Who was the architect? I like the building design and art installations (the "tulips").

Am I the only one who thought the design of the light-stands might have drawn inspiration from the Great Lakes Exposition?

Maybe I'm looking too hard into this :)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^ Nope that's exactly what I got from it as well. Can't be a coincidence.

Just noticed something about the trains in the pictures... apparently the rendering is calling for expansion of Acela service to Cleveland as well as upgrading the WFL to heavy rail

 

Wow...I wish this could be done by June 1st like everything else in this city! :-P

Just noticed something about the trains in the pictures... apparently the rendering is calling for expansion of Acela service to Cleveland as well as upgrading the WFL to heavy rail

 

 

Wouldn't that be fun!

Not as cool as the wavy concept that KJP posted a couple pages back, but it's still good. In fact, this proposed version seems to very close to the site plan of phase 1 of the early concept:

 

 

Soooo, with that said, is there any possibility of a second phase with a new attached Amtrak building, similar to this?:

 

While I appreciate public transit investment and your effort KJP, I'd prefer a $38 million investment to go towards increasing service frequency & Capital investment for RTA (replacing the rail cars, catching up on deferred rail maintenance). Alas, TIGER funding doesn't go to this (please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

 

 

I would also prefer a direct connection from NCTC to the Convention Center through an enclosed, overhead walkway above the tracks.  But clearly, this would be a major start.

While I appreciate public transit investment and your effort KJP, I'd prefer a $38 million investment to go towards increasing service frequency & Capital investment for RTA (replacing the rail cars, catching up on deferred rail maintenance). Alas, TIGER funding doesn't go to this (please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

 

TIGER can't go for operating costs. It can go for capital improvements, not state of good repair projects. Unifying intercity and intercounty transportation modes in a comfortable, accessible, affordable facility addresses one of the many important transit needs of Northeast Ohio. We can't solve them all at once nor with any and all pots of money.

Hmmm....a Greyhound Station at the foot, and to the west of, E 9th Street.  If it had to be on the lakefront, it should be to the east of E 9th Street, out near Muni Lot.  The current Amtrak station is an eyesore, completely scars Cleveland's burgeoning lakefront area. 

 

 

It can't be east of East 9th without reconfiguring tracks and changing railroad operations. Involving the freight railroads in a project that doesn't financially benefit them is a sure way to reduce the project's speed and raise the project's cost to insufferable levels. The city wants this built soon, without breaking the bank and in a setting that's accessible to pedestrians from several directions and from important pedestrian destinations. That's not possible east of East 9th.

Hmmm....a Greyhound Station at the foot, and to the west of, E 9th Street.  If it had to be on the lakefront, it should be to the east of E 9th Street, out near Muni Lot.  The current Amtrak station is an eyesore, completely scars Cleveland's burgeoning lakefront area. 

 

 

It can't be east of East 9th without reconfiguring tracks and changing railroad operations. Involving the freight railroads in a project that doesn't financially benefit them is a sure way to reduce the project's speed and raise the project's cost to insufferable levels. The city wants this built soon, without breaking the bank and in a setting that's accessible to pedestrians from several directions and from important pedestrian destinations. That's not possible east of East 9th.

 

Just having a concern about the Greyhound Station on the lakefront.  So this will be the WFL and Greyhound with access to the Amtrak Station?  Megabus etc?

^ No Megabus

Sorry to be stupid... what's WFL?  I missed the acronym definition somewhere...

 

Sorry to be stupid... what's WFL?  I missed the acronym definition somewhere...

Water front line

World Football League.

Duh.. Waterfront Line.  Sorry...

 

I just noticed at the link you provided that Greyhound's "letter of support" is pretty lukewarm.

 

 

Couple questions (please forgive my ignorance):

1) What is the timeframe for the grant?

2) Why would the project take so long to complete?

3) This project, while amazing, doesn't seem to justify the largest TIGER grant in history, when considered in the context of our entire country ($500 million total for 2015). The $500 million provided by TIGER grants was matched by $900 million in investment in the supported transportation projects. Our 80% support ratio seems skewed in this context.

4) Considering question #3, is there a contingency when they agree to give us $15-18 million to support the project? I came up with that number based on the ratio of TIGER funding to total investments in 2015.

 

I really hope this gets done, as this project would be another game changer and step towards revitalizing our lakefront. Thanks!

1. Don't know the timeframe for TIGER grants. I've never heard of them having a sunset. But sometimes Congress will recall all unobligated grants or portions thereof awardedo before a certain date.

 

2. Because the funding would also be for environmental planning and engineering which hasn't been done yet. That's probably the biggest factor working against the city in the feds' awarding the money.

 

3. Politics may sway the feds as much or more than the project's attributes. It's certainly an aggressive grant application.

 

4. They city will have several choices if they don't get as much funding as they've sought -- scale back the project; seek other funding; or perhaps pursue a little of both.

 

Cleveland's $37 million TIGER grant application for the Lakefront Multimodal Transportation Center was not approved. Not even a portion of it was funded. I hope the city will reapply. But more so, I hope the city will actually put some real money into its local match. Using city property as the local match apparently wasn't enough....

Hey KJP--just out of curiosity, what financing methods did Pittsburgh use to get their bus station/Amtrak facility done?

Hey KJP--just out of curiosity, what financing methods did Pittsburgh use to get their bus station/Amtrak facility done?

 

The Amtrak station is separate, but close by. It's just across Liberty Avenue inside the old Pennsylvania Station. I believe that PennDOT funded most of that project about 25 years ago. PennDOT continues to put large amounts of funding (hundreds of millions of dollars) into Amtrak stations across the state. The Grant Street Transportation Center has the Greyhound station on the ground floor of a new city-owned parking garage bond-financed by parking revenues and a Greyhound lease.

Hey KJP--just out of curiosity, what financing methods did Pittsburgh use to get their bus station/Amtrak facility done?

 

The Amtrak station is separate, but close by. It's just across Liberty Avenue inside the old Pennsylvania Station. I believe that PennDOT funded most of that project about 25 years ago. PennDOT continues to put large amounts of funding (hundreds of millions of dollars) into Amtrak stations across the state. The Grant Street Transportation Center has the Greyhound station on the ground floor of a new city-owned parking garage bond-financed by parking revenues and a Greyhound lease.

 

Sound feasible in Cleveland, right?

It's plenty feasible.  The only obstacle is leadership choosing not to do it, and leadership is fleeting.  Theoretically.

This is very disappointing. So Cleveland wins a TIGER grant for a bunch of hiking trails especially one next to our financially struggling Red Line but fails to win money for a REAL transportation project like NCTC.

 

I'm not an expert in the TIGER application and awards process, but I will bet much of it comes down to local enthusiasm. And in Cleveland, if we go by the np columns (by Steve Litt, esp) and public official pronouncements advocating the Red Line Greenway as opposed to NCTC, where there has been litle but confusion, apathy and even opposition, (save All Aboard Ohio which continues to be the Voice in the wilderness on pro-transit issues), I'm not surprised why projects like the Greenway and the Opportunity Corridor (not a TIGER program but similar as a big local transportation project) move forward while pro-rail projects go nowhere.

 

...and now we can't even get people like Litt or any local pol to speak up to support funding to even save public transit. The message is: Cleveland hates mass transit and loves just about any other transportation that doesn't involve transit...amazing; sad ... and foolish.

I'll be honest, I'm glad the greyhound isn't moving (yet). I'm on that bus once a month, and that proposed location by 90 just doesn't work for travelers. Even though Chester and 14th feels a little desolate, there are some characters with the usual panhandling inquiries, and the narrow walk to Euclid or E9 too isolated (with all the garages and subsidized housing nearby), it's still far easier to get to and leave for Tower City.

Anyone know if the Mall to Science-Center pedestrian bridge is still a go? If its still under-review, then I have a more modest (in terms of flair) proposal. Build a wide bridge covered in grass from the Mall, Cleveland City Hall, Willard Park over top of Amtrak and the shoreway, and connect it to Browns, Science Center, Rock Hall. Have the bridge be covered in greenery, grass, plants, walkways, sculptures, maybe a cafe or two. Also, tie it into the convention center tunnels, and build a connector (elevator/escalator) to Amtrak/Greyhound.

 

(sorry if I or others have proposed such a thing, and its get down-voted, but I figure with the Amtrak tiger fund getting cancelled, then project can be rethought).

I

This is very disappointing. So Cleveland wins a TIGER grant for a bunch of hiking trails especially one next to our financially struggling Red Line but fails to win money for a REAL transportation project like NCTC.

 

I'm not an expert in the TIGER application and awards process, but I will bet much of it comes down to local enthusiasm. And in Cleveland, if we go by the np columns (by Steve Litt, esp) and public official pronouncements advocating the Red Line Greenway as opposed to NCTC, where there has been litle but confusion, apathy and even opposition, (save All Aboard Ohio which continues to be the Voice in the wilderness on pro-transit issues), I'm not surprised why projects like the Greenway and the Opportunity Corridor (not a TIGER program but similar as a big local transportation project) move forward while pro-rail projects go nowhere.

 

...and now we can't even get people like Litt or any local pol to speak up to support funding to even save public transit. The message is: Cleveland hates mass transit and loves just about any other transportation that doesn't involve transit...amazing; sad ... and foolish.

 

No, it comes down to the application and local support. It isn't just a "hiking trail" - which isn't even a truthful term, but the northernmost segment of the Ohio to Erie Trail. There are years of engineering that has gone into the implementation and planning of the bike/pedestrian corridor, which includes a new linear park, rehabilitation of existing deteriorated parks, and connectivity to other bicycle facilities.

 

Just because your pet project didn't make the TIGER grant doesn't mean that it will never happen. After all, look how long it took for the Cincinnati Streetcar to get off of the ground with a combination of funding sources - including TIGER. It's competitive.

I

This is very disappointing. So Cleveland wins a TIGER grant for a bunch of hiking trails especially one next to our financially struggling Red Line but fails to win money for a REAL transportation project like NCTC.

 

I'm not an expert in the TIGER application and awards process, but I will bet much of it comes down to local enthusiasm. And in Cleveland, if we go by the np columns (by Steve Litt, esp) and public official pronouncements advocating the Red Line Greenway as opposed to NCTC, where there has been litle but confusion, apathy and even opposition, (save All Aboard Ohio which continues to be the Voice in the wilderness on pro-transit issues), I'm not surprised why projects like the Greenway and the Opportunity Corridor (not a TIGER program but similar as a big local transportation project) move forward while pro-rail projects go nowhere.

 

...and now we can't even get people like Litt or any local pol to speak up to support funding to even save public transit. The message is: Cleveland hates mass transit and loves just about any other transportation that doesn't involve transit...amazing; sad ... and foolish.

 

No, it comes down to the application and local support. It isn't just a "hiking trail" - which isn't even a truthful term, but the northernmost segment of the Ohio to Erie Trail. There are years of engineering that has gone into the implementation and planning of the bike/pedestrian corridor, which includes a new linear park, rehabilitation of existing deteriorated parks, and connectivity to other bicycle facilities.

 

Just because your pet project didn't make the TIGER grant doesn't mean that it will never happen. After all, look how long it took for the Cincinnati Streetcar to get off of the ground with a combination of funding sources - including TIGER. It's competitive.

 

The Ohio to Erie trail is fine in my book.  The Red Line Greenway is weird to me (running a hiking trail next to a live rapid rail line that is mainly in an open cut ditch) and it wasn't that many years in the making; there was even some talk at one time of eliminating some of the tracks on the Red Line's viaduct to make it easier for hikers to walk into Tower City or whatever.  It's salt in the wound that, while this "Greenway" is being funding, nobody seems to be able to find funding for the transit system running the Red Line itself and the level of interest in finding such funding seems very low.

 

The NCTC isn't my "pet project," but it is an important project toward advancing rail.  We haven't been able to get any positive rail project done in recent years, save the relocation of the E. 120 Red Line Stop to Little Italy -- I don't count the station rebuilds on their existing site (University-Cedar, Woodhill, Brookpark, etc) as advancing or expanding rail.  You can't deny there always seems to be a groundswell of support and consensus for road or hiking trail but none for rail.  The confusion about NCTC (should it be East or West of E. 9th street? Is there interest only because a private developer wants Greyhound's current property? etc) certainly had some influence on the TIGER grantors.

 

The Cincinnati Streetcar is a bad example.  There had been local political fighting over whether to move forward with it at all including, IIRC, opposition from Cincy's current mayor.  It's almost a miracle that the line is even being built.  Here again, though, the Cincinnati's "controversy" regarding the streetcar is not unlike the opposition and strife regarding rail projects in Cleveland -- the only difference is that in Cleveland, Joe Calabrese, the transit GM, is often the one who's against rail expansion which is bizarre.

I liked the proposed transport center project as the plans came together, but also can't pretend it offered a whole lot of new transportation benefits. If we're only talking about state and local dollars now, it sinks pretty low on the priority list for me.

I

This is very disappointing. So Cleveland wins a TIGER grant for a bunch of hiking trails especially one next to our financially struggling Red Line but fails to win money for a REAL transportation project like NCTC.

 

I'm not an expert in the TIGER application and awards process, but I will bet much of it comes down to local enthusiasm. And in Cleveland, if we go by the np columns (by Steve Litt, esp) and public official pronouncements advocating the Red Line Greenway as opposed to NCTC, where there has been litle but confusion, apathy and even opposition, (save All Aboard Ohio which continues to be the Voice in the wilderness on pro-transit issues), I'm not surprised why projects like the Greenway and the Opportunity Corridor (not a TIGER program but similar as a big local transportation project) move forward while pro-rail projects go nowhere.

 

...and now we can't even get people like Litt or any local pol to speak up to support funding to even save public transit. The message is: Cleveland hates mass transit and loves just about any other transportation that doesn't involve transit...amazing; sad ... and foolish.

 

No, it comes down to the application and local support. It isn't just a "hiking trail" - which isn't even a truthful term, but the northernmost segment of the Ohio to Erie Trail. There are years of engineering that has gone into the implementation and planning of the bike/pedestrian corridor, which includes a new linear park, rehabilitation of existing deteriorated parks, and connectivity to other bicycle facilities.

 

Just because your pet project didn't make the TIGER grant doesn't mean that it will never happen. After all, look how long it took for the Cincinnati Streetcar to get off of the ground with a combination of funding sources - including TIGER. It's competitive.

 

The Ohio to Erie trail is fine in my book.  The Red Line Greenway is weird to me (running a hiking trail next to a live rapid rail line that is mainly in an open cut ditch) and it wasn't that many years in the making; there was even some talk at one time of eliminating some of the tracks on the Red Line's viaduct to make it easier for hikers to walk into Tower City or whatever.  It's salt in the wound that, while this "Greenway" is being funding, nobody seems to be able to find funding for the transit system running the Red Line itself and the level of interest in finding such funding seems very low.

 

The NCTC isn't my "pet project," but it is an important project toward advancing rail.  We haven't been able to get any positive rail project done in recent years, save the relocation of the E. 120 Red Line Stop to Little Italy -- I don't count the station rebuilds on their existing site (University-Cedar, Woodhill, Brookpark, etc) as advancing or expanding rail.  You can't deny there always seems to be a groundswell of support and consensus for road or hiking trail but none for rail.  The confusion about NCTC (should it be East or West of E. 9th street? Is there interest only because a private developer wants Greyhound's current property? etc) certainly had some influence on the TIGER grantors.

 

The Cincinnati Streetcar is a bad example.  There had been local political fighting over whether to move forward with it at all including, IIRC, opposition from Cincy's current mayor.  It's almost a miracle that the line is even being built.  Here again, though, the Cincinnati's "controversy" regarding the streetcar is not unlike the opposition and strife regarding rail projects in Cleveland -- the only difference is that in Cleveland, Joe Calabrese, the transit GM, is often the one who's against rail expansion which is bizarre.

 

I like the Greenway project, but your point is well taken.  Urban hiking trails can't possibly have the impact that a similar-scale investment in transit would.  At a time when transit is struggling to hold on, as are a lot of the people it serves, public investment in hiking trails seems rather foolish.

I like the Greenway project, but your point is well taken.  Urban hiking trails can't possibly have the impact that a similar-scale investment in transit would.  At a time when transit is struggling to hold on, as are a lot of the people it serves, public investment in hiking trails seems rather foolish.

 

My guess is a small part of this is the movement of millenials and empty-nesters from the burbs back into cities.  They want these same amenities that they had out yonder.    We just need more of them because they too will be interested in transit once we reach a tipping point in cities.   

Anyone know if the Mall to Science-Center pedestrian bridge is still a go? If its still under-review, then I have a more modest (in terms of flair) proposal. Build a wide bridge covered in grass from the Mall, Cleveland City Hall, Willard Park over top of Amtrak and the shoreway, and connect it to Browns, Science Center, Rock Hall. Have the bridge be covered in greenery, grass, plants, walkways, sculptures, maybe a cafe or two. Also, tie it into the convention center tunnels, and build a connector (elevator/escalator) to Amtrak/Greyhound.

 

(sorry if I or others have proposed such a thing, and its get down-voted, but I figure with the Amtrak tiger fund getting cancelled, then project can be rethought).

 

I'd support this over the proposed bridge. The concept was originally part of the mall proposal for the convention center, and the renderings looked amazing.

 

This thread is another example of the failure of the Lakefront Plan; it really did nothing to bring together major stakeholders. Without that it's nearly impossible to get traction in any cohesive, meaningful way.

 

The NCTC should have been built by now.

I like the Greenway project, but your point is well taken.  Urban hiking trails can't possibly have the impact that a similar-scale investment in transit would.  At a time when transit is struggling to hold on, as are a lot of the people it serves, public investment in hiking trails seems rather foolish.

 

I disagree, Redline Greenway is $16 million total.  A similar investment in transit would be one train station.  Also, this will provide a nice bike trail connecting the outer, still frayed edges of several of our most up and coming neighborhoods to Downtown.  I expect this to be extremely popular, and to create a lot of spin-off development along it's entire route.

Cool project, no doubt, it's just that the adjacent rail line often travels at less than bicycle speed.  And RTA is roughly $18 million in the hole, so if there's $16 million available...

Anyone know if the Mall to Science-Center pedestrian bridge is still a go? If its still under-review, then I have a more modest (in terms of flair) proposal. Build a wide bridge covered in grass from the Mall, Cleveland City Hall, Willard Park over top of Amtrak and the shoreway, and connect it to Browns, Science Center, Rock Hall. Have the bridge be covered in greenery, grass, plants, walkways, sculptures, maybe a cafe or two. Also, tie it into the convention center tunnels, and build a connector (elevator/escalator) to Amtrak/Greyhound.

 

(sorry if I or others have proposed such a thing, and its get down-voted, but I figure with the Amtrak tiger fund getting cancelled, then project can be rethought).

 

I'd support this over the proposed bridge. The concept was originally part of the mall proposal for the convention center, and the renderings looked amazing.

 

This thread is another example of the failure of the Lakefront Plan; it really did nothing to bring together major stakeholders. Without that it's nearly impossible to get traction in any cohesive, meaningful way.

 

The NCTC should have been built by now.

 

Its really insane to consider anything but the land connection previously proposed and championed by many of us.  Many other cities were able to fund similar projects (and get most of it paid for by the Feds.)...   

^I don't really consider highway caps to be similar, given the enormous span required to bridge the railroads and shoreway, and the grade change form the malls to the lakefront. I could wrong, but I suspect the straightforward extension of the malls north is far more expensive and complex than people make it out to be.

 

I like the Greenway project, but your point is well taken.  Urban hiking trails can't possibly have the impact that a similar-scale investment in transit would.  At a time when transit is struggling to hold on, as are a lot of the people it serves, public investment in hiking trails seems rather foolish.

 

I don't really understand why these projects are being pitted against each other. We already spend vastly more in tax dollars on transit in Cuyahoga County every year than we do on bike and "urban hiking trails." Why are these trails less worthy for spending than libraries, parks, or the myriad other things we spend money on?

^Agreed. There is no need to pit one against another. If a particular project didn't receive TIGER funding, it's either because the proposal was not feasible, did not have political support, or simply did not get submitted properly/in-time/at all.

^Or, given the intense competition for the $, the proposal scored poorly in terms of transport/quality of life benefit per cost.

I don't really understand why these projects are being pitted against each other. We already spend vastly more in tax dollars on transit in Cuyahoga County every year than we do on bike and "urban hiking trails." Why are these trails less worthy for spending than libraries, parks, or the myriad other things we spend money on?

 

I'm not comparing to those things, I'm comparing to public transit which I consider to be a much higher priority.  It helps people pay rent and feed kids to a greater extent than libraries or parks (especially) ever will.  I realize we spend a lot on RTA, but not nearly enough, as the severity of its current funding crisis is well known.  This community simply does not face a crisis-level lack of parks, or even a mild lack of parks, and yet their position as Plan A seems unassailable.   

^The point you agreed with directly compared those things. It's a silly comparison, IMHO, and maybe you agree. We need more transit funding. Funding for the greenway has pretty much nothing to do with that.

 

EDIT: I think we're on the same page. I'm just not a fan how it was initially framed.

 

EDIT2: Bringing us back to the main topic, the North Coast transportation center doesn't have much to do with RTA needing more money either.

^The point you agreed with directly compared those things. It's a silly comparison, IMHO, and maybe you agree. We need more transit funding. Funding for the greenway has pretty much nothing to do with that.

 

EDIT: I think we're on the same page. I'm just not a fan how it was initially framed.

 

EDIT2: Bringing us back to the main topic, the North Coast transportation center doesn't have much to do with RTA needing more money either.

 

I'm going out of my way not to malign the greenway project because I do like it, within the context of what it is, all things being equal, etc. 

 

And I fail to see much separation between RTA and NCTC, if for no other reason than the "T" they share.  Consider how NCTC would retroactively make the WFL a better investment by tying the Rapids directly to interstate bus and rail services.  When random locals are asked about rail funding, they still bring up the WFL's low utilization as an example of waste and a reason not to support the system.  The Public Square renovation got a lot of people to come give it another try, and I believe NCTC could have a similar effect for RTA.

 

I don't really understand why these projects are being pitted against each other.

 

There's a natural comparison because both were projects where TIGER was sought where one, the Greenway, has been a media/local pol darling and the other barely discussed and/or the subject of controversy as all rail transit projects seem to be.  And it was not surprising given this (to me at least) that the Greenway won the TIGER but NCTC lost it.  The Opportunity Corridor was not a TIGER project, but is a major non-transit transportation project that received huge positive press and near-lockstep support from local officials... including the RTA chief.

 

My only question is: why is this?

Has the North Coast Transportation Center been politically viable? Was a TIGER grant even submitted? If it doesn't have traction or a dedicated group pushing it, it's going to be forgotten.

I think the NCTC vs Red Line Greenway discussion should be tabled, go meet up for drinks to hash it out. (My two cents).

 

I think that NCTC would move to the fore-front of our thoughts if something like the Midwest HSR was an option.

http://www.midwesthsr.org/cleveland

 

If Chicago is 2:15 away, Detroit is 1:20 away, New York City 4:00, Columbus 1:00, Cincinnati 2:00, as a result of a High Speed Rail network connecting the Midwest and the East Coast, you will have an improved NCTC on the forefront of Cleveland and TIGER's radar. With the above listed speeds you have daylight service, you have multiple round trips a day. This beats the pants off of driving, and is likely origin-to-destination faster than flying as airports are outside of the city core.

 

So, you could either approach this using incremental improvement (Ohio to follow MDOT's approach of 110'ing Detroit to Chicago), and then you have two round-trips a day, and shaving a few hours off of routes. Or, champion the political will, and find a financing strategy. I think the "if you build it they will come" means that if you build great rail transport, then a good Cleveland station will be built, and not really vice-versa. For the time being, can probably just some new siding on Cleveland Amtrak station to make it more appealing...

 

Is there a kickstarter to fund Midwest HSR?

Has the North Coast Transportation Center been politically viable? Was a TIGER grant even submitted? If it doesn't have traction or a dedicated group pushing it, it's going to be forgotten.

 

To answer your 2nd Q:

 

Cleveland's $37 million TIGER grant application for the Lakefront Multimodal Transportation Center was not approved. Not even a portion of it was funded. I hope the city will reapply. But more so, I hope the city will actually put some real money into its local match. Using city property as the local match apparently wasn't enough....

 

 

 

 

Thanks, that's a good rationale, too.

I think the NCTC vs Red Line Greenway discussion should be tabled, go meet up for drinks to hash it out. (My two cents).

 

This kind of comment... look, I don't generally talk about NCTC at the bar.  Who does?  We're on a forum called Urban Ohio in a thread called NCTC.  In light of NCTC not getting a TIGER grant, is there a more appropriate thread for comparing it with projects that did?  Open to suggestions, other than "screw that because I want to make a different point."  Go ahead, make your point.  You don't need to shut down other people to do it.

 

EDIT: I think we're on the same page. I'm just not a fan how it was initially framed.

 

Glad you approve now.  Thanks for derailing another discussion by jumping in and saying it's off-topic.  Oops, sorry, never mind.  Recently someone asked about the shoreway conversion, I wasn't involved, but you called me out by name because you didn't like an opinion I expressed about it several years ago.

I wonder if there's a plan B, like a really pared down bus shack on some other city-owned lot.

Anyone know if the Mall to Science-Center pedestrian bridge is still a go? If its still under-review, then I have a more modest (in terms of flair) proposal. Build a wide bridge covered in grass from the Mall, Cleveland City Hall, Willard Park over top of Amtrak and the shoreway, and connect it to Browns, Science Center, Rock Hall. Have the bridge be covered in greenery, grass, plants, walkways, sculptures, maybe a cafe or two. Also, tie it into the convention center tunnels, and build a connector (elevator/escalator) to Amtrak/Greyhound.

 

(sorry if I or others have proposed such a thing, and its get down-voted, but I figure with the Amtrak tiger fund getting cancelled, then project can be rethought).

 

The Mall-to-Harbor pedestrian bridge is still a go.

 

And the Amtrak station improvements are still a go. Amtrak was planning to fund the $4 million +/- station improvements themselves (building modernization, ADA compliance, platform resurfacing and widening, parking lot and walkway improvements). The $37.4 TIGER grant was to pay 80 percent of the cost of just about everything east of the Amtrak station to East 9th (expandable Greyhound station, Waterfront Line station linkage to Greyhound, covered pedestrian walkways, etc).