St. Louis, which is a very underrated city

 

Completely agree, but St. Louis is falling apart at it's core.  I have no doubt in my mind that St. Louis was an amazingly beautiful city at one point, but outside the Forest Park area, I was a little disheartened.  I love me some good old German cities though.  Cincinnati, Milwaukee, and St. Louis are the three most graciously planned cities in the US (in my opinion)

IMO so take it with a grain of salt, but I always thought east coast came off a little too conformist in how one should be... I know that might sound a little strange but I'm only going off of what I picked up from people I knew while in the military. The east coast crowd seemed not to like people that didn't act just like them.  You would think opposite but that was not my experience.

IMO so take it with a grain of salt, but I always thought east coast came off a little too conformist in how one should be... I know that might sound a little strange but I'm only going off of what I picked up from people I knew while in the military. The east coast crowd seemed not to like people that didn't act just like them. You would think opposite but that was not my experience.

 

That might be true. I hate people from other parts of the country. :)

No, it's not that. Plenty of west coast friends.

Looks like us Ohioans, don't like the south! At least I know I don't.

 

Nashville is really nice.  I used to love going down there when I still had a car.  Used to go several times per year to see shows.

If push came to shove, I could live in DC.  Although, I hate the south with a passion, I don't consider S. Florida in the same vain as the "traditional" South.  For some reason I feel as though I could live ON Miami Beach, however, that would get real tired, real quick.

 

so that leaves Philadelphia.

 

 

I love S. Philly. Queens Village, Society Hill, etc. There's a lot of nice up and coming areas around the center city.

 

 

Washington...I would even put up with the summers.

I love S. Philly. Queens Village, Society Hill, etc. There's a lot of nice up and coming areas around the center city.

 

 

I would live around Rittenhouse Square or Logan Circle.

You either haven't been to NYC or are lying if you say any other city.

 

??? That's a pretty harsh statement.  Care to explain?  I've been to NYC over 5 times, and while I always like it there, and am impressed with how vibrant and 24/7 the city is, there is also just something I don't like about it.  I think NYC is a wonderful city, but for my personal tastes I prefer other places.

 

What I don't like about NY:

-The people.  Having gone to school where almost 50% of the student body was from "the city", I can say definiteively that I just don't care for the NY mentality.

-Too crowded

-Too centralized.  I love Manhattan and all it has to offer, but other than a few neighborhoods in Brooklyn, what else is there in NY.  (and I'd say 75% of those aforementioned kids from the city have probably never even been to Brooklyn). 

-Dirty

-Too arrogant.  I guess this goes with the people, but I'm sick and tired of hearing about how great NY is and anything that isn't what they're used to is automatically inferior.

-Too European.  Being in NY doesn't even feel like being in the US to me.  I would say NY has much more in common with London and Paris than it does with San Fran, LA, or even Cincinnati for that matter.  Stack NY up against those cities and I don't think you'd say it's head and shoulders above the rest.

 

 

Chicago.  And maybe Detroit for no particular reason.  I've never actually lived in the city of Detroit, but it feels like home living nearby.  I think I'll miss it if I choose to move to the East Coast, but at least close enough if I live in Chicago when I graduate.

 

(I voted Chicago btw)

Washington...I would even put up with the summers.

I don't think the summers are any worse than the summers in Cleveland.  The humidity in both is unbearable.

"-Too centralized.  I love Manhattan and all it has to offer, but other than a few neighborhoods in Brooklyn, what else is there in NY.  (and I'd say 75% of those aforementioned kids from the city have probably never even been to Brooklyn).  "

 

What an ignorant statement. Even if you live in Manhattan, you could very easily have fun in Park Slope, DUMBO,Williamsburgh,BK Heights, Flushing, Woodside, Jackson Heights,etc.

 

Also, there's tons of cultural institutions, parks, etc. located outside of Manhattan.

 

If Brooklyn were its own isolated city, I'd still want to move there.

You say that now.  I've been to brooklyn maybe 10 times since moving to manhattan.

 

:wink:

That's because you won't get off urbanohio (like me).

If someone lived in downtown Cincinnati and walked wherever they needed to go, they wouldn't be going to Hyde Park or Colerain much either. I don't see how "centralization" is any different other than the fact that it's just on a larger scale.

That's because you won't get off urbanohio (like me).

HUSH!

While on a whole New York City's "attractions" are basically around or on Manhattan, New York City has so many OTHER neighborhood (hell, Queens alone annihilates the majority of this list) that it's kinda of silly to say "what else does NYC have."  I mean, I wish downtown Cincinnati or Cleveland or Columbus was as busy at, say, 149th Street (Da Hub) in the Bronx.

You say that now. I've been to brooklyn maybe 10 times since moving to manhattan.

 

:wink:

 

Yeah, and I hardly think you're unique in that regard, MTS. Almost all of the people I know from Manhattan STAY in Manhattan except for specific events.  They might venture to Queens for the US Open, or The Bronx for a Yankees game, but it's not like they're going to venture off to Brooklyn or Staten Island for dinner...Only exception to this that I have seen is with Manhattanites going to Long Island (usually the Hamptons, but also some of the closer in beaches).

 

What an ignorant statement. Even if you live in Manhattan, you could very easily have fun in Park Slope, DUMBO,Williamsburgh,BK Heights, Flushing, Woodside, Jackson Heights,etc.

 

Also, there's tons of cultural institutions, parks, etc. located outside of Manhattan.

 

If Brooklyn were its own isolated city, I'd still want to move there.

 

I actually believe your statement is the ignorant one, David.  I didn't say there was NOTHING outside of Manhattan, as of course there are great and vibrant neighborhoods in all the burroughs.  Just because you can spout off some Brooklyn neighborhoods fresh off a tour this summer does not change my point that the VAST majority of things to do in NYC happen in Manhattan.  Contrast this to LA where you have nodes of activity from Pasadena to Santa Monica and all points in between.  It's a more even spread of activity (though it is definitely more concentrated on the westside...), which is simply what I prefer.

 

I would say a good example of what I mean can be found in Cincinnati.  All the fine dining, nightlife, shopping, the nicest neighborhoods and most expensive neighborhoods, and cultural attractions can all be found downtown and points east.  The majority of people looking for a good dinner, night out, good shopping, etc. have everything they need on the east side.  Now that isn't to say there is no dining, nightlife, shopping, or that there are no nice neighborhoods on the West side, because there are, but as a whole, the east side holds the majority of the city's destinations.

 

 

I know Manhattan is culturally, economically different, but so are downtowns vs. neighborhoods. You're arguing that NYC is inferior because people don't travel through as much geographic space to get between nodes. Every city has (what Kevin Lynch refers to as) "edges" that create barriers or direct movement (walls, hills/mountains, rivers, even highways). In Manhattan's case, it has rivers separating it from Jersey, Brooklyn, etc. I bet 100 years ago, Cincinnati was just like NYC in terms of isolation due to the dense pedestrian-oriented environment and topography. Someone in Lower Price Hill would not be inclined to go to Mt. Adams because it was a b!tch.

 

All I'm saying is how does that make Manhattan worse, when it has the same population as the entire metro of Columbus anyway? To me its like complaining that people in Columbus don't go to Cleveland enough. Why go to Cleveland when you have everything in Columbus and it's a long drive? Why go to Brooklyn when you have everything in Manhattan and it's a long train ride? The only difference is that NYC is a much larger city.

isn't most of the hipster shit in brooklyn?  i'm more in tune with that kind of nightlife.  a good majority of my friends from college live in brooklyn now, not sure how they do it.  i'm so used to ohio's BARGAIN lifestyle.  nyc seems way too cost prohibitive to be in for an extended amount of time, at least for me. 

While on a whole New York City's "attractions" are basically around or on Manhattan, New York City has so many OTHER neighborhood (hell, Queens alone annihilates the majority of this list) that it's kinda of silly to say "what else does NYC have."  I mean, I wish downtown Cincinnati or Cleveland or Columbus was as busy at, say, 149th Street (Da Hub) in the Bronx.

 

oooohh, Honey.  NOT 149 Street.  I love my people, but I wouldn't want that type of activitiy in downtown Cleveland.  We'd all be robbed.  LOL

 

How about we say the activity on 7 Avenue in Park Slope, 125 Street in Harlem or 74 & Roosevelt Avenue in Queens.

isn't most of the hipster sh!t in brooklyn?  i'm more in tune with that kind of nightlife.  a good majority of my friends from college live in brooklyn now, not sure how they do it.  i'm so used to ohio's BARGAIN lifestyle.  nyc seems way too cost prohibitive to be in for an extended amount of time, at least for me. 

 

Hipster?  That label just cracks me up, since the people who think they are hipsters, trendsetters are usually wanna-bes!

 

No, Manhattan will always be "the spot".  Housing is so expensive in NYC which is why it has the highest "room mate" percentages in the country.  70%+ of the people who live in NYC are renters.  80%+ off the people who live in Manhattan are renters.

 

When a 700 sq ft. apartment rents for $1,800-2k a month, you don't really have to ask yourself why three people, who make about 35-45K a year, live together?

 

Put me down for Louisville since it is my original hometown.  But Chicago is up there.  I also like LA for some weird reason.

 

Grand Rapids, MI is also a freakin' great city.

 

I'll be visiting Portland, OR in November so I look forward to that city impressing me.

isn't most of the hipster sh!t in brooklyn? i'm more in tune with that kind of nightlife. a good majority of my friends from college live in brooklyn now, not sure how they do it. i'm so used to ohio's BARGAIN lifestyle. nyc seems way too cost prohibitive to be in for an extended amount of time, at least for me.

 

Hipster? That label just cracks me up, since the people who think they are hipsters, trendsetters are usually wanna-bes!

 

No, Manhattan will always be "the spot". Housing is so expensive in NYC which is why it has the highest "room mate" percentages in the country. 70%+ of the people who live in NYC are renters. 80%+ off the people who live in Manhattan are renters.

 

When a 700 sq ft. apartment rents for $1,800-2k a month, you don't really have to ask yourself why three people, who make about 35-45K a year, live together?

 

Brooklyn is my favorite borough by FAR.

Washington...I would even put up with the summers.

I don't think the summers are any worse than the summers in Cleveland.  The humidity in both is unbearable.

 

Summers are much worse here than in Cleveland.  DC was built on a swamp, so it is often very soupy and stagnant here. 

It is typically 12-15 degrees warmer than cleveland, and with way more humidity and no lake breeze!

 

I voted Chicago, great city in every way, with the people to match!

 

I never loved living in DC.  It is a great and beautiful place to visit, but living here is another story, and in general I think the people kinda suck here.  Although it is coming around and becoming more of a real city since the last few years people have moved back into the city, and are starting to take more of a stake here, setting down roots (not only just a stop off point in someones career anymore)   

The restaurants and service here have gotten a little better as a result (and more different kinds of options).  When I moved here nobody really cared that much, but thats starting to change. 

 

 

While on a whole New York City's "attractions" are basically around or on Manhattan, New York City has so many OTHER neighborhood (hell, Queens alone annihilates the majority of this list) that it's kinda of silly to say "what else does NYC have."  I mean, I wish downtown Cincinnati or Cleveland or Columbus was as busy at, say, 149th Street (Da Hub) in the Bronx.

 

oooohh, Honey.  NOT 149 Street.  I love my people, but I wouldn't want that type of activitiy in downtown Cleveland.  We'd all be robbed.  LOL

 

How about we say the activity on 7 Avenue in Park Slope, 125 Street in Harlem or 74 & Roosevelt Avenue in Queens.

 

oh please. take a pill.  :mrgreen:

 

i've worked part of the week at the hub for almost 15yrs and its fine. and yes i shop and eat and hit a couple pubs there too on occasion. i've never had a problem. knock on wood, but no hatin on the bronx!

 

besides he was making a point about all the shopping activity, not the ses level of the retail and people.

 

fyi the hub isnt even the busiest shopping sector in the bronx. western fordham rd puts it to shame. its a bit more upscale...umm, if that's a word you can use in bronx. i was just up on fordham rd tuesday for a meeting and noticed like any small ohio town they even have a "curves." :laugh:

 

but if thats not enough, hang on the bx is getting a lot more all new shopping just below yankee stadium down to 149th st. it's all going up right now.

 

the main point is i couldn't agree more that any of the three c's would love all of this walkable retail activity and hustle bustle in their own downtowns again.

 

***

 

edale -- most people in nyc do not live in manhattan & there are tons of sights and things to do outside of that infamous attention hog borough. yes even in the bronx. i'm trying to do more threads on the borough neighborhoods.  :wink:  also, i am generalizing, but versus uptight manhattan the outer borough people are all uniformly nicer (williamsburg being an exception  :laugh:).

 

***

 

re the thread topic -- i have a crush on milwaukee. and el paso.  i do!  :laugh:

 

 

^^ That is a great photo!

oh please. take a pill.  :mrgreen:

 

i've worked part of the week at the hub for almost 15yrs and its fine. and yes i shop and eat and hit a couple pubs there too on occasion. i've never had a problem. knock on wood, but no hatin on the bronx!

 

besides he was making a point about all the shopping activity, not the ses level of the retail and people.

 

HUSH!  You know I was just BS'n. Now back to Chelsea, you!  :-P

 

edale -- most people in nyc do not live in manhattan & there are tons of sights and things to do outside of that infamous attention hog borough. yes even in the bronx. i'm trying to do more threads on the borough neighborhoods.  :wink:  also, i am generalizing, but versus uptight manhattan the outer borough people are all uniformly nicer (williamsburg being an exception  :laugh:).

 

***

re the thread topic -- i have a crush on milwaukee. and el paso.  i do!  :laugh:

I agree with mrnyc.  Brooklyn is the most populated borough in NYC and IIRC, would be the 4 largest city in the country if it was a City.  Queens is the most diverse.

 

In addition, you have northern NJ which is considered the "six borough" as its a stones throw from Manhattan and Long Island.

 

the uptight people in manhattan are not usually native NYers, it's transplants that think they have to act a certain way to fit in.  Ugh!

 

Who in the hell chose De'twat? :?

Not me but just cause the pope isn't around... NO HATIN' ON THE BIG D. :laugh:

Who in the hell chose De'twat? :?

Not me but just cause the pope isn't around... NO HATIN' ON THE BIG D. :laugh:

He he he he he he he

I live in a pretty dangerous neighborhood in Manhattan.. 77th & 1st is straight gangsta..

I live in a pretty dangerous neighborhood in Manhattan.. 77th & 1st is straight gangsta..

 

White folks!  Oy!

I voted New York, but sort of hate myself for it as I grow sick of some the crappier aspects of the City.  Sometimes I wonder if I would like life in Chicago.  Or maybe a city in another country that manages to balance livability and amenities a little better.

 

When a 700 sq ft. apartment rents for $1,800-2k a month, you don't really have to ask yourself why three people, who make about 35-45K a year, live together?

 

If it's a decent neighborhood below 96th Street,  700 sq ft apartment is more like $2800-$4000 these days, sigh.  But the high cost of renting market rate apartments is partly due to artificial scarcity: more than 75% of Manhattan's rental units are either publicly subsidized (projects, supportive housing) or are rent regulated, leaving the well-paid and newcomers fighting over (and bidding up) only a small fraction of the rental stock.

I used 1.8k-2k, as I read that was the average asking price for a rental of that size for all of NYC.

 

And that invisible barrier at 96 street moved to 125 street.

 

I see signs for rentals in my area asking 2,500 for 800-1k square feet.

 

75% is a high number.  Who knew.  I'd like to note  that public owned doesn't mean it's a project building.  Many city owned housing dwellings are regular apartments, senior buildings, and brownstones. 

 

 

^

I'd like to note that public owned doesn't mean it's a project building.  

 

Yep- and sorry, I meant "publicly subsidized" (meaning the rent, not the development), not just publicly owned.

 

Grand Rapids, MI is also a freakin' great city.

 

 

 

Agree.  I forgot to mention how much I love Grand Rapids.  The growth there is incredible, and they are not far from some of Michigan's best beaches.  Lots of historic homes, and excellent downtown density.  Not to mention I love their plans for a modern streetcar system.

I live in a pretty dangerous neighborhood in Manhattan.. 77th & 1st is straight gangsta..

 

wait. i thought you moved to long island or something? when did you move into the city? hows that going?

wait. i thought you moved to long island or something? when did you move into the city? hows that going?

 

He's been in The City a five, six months or so.  Haven't you noticed the stench?  :wink:

oh gawd, please tell me thats not him in drag?  :laugh:

oh gawd, please tell me thats not him in drag?   :laugh:

 

Naa.  That's his favorite picture!

Haha that girl just looks like she left a sorority formal and is gonna have a train ran on her..

Haha that girl just looks like she left a sorority formal and is gonna have a train ran on her..

You know you love her!

She looks like that chick from that sitcom that stars two gay dudes and a straight woman.

Will and Grace? lol No need to act like you don't remember what it's called ;) I bet its low in queue on your netflix list. :mrgreen:

I can't believe I'm saying this.. but I agree with C-Dawg..

I like San Diego.

How the hell is Milwaukee not on the list!?!  I'd argue that Milwaukee have THE BEST lakefront out of all the great lakes cities.  The riverwalk is alive and hopping.  The restaurants and bars are unrivaled.  The Third Ward it like a mini-SOHO (really, it's that cool) our former mayor is now the head of the Council for the New Urbanism.  Our transit system SUCKS, but it doesn't really matter because it's probably the most walkable city in the Midwest.  There's plenty of room to grow.  Rents are cheap.  AND, if you ever get bored, there are plenty of cool smaller (80,000-100,000 people) cities surrounding it that are easy to get to and explore...Waukesha, Racine, Kenosha, Port Washington, Fun Du Lac, Sheboygan.  It's all commected through various transit agencies.

 

Milwaukee kicks ASS!!! 

 

 

...I like Des Moines a lot too.

 

Sorry about not checking back on this poll sooner. I only went with the cities that came to mind in the course of about 10 minutes. So, I apologize for not adding the cities below, but there is no way in h*ll that Des Moines is ever going to touch this list.

 

Milwaukee

Portland

Minneapolis/St. Paul

DFW

San Diego

HAHA, okay.  You're forgiven.  Yeah, your list of 5/7 cities that you forgot are some biggies.  Des Moines gets a lot less credit than it deserves though.  It's an awesome art town, with quite a few insurance companies, and a great nightclub and bar scene.  Drake helps a lot.  AND, they're tallest building is taller than Milwaukee's...if that's worth anything.

The disparities of these cities is remarkable.  I LOVE Cincinnati, and it is my hometown, but it doesn't hold water against cities like NYC, DC, Philly, SF, LA, or Chicago.  I almost gagged when I saw two people make comments about Louisville as being their favorite.  That's just silly.

 

BTW, the reason I feel so strongly about NYC is that NYC is the city in America.

The disparities of these cities is remarkable. I LOVE Cincinnati, and it is my hometown, but it doesn't hold water against cities like NYC, DC, Philly, SF, LA, or Chicago. I almost gagged when I saw two people make comments about Louisville as being their favorite. That's just silly.

 

BTW, the reason I feel so strongly about NYC is that NYC is the city in America.

 

Now THAT is just silly.  Most large cities I've been to have MAJOR identity crises and have populations that don't understand the concept of community.  Some cities are small, have great a great sense of community, but have very few amenities.  Some cities are huge, have more amenities than would ever be needed, but have last all will to through a block party or have a community social.  I happen to believe that there's a peak ratio for cities and that population lies somewhere around 1-2 million people.  Please note that I'm using the metro area as the population of the city...so this would include places like Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Boston, Kansas City, Denver, and Potrland.  Now I know some of these cities fall outside that 1-2 million range, but I hope you get my point.  Just because a place in considered by most to be the center of the universe, that does not make it the most livable and likable place.

 

If I EVER had a choice between going to NYC or Grand Rapids, I would choose Grand Rapids in a heartbeat.