Malls, specifically outdoor malls like the one that is going to be built up in West Chester, are actually doing surprisingly well all over the place.  Suburban retail has come out of the recession with a vengeance.

 

Not that I don't believe you, but do you have any support for this?  Most stories I've seen indicate that mall vacancies are still very high and rents are at levels below the pre-Recession days. 

 

The successful suburban malls have run ahead (Kenwood is the obvious example in Cincy, but also Polaris and Easton in Cbus), but the ones that were creaking along have not recovered.

 

This is sort of what I was getting at.  Malls that were already failing continued to do so, but at the same time we're seeing the rise of regional powerhouse malls and new outdoor malls/lifestyle centers to replace the malls that have failed.  Cincinnati is getting two of what I'd call outdoor malls - one in West Chester and the other in Oakley. The fact that Kenwood is seeing this new construction on the premises but not actually "in" the mall is indicative of the move to outdoor malls as the preferred development strategy. The term outdoor mall gets a bit vague, though, as there is plenty of retail construction in places like Fields Ertel but they are more of a strip mall.

I think they would have been better off getting the Kroger back in there. I say  that because there is no grocery store in Sycamore Twp(Unless you call Fresh market one).  There is plenty of retail.  Is the upper levels still offices or residential?

My take on this:

 

CINCINNATI METRO

 

Defunct

Beechwood Mall

Jordan Crossing / Silverton Commons - Thanks John

 

Failing

Forest Fair Mall/Cincinnati Mills/Cincinnati Mall - For sale

Towne Mall in Middletown

Tri-County Mall - Just sold

 

Okay

Northgate Mall - Below average rates per SF, redevelopment/additions planned

Sycamore Plaza - Numerous vacancies, below average rates per SF

 

Performing Well

Crestview Hills - Mostly demolished and redeveloped into an open-air center

Eastgate

Florence Mall

Kenwood Town Center

 

Proposed

Kenwood Collection

Liberty Town Center

 

--

 

DAYTON METRO

 

Defunct

Salem Mall

 

Okay

Upper Valley Mall - Springfield

 

Performing Well

Dayton Mall

The Greene - Lifestyle center with residential, retail and offices in Beavercreek

The Mall at Fairfield Commons

 

--

 

COLUMBUS

 

Defunct

City Center

Consumer Square - Was this a mall or just big box haven?

Northland

 

Failing

Westland

 

Okay

Eastland Mall

 

Performing Well

Easton Town Center - Lifestyle center with retail and offices

The Mall at Tuttle Creek

Polaris Fashion Place

 

--

 

LEXINGTON KY

 

Defunct

Lexington Mall

Turfland Mall

 

Okay

Eastland Mall - City's first but more of a strip mall

 

Performing Well

Fayette Mall

Hamburg Pavilion

 

Proposed

The Summit - A lifestyle, open-air center with a rumored Saks Fifth Avenue coming in

 

For Dayton, you forgot Miami Valley Mall and Town & Country which both would be under the "Okay" category.

 

For Columbus, you forgot Brice Mall and New Market Mall (both are failing) and Shops at Worthington Place which would be "Okay."

Actually in the real estate development industry the buzz and glamour for lifestyle centers is waning. Sure you still see them built, but look at Polaris in Columbus. Built in 2001, well after the enclosed shopping mall boom.

 

The poster up thread that mentioned Saks as a bad traffic driver is right. I bet if you had the right population in downtown a target would do well there. They serve all demographics not just the wealthy.

 

For Dayton, you forgot Miami Valley Mall and Town & Country which both would be under the "Okay" category.

 

For Columbus, you forgot Brice Mall and New Market Mall (both are failing) and Shops at Worthington Place which would be "Okay."

 

Agreed about Miami Valley Mall in Piqua for the Dayton area. But I will have to respectfully disagree about Town and Country. It's pretty vibrant right now. Here's a link to their directory:

 

http://www.daytontownandcountry.com/?url=directory/

 

 

They have the region's only Trader Joe's, and a lot of the prime chain restaurants (like First Watch, Panera, etc.) are located in less prime space behind the center out of general visibility of major traffic.

 

 

 

Also, if we are really going specific about Dayton malls, Northtown, Westtown, Easttown, the now-defunct Forest Park Plaza, and Cross Pointe Center should all be thrown into the mix too. All were build with the intention of serving as an actual "mall" purpose in the area. The Dayton area is also a little weird because of Elder Beerman's and Rike's presence which caused a fair amount of 1960's era centers with 100,000+ department stores as anchors to be built throughout the area. But I assume the same might be true in other cities, as it is evident in Middletown with the original Target and Hill's locations, in Hamilton in certain centers along Rt. 4, etc.

I put "Okay" for Town & Country simply because I think it does well for a smaller center but it isn't a destination mall such as the Dayton Mall, Fairfield, or The Greene.

Actually in the real estate development industry the buzz and glamour for lifestyle centers is waning. Sure you still see them built, but look at Polaris in Columbus. Built in 2001, well after the enclosed shopping mall boom.

 

The poster up thread that mentioned Saks as a bad traffic driver is right. I bet if you had the right population in downtown a target would do well there. They serve all demographics not just the wealthy.

 

Actually, the lifestyle centers are now being build as hybrid indoor/outdoor malls.  Liberty Center in North Cincinnati is the perfect example.  It will be that hybrid.  The 200,000 sq. ft. Dillard's store will be attached the "The Foundry", which is two levels of indoor shopping. 

 

SAKS will be much better able to serve it's target market form Kenwood.  I also believe Tiffany's should follow them to The Kenwood Collection. 

A rendering of the inside of "The Foundry". ...

 

http://www.liberty-center.com/portals/0/galleries/home/130504_Liberty%20Center_View%2006.jpg

I think you missed Anderson Towne Center in Cincinnati (traditional mall converted to open-air about seven years ago).  I'd put it in the OK column.  I think it's fairly full but most of it isn't high-dollar stuff.  It's been awhile since I was in it, though.

^Also Rookwood and Deerfield. Not traditional malls with anchor department stores, but lots of traditional mall stores.

I think you missed Anderson Towne Center in Cincinnati (traditional mall converted to open-air about seven years ago).  I'd put it in the OK column.  I think it's fairly full but most of it isn't high-dollar stuff.  It's been awhile since I was in it, though.

 

I put that under Beechwood, which was mostly demolished sans the Macy's. I can't tell if its a lifestyle center or a strip mall.

^ Oh, you mean Beechmont.  Anderson Towne Center isn't defunct.  It's anchored by Macy's, Kmart, and a giant Kroger.  The rest of the stores are pretty lacking compared to other lifestyle centers, though.

 

http://www.atcstores.com/merchants.html

its been interesting to see northgate re-invent itself. as for Cincinnati mills I cant imagine that ever coming back.

Add Southland Mall in Columbus which is now just offices for Bob Evans and ECOT to failed malls. Everybody forgets this mall because it's in a part of town that people go to because they have to, not want to.

 

Consumer Square east never had any enclosed mallway. It had a Cub Foods (which turned into a Kroger) and a Burlington Coat Factory as big boxes with the rest being inline such as FuncoLand. There was also a movie theater structure that stood for maybe seven years. And it had a wholesale club in an outlot which still stands. I wonder if that McDonald's is still uber-early '90s inside.

We should probably spin this mall talk off into Ohio Malls News & Discussion or something.

 

Phillips Edison starts construction on Kenwood Collection: EXCLUSIVE

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Initial construction on the Kenwood Collection, the retail and office project that will transform the stalled Kenwood Towne Place development, has started.

 

The first phase of Phillips Edison & Co.’s project includes the completion and repair of site electrical work in the surface parking lot and the restoration of the unfinished detention pond and landscape along Galbraith Road.

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/09/26/phillips-edison-starts-construction-on.html

Is that ivy covering the parking garage?

Is that ivy covering the parking garage?

 

Yes, but even more hilarious is the 25 year old mature trees along the highway. 

Is that ivy covering the parking garage?

 

A few different companies make "green wall" type products that attach to concrete parking garages and have planting beds at each level and metal mesh vertical pieces that allow plant growth.  The new parking garage behind the Vernon Manor has a cheap, poorly implemented version of one. If done right ($$$) they look pretty nice, though, and you get the ivy look after a single growing season rather than 5-10 years.

SAKS would be a perfect fit for The Kenwood Collection.  And while there at it, they need to bring Tiffany's along.  They're out of place downtown. 

I think Tiffany's in many ways is perfectly located for its primary clientele.  (Hard to find a higher concentration of well-heeled males who need to buy some fancy jewelry than downtown.) 

SAKS will be much better able to serve it's target market form Kenwood.  I also believe Tiffany's should follow them to The Kenwood Collection. 

 

SAKS would be a perfect fit for The Kenwood Collection.  And while there at it, they need to bring Tiffany's along.  They're out of place downtown. 

 

By any chance do you want Saks and Tiffany's to move?

 

While I can see the advantages to the move, I think the urban residential renaissance is bound to lead to urban retail renaissance, and Saks gets incentives like all get out to stay downtown.  It is not a slam dunk case for them to leave.  Also, it would be a pretty big blow to have two prominent corners and such large tenants leave downtown for the burbs.

Also, it would be a pretty big blow to have two prominent corners and such large tenants leave downtown for the burbs.

 

This is what the troll is inferring he wants to see happen. Ignore it and it will go away.

^ correct. Do not respond to anything that account posts.  It's just trolling.

 

Glad to see this project moving forward.  I'd much rather have it in Hamilton County than in Deefrield Township. I do wish Kenwood Rd would be redone though- to give it a more urban blvd feel and less of the strip mall bonanza it currently is. 

 

I'd also love to see the numbers on the Metro * plus and how the ridership is at the kenwood stop.

^ correct. Do not respond to anything that account posts.  It's just trolling.

 

Glad to see this project moving forward.  I'd much rather have it in Hamilton County than in Deefrield Township. I do wish Kenwood Rd would be redone though- to give it a more urban blvd feel and less of the strip mall bonanza it currently is. 

 

I'd also love to see the numbers on the Metro * plus and how the ridership is at the kenwood stop.

 

Why pick on Kenwood Rd? Montgomery Rd itself has about as much of a strip mall feel as you could ever get. Kenwood has no property on which to construct a blvd feel, it is already too narrow. And trying to take property off adjacent frontages is not likely to fly. Concentrate on getting people in and out of that shopping center before they throw up their arms in frustration and just quit going. This Kenwood Connection is just adding to an already chronic condition. I likely will never see the light of day in its environs as it is so much more convenient to shop in Deerfield.

Um, SAF, do you really think that my fellow retailers and I don't see through what you're trying to do? It's not like we are sitting around hemming and hawing on whether to locate in your developments until we saw your posts.

 

"Ah, I was thinking of another property or even not expanding at all, but then this internet user, SAF, really made me want to sign a lease. A long lease. And what the heck, I'll even take on 10,000 more square feet than I was planning and not even bother negotiation on the lease rate. That user's informercial-like tone really sealed the deal"

 

You aren't selling Shamwows, OK? You need to act more professionally. There are plenty of other members of the development and real estate community that use this site daily who know better than to take on a Billy Mays persona.

^ correct. Do not respond to anything that account posts.  It's just trolling.

 

Glad to see this project moving forward.  I'd much rather have it in Hamilton County than in Deefrield Township. I do wish Kenwood Rd would be redone though- to give it a more urban blvd feel and less of the strip mall bonanza it currently is. 

 

I'd also love to see the numbers on the Metro * plus and how the ridership is at the kenwood stop.

 

Concentrate on getting people in and out of that shopping center before they throw up their arms in frustration and just quit going. This Kenwood Connection is just adding to an already chronic condition. I likely will never see the light of day in its environs as it is so much more convenient to shop in Deerfield.

 

More traffic flow trolling. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Give it up.

Given SAF's intimate knowledge of the Liberty Town Center (or whatever it's called), I'm tempted to believe he works for Steiner. 

Let me see if I have this right.  I am on a blog page that is for The Kenwood Collection.  I have read the recent reports that SAKS is in negotiations to move to Kenwood. I like what Phillips Edison plans to do at the Kenwood Collection.  SAKS has been closing a lot of stores lately.  I have NO DOUBT DT Cincinnati loses money.  YES, I support the move to Kenwood.  Including Tiffany's.  And I am being called a troll because of that???  Aren't the people who DON"T support what could  be happening as far as anchors are concerned the actual trolls.  Positive comments about The Kenwood Collection on The Kenwood Collection page isn't allowed???  Get real!  This ISN'T a Downtown Cincinnati page.  You are the one's trolling!  FYI  I have been following the Liberty Center project for years.  I love it!  It'll be a project to be proud of.  But I don't work for Steiner, or in real estate, not that it's anyone's business. I am just an aficionado of retail.     

SAF, I agree that more economic development in the area would be good. The issue lies with the cost.

 

Is it really worth it for the Kenwood area to poach Saks from downtown?

 

NO if Saks is making a profit downtown and currently has a plan to stay there for years to come.

YES if Saks is unprofitable downtown and is planning to leave once their lease is up.

 

 

I can see both sides of it. And aside from renovating Sycamore Plaza across the street into a more upscale destination, the Kenwood Collection is likely the only way Saks or another luxury retailer will be able to break into Kenwood easily. I'm still hoping for the retailer to be Neiman Marcus, but we will see what happens.

Not a good week for the city of Cincinnati.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/money/local-business-news/saks-fifth-avenue-agrees-to-open-new-store-in-kenwood-in-2016

And the decline begins.  Thanks, Cranley.  ;)

And the decline begins.  Thanks, Cranley.  ;)

 

I don't think we can blame this one on Cranley.

From a purely business sense, it would be hard to argue that Saks isn't going to make more money at Kenwood Collection than downtown.  And the incentives that the city would have to pony up to keep saks would have to be a considerable amount of money, at what point does that scale tip where its not worth offering that much money for a store? 

 

And while having Saks downtown certainly is ideal for the City, there are a lot of positives right now to look forward to in the CBD.  The writing on the wall for this to happen has been there and likely would have happened no matter what.

And the decline begins.  Thanks, Cranley.  ;)

 

I don't think we can blame this one on Cranley.

 

Maybe , but the shenanigans in the city the past week didn't help.

And the decline begins.  Thanks, Cranley.  ;)

 

I don't think we can blame this one on Cranley.

 

Hence the winky face.  They'll do better there, I imagine.

 

The new environment that becomes evident with every new belligerent proclamation would give some pause.

I'd say this is really bad news for the new development in Liberty.  What high-end department stores can they reasonably expect out there? 

I'd say this is really bad news for the new development in Liberty.  What high-end department stores can they reasonably expect out there? 

 

Maybe Von Maur?

I guess, though I think Von Maur is much more in line with Macy's/Dillard's than with Nordstrom/Saks.  They've touted that project as premier and high end, but if they only end up with Von Maur and Dillard's, I don't think that qualifies. 

I don't think you all understand Liberty Center.  First, it's upscale.....not luxury, like The Kenwood Collection will be.  Secondly, "the place" is anchor.    See copy of article by Mr. Steiner himself, the developer of Liberty Center. It's the blueprint to what LC will be!    Besides, Cincinnati is a large enough market to support more than one upscale retail destination!

 

Please read the below.  Pretty informative.

 

BTW - Ecstatic about the SAKS move to Kenwood.  It will be wildly successful. 

 

 

 

Anchors: A Way

 

Created by Yaromir Steiner, Founder / CEO on July 25, 2013

 

The emergence of the place as the anchor

 

There is a seismic shift taking place in the bedrock of retail real estate development. Like the tectonic forces that move continents, the shift is gradual, but it is also profound: the definition of what constitutes an anchor in a retail or mixed-use development is changing once again. Traditional department store anchors have long since ceded much of their space to a new generation of anchor concepts that includes entertainment anchors like multiplex theaters and large scale destination stores that can generate interest and drive regional traffic. But there is a relatively new and emerging anchor concept on the retail real estate landscape and it has important implications for how we design, develop and experience the commercial developments of tomorrow: the place is the anchor.

 

What does that mean?

 

The place as the anchor is a shorter way of saying that the collective commercial, entertainment and experiential power of the space—which includes not only the retail energy, but also the aesthetic appeal, the authenticity and usability of the built environment, and the social potential—takes on a life of its own and becomes a brand unto itself. To use a baseball analogy, it’s the equivalent of a team that, instead of relying on one or two overhyped stars, assembles all the pieces of a winning team in all facets of the game—offense, defense and pitching—and injects new life and energy into the ballpark with more comfortable seats, tastier food items and engaging programming to entertain the fans. When done well, the result is a better fan experience, higher attendance, a favorable bottom line for ownership, and a team that wins a lot of ballgames.   

 

When we talk about place-making in the industry, this is the end game. Visitors, residents, and guests are not attracted to these retail and mixed-use environments in search of one particular retail brand, they come because they enjoy everything about the project. It’s not about a logo, it’s about an experience.

 

This is not necessarily a revolutionary concept. Projects like Crocker Park in Cleveland, Ohio; Easton Town Center in Columbus, Ohio; The Grove in Los Angeles, California; Zona Rosa in Kansas City, Missouri; and City Place in Palm Beach, Florida have all leveraged their experiential power and memorable place-making potential to go beyond the traditional anchor concept and establish the place itself as the anchor. And these pioneers will not be on their own for long: innovative new developments are already coming online (with more in the development pipeline) representing a new generation of projects that have paid less attention to inking one or two premier anchor tenants and more attention to establishing a vibrant tenant mix, and to creating great spaces, places and experiences.

 

This trend is being driven by two primary factors: the emergence of strong retail brands and the reintroduction of leisure-time uses into the retail mix. The former, which is both a contributing factor to and a direct result of the diminishing role of department store anchors in design decisions, is also spurred along by the growing consumer preference for “direct access” to brands. The latter has helped to re-establish the social role of the marketplace, reinforce the importance of open-air environments, and remind architects and developers alike of the need for authenticity in the built environment.

 

How does the place become the anchor? This is not something that is easy to do, and it rarely—if ever—happens by accident. There are certain key characteristics that all great place anchors share: compelling public spaces, a mix of uses, open-air environments, the utilization of traditional urban design principles, the integration of leisure time uses, and the creation of not just commercial, but civic and social hubs. The best part is that these concepts are not only already out there, they are performing well.  They are creating an experiential loop where visitors stay longer and spend more, while they themselves contribute to the all-important human energy that makes the best public spaces so dynamic and engaging. 

 

So where does this leave retail real estate development? What is the impact on this trend on the future? Over the next 25 years, I suspect that this gradual change will continue to move forward, slowly replacing the traditional mall model with the next generation of New Town Centers. These New Town Centers will have the critical mass to become self-sustaining regional destinations (a minimum 500,000 square feet of retail space), with office, residential, services and hospitality components integrated vertically or immediately adjacent to retail uses. Buildings and streets in the New Town Centers will be constructed at the human scale—designed for people, but able to easily accommodate vehicles—and authentic public spaces and natural gathering spaces will serve as social “anchors” within the project. Unburdened by the ponderous weight of traditional anchor restrictions and the stale development formulas of the past, the New Town Centers of the future will be their own anchors, free to explore new ideas and fulfill their commercial and experiential potential.

 

I'd say this is really bad news for the new development in Liberty.  What high-end department stores can they reasonably expect out there? 

 

Maybe Von Maur?

 

Agreed it is bad news for the Liberty Center. I'm betting they will poach Macy's from Tri-County as the second anchor, because Von Maur already has a store at the Greene.

 

It's still likely Von Maur will try to get into the Cincy market somehow, but somewhere else in the metro would make more sense.

I'd say this is really bad news for the new development in Liberty.  What high-end department stores can they reasonably expect out there? 

  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I am surprised that Macy's didn't sign on though, if only to replace the aging Tri-County mall store, which has become ghetto.  Dillard's will be in phase 1.  I believe Macy's or Von Maur will be in phase two.  Von Maur is much more upscale than Macy's/Dillard's. if not as upscale as SAKS. 

Also, back on topic, an interesting read about outside interest in the site from the Cincy Biz Courier:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/11/13/cincinnati-retail-consultant-others.html

Yeah, odds are this is actually a good thing.  Saks will have a new bigger store which will serve as the anchor for the collection, making the likelihood of that filling up quickly more possible.  Then the space will be left for other stores to come in and use.  I don't know much of the way the Saks building is, having never been in it, but why not find another big retailer for it, or remake it into several smaller stores or whatnot?  Or it could be the opportunity to knock that building down and densify further, or add a tower on top.  I don't know all of the details of that building, but why not?

I live in Kennedy Heights and my fiance works in Kenwood Mall.  Driving around the area often, I have been noticing how things here are getting bigger and taller, more dense.  I don't know if people notice it, but I think it could easily become or is becoming another major node of business and retail activity.  I don't think there is anything wrong with this and I think that having nodes of dense housing, business and retail further the cause of transit.  This would also help explain why the first metro plus route goes there.  I especially hope that transit helps the area a lot, because as it gets more dense and the collection comes online traffic is gonna be off the hook and people who might not usually consider transit might start seeing why it could be a good idea. :)

^what you said is pretty much all true.

 

Plus, I'd rather have our regions most prestigious, largest shopping center 15-20 minutes from downtown in Kenwood than in Mason or some other far off destination.

 

The City owns the building that Saks is in.  I hope they tear it down and replace it with a tower with first floor retail.

Von Maur is much more upscale than Macy's/Dillard's. if not as upscale as SAKS.

 

:drunk: 

 

Saks ------> TJ Maxx revival?

Von Maur is much more upscale than Macy's/Dillard's. if not as upscale as SAKS.

 

:drunk: 

 

 

You beat me to it.  Almost fell out of my chair with that one.

I'd say this is really bad news for the new development in Liberty.  What high-end department stores can they reasonably expect out there? 

  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I am surprised that Macy's didn't sign on though, if only to replace the aging Tri-County mall store, which has become ghetto.  Dillard's will be in phase 1.  I believe Macy's or Von Maur will be in phase two.  Von Maur is much more upscale than Macy's/Dillard's. if not as upscale as SAKS. 

 

I don't have the time to go back through the thread--and it may well have been lost in the crash--but weren't you the one who was beating the drum that Liberty Towne Center was going to be the premier upscale shopping destination in the entire region, and that the Cincinnati region had never seen anything like it? 

 

By the way, the idea that Von Maur is as upscale as Saks.....really?????