1 hour ago, taestell said:

Update from ground level, taken today:

This is going to add such a huge presence to sycamore street. The best part is there still quite a few lots left to develop on that block…so I’m extremely happy that we didn’t get a super block project. 

I had only really seen this building from Sycamore, where it looks really nice, but I kind of hate the East face of it and the fact that the Levine owned lot still exists. This project is great, but there is still a lot of parking lot in the area. 

 

Well, hopefully it is only a matter of time before the Levines decide to develop their lots as well. I give the developer credit for moving ahead with an apartment building on the one lot they were able to acquire rather than waiting (potentially years) until they could acquire one or more of the adjacent lots to build a bigger building.

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

I had only really seen this building from Sycamore, where it looks really nice, but I kind of hate the East face of it and the fact that the Levine owned lot still exists. This project is great, but there is still a lot of parking lot in the area. 

 

IMO this is a good thing. If they ate most of the parking lot it would be a giant super block. With available lots you at least give this portion of sycamore street to have a more unique street scape with various architecture design instead of one giant building. 
 

 

1 hour ago, taestell said:

Well, hopefully it is only a matter of time before the Levines decide to develop their lots as well. I give the developer credit for moving ahead with an apartment building on the one lot they were able to acquire rather than waiting (potentially years) until they could acquire one or more of the adjacent lots to build a bigger building.

Yeah that's a really good point, and also feels like a direct shot at former OTR Kroger lot... 

County puts $1.4 million into housing

 

Hamilton County has awarded $1.4 million to five affordable housing projects in the city of Cincinnati and Lockland.

 

Commissioners voted unanimously on Thursday to award the funding.

 

Under the plan:

• The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority and Urban Sites will receive $500,000 for Bennett Point at 532 and 600 E. 12th St. in Pendleton. More than 85% of the units at the $17 million project will be affordable for those earning 60% of the median income. The development will include a workout facility, rooftop lay area and a public laundromat, with construction expected to be complete in late 2022.

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/08/30/county-puts-1-4-million-into-housing.html

 

Bennett Point might just be the most unattractive building ever approved for the OTR or Pendleton Historic Districts. (I'd be interested in "runners up"). It lacks most all of the historic conservation guidelines described in the literature and will be a stain on the neighborhood until it disintegrates and is torn down probably less than 20 years from now. I guess it is all they could do to import some low income units into the neighborhood.

Edited September 5, 20213 yr by 1400 Sycamore

1 hour ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

Bennett Point might just be the most unattractive building ever approved for the OTR or Pendleton Historic Districts. (I'd be interested in "runners up"). It lacks most all of the historic conservation guidelines described in the literature and will be a stain on the neighborhood until it disintegrates and is torn down probably less than 20 years from now. I guess it is all they could do to import some low income units into the neighborhood.

It looks like the HamCo jail.

The slip lane from EB Liberty to 13th street is in the process of being removed. And bumpouts have been added to the 13th St crosswalks at Frank and Reading. 

 

I like seeing these pedestrian improvements! With the slip lane removed, that triangular "park" will be much larger. I hope they add a bunch of trees to make that space more attractive. There are no utility lines along the sidewalks of this corner, so hopefully whatever trees are planted, they can grow big and tall over the coming decades without the looming threat of being butchered by the utility companies. Sadly, the triangular park will still be surrounded by fast traffic on Liberty and Reading, so I doubt it will be a fun place to hang out. But any day a slip lane is removed is a good day.

 

 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

The slip lane from EB Liberty to 13th street is in the process of being removed. And bumpouts have been added to the 13th St crosswalks at Frank and Reading. 

 

I like seeing these pedestrian improvements! With the slip lane removed, that triangular "park" will be much larger. I hope they add a bunch of trees to make that space more attractive. There are no utility lines along the sidewalks of this corner, so hopefully whatever trees are planted, they can grow big and tall over the coming decades without the looming threat of being butchered by the utility companies. Sadly, the triangular park will still be surrounded by fast traffic on Liberty and Reading, so I doubt it will be a fun place to hang out. But any day a slip lane is removed is a good day.

 

 

 

 

 

would love to see new development on that triangle lot. No need for it be a park. It doesn’t ever get used. 

On 9/7/2021 at 12:21 PM, Troeros2 said:

would love to see new development on that triangle lot. No need for it be a park. It doesn’t ever get used.

 

Love it, Pendleton could have it's very own miniature Flatiron Building. 

Some updated photos from 12th and Sycamore yesterday

Random, I know, but I was looking at SSC and came across this strange factoid:

 

As years go by, architecture remains the thing that outlasts the past as much as it defines it — such as an 1850 Cincinnati structure known as the Pendleton that’s home to the oldest apartments in the U.S.

...

The oldest apartment building on our list is the quaint Pendleton in Cincinnati, OH. Dating back to before the Civil War, the red brick structure is alive with residents inhabiting its 78 rental units. And it’s not just the 171-year-old Pendleton that still has some life left in it! Some of today’s apartment communities witnessed the glitz and innovation of the Gilded Age, while others rode out two World Wars.

 

 

https://www.rentcafe.com/blog/rental-market/market-snapshots/oldest-apartment-buildings-in-the-united-states/

 

Is this true???  Is this America's oldest continuously inhabited apartment building?  If so, huh. 

I was very interested in this listing because I had remembered hearing that the oldest apartment buildings in the US were the Upper Pontalba buildings surrounding Jackson Square in New Orleans. They were also built in 1850 and those appear no where in the article. The article also listed the 10 oldest apartment buildings in Cincinnati, with number 10 on the list only being 99 years old. My building in OTR is almost 130 years old and wasn't mentioned.

 

Turns out, the article is a bit misleading. The authors only analyzed apartment buildings with 50+ units. 

Edited November 19, 20213 yr by OliverHazardPerry

I could see that being true, also the building nearby at 1121-23 Broadway was built as an army barracks in 1850 and still rents as well, but must have less than 50 units. 

While browsing the Hamilton County Auditor's site, I discovered that a company called Pendleton Housing Partners LP based in Seattle has purchased a portfolio of 18 properties in Pendleton for a grand total of $5,700,000 on 8/23. The prior owner was Pendleton III Affordable LLC. (The owner before that was Those Are My Everyday Balloons LLC, which appears to be a Seinfeld joke.)

 

I don't recall seeing any announcements about this, so does anyone know what's going on with these properties?

1 hour ago, taestell said:

While browsing the Hamilton County Auditor's site, I discovered that a company called Pendleton Housing Partners LP based in Seattle has purchased a portfolio of 18 properties in Pendleton for a grand total of $5,700,000 on 8/23. The prior owner was Pendleton III Affordable LLC. (The owner before that was Those Are My Everyday Balloons LLC, which appears to be a Seinfeld joke.)

 

I don't recall seeing any announcements about this, so does anyone know what's going on with these properties?

I noticed that as well but haven’t been able to find any details about the new owners. 

Someone I know found this on the Ohio Housing Finance Agency website [pdf]: https://ohiohome.org/ppd/proposals/2021/HTC/PendletonIIIApartments.pdf

It looks like Pendleton III Affordable is owned by Belveron Partners, a San Francisco based affordable housing developer.
Pendleton Housing Partners is linked to the Vitus group, a Seattle based affordable housing developer.

On 12/17/2021 at 10:59 AM, Dev said:

Someone I know found this on the Ohio Housing Finance Agency website [pdf]: https://ohiohome.org/ppd/proposals/2021/HTC/PendletonIIIApartments.pdf

It looks like Pendleton III Affordable is owned by Belveron Partners, a San Francisco based affordable housing developer.
Pendleton Housing Partners is linked to the Vitus group, a Seattle based affordable housing developer.

 

 

"At closing, the HAP contract will be renewed for a 20-year term, subject to federal appropriations."

 

Not good news.

19 minutes ago, Miami-Erie said:

 

 

"At closing, the HAP contract will be renewed for a 20-year term, subject to federal appropriations."

 

Not good news.

There is nothing wrong with a HAP contract. Typically, they have to be kept up according to reasonable standards and are subject to mulitple inspections every year. Tenants who rent under these contracts tend to be good tenants who in exchange for rental assistance have to keep their spaces in good condition.  Having good mixed use housing in the area is a good thing. 

Quote

On 12/17/2021 at 7:59 AM, Dev said:

Someone I know found this on the Ohio Housing Finance Agency website [pdf]: https://ohiohome.org/ppd/proposals/2021/HTC/PendletonIIIApartments.pdf

It looks like Pendleton III Affordable is owned by Belveron Partners, a San Francisco based affordable housing developer.
Pendleton Housing Partners is linked to the Vitus group, a Seattle based affordable housing developer.

 

 

"At closing, the HAP contract will be renewed for a 20-year term, subject to federal appropriations."

 

Not good news.

Why?  Are those groups known for not running good operations or not maintaining their properties?

2 minutes ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Why?  Are those groups known for not running good operations or not maintaining their properties?

The only thing I can think of with the HAP contract is that the property will not have any significant renovations that occur and it will not be turned into higher end apartments for the next 20 years while it is subject to the HAP contract. You will not see some major renovation to high end condos. Other than that, I dont see the problem with a HAP contract. It ensures the property is going to be maintained as is at least. 

HAP contract is a pretty weird animal. Normal anti-discrimination rules apply, but not CMHA's waiting list. An owner with a HAP contract can put your grandma from Florida in his building as long as he can qualify her income wise. That provides great flexibility. And, with flexibility come better tenants.

 

Also, the inspection protocols from REAC are pretty rigorous.

 

Termination early is a pretty complicated topic. The Section 8 Renewal Policy Handbook is the bible on this.

Edited December 20, 20213 yr by 1400 Sycamore

A little bit surprising to see this locked in for another 20 years for all of these buildings. I would expect to see more mixed-income development in Pendleton, like what 3CDC has been doing in several of their recent projects in OTR.

5 hours ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

HAP contract is a pretty weird animal. Normal anti-discrimination rules apply, but not CMHA's waiting list. An owner with a HAP contract can put your grandma from Florida in his building as long as he can qualify her income wise. That provides great flexibility. And, with flexibility come better tenants.

 

Also, the inspection protocols from REAC are pretty rigorous.

 

Termination early is a pretty complicated topic. The Section 8 Renewal Policy Handbook is the bible on this.

In many cases it is almost easier to renew a HAP contract then terminate because unwinding it is a challenge from what i have seen.

On 12/17/2021 at 10:59 AM, Dev said:

Someone I know found this on the Ohio Housing Finance Agency website [pdf]: https://ohiohome.org/ppd/proposals/2021/HTC/PendletonIIIApartments.pdf

It looks like Pendleton III Affordable is owned by Belveron Partners, a San Francisco based affordable housing developer.
Pendleton Housing Partners is linked to the Vitus group, a Seattle based affordable housing developer.

 

 

That PDF says the project includes:

• 2 two-story
  • 1320 PENDLETON ST
  • probably one of the other buildings has a portion of the building that is only 2 stories
• 12 three-story
  • 1347 BROADWAY
  • 1336 BROADWAY
  • 404 E THIRTEENTH ST (3.5 story)
  • 409 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 415 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 1210 SPRING ST
  • 421 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 430 E TWELFTH ST
  • 511 E TWELFTH ST
  • 513 E TWELFTH ST
  • 210 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • probably one of the buildings has a portion of the building that is 3 stories
• 5 four-story
  • 500 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 411 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 413 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 557 E THIRTEENTH ST (includes entire "flatiron" building at 563 E 13th)
  • 500 E TWELFTH ST

And across those buildings there are 78 units:

• 11 studios
• 12 one-bedrooms
• 4 two-bedrooms
• 21 three-bedrooms
• 8 four-bedrooms
• 2 five-bedrooms

Additionally, they own the empty lot at 402 E THIRTEENTH ST.

 

That linked PDF says that the hard construction costs are $10,491,555, which when spread across 78 units comes out to ~$135,000 per unit. To me, that sounds like they're going to be pretty substantially renovated, with presumably all new windows and mechanicals. As long as the properties are well managed, this could be good for the neighborhood. Wish we knew more about the owner/manager.

Edited December 20, 20213 yr by jwulsin

3 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

In many cases it is almost easier to renew a HAP contract then terminate because unwinding it is a challenge from what i have seen.

1400 Sycamore was a non renewed HAP. Tenants were given the 1 year notice, and relocated, and we paid moving expenses. No big deal.

 

Oh, and the HAP allocation was then assigned so HUD did not lose the subsidy.

Edited December 21, 20213 yr by 1400 Sycamore

3 hours ago, jwulsin said:

 

 

That PDF says the project includes:

• 2 two-story
  • 1320 PENDLETON ST
  • probably one of the other buildings has a portion of the building that is only 2 stories
• 12 three-story
  • 1347 BROADWAY
  • 1336 BROADWAY
  • 404 E THIRTEENTH ST (3.5 story)
  • 409 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 415 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 1210 SPRING ST
  • 421 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 430 E TWELFTH ST
  • 511 E TWELFTH ST
  • 513 E TWELFTH ST
  • 210 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • probably one of the buildings has a portion of the building that is 3 stories
• 5 four-story
  • 500 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 411 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 413 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 557 E THIRTEENTH ST (includes entire "flatiron" building at 563 E 13th)
  • 500 E TWELFTH ST

And across those buildings there are 78 units:

• 11 studios
• 12 one-bedrooms
• 4 two-bedrooms
• 21 three-bedrooms
• 8 four-bedrooms
• 2 five-bedrooms

Additionally, they own the empty lot at 402 E THIRTEENTH ST.

 

That linked PDF says that the hard construction costs are $10,491,555, which when spread across 78 units comes out to ~$135,000 per unit. To me, that sounds like they're going to be pretty substantially renovated, with presumably all new windows and mechanicals. As long as the properties are well managed, this could be good for the neighborhood. Wish we knew more about the owner/manager.

1347 Broadway just had a dumpster delivered out front and there is a permit online for a full rehab of the building and units  

Glad to hear that there will actually be a substantial investment in these properties.

Here's the CRA tax exemption the developer received from the City back in May. The document incudes a few more details on the developer/project:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1tvqfkjcpzx6jd/188-2021 T.pdf?dl=0

 

 

On 12/20/2021 at 2:59 PM, jwulsin said:

 

 

That PDF says the project includes:

• 2 two-story
  • 1320 PENDLETON ST
  • probably one of the other buildings has a portion of the building that is only 2 stories
• 12 three-story
  • 1347 BROADWAY
  • 1336 BROADWAY
  • 404 E THIRTEENTH ST (3.5 story)
  • 409 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 415 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 1210 SPRING ST
  • 421 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 430 E TWELFTH ST
  • 511 E TWELFTH ST
  • 513 E TWELFTH ST
  • 210 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • probably one of the buildings has a portion of the building that is 3 stories
• 5 four-story
  • 500 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 411 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 413 E THIRTEENTH ST
  • 557 E THIRTEENTH ST (includes entire "flatiron" building at 563 E 13th)
  • 500 E TWELFTH ST

And across those buildings there are 78 units:

• 11 studios
• 12 one-bedrooms
• 4 two-bedrooms
• 21 three-bedrooms
• 8 four-bedrooms
• 2 five-bedrooms

Additionally, they own the empty lot at 402 E THIRTEENTH ST.

 

That linked PDF says that the hard construction costs are $10,491,555, which when spread across 78 units comes out to ~$135,000 per unit. To me, that sounds like they're going to be pretty substantially renovated, with presumably all new windows and mechanicals. As long as the properties are well managed, this could be good for the neighborhood. Wish we knew more about the owner/manager.

 

Willkommen is over $300,000 per unit. 
 

$135,000 is pretty low. 
 

HAP contracts held down many buildings in OTR for a long time due to their inflexibility. Just look at the Columbia building’s issues and how difficult it was to renovate because of its HAP.

 

As I see it, an out of state investor and unfamiliar manager is spending a pretty low price per unit to keep these units locked in for 20 years. I hope I’m wrong. 
 

More information about this project would be nice. Where’s local

journalism?

2 hours ago, Miami-Erie said:

Willkommen is over $300,000 per unit. 
 

$135,000 is pretty low. 

 

The $135k number is only for "hard construction costs". If you compare total project costs (including acquisition, and soft costs) they're very similar.

 

Willkommen: $50.8m across 163 units: $311k/unit

Pendleton Housing Partners: $24,691,335 across 78 units: $316,555/unit

 

But I agree with your concerns about an out-of-state investor who doesn't appear to have local connections to the community. 

Edited December 22, 20213 yr by jwulsin

The Industry apartments are listed for rent beginning in March. Some serious rent $.

up to $1588/mo for a studio lol. People will pay it I'm sure, but that's nuts.

That's far too much for a studio. 

Was really excited for this project as I'm actively looking for an apartment or a house to rent. The 2 bedrooms are even more insane. They were basically $3,000 or more when I last checked.

It's pretty much impossible to find anything downtown for a reasonable price at this point. 

8 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

up to $1588/mo for a studio lol. People will pay it I'm sure, but that's nuts.

Will be curious how these buildings continue to lease over the coming months and years. I think the market will soon be getting a bit saturated with these kinds of high end units. This building will also be coming online around the same time as The Artistry project on the riverfront. I do know 4th and Race is doing well.

Edited January 10, 20223 yr by 646empire

7 hours ago, 646empire said:

Will be curious how these buildings continue to lease over the coming months and years. I think the market will soon be getting a bit saturated with these kinds of high end units. This building will also be coming online around the same time as The Artistry project on the riverfront. I do know 4th and Race is doing well.

 

If I remember correctly, the Artistry was not trying to go after the top of the market. They should be a little more affordable.

 

7 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

If I remember correctly, the Artistry was not trying to go after the top of the market. They should be a little more affordable.

 

 

Edited January 10, 20223 yr by savadams13

I'm not surprised that rents are rising this much considering how crazy the real estate market is getting in Pendleton/OTR/CBD. There are some 1 and 2 bedroom condos that are relatively affordable, but if you're looking for something with more square footage (which is kind-of essential these days for people who spend a lot of time working from home), the costs are absolutely insane.

I think that is pretty high for a studio. I think my one bedrooms are about 900 sq. ft. and they range from 1500 to 1850 depending on view in a much nicer building.

16 hours ago, RealAdamP said:

Was really excited for this project as I'm actively looking for an apartment or a house to rent. The 2 bedrooms are even more insane. They were basically $3,000 or more when I last checked.

 

I just checked the site, the 2 bedrooms still available are $3700/month.

 

For comparison sake, $3700/month puts you in the ballpark of about a $600,000 home - depending upon the exact property taxes, insurance, down payment, etc. In Cincinnati, that's enough to live pretty much anywhere except Indian Hill.

That's the reality of new construction these days regardless of where you are. Unless you cut corners, you need to charge those prices to actually make it worthwhile to invest.

 

It's causing a lot of problems for a ton of my projects. I have around 25 different projects across the US and my team is currently managing 100+ ground up buildings, ranging from 100-700 units, and the vast majority of them are having or have had financing issues because costs have risen so much that the rents that would need to be charged to make up for it are so much higher than where we were a couple years ago, even in markets like NYC and LA, and don't align with the goals of the project or realities of the market.

 

I'll be curious to see how this leases up. I honestly don't expect it to have any issues really. But this is going to be the norm for the foreseeable future for ground up construction. Not much way around it unfortunately.

I don’t care what anyone says but those prices are absolutely insane.

 

Im not even treading on the fact that this stretch still sees consistent patches of violence and shootings thanks to tree house and company.

 

3,700 dollars? That is mid range nyc prices for some apartments/studios. This is Cincinnati, not a major metropolis, and I will be absolutely shocked to see this completely leased out without a major price reduction. 

4 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I don’t care what anyone says but those prices are absolutely insane.

 

Im not even treading on the fact that this stretch still sees consistent patches of violence and shootings thanks to tree house and company.

 

3,700 dollars? That is mid range nyc prices for some apartments/studios. This is Cincinnati, not a major metropolis, and I will be absolutely shocked to see this completely leased out without a major price reduction. 

$3,700/month for a two bedroom in a new construction building in a cool, central neighborhood is absolutely nothing like what you get in NYC in terms of pricing. You might get that in the outer boroughs, but for the OTR/Pendleton equivalent you'd be looking at at least 50% higher prices.

 

We have two bedroom, ground up leasing in tertiary markets a fraction of the scale of Cincinnati renting at that rate. Those are no longer prices only seen in a "major metropolis" for better or worse (worse in my mind, it's a huge issue).

 

I doubt this will have issues leasing up based on what I've seen and hear from our real estate and underwriting teams. A typical one year lease up will likely happen here and that'll be that.

There are plenty of people in Cincinnati a couple years out of college making $100-200k salary with money to spend. I don't doubt it will lease out. But it's nuts that I was paying $700/month for a 2-bedroom on Main Street OTR from 2011-2014. Obviously there was new construction like at The Banks that was renting for a lot more at the same time. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around that kind of money for rent, though. 

 

You've pretty much always had to find an old apartment building that hasn't been renovated in 10+ years to get any apartment for under $1000. Everything centrally located is being renovated nowadays to take advantage of the high rents available, so the unrenovated apartments are only found further and further out. And new construction will always be even more expensive.

I mean, is it just going to be people with high-paying jobs renting these or people with other money?

2 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

I mean, is it just going to be people with high-paying jobs renting these or people with other money?

I can't speak for this building, but I can speak for the demographics we rent to which are likely almost perfectly on par with who will be renting here as this type of building makes up about half of our 12,000 unit porfolio.

 

Our average tenant is around 32 and makes between $90,000-$95,000. It fluctuates by market and year, but right now it's on the high end of that and in many markets has shifted above the six digit average income.

 

A $3,700/month apartment would traditionally be considered "affordable" to a household making $148,000. A single successful person or a couple each making a good salary could afford this. It's a lot of money relative to how affordable Cincy used to be, but the city is basically playing quick catch up to the rest of the country that's already charging these rents.

In the past (2000s-2010s) I would say that it's hard to find people under 30-35 making that kind of money outside of healthcare and some specific technical positions, but now that the labor market has been nuked by rapid Boomer retirements, a lack of new young people coming up due to extended low birth rates and COVID that you're going to start seeing a lot fewer college graduates stuck pouring the coffee until 35-40.