I told them their scare tactics won't work because some of us will get to high school and think drinking and doing drugs are cool. DARE can't change that mentality. If anything, telling us not to do drugs will just make us want to do them more.

 

At least you learned the importance of taking your medication.

 

When I have kids, unless things change drastically, I wouldn't want them to go to public schools.  Too many kids trying to get attention and not enough people telling them to stop it.

 

That throwing the baby out with the water.  That statement is very general as many public schools/publis school districts are well run and respected.

 

I don't believe, kepping your kids out of PS will help solve the problem.

 

 

When I have kids, unless things change drastically, I wouldn't want them to go to public schools. Too many kids trying to get attention and not enough people telling them to stop it.

 

That throwing the baby out with the water. That statement is very general as many public schools/publis school districts are well run and respected.

 

I don't believe, kepping your kids out of PS will help solve the problem.

 

 

Well I disagree... Even public colleges are easier and more superficial than St. Charles was.  Ohio State, Columbus Community, Seattle Central Community... all easier than St. Charles.  Just look at the news... local news or cnn or fox or whatever... it's all dumbed down. This whole damn country is getting dumbed down and public schools are just trying to get test scores up instead of actually teaching kids how to learn.  Of course there are exceptions... there's exceptional students, teachers and schools... but they are the exception not the norm.

 

As far as my kid goes... I'm not sending them to a school I know will end up being more about social status than anything else.  No matter if it contributes to the problem or not, you just don't send your kid somewhere that won't do them good. sorry.  I'm sure there are some public schools out there that are pretty decent, I just haven't seen them yet.

 

To the argument that kids need to know how to deal in the real world and therefore public schools teach them that. Doubtful.  Why would a kid need to know how to be cool or get attention? There's a few reasons, but mainly superficial.  If they know how to be polite and can learn well and work hard, then there's a whole lot there.

 

Public Schools, outside of the social problems there, teach public curriculum. Public curriculum teaches a kid just enough to work for someone, or maybe start their own business and work for the country's tax interests.  But public curriculum doesn't teach much if anything else.  Is our life really based on our job? Do you want it to be that way? I don't.

 

I think maybe our standards have been compromised. 

OK.  I don't believe that every Cleveland Public School is bad.  There are several Cleveland Public Schools that a performing on par with their Suburban counterparts.  There are some that are unique all together, such as the Cleveland School of the Arts.  I know suburban kids that WANT to go to that school.

 

I think, and this is personal, that when people say they will not send their kids to public school, they are caught up in "perception" and instead of working to help improve, say, the Cleveland school district we'll move or send our kids to private/parochial school, which further burdens & hurts the Cleveland school district.

 

Are there any teachers here on the board? 

Good parenting overcomes poor teachers anyday

^My thoughts exactly. People keep saying "we need to fund inner city schools more and give them new books". They already put more money into inner city schools than anywhere else. What they need to do is fine parents for not checking their kids homework. If they can manage to do that, I bet inner city schools will improve.

an interesting stat is that racially the cleveland public school students relatively reflect the city population as whole, whereas in cincinnati and columbus the ps student population is very heavily black when compared with city demographics.

 

there must be a lot of white kids in cinci and cols going to private schools. white flight is not just in the suburbs.

 

Like dmerkow already stated, this is due to the parochial school system and the fact that blacks usually are another denomination other than catholic.

Good parenting overcomes poor teachers anyday

 

DanB, you've never spoken more truer words! ;)

Good parenting overcomes poor teachers anyday

 

I don't believe that it is really poor teachers.  I know some Cleveland teachers that are very qualified for the job.  I think it isn't so much, "how are the teachers in the school"?  I think it is more, "what are the kids like that go to the school"?  It really boils down to who are your kids hanging out with and getting influenced by.  Naturally, as caring parents, you want your kids surrounded by relativeley speaking, good, respectful children.  I really and truely trhink that it would be impossible to have a big intercity scholl district that is desireable to send your children to without that neighborhood gentifying...if that is the right word.  Look at Parma for instance.  As the neighborhoods and families are changing, as is the school district.  It is continually getting lower ratings. 

Personally, we're looking at 2 possibilities -more leaning towards A though:

 

A) The new Cincinnati SCPA

&

B) Homeschooling

 

... I know the homeschooling thing seems weird, but it's worth investigating if you haven't already done so and if you haven't don't even bother. There are many sports and other similar programs that your kids can get plugged into while they're home-schooled too.

Good parenting overcomes poor teachers anyday

 

DanB, you've never spoken more truer words! ;)

 

I also agree with DanB.

The homeschooling isn't weird, as long as the parents have the ability to focus on it and maintain it.  I wouldn't have the patience myself!  There is plenty of opportunity to get the kids involved in outside activities.  Of course, if they do have a specific talent it might be hard to get all the singing, dancing, or acting opportunities as one would at SPCA.

 

I think another important point to consider is the general environment of the schools you choose.  No matter how good a parent you may be, and no matter how good a student your child may be, the environment may dictate their level of success.

 

Growing up, it was drilled into our heads that we would be going to college.  There was no question about it.  I once expressed an interest in working with my father in his flooring business, but he made it clear that he expected more of me.  It was never in a way that any of us resented, I suppose if we choose differently it would have worked out.  We just never really thought differently.  I truly believe his main goal in life was that his kids would have a better life than he, and that meant college.  And that’s what the 4 of us did.  My 1st wife’s family didn’t have the same philosophy; go if you want, but don’t expect any help from us.  None of the 3 ever finished.

 

I decided to take the same approach with my kids, and it was never an issue.  Luckily I had custody, because she got different advice from her mother who took the same approach her parents had.  The only problem I had was not understanding how to focus my daughters art talent towards a career.  As I told her art teacher, I come from a family of scientists, I don’t know how to help her.  That’s when he directed her towards graphic design.

 

I choose to send my daughters to Catholic school.  Being Catholic was not the #1 reason.  I did not get a Catholic education, but I thought the discipline would be better for them.  By discipline, I do not mean Nuns with rulers!  I mean the ability to focus on what is and what is not is important!

 

My oldest daughter went to Seton, which leans heavily to college prep, but has a fair number of vocational programs.  She gravitated towards the kids who were like her, who had the same goals. My oldest stepdaughter went to St. Ursula, virtually all college prep.  Never a question for them about going to college, and both of them have become very successful in their careers.

 

My youngest daughter went to Purcell because of their LD program.  Purcell is a fine school, but is not geared towards college prep as some of the other Catholic Schools.  She too gravitated towards the kids most like her, who had some of the same problems she had.  While she is successful in what she does, her choice of friends has not always been the best, and she’s had some problems with it.

 

I know, it’s a small sampling size, but if you have a choice and you choose to send your kids to a school where the other parents don’t have the same goals, you are putting your kids at risk.

 

an interesting stat is that racially the cleveland public school students relatively reflect the city population as whole, whereas in cincinnati and columbus the ps student population is very heavily black when compared with city demographics.

 

there must be a lot of white kids in cinci and cols going to private schools. white flight is not just in the suburbs.

 

Like dmerkow already stated, this is due to the parochial school system and the fact that blacks usually are another denomination other than catholic.

 

Only partly true.  Inner-city blacks typically can't afford those glorious St. X's and Alter's so they go to public schools.  Also, there is a stigma in the black community that Catholic schools are "for white people," which is a shame (I went to Catholic school which had the largest percentage of minorities in SW Ohio).  And let's keep it real...a vast number of white school children that attend Catholic school aren't Catholic either.

^ I think everything you just said has the possibility of being true, but I don't believe a vast amount aren't catholic.

 

I would assume that blacks are mostly:

 

Baptist & Methodist ... with Presbyterianism being as rare as Catholic.

 

 

>Inner-city blacks typically can't afford those glorious St. X's and Alter's so they go to public schools.

 

Actually most private schools give out many (St. X had 25% on financial aid when I was there with the cut off being around $60K family income for some aid) partial and total scholarships to people who can't afford it.  Problem is a lot of these people don't want to be there even though they get a free ride.  A lot of public and private universities have the exact same problem.  Most universities have a program where minority faculty recruit minority students and are paid well to do so but STILL can't reach their recruiting goals.   

 

I teach part-time at a community college so I deal with the products of the public schools all the time.  Many of these people are shockingly under-educated (this week one didn't know what the space shuttle was) and expect teachers to do everything for them and to be showered with individual attention.  Also, the students on welfare or who qualify go for free, get all kinds of free stuff not limited to a brand-new Mac laptop, and then barely come to class, do no work, cause trouble by bringing their kids to class, never stop text messaging, etc. 

Personally, we're looking at 2 possibilities -more leaning towards A though:

 

A) The new Cincinnati SCPA

&

B) Homeschooling

 

... I know the homeschooling thing seems weird, but it's worth investigating if you haven't already done so and if you haven't don't even bother. There are many sports and other similar programs that your kids can get plugged into while they're home-schooled too.

 

Homeschool makes kids socially retarded freaks. Why is Walnut not an option? I know they only start at 7th grade but your kids could go to Kilgour or something which is a great school, and then go to Walnut.

Personally, we're looking at 2 possibilities -more leaning towards A though:

 

A) The new Cincinnati SCPA

&

B) Homeschooling

 

... I know the homeschooling thing seems weird, but it's worth investigating if you haven't already done so and if you haven't don't even bother. There are many sports and other similar programs that your kids can get plugged into while they're home-schooled too.

 

Homeschool makes kids socially retarded freaks. Why is Walnut not an option? I know they only start at 7th grade but your kids could go to Kilgour or something which is a great school, and then go to Walnut.

 

This is the same generalization that gets regurgitated by people who have never studied homeschooling and the effects of it (and when I say studied, I don't mean have read a CNN article about it).

Well I know a few kids that were homeschooled, and they are very weird.  Kids need to have a life outside of the home.  To restrict them to just one sphere is robbing them of an experience children should have.

Well I know a few kids that were homeschooled, and they are very weird.  Kids need to have a life outside of the home.  To restrict them to just one sphere is robbing them of an experience children should have.

 

You must have stopped reading before you came to the end of his post:

 

There are many sports and other similar programs that your kids can get plugged into while they're home-schooled too.

 

You are right about those homeschooled kids who don't get the outside influence.

Well I know a few kids that were homeschooled, and they are very weird.

 

Well, there you have it folks! Case closed - I now have changed my mind. ;)

^Why take your kid out of a social envrionment with their peers?  Home schooling is over protective and IMO, can be damaging.  Think about your kid not being able to go to highschool football/basketball games, actually play on their highschool sports teams, attend guest speakers and performers at school, not being able to have highschool reunions or a place to visit when they come back from college, etc.  Going away to school starting in Kindergarten is part of the experience of being a kid.

^Why take your kid out of a social envrionment with their peers? Home schooling is over protective and IMO, can be damaging. Think about your kid not being able to go to highschool football/basketball games, actually play on their highschool sports teams, attend guest speakers and performers at school, not being able to have highschool reunions or a place to visit when they come back from college, etc. Going away to school starting in Kindergarten is part of the experience of being a kid.

 

 

This is the same generalization that gets regurgitated by people who have never studied homeschooling and the effects of it (and when I say studied, I don't mean have read a CNN article about it).

 

You sound intrigued by this. The generalization is that this has a negative effect on a growing child, when in fact that's not true. Study it for yourself. I also used to disagree with it, until I decided to challenge a friend that did encourage it. It's obvious where I stand now.

 

Fact is:

 

Kids screw up in life and attend public school - It was his/her friends and peer pressure.

Kids screw up in life and attend private school - Their parents were screwed up.

Kids screw up in life and were home-schooled - They were home-schooled.

 

 

OK.  I don't believe that every Cleveland Public School is bad.  There are several Cleveland Public Schools that a performing on par with their Suburban counterparts.  There are some that are unique all together, such as the Cleveland School of the Arts.  I know suburban kids that WANT to go to that school.

 

I think, and this is personal, that when people say they will not send their kids to public school, they are caught up in "perception" and instead of working to help improve, say, the Cleveland school district we'll move or send our kids to private/parochial school, which further burdens & hurts the Cleveland school district.

 

Are there any teachers here on the board? 

 

Well my mom was a teacher in columbus public schools for a couple years... She couldn't stand the way it was run and quit to wait tables again.  It's nice huh - she chose waiting tables over putting up with the bs at Columbus Public... Of course I'm biased, but I believe she was a pretty good teacher with a pretty liberal view and she just couldn't take it.  It wasn't the kids, it was the adults and the system.

 

Everyone loves to say it comes down to the parents... That's obviously true, but hardly helpful. You're not going to change all the deadbeats, addicts, and just plain dumb parents out there in any sort of timely manner. Especially not the way we're going today... It'll take massive social programs from the government which half this country will not let happen because of all those <reagan> "Welfare Queens" </reagan> which don't actually exist yet scare the bejeebus out of half the country.

Well I know a few kids that were homeschooled, and they are very weird. Kids need to have a life outside of the home. To restrict them to just one sphere is robbing them of an experience children should have.

 

I think Cincinnatus said it pretty well. I'm sure you know many more than just a few home-schooled people, you just might not notice the ones that aren't "weird" - Not to mention I could think of quite a few worse things than being weird... mainly, being ignorant.  Now homeschooling isn't the end-all be-all, because if you're parents are ignorant, or worse... dumb, then you're screwed lol. fortunately, a lot of parents who care enough to home-school are neither. 

 

Unfortunately for me, I got to thinking about using the word 'ignorant' and realized I'd be a bit ignorant if I thought I wasn't ignorant... ahh... it's a never ending cycle damnit

For what it's worth, I know a guy who was homeschooled with his siblings, but their parents had this sort of collective of other homeschooling families whose kids would get together for athletic activities, field trips, etc.  I always thought that was kind of neat.

Inner-city blacks typically can't afford those glorious St. X's and Alter's so they go to public schools.

 

I would agree with you in some cities, but for the most part, this is not true in Cleveland.  African-American student body percentages in the schools close to the core of the city are higher than one would probably expect for Catholic schools: Cleveland Central Catholic - 59% (and 77% minority), Benedictine and VASJ - ~25%, St. Ignatius and St. Edward - ~10%.  This is probably why the racial makeup of the CMSD reflects the population fairly closely.

 

The Catholic schools that are viewed as being uppity and white are mostly in the burbs, like Gilmour and NDCL.

Cincinnati's are mixed. Purcell and Bacon are integrated (not sure about the west-side though I'm guessing they are more integrated than they were 15 years ago). The elite schools try to get a decent number (SUA, STX, Ursuline), but it depends on the year. The closer of inner city Catholic schools has made it harder - more non-Catholics in grade schools than high schools.

When my friend graduated from Elder a few years ago he said there was only 1 or 2 black students. I don't know if he was talking about his class or the school, but either way, its sad.

This is probably why the racial makeup of the CMSD reflects the population fairly closely.

 

It doesn't reflect it that closely.  The city is about 51% black, 41% white, and 8% Hispanic (of any race,) while the public schools are about 70% black, 16% non-Hispanic white, and 11% Hispanic. 

i wonder if it mirrors the racial makeup of cleveland's school-aged children, not the city as a whole. 

 

i also wonder how many cleveland district kids are from newburgh hts, linndale, or bratenahl, and how many cleveland kids go to shaker.

i wonder if it mirrors the racial makeup of cleveland's school-aged children, not the city as a whole. 

 

i also wonder how many cleveland district kids are from newburgh hts, linndale, or bratenahl, and how many cleveland kids go to shaker.

 

I can't imagine the numbers of Cleveland kids at Shaker to be high.  The area of Cleveland covered in the Shaker School district isn't that large.

another question

 

has anyone ever even BEEN to linndale?  other than driving through on 71 or 117th?

^I've been to their village hall for mayor's court - you can guess why...

 

Busiest mayor's courts in Ohio

City                        Total cases Cases per 100 residents

1. Brooklyn              11,382      98

2. Reading                8,415        75

3. Willoughby Hills      7,854        91

4. Middleburg Heights  7,042        45

5. Dublin                  6,146        20

6. Reynoldsburg        5,852        18

7. Boston Heights      5,008      422

8. North Ridgeville      4,950        22

9. Linndale                4,752    4062

10. Parma Heights      4,551        21

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/linndale_mayors_court_leads_in.html

^yeah the duh moment just hit me now, court

I think most European-Americans would shy away from a school that has a majority African-American students. It's a difference in values and culture. The idea of attending your local school is better than trying to achieve some sort of "racial balance". Just leave parents alone and let them choose the school that fits their needs.