Alright, I have a VERY clear idea of what I want to do with my life, but I'm kind of lost in the path to get there...

 

My aspirations and mindset:

Some day soon I WILL be living in Cincinnati and I need to work for the city in the Transportation and Urban Design department.  Everything listed on their website is a passion of mine.  I want to do everything in my power to help maintain the architectural integrity of that beautiful city and foster the growth of new and intriguing neighborhoods within city limits.  I am an urbanist to the core of my being.  I love cities so much that it pains me every time I see a new suburban development advertised or when I see that cities get the short end of the stick in social welfare.  Part of my love affair with cities is the social interaction that they create and foster.  This is the prime reason I refuse to own a car.  I see the need to walk around MY neighborhood and talk to MY neighbors.  I love the conversations I get into on the bus (or passenger rail if a city is so fortunate.)  I see the death of the car as imminent and I want to be there to rebuild our infrastructure.  I also realize the importance of public spaces within the city.  Streetscaping and public parks are integral to life in any city.  I want to help design, preserve, and update parks within the city...or help choose (or design) some unique street lighting or bike racks or garbage cans.

 

I think about all of this every hour of every day, and for the last three years it's been all that combined with Cincinnati.  I'm bursting at the prospect and I'm having trouble restraining myself from hopping on a bus to Cincinnati this weekend to establish residency ASAP.  The only thing holding me back is the threat of being one more homeless person in OTR (is that so bad?)

 

Where I'm at NOW:

  Right now, I'm in the absolute wrong program.  I have completed a year and a half of Architecture at UW-Milwaukee that included a semester of studio.  (I loved every minute of this program.) 

  Half way through the fourth semester, I began chatting with people about how I cared more about how buildings interact with their surrounding, and how people move though and around them, than the actual physical structures.  I couldn't care less how many mullions are in each window (or that number's religious significance.)

  The more people I spoke to, the more I kept hearing, "You're an Urban Planner."  A thought which amazingly had never come to my mind.  So, I started researching the Urban Planning route.

  The School of Architecture and Urban Planning (SARUP) at UWM does not have an Urban Planning undergraduate, but after speaking to a few Urban Planners, I was told that they prefer prospective students to have a diverse portfolio prior to applying to a Masters program (and that an Urban Planning undergrad is not required.)

  So, I transferred into Urban Geography (a degree in Letters & Sciences that I assumed was similar enough to prepare me for Urban Planning.)

  I quickly realized that Urban Geography is nowhere near challenging enough to stimulate me, or to reassure me that I'd have to tools to accomplish what I intend to.

  So, now I'm lost and stuck in a program that I ABSOLUTELY HATE.  I'm bored as hell and it's causing me to slack off.

  Ultimately I still want to go into some form of Transportation Planning or Urban Design.

 

Courses of Action:

  1) I could beg my way back into Architecture and finish out my undergraduate at UWM, then move to Cincinnati without a potential job and apply to DAAP at UC for whatever Design/Planning specialization is decided to best suit me.  (The drawback to this is that I'm SO stircrazy to be in Cincinnati.  You all have no clue how much I love that place.  And I'd have to go three more years without a real internship.)

  2) I could apply to DAAP's Architecture program (or Planning?) and use the co-op format to my advantage in getting a job within the city.  (The drawback to this is that I would probably have to take next semester off to apply for fall semester and to establish residency ASAP.)

  3) The other options are ones that I haven't even considered yet....PLEASE share your honest opinions.

 

What I'm asking for:

  What undergraduate/graduate programs do you recommend I take based on my aspirations stated above?

  What school(s) do you think I should go to for these degrees?

  When (semester, academic year or calendar year) should I move to Cincinnati?  (Remember I might go crazy if I stay away from Cincy for too long)

 

 

Any and all advice would be appreciated. 

 

Thank you in advance...and I appreciate you reading my long post.

DAAPs Grad Program is focused on Community Development so keep that in mind. There isn't very many studios but I know they teach you programs like autocad and sketchup for urban design.

 

There arent' many undergrad planning and urban design programs in this country unfortunately. Hayward pointed out that people usually get Planning and Urban Design degrees a lot of times to reinforce other degrees in stuff like Economics, Geography, Architecture, and LArch. I think that's changing since Planning is inevitably a growing field - cities are always going to change and grow and cities need people with a passion for planning.

 

I wouldn't be too worried about it. You're obviously very passionate about planning. You know, even if you end up in a program that isn't challenging enough for you or doesn't give you the exact focus you want; whatever you lack in coursework or experience, you make up for in enthusiasm and willingness to adapt.

"What undergraduate/graduate programs do you recommend I take based on my aspirations stated above? What school(s) do you think I should go to for these degrees?:

 

From everything you said, I'd recommend CSU's Levin Goodman College of Urban Affairs - ask any of the alumni who are on this forum http://urban.csuohio.edu/

 

And it's a short 4-hour trip from Cincy.

^ I always advocate for Levin because I had very positive experiences there.  However, for your purposes, there isn't an emphasis on transportation.  As I said in the other thread, musky designed his own program that focused on urban design.  Otherwise, you'd only be taking one design class as part of CSU's MUPDD program. 

 

That's not to say that a MUPDD wouldn't adequately prepare you for one of those positions.  There are a few alums who have been very successful in getting into transportation planning. 

 

I'd probably agree with David.  If you go to school for planning, the internship in your specific field, whether it be transportation or design, will make the difference.

Ok AJ, I am just seeing this for the first time.  But I think I can give you some advice on wanting to become an urban designer, since this is my current career aspiration and I have begun to attain this aspiration. 

 

If you want an education in urban design, I don't think UC's Grad. program is necessarily the answer.  However, they do have an urban design specialization (which I specialized in) and I took 4 studios in 2 years and had a great internship that turned into my current job.  I would look at Michigan's program. 

 

To become an urban designer, from my experience, you need the following skills (don't know if you already know this but I am going to throw it your way anyway):

 

AutoCAD, Adobe Creative Suite, Sketchup or other 3d rendering (not an absolute must but desired), sketch artist.  GIS is not a must for a designer although I think it is good to have as many GIS files end up acting as a base for illustrations. 

 

AT UC's grad program, you will learn everything except AutoCAD.  I taught myself that.  And thats essentially the name of the game, if you want it, you have to do it yourself.  Designers in general are snobby and will refuse to give you a chance at becoming an urban designer.  Thus, you have to do it yourself.  My boss is a landscape architect and it has taken me a while to gain his respect from a graphics stand point.  He is finally including me on design decisions and problem solving and now that he knows I know CAD, I am getting to produce things. 

 

Hhhmmm, well I don't know if you are still in architecture (the last time I talked to you, you were in architecture) but I would stay in it and finish and then get a masters in urban design or planning.  If you want to be an urban designer, coming from a design background will help.  I did not have a design background in undergrad. and thus have found it difficult to be taken seriously as an urban designer. 

 

Ok I am done, if you have any other quesitons, let me know.  Not sure if any of this helps, I feel like I went off on a few tangents.  Good luck in figuring out what you want to do.  You certainly have plenty of time to figure it out. 

Prokie....Why would you give up your career in "stalking"?  I was under the impression you loved being a creepy little mentally unstable over caffeinated drifter.

 

What a sad, sad day.  :cry:

Ok AJ, I am just seeing this for the first time. But I think I can give you some advice on wanting to become an urban designer, since this is my current career aspiration and I have begun to attain this aspiration.

 

If you want an education in urban design, I don't think UC's Grad. program is necessarily the answer. However, they do have an urban design specialization (which I specialized in) and I took 4 studios in 2 years and had a great internship that turned into my current job. I would look at Michigan's program.

 

To become an urban designer, from my experience, you need the following skills (don't know if you already know this but I am going to throw it your way anyway):

 

AutoCAD, Adobe Creative Suite, Sketchup or other 3d rendering (not an absolute must but desired), sketch artist. GIS is not a must for a designer although I think it is good to have as many GIS files end up acting as a base for illustrations.  

 

AT UC's grad program, you will learn everything except AutoCAD. I taught myself that. And thats essentially the name of the game, if you want it, you have to do it yourself. Designers in general are snobby and will refuse to give you a chance at becoming an urban designer. Thus, you have to do it yourself. My boss is a landscape architect and it has taken me a while to gain his respect from a graphics stand point. He is finally including me on design decisions and problem solving and now that he knows I know CAD, I am getting to produce things.

 

Hhhmmm, well I don't know if you are still in architecture (the last time I talked to you, you were in architecture) but I would stay in it and finish and then get a masters in urban design or planning. If you want to be an urban designer, coming from a design background will help. I did not have a design background in undergrad. and thus have found it difficult to be taken seriously as an urban designer.

 

Ok I am done, if you have any other quesitons, let me know. Not sure if any of this helps, I feel like I went off on a few tangents. Good luck in figuring out what you want to do. You certainly have plenty of time to figure it out.

 

Thanks Greg.  I think I'm on the right track.  I took a severe step in the wrong direction last year by going into Urban Geography...but I'm back in Architecture.  And now that I'm in "Level II" at UWM, there aren't any more hurdles to go through at UWM to get my degree. 

 

I guess I'm under the impression that my first real job will come during grad school, as you mentioned...and I really want to build my career in Cincinnati.  So, do you feel that the Grad program is bad enough to warrant going to a different city and potentially missing those Cincinnati connections?

 

 

Prokie....Why would you give up your career in "stalking"? I was under the impression you loved being a creepy little mentally unstable over caffeinated drifter.

 

What a sad, sad day.   :cry:

 

Cincinnati is 2 hours closer to Shaker Circle.  ;)

 

 

Prokie....Why would you give up your career in "stalking"?  I was under the impression you loved being a creepy little mentally unstable over caffeinated drifter.

 

What a sad, sad day.  :cry:

 

Cincinnati is 2 hours closer to Shaker Circle Square.  ;)

 

 

FINISH YOUR ARCH UNDERGRAD.

FINISH YOUR ARCH UNDERGRAD.

FINISH YOUR ARCH UNDERGRAD.

 

If I haven't made myself clear, FINISH YOUR ARCH UNDERGRAD.

 

Then, get a MASTERS DEGREE in Urban Planning or Urban Design. It doesn't matter which, as long as it's studio based and well regarded. I'd look at Georgia Tech, Harvard, Berkeley, Cincinnati, U of Miami, FL...

 

DO NOT GET A PLANNING UNDERGRAD. This is what I did and it's the WRONG order of operations. You need that practical construction and design education both in practice and on paper, for people to take you seriously as an Urban Designer.

 

So, once again...FINISH YOUR ARCH UNDERGRAD.

 

AJ, I am not saying the UC Grad program is bad.  it is well regarded and highly ranked.  It is not studio based but you can make it such if you take studios as electives.  But you are only required to take one.  If I were you, I would look elsewhere and try to get into a studio based grad. program (have you looked at Larch programs?) and then try to get a co-op in Cincinnati.  Just because you go to school in Cincinnati doesn't mean you'll get a co-op there.  I got mine in Indy while living in Cincy. 

 

But if you think going to the grad. program is the best way to make connections, then go for it, you can make it a studio based experience. 

 

  Nowdays they call it the City of Cincinnati Department of Transportation and Engineering.

 

  This group deals mainly with streets and public spaces rather than buildings. Pavement, drainage, traffic, and utilities are the main line of work.

 

  Oh, the City of Cincinnati has a hiring freeze right now.

 

 

^Yeah, wanted to repeat that. I would not look for a city job in Cincinnati any time soon -- for at least two years, due to a hiring freeze and a worsening budget. It's not going to look good for the next fiscal year -- including Hamilton County.

 

In relation to the courses, I talked to an adviser at UC a few weeks ago about potentially entering their urban planning masters program. I have a BS in Decision Science and Information Systems from the Gatton College of Business & Economics at UK, and they replied,

 

"That would be wonderful and I'm sure you'd have no trouble getting in."

 

Apparently, they are flooded with people who took the Architecture -> Urban Planning path, but cannot find jobs due to the depressed markets. They are looking for people who have a variety of backgrounds -- but since you are on a path you see fit and like, I'd finish the Architecture degree.

Cool, thanks for the tips.  I'm definitely finishing my Arch undergrad...there's no changing that.  I'll be picking Grad schools next summer, so I've got this whole year to do research.  We're looking at two years until Grad school, so we'll see where the jobs are by then. 

 

As far as working for the city...it was more of an option than a direct goal.  I just want to make sure I land a job within the city.  I'll enjoy working at an Architecture firm in Cincinnati too.  (I have connections with GBBN, but they seem to like big projects.  I'd prefer to do rehabs in OTR) 

 

I really appreciate the tips, and I feel like I'm back on the right track, so thank you everybody.