could be a great space for their employees and some of it could be enclosed in an atrium for winter use.

 

Regarding your point #1, I am fairly certain most of their employees drive now anyways. In fact, their commutes would most likely be shortened by a move to the eastern suburbs since most probably live in there.

 

HUGE blow to the city. Last one out, shut off the lights.

so kids have you voiced your concerns?

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/OurCompany/AboutUs/FromtheCEO/index.htm

 

Let him know what you think!

 

 

I just did...probably doesn't matter, but at least I feel better.

See, I don't get how this whole Chagrin Highlands thing works. I knew that Cleveland owned part, if not all, of the land there. So then why does it have to cut the income tax? I thought this was part of Cleveland, no?

HUGE blow to the city. Last one out, shut off the lights.

 

What an idiotic cleveland.bomb comment.

 

^Darn, you beat me to thanking cleveland.com for it's always insightful comments.

 

I have a feeling this comment will be axed, so sorry mods.

While other struggling cities like Detroit are finally luring businesses back downtown, here in Cleveland our Fortune 500’s keep fleeing to the suburbs … and beyond.  It may be 1/2 a loaf that they're not leaving the region, but it's an absurd blow that suburbs are helping destroy the central city.  And yeah, Dick Jacobs is swinging the wrecking ball.  So thanks Dickie J, Beachwood (which is also receiving the Jewish Community Federation from its historic downtown home), Highland Hills, Orange and Warrensville; for striking a blow for continued Cleveland area balkanization over regional cooperation which keeps this town flushing down the friggin' toilet.  I hope all this is some hardball negotiations ploy by Eaton… but I’m not holding my breath.

This isn't an anti-Cleveland move by Eaton.

 

 

I'm not sure you can extricate moving the company from Cleveland from not being anti-Cleveland. Eaton knows how this move will effect the city's revenues and that means they are directly and adversely effecting the school system and other city services. They also know Cleveland can ill afford that loss. Is that Eatons' responsibility? I say it is the responsibility of any good corporate citizen, but it appears there aren't many of those left. I understand your sentiment here and I believe jpop spoke well to the rest of your post, but I do believe this is, even if unintended, anti-Cleveland.

While other struggling cities like Detroit are finally luring businesses back downtown, here in Cleveland our Fortune 500’s keep fleeing to the suburbs … and beyond.  It may be 1/2 a loaf that they're not leaving the region, but it's an absurd blow that suburbs are helping destroy the central city.  And yeah, Dick Jacobs is swinging the wrecking ball.  So thanks Dickie J, Beachwood (which is also receiving the Jewish Community Federation from its historic downtown home), Highland Hills, Orange and Warrensville; for striking a blow for continued Cleveland area balkanization over regional cooperation which keeps this town flushing down the friggin' toilet.  I hope all this is some hardball negotiations ploy by Eaton… but I’m not holding my breath.

 

I'm not happy about this at all.. but it's not Dick Jacobs job to save Downtown Cleveland.. he's a business man in it to make money, not be a community activist.

HUGE blow to the city. Last one out, shut off the lights.

 

What an idiotic cleveland.bomb comment.

 

 

 

 

Care to tell me how my comment is idiotic rather than simply calling names, old chap? How is this idiotic? Its really not that far off. In the last week alone, the city has suffered two massive economic blows in the form of organizations jettisoning Cleveland for the far east suburbs. Cleveland isn't exactly attracting economic powerhouses to the city, so anytime it loses one (or, in this case, two) its devastating.

 

And, to all those bashing Eaton or Beachwood/Orange/Warrensville/Highland Hills, get real. You have to remember that people are rational actors. The CEO is evaluated in part on how well he manages the corporations economic health. He is doing his job by making the most intelligent financial decision he can make. Similarly, the mayor of Beachwood/Orange/Warrensville/Highland Hills is doing his job in attempting to lure Eaton away from its current HQ. I don't think many of you would place the city above your family, your employees or your career if you were in the shoes of the Eaton CEO or the suburban mayor.

 

 

While other struggling cities like Detroit are finally luring businesses back downtown, here in Cleveland our Fortune 500’s keep fleeing to the suburbs … and beyond.  It may be 1/2 a loaf that they're not leaving the region, but it's an absurd blow that suburbs are helping destroy the central city.  And yeah, Dick Jacobs is swinging the wrecking ball.  So thanks Dickie J, Beachwood (which is also receiving the Jewish Community Federation from its historic downtown home), Highland Hills, Orange and Warrensville; for striking a blow for continued Cleveland area balkanization over regional cooperation which keeps this town flushing down the friggin' toilet.  I hope all this is some hardball negotiations ploy by Eaton… but I’m not holding my breath.

 

I'm not happy about this at all.. but it's not Dick Jacobs job to save Downtown Cleveland.. he's a business man in it to make money, not be a community activist.

 

BINGO! Same can be said for the CEO of Eaton or mayor of Highland Hills. If Eaton decided to stay downtown, it would not be because he was interested in the well-being of Cleveland.

HUGE blow to the city. Last one out, shut off the lights.

 

What an idiotic cleveland.bomb comment.

 

 

 

 

Care to tell me how my comment is idiotic rather than simply calling names, old chap? How is this idiotic? Its really not that far off. In the last week alone, the city has suffered two massive economic blows in the form of organizations jettisoning Cleveland for the far east suburbs. Cleveland isn't exactly attracting economic powerhouses to the city, so anytime it loses one (or, in this case, two) its devastating.

 

And, to all those bashing Eaton or Beachwood/Orange/Warrensville/Highland Hills, get real. You have to remember that people are rational actors. The CEO is evaluated in part on how well he manages the corporations economic health. He is doing his job by making the most intelligent financial decision he can make. Similarly, the mayor of Beachwood/Orange/Warrensville/Highland Hills is doing his job in attempting to lure Eaton away from its current HQ. I don't think many of you would place the city above your family, your employees or your career if you were in the shoes of the Eaton CEO or the suburban mayor.

 

 

 

Because your first answer is stupid, just plain BS and an unnecessary shot.

 

Your second answer was much better thought out and can be discussed and debated.

 

Nobody here is taking shots at suburbs or their Mayors.

 

This smells of a back door job.  Where the city, as reported, was operating in good faith and has an agreement with many suburbs not to poach.  Jacobs is being an opportunist, NOT that I blame him, but this move will hurt the city and region far more than it will help.

 

We haven't read/heard the entire story.

I think we should refrain from calling each other's opinions idiotic or stupid. There's a much more rational way to debate than that, in my opinion.

 

I think that MTS is right, though, in terms of his desire to quash the negativity of your statement, badge. I agree. Comments like that aren't helpful in times like these and they can be divisive in times when a city needs more and more to come together. Unfortunately, many don't realize this, but giving into them or following their lead won't do any good, either.

who is on the board of directors for Eaton? 

 

Here is the list

 

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/OurCompany/AboutUs/CorporateInformation/Leadership/Directors/98065109

Last one out, shut off the lights.

 

You first.

Can anyone explain to me please how Cleveland owns part of this Chagrin Highlands and is being placed in portions of this so called Cleveland owned land. Yet Eaton Corp. will be labeled under Beachwood but Cleveland will still get 50% of the income generated.

 

If the comments are true in Flats East Bank section that according to a press release from the wolstein group it looks like they have inquires about companies outside Ohio wanting to move to the flats then will the Eaton move actually have benefited Cleveland? Since the city will still collect 50% of Eaton's income tax and we will have another company move in its place to cover the lost jobs and have even more tax revenue?

Can anyone explain to me please how Cleveland owns part of this Chagrin Highlands and is being placed in portions of this so called Cleveland owned land. Yet Eaton Corp. will be labeled under Beachwood but Cleveland will still get 50% of the income generated.

 

If the comments are true in Flats East Bank section that according to a press release from the wolstein group it looks like they have inquires about companies outside Ohio wanting to move to the flats then will the Eaton move actually have benefited Cleveland? Since the city will still collect 50% of Eaton's income tax and we will have another company move in its place to cover the lost jobs and have even more tax revenue?

 

Even if this is the best case scenario if they move, losing 50% of Eaton's income tax would take A LOT of 100%'s from other companies to make it up.

Just out of curiosity do you know how much Eaton produced in income tax to the city of Cleveland?

I don't know what exactly their tax setup is, but here's a link to Eaton's Annual Report:

 

http://www1.eaton.com/eatonar07/PDFs/EatonAR_2007.pdf

 

"Page 2" has Eaton's income at just over $1 Billion last year.

 

There's also the categories of "income before income taxes" and "income after income taxes" on the page.  Again, I personally don't know how much went to state, federal, etc.  But, it appears they paid $104 million in overall taxes last year.

SHAME on Eaton's top executives on trying to hold the City of Cleveland hostage just so they can keep their retirement packages tax free.  I don't care how one tries to spell it out, this is the main reason why Eaton is threatening to move to the suburbs (on top of shorter commute times for the top executives, no doubt, but that is another issue dealt with in many cities nationwide). 

 

Is it worth it for the City of Cleveland to grant the top execs tax exemption?  As has been stated before, if this is done, we will see a repeat of this same scenario over and over again.  Though it might make major cities in Ohio competitive on some level in the long term, in the short-term this law does nothing for our cities that are bleeding jobs left and right.  As a person who cares about the future of this city, the possible (maybe probable) move of Eaton hurts.  Bad. 

Ctown, Chagrin Highlands is a development built on a vast campus that once housed a hospital.  For some reason, the city of Cleveland owned it and the land.  About 20 years ago, the Figgie corporation wanted to make a mega corporate park there, partnering with the Jacob's group.

 

Since it was Cleveland's land in the city of Beachwood (and a few others) the tax sharing agreement was put into place.

 

The original Figgie deal never happened, but the tax sharing agreement is still going.

 

that is roughly it.

Separate thought

 

Would Scranton Peninsula have enough room?  Forest City to the rescue??

^Good call.  Eaton does not necessarily HAVE to be in the FEB, and there are other areas downtown available.

I don't think Eaton can actually move for 3/4 years.  This is rotten.  No disrespect, to anyone, but lets not talk about "what ifs", just the reality of what is actually happening.

^Sounds good to me.  Knowing that my city is being held hostage, I can agree there are other pressing issues... so what else can the city do besides allow for the top executives of Eaton to have their retirement packages exempt from city taxes?  $25 million in tax incentives obviously wasn't enough for them, and allowing the tax exemption to occur will spell trouble for the city the next time a large company contemplates moving;  I hate that we are in this situation...

Some more updates from the plain dealer article, bits and pieces of it

 

Despite Eaton's preference for the Beachwood site, some Cleveland City Council members remain hopeful.

 

"If the issue is space, then let's make more," said Councilman Joe Cimperman, whose ward includes the Flats. "I don't think this deal is done. This is as important as saving the Browns."

 

Eaton spokeswoman Kelly Jasko said the Chagrin Highlands site will allow the company plenty of space and flexibility. She would not say how much land or square footage the company would need. "Nothing has been finalized yet," she said.

 

"It's not a total loss," Cleveland City Council President Martin J. Sweeney said. But Councilman Michael Polensek said the Chagrin Highlands was designed to attract companies from outside the region - not to lure them out of Cleveland.

 

"These corporate leaders are so concerned about this city, its status and its perception," he said. "And yet we continue to see that when they have the opportunity to reinvest here, they don't do it."

 

Polensek said the 21-member council would be unlikely to block an Eaton purchase of land in the suburbs.

 

"If it's either there or out of the region, we would want them to go there," he said.

 

"They would have been a great addition," he said. "But they're not mission-critical."

 

Developers and port officials said Eaton had not complained about the Flats site, though the company was concerned with how adjoining port land would be developed. In April, the port offered to sell developers the land for $11.44 million, or $1.3 million per acre.

 

As to whether Cleveland might take another crack at keeping Eaton, economic development officials and city business leaders said it's too early to make any statements.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/09/eaton_to_move_to_chagrin_highl.html

 

 

 

 

Very hot topic today!  Ironically, I have an interview with Eaton next week... maybe I should pull out in protest!!!  I'll tell them they can have me if and only if corporate headquarters stays in downtown Cleveland.  That should get them to stay!  :roll:

It might make them think, if they're smart.  A smart company needs to consider not just it's current generation of workers and leaders, but where the next generations will come from and what they will want.

A good campus possibility in Cleveland might be as part of Opportunity Corridor.  That would give them a nice central location they're seeking and still close to downtown. 

 

 

I don't know, they don't like the surrounding neighborhood up on the Lakefront.  I would imagine that Kinsman would send them into an apoplectic fit.

SHAME on Eaton's top executives on trying to hold the City of Cleveland hostage just so they can keep their retirement packages tax free.  I don't care how one tries to spell it out, this is the main reason why Eaton is threatening to move to the suburbs (on top of shorter commute times for the top executives, no doubt, but that is another issue dealt with in many cities nationwide). 

 

Is it worth it for the City of Cleveland to grant the top execs tax exemption?  As has been stated before, if this is done, we will see a repeat of this same scenario over and over again.  Though it might make major cities in Ohio competitive on some level in the long term, in the short-term this law does nothing for our cities that are bleeding jobs left and right.  As a person who cares about the future of this city, the possible (maybe probable) move of Eaton hurts.  Bad. 

 

As I stated earlier in the thread, I think it would be a one-time exemption that would immediately apply to ALL companies within Cleveland, so it doesn't seem as if it will create a situation where each company all of the sudden insists on receiving this exemption.  In addition, it doesn't necessarily exempt the executives from paying any tax on a stock option; from my reading of the few vague news articles that have described the tax issue, it just defers the payment of tax until someone exercises the stock option, as opposed to taxing the stock option when it is granted.

 

I'm not arguing for the tax credit; I just think that it's important that we don't let this discussion get too far into speculation.  We've only had vague descriptions of the tax exemption issue, so it is really hard to understand the facts and implications, which makes it only more important that we don't jump to conclusions.

I posted this in the Flats East forum as well but it could go in either.

This is the official response from the flats district to Eaton's move.

 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/09/flats-east-bank-statement.pdf

"If the issue is space, then let's make more," said Councilman Joe Cimperman, whose ward includes the Flats. "I don't think this deal is done."

 

This is what i like about cimperman, he has positive energy and may put up a bit of a fight.  Im not going to consider Eaton gone until they being building that campus in Beachwood.

very sad and frustrating news.

This whole situation just proves the fact that it has always been and will continue to be Cleveland vs. the suburbs.  I don't understand why the city doesn't throw its weight behind situations like this.  I'm serious, jack the water bills to these crappy little burbs up by 1000% if they steal companies with more than 100 people.  What does the city have to lose?  It may make the burbs think twice about poaching.

Who knows how realistic this would be, but what the hell, do SOMETHING about the situation.

This whole situation just proves the fact that it has always been and will continue to be Cleveland vs. the suburbs.  I don't understand why the city doesn't throw its weight behind situations like this.  I'm serious, jack the water bills to these crappy little burbs up by 1000% if they steal companies with more than 100 people.  What does the city have to lose?  It may make the burbs think twice about poaching.

Who knows how realistic this would be, but what the hell, do SOMETHING about the situation.

 

I understand everyone's frustration, but why do we keep saying, "the city should do this or that" when none of us are in city government.  it's much easier to say what we would or would not do, when on the outside looking in.

 

Now having said that, without knowing the intimate details or having a seat at the negotiating table, what COULD you realistically do?

This probably sounds completely insane, but what if there were a way to make parking free all over downtown?  I can't think of any one thing that would more significantly change suburban people's desires to live, work, play and shop downtown than eliminating the financial penalty for being downtown. 

 

I know there's no way to do it.  I know that every other large city charges for parking downtown, I'm just saying, I think this would make a huge, huge difference.

 

if parking weren't controlled by private companies you might see it... but the vast, vast, majority are.

I believe in the 80's Cleveland trie to do just what you are talking about...they demo'd a bunch of buildings in the warehouse district in an attempt to provide, cheap, or maybe free parking to encourage more people to come downtown.

 

It didn't work, and those lots soon became privately controlled...:(

Well, instead of building a $500 million + convention center that may or may not be successful, the city could always build several parking garages (even at $40 million or so per) and offer free parking.  Would the voting public, however, approve such a measure?

I believe in the 80's Cleveland trie to do just what you are talking about...they demo'd a bunch of buildings in the warehouse district in an attempt to provide, cheap, or maybe free parking to encourage more people to come downtown.

 

It didn't work, and those lots soon became privately controlled...:(

 

Interesting.  The 80s Cleveland was a completely different animal than this one though, I think.  I mean, *how* did the lots become privately controlled? Someone at the city level had to allow a company to buy those lots, or rent them or however it works.  Surely there's a way to stop that?  I know it's probably a ridiculous notion, but can you imagine a more radical, attention-getting campaign than a city our size removing downtown parking charges?

This is not poaching. Eaton wants a corporate park, and obviously does not want to be downtown. This is not about Cleveland vs. Suburbs. Unfortunately, this is about a company that wants something downtown cannot offer.

Great argument for regionalism can be made of this.

This is not poaching. Eaton wants a corporate park, and obviously does not want to be downtown. This is not about Cleveland vs. Suburbs. Unfortunately, this is about a company that wants something downtown cannot offer.

 

How can you say that with 100% confidence?  There is something going on and this aint over.  I'm not saying Eaton won't go to the 'burbs, but this stinks to the high Heavens. This will be another mess that the city AND REGION will suffer from for decades to come.

Cimperman is having a fundraiser tonight in tremont, I am going with my dad.  I talked to Valerie McCall last night, the mayors chief of staff (right hand lady if thats not her official title i forget).  Frank will be there so I will be sure to ask him about this bull shit.  I will update accordingly and get back.

Well, instead of building a $500 million + convention center that may or may not be successful, the city could always build several parking garages (even at $40 million or so per) and offer free parking. Would the voting public, however, approve such a measure?

 

That is county money for the convention center... and the city doesn't have money to throw around on free garages.

MTS – OK. I'm not 100% positive, but it just seems that Eaton wants a corporate setting, and never really wanted to stay downtown. Cleveland passed some legislation and offered incentives, and they still are looking to move. I think Eaton wants something similar to Goodyear's new campus in Akron. I understand the ramifications of the move, but how can a city prevent a multibillion dollar corporation from moving. If Eaton wants to move to Beachwood there is not much Cleveland can do. I know this may not be a consolation, but let's be happy they didn't leave the region. However, I think it is time another developer steps up and presents Eaton with another downtown option.

I believe in the 80's Cleveland trie to do just what you are talking about...they demo'd a bunch of buildings in the warehouse district in an attempt to provide, cheap, or maybe free parking to encourage more people to come downtown.

 

It didn't work, and those lots soon became privately controlled...:(

It was the 60's-70's and no Cleveland, do not make that mistake again.

It sortof looks to me like they're just playing with Jacobs and Wolstein and the cities of Highland Hills and Cleveland to get the best possible deal for this move. It just makes financial sense to drop hints here and there about where they may end up, and get some fantastic offers from both sides. In other words with a few years before they'd consider moving, I don't think its over yet and I think this weeks announcement may have been intended to get Cleveland to throw in all the chips to keep them.

 

Of course it may be that Highland hills has already thrown in all the chips and their mind is made up. What do I know?

Question: If Eaton goes to Chagrin Highlands, Cleveland gets 50 percent of the income tax and no longer has to give the $25 million in incentives to Eaton, what is Cleveland losing here?

 

And the reason why Cleveland owns property out at Chagrin Highlands is because that's where the Cleveland Workhouse was located going back to the 19th century.