^i'm almost, sort of, agreeing with C-Dawg & Hts! You'd be surprised how many people in NYC who easily make large six-figure incomes and are worth at least a couple of million $$ consider themselves part of the beleaguered middle class. It's absolutely preposterous.

Well, that's where we disagree.  That is not rich in this day and age.

 

Agreed

 

In NYC, given the cost of living, it may not be.  In Ohio, you are doing very well for yourself if you are pulling in $250000/yr.  Several top doctors and lawyers are in that range.  I think you two are confusing rich with filthy rich. 

 

I would agree.  Rich has to be defined as relative to the rest of society.  I you make more than 95% of others, I think that qualifies (and that's less than $250k).

Nice to see MTS and DanB on the same page.  I can hear the champaign glasses clinking as they toat each other.

 

Maybe we should rename this board SmugOhio instead of UrbanOhio.

 

 

 

champaign?  What is that?  Some tacky glass from Illinois?

 

Well, that's where we disagree.  That is not rich in this day and age.

 

Agreed

 

In NYC, given the cost of living, it may not be.  In Ohio, you are doing very well for yourself if you are pulling in $250000/yr.  Several top doctors and lawyers are in that range.  I think you two are confusing rich with filthy rich. 

I don't base my answers here on NYC.  Honestly, those making 750k or more yearly are in what I consider filthy rich.

This emphasis on salaries doesn't get to the real point. You need to be making serious money and be out of debt before you can get aggressive with investing.  But even then you can't make the really huge money without being tipped off.  The Tea Partiers have been duped into thinking that doesn't happen by the very men who do it. 

 

Not naming any names here, but someone I know made huge money off the Enron collapse.  Specifically, he bought the collapsed stock of an Enron vendor for $4 and sold it for $54.  How did he know to buy that stock?  He goes on yachting with executives from energy companies.   

Opinion piece from the WaPo on a CBO study on income equality.  Ignore the misleading headine (this is not an OWS story)

 

The study that shows why Occupy Wall Street struck a nerve

 

Overall, in inflation-adjusted dollars, average after-tax household income grew by 62 percent during the period under study, according to the CBO. This sounds great — but only until you look a little closer.

 

For those at the bottom — the one-fifth of households with the lowest incomes — the increase was just 18 percent. For the middle three-fifths, the average increase was 40 percent. Spread over nearly 30 years, these gains are modest, not meteoric.

 

By contrast, look at the top 1 percent of earners. Their after-tax household income increased by an astonishing 275 percent. For those keeping track, this means it nearly quadrupled. Nice work, if you can get it.

 

  >snip<

 

... the real issue is what kind of nation we want to be. Thomas Jefferson’s “All men are created equal” is properly understood as calling for equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. But the more we become a nation of rich and poor, the less we can pretend to be offering the same opportunities to every American. As polarization increases, mobility declines. The whole point of the American Dream is that it is available to everyone...

 

 

Piggybacking on the CBO report...

 

the German Bertelsmann Foundation did a study of Social Justice (or "Fairness") in the OECD countries (more to measure Germanys standing in this league table) and the US performs poorly. 

 

New Social Justice Index Places U.S. Near Bottom

 

The social justice index measured six indicators of "socially responsible" capitalism. In all of them, the U.S. was ranked in the lower half of the countries examined. It fared particularly poorly in four.

 

The U.S. was third to last in poverty prevention, trailed only by Chile and Mexico, due to its "alarming" poverty levels. Whereas in Denmark, only 1 in 27 children lives in poverty, for instance, in the United States that rate is above 1 in 5. And as the report puts it: "Under conditions of poverty, social participation and a self-determined life are possible only with great difficulty."

 

On the health index, the U.S. was ranked 23 out of 31 countries -- other countries did much better when it came to providing access to quality health care not simply based on socioeconomic status. And the U.S. infant mortality rate is unusually high, the report found.

 

When it comes to "intergenerational justice" -- a measure of how well or poorly the current generation is doing at passing along problems to the next generation -- the U.S. ranked 20 out of 31.

 

.....there is also an OECD study from 2010 that looks at social mobility:

 

The new survey on the developed countries also echoes the findings of OECD's own 2010 report on social mobility, which found that, contrary to America's reputation as the "land of opportunity," it is now much harder to climb the socioeconomic ladder between generations in the U.S. than in many other developed countries.

 

...which is interesting since this country is such a popular immigration destination. 

$250K is rich. If you don't think it is, maybe you live in Monte Carlo or something.

 

The ranch/tract houses in the burbs are still selling like hotcakes. I've looked at literally over 100 of these type of homes over the past 1.5 years and often when we found one we liked and asked to go back for a 2nd look, it had sold. Just that quick.

$250,000 is not rich.

 

Webster's defines rich as:

 

new-rich (noun)

new-rich (adjective)

strike (verb)

rich adj \ˈrich\

 

Definition of RICH

1: having abundant possessions and especially material wealth

2a : having high value or quality

 

Families making $250K are not out buying yachts, or jetting off to Monte Carlo.  Certainly, where you live, expenses you have, cost of living etc play a large part in how much of that income is disposable.  Plus, we are discussing many different things, salary vs income?  Very different.

 

A family making $250K and putting 4 kids through college may seem rich to some of you, to others it may be well off.  Do you want to punish people for working hard? Sounds like it.

 

Starting salaries for engineers range in the $60-80K.  Starting salaries for pharmacists range in the $80-$100K range.  A two income family with 10-15 years experience in these fields will easily make $250K or more.  Are they rich?  Probably not.  They are living normal lifestyles.  Do you want to punish them for working hard?  Do you want to punish them for getting degrees in marketable fields?  Maybe they should have gotten degrees in English, Psychology, Music Appreciation, or Broadcasting?

 

Top doctors only making $250K? They would be in trouble with the cost of malpractice insurances, and student loans.

 

One also doesn't need insider trading to be successful.  They just need to work hard and quit complaining about what others have.

If you can afford to send 4 kids through college without loans, you are rich in my book.  Anyways, like I said last page, there is a difference between rich and filthy rich.  The filthy rich have more money than they know what to do with, so they spend it on yachts and wine cellar stocks that cost more than most people's homes.  The rich may not have all the luxuries of Warren Buffet, but they live more comfortably than 95% of society.  Try going to your local factory and sell the point that $250000/yr is not rich.  I wouldn't recommend it.

 

And I don't want to punish these folks.  I just want to pluck their eye lashes out one by one and then steal their kids' christmas gifts after I run over their dog.

$250K is rich. If you don't think it is, maybe you live in Monte Carlo or something.

 

The ranch/tract houses in the burbs are still selling like hotcakes. I've looked at literally over 100 of these type of homes over the past 1.5 years and often when we found one we liked and asked to go back for a 2nd look, it had sold. Just that quick.

I dont think its rich.  IMHO, those tacky houses are cheap and that is why they sell.  Its a product that people can afford to buy and maintain without having much style or individuality.

If you can afford to send 4 kids through college without loans, you are rich in my book.  Anyways, like I said last page, there is a difference between rich and filthy rich.  The filthy rich have more money than they know what to do with, so they spend it on yachts and wine cellar stocks that cost more than most people's homes.  The rich may not have all the luxuries of Warren Buffet, but they live more comfortably than 95% of society.  Try going to your local factory and sell the point that $250000/yr is not rich.  I wouldn't recommend it.

 

And I don't want to punish these folks.  I just want to pluck their eye lashes out one by one and then steal their kids' christmas gifts after I run over their dog.

 

I dont think it's rich. I think it upper middle class to wealthy.  These folks are living comfortably.

 

That last part has me rolling.

^^Actually it depends when the tract housing was built...in my experience, even the small ranches and bungalows built just after the war and until the early 60's were solidly built and often hard great finishes for the prices (hard wood floors etc).  If well maintained over the years they could be a great value.

 

It is what builders started doing in the mid 60's and there on (tract housing wise) that is the crime.

Not quite as good as what the 'economist' had predicted, but better than the first 2 quarters. If this number holds and is not adjusted downward in the future (like so many others) than a technical recession may not be in the cards in the near future. The one thing the article leaves out is how inflation plays in these numbers. If I remember right inflation was runing about 2.3 or 2.4% during the same time period. So real growth minus inflation is not very good.

 

U.S. economy grows 2.5% in third quarter

 

"WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — U.S. growth accelerated in the third quarter as consumers and businesses ramped up spending, a report that shows the economy remained resilient in the face of strong headwinds.

 

Gross domestic product in the July-through-September period expanded at a 2.5% annual rate, the government said Thursday. That’s nearly double the 1.3% rate of growth in the second quarter and much faster than the first quarter’s tepid increase of 0.4%.

 

“There was strength across the board,” said Ellen Zentner, an economist at Nomura. “Now we have some momentum heading into the fourth quarter.”

 

Economists surveyed by MarketWatch had projected that growth would reach 2.8%."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-economy-grows-25-in-third-quarter-2011-10-27

$250,000 a year is it rich. No. Is it a very comfortable lifestyle, probably yes. Is it considerably more than what a majority of Americans live off of, yes.

 

I also think it has to do with how you live. If you live within your means than $250,000 can be a very comfortable and financially stress free lifestyle in most places in America. If you make $250,000 and try and live like you make a million, you may very well feel 'poor' and part of the 'middle class'.

Hts121, I like your comment about going to a factory and try telling those guys and gals that $250,000 a year is not rich.  Indeed  I would imagine that 50-60% of the population would feel rich if they were making $75,000.  I guess it is all what you are use to and what you can do without.  Most people do (without) and it will only get worse in the future.  Sorry to be such a downer....I am concerned for the kids coming up.

$250,000 a year is it rich. No. Is it a very comfortable lifestyle, probably yes. Is it considerably more than what a majority of Americans live off of, yes.

 

I also think it has to do with how you live. If you live within your means than $250,000 can be a very comfortable and financially stress free lifestyle in most places in America. If you make $250,000 and try and live like you make a million, you may very well feel 'poor' and part of the 'middle class'.

 

BINGO!

I'm going to start a poll about income as we have a good group of people here on UO that mirror the nation.

I guess it depends what factory you went to!  Union auto workers and steel workers did extremely well just up to a few years ago.  They were well into upper middle class for just working on a line.  many families made their money on these jobs 30-40 years ago.

 

I had an 80 customer Cleveland Press route back in the 60's in a fairly new tract development in North Royalton.  The people with money lived there.  I always thought they were well off, but not rich.  I do recall a large 4 bedroom home selling for ~$50,000 in the late 60's which was fairly expense then.  I have no idea what they go for now, I'm sure its a lot, but when I recently drove through the neighborhood I was thoroughly unimpressed and would not care to live there.

 

People with money don't send their kids to college without loans.  The student/parent loans are available to all and are fairly cheap.  They let their money work for them.  Is that one of the "perks" you want to take away from the upper middle class?

 

I don't care about the dog, she's getting old, and if there was Obamacare for her, the death panels would have her put to sleep!  But please, please leave the Christmas presents for the hired help alone!  Good help is so hard to find!  Who would open MTS's front door for him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I made $250K, I'd be filthy rich considering that I'm single, have a roommate, live in an inexpensive apartment, shop at the thrift store and drive old cars. I don't even like most new stuff -- it seems generic to me.

How is the Euro Zone 'fix' playing out so far?

 

Debt crisis: live

"Stock markets traded lower as Italy's government debt came close to unsustainably high levels, indicating investors don't believe the eurozone bail-out plan will protect the country."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8846201/Debt-crisis-live.html

 

Portugal and Spain continue their downward sprial as well.

 

Europe's rescue euphoria threatened as Portugal enters 'Grecian vortex'

 

"Monetary contraction in Portugal has intensified at an alarming pace and is mimicking the pattern seen in Greece before its economy spiralled out of control, raising concerns that the EU summit deal may soon washed over by fast-moving events.

 

Data released by the European Central Bank show that real M1 deposits in Portugal have fallen at an annualised rate of 21pc over the past six months, buckling violently in September.

 

"Portugal appears to have entered a Grecian vortex and monetary trends have deteriorated sharply in Spain, with a decline of 8.4pc," said Simon Ward, from Henderson Global Investors. Mr Ward said the ECB must cut interest rates "immediately" and launch a full-scale blitz of quantitative easing of up to 10pc of eurozone GDP."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8854267/Europes-rescue-euphoria-threatened-as-Portugal-enters-Grecian-vortex.html

 

 

 

$250K is rich. If you don't think it is, maybe you live in Monte Carlo or something.

 

The ranch/tract houses in the burbs are still selling like hotcakes. I've looked at literally over 100 of these type of homes over the past 1.5 years and often when we found one we liked and asked to go back for a 2nd look, it had sold. Just that quick.

I dont think its rich.  IMHO, those tacky houses are cheap and that is why they sell.  Its a product that people can afford to buy and maintain without having much style or individuality.

^^Actually it depends when the tract housing was built...in my experience, even the small ranches and bungalows built just after the war and until the early 60's were solidly built and often hard great finishes for the prices (hard wood floors etc).  If well maintained over the years they could be a great value.

 

It is what builders started doing in the mid 60's and there on (tract housing wise) that is the crime.

 

This is very true.  We have a early 60s ranch and while no where near as great as some of those older homes can be it is still damn solid.  Hardwood floors in half the house too, I think this was right before construction started getting terrible.  The biggest problem was the layout of the main bath and kitchen, but nothing a sledgehammer and a Home Depot card cant fix.  :wink:

After 1965, they could cover up the shoddy craftsmanship with wood paneling, shag carpet and loud wallpaper! These days they don't even care; just paint everything white, throw on a floating floor and leave the mistakes for the owner to take care of.

 

The one thing I have noticed with early drywall from the '50s and '60s is that people didn't know how to finish it all that well because it was a new material.

>If you can afford to send 4 kids through college without loans, you are rich in my book.

 

Basically nobody makes $250,000 before they are 40, and few before they are 50.  Obviously, if you are still paying off student loans until age 50, there is a problem.  You probably can't get any kind of loan to start a business, either. 

 

And to the peanut gallery that makes fun of people's majors, if everyone was a finance major, then what would employers judge graduates by?  Oh yeah, all those unpaid internships in NYC the rich kids get to do. Today, there are two types of college graduates: those with frivolous internships on their resumes enabled by wealthy parents, and people like me who worked in warehouses and chipping and painting boats.  You're not going any more for the piece of paper so much as the whole ensemble of resume padding that is only achievable by those with wealthy parents.

 

 

Just thought that the first time I really heard the word "intern" was the Monica Lewinsky scandal, which was in 1998.  I was a sophomore in college that year and didn't know anyone with an internship.  There was no bulletin board with internships posted on it, and there no websites with that info, because the internet barely existed (professor sure as hell didn't use email yet!).  Architecture and engineering programs had "co-ops", but for everyone else there were "summer jobs". 

Many professional paths have internships.  In many cases the student has to pay tuition to the university and gets college credit while working the internship. It had nothing to do with the parents wealth. We had them when I went to college in the 70's. In fact we were required to have an internship license.  Had you been on a professional path you would understand.  Just because you never heard of it doesn't make it so.

 

I was never making fun of anyone's degree.  Certainly getting a degree is something to be proud of. But each person is accountable to themselves to make sure that degree can lead to a job.  Getting a degree in something that doesn't pay the bills is irresponsible.

>If you can afford to send 4 kids through college without loans, you are rich in my book.

 

Basically nobody makes $250,000 before they are 40, and few before they are 50.  Obviously, if you are still paying off student loans until age 50, there is a problem.  You probably can't get any kind of loan to start a business, either. 

Personally speaking, not true.

 

>And to the peanut gallery that makes fun of people's majors, if everyone was a finance major, then what would employers judge graduates by?  Oh yeah, all those unpaid internships in NYC the rich kids get to do. Today, there are two types of college graduates: those with frivolous internships on their resumes enabled by wealthy parents, and people like me who worked in warehouses and chipping and painting boats.  You're not going any more for the piece of paper so much as the whole ensemble of resume padding that is only achievable by those with wealthy parents.

 

I'm not judging you, but this post come across as bitter and with some gross generalizations/assumptions.  Based on some posts on this forum, some folks here have a wealthy are the "haves" and everyone else is a "have not".  Not sure how old you are but internships have been around for quite a while. I had an internship when I was in college.  Three years at SOHIO and one at Sherwin Williams.  The SOHIO job introduced me to PR/Communications lead me to being hired. 

 

Frivolous internships? Personal, as a hiring manager, those types of "Nepotism" internship have gone out of favor.  in 09 my newphew went out and got an internship in an art design studio without my knowledge.  He was the only paid high school intern there.  This year he got a job at one of our company and I had nothing to do with it. 

>Getting a degree in something that doesn't pay the bills is irresponsible.

 

I basically wouldn't advise anyone in college now to pursue anything other than business, engineering, medical, etc.  The problem is that all of these degrees that once were perfectly fine for getting a professional job of some type don't get you there anymore.  Everyone knows that art, music, theater, and women's studies (actually anything that involved "studies") were bad news in the past.  But add to that english, political science, communications, history, etc., etc.

 

Bringing up stories of that one person you know who got a great job in this economy through unlikely circumstances is like telling about someone you know who gets to live for free in someone's spectacular condo for a year while the owner is biking around Australia for a year. 

 

 

 

Speaking as a recent (2009) grad with lots of friends/cousins/siblings that have graduated in the last three years I will just add my two cents. My friends with degrees in business, engineering, pharmacy and fashion including myself in the construction industry have had luck getting internships or Co-ops as well as full-time jobs even in this economy. With some of them finding jobs has been difficult, but have been able to eventually land a position. The ones with degrees in Art, or Psychology as well as some of the diciplines mentioned above have struggled.

There is a shortage of engineers because the "math wizards" have pursued graduate degrees in math and specialize in statistics for Wall Street.  At least that's what the founder of Adobe said in his speech to the Cleveland City Club.

There are two types of finance majors out there. The kind that went to schools that funnel kids straight to "Wall Street" (or into similar roles) and the ones that didn't. The mindset of each group is vastly different. Ones that attended the Wall Street schools (mostly on the East Coast, but also add in University of Chicago and some schools out West) don't ask questions about the legitimacy of the wacky derivatives and improper hedged instruments because they believe deep down that those instruments really do what they are supposed to do. When they fail it blows their minds. The schools they attend are staffed with professors that have spent a lot of time on Wall Street themselves, believe in the infallacy of those instruments as well and teach in that manner. Their connections get those kids jobs because they have been taught in the way that they want them to think.

 

On the other hand, finance majors from most other places (including here) wind up doing vastly different things. They take jobs at local banks, become investment advisers, get involved with the commodities market, become professors at local universities, become real estate developers/re-developers and even end up cleaning up Wall Street/the government's messes. They are more likely to work face-to-face with customers, clients, contractors and students -- the stakeholders. Of course, they're the ones who get yelled at when things go wrong even though they are much more in touch with people's actual needs than the 1 percenters. Since people around here are more likely to know how things work "down at the farm", our graduates are the ones in Chicago and Peoria handing the tangible assets in the commodities market (the University of Chicago also produces these; they are probably the most legendary financial school for those who understand the big picture). Still, they have a harder time finding well-paying jobs than those from the Wall Street schools.

 

Nonetheless,  people who would be involved with the sciences did get steered toward Wall Street. All those computer whizzes, mathematicians and physicists got the really good financial jobs, not the finance majors. The belief was that creating new instruments and algorithms was the secret to long-term financial prosperity (or even short-term; if things go wrong just take the money and run), so the mathematicians cooked up formulas, the physicists did their thing since at the granular level money follows the path of least resistance just like water and the computer whizzes wrote the code to make race through the processors. Since the models were so dependent on formulas and algorithms, a number going out of the range of possibilities specified in the model could break it. Generalists can foresee those numbers going out of range, but they either shut up because there was money to be made, were told that everything would be OK by the model-makers or didn't think that the numbers wouldn't go out of range themselves because their belief systems included concepts such as constant growth, low energy costs, moderate unemployment and assets retaining their value.

 

There's the problem: Employers today want specialists and punish generalists. Since so many generalists were cranked out starting in the '60s, employers feel that there is an oversupply of them in the job market. Young generalists are punished the most -- sales and manual labor are often their only choices and if they don't like it, T.S. "They really should have known." But nobody told them. Their folks were able to make money as generalists and schools can't tell someone that their picking the wrong major. The growing distaste for generalists has lead to the boat being steered by 10 different people at once -- each located in different parts of the ship.

Home Prices Heading for Triple-Dip

 

"The besieged housing market has even further to fall before home prices really hit rock bottom.

 

According to Fiserv (FISV - News), a financial analytics company, home values are expected to fall another 3.6% by next June, pushing them to a new low of 35% below the peak reached in early 2006 and marking a triple dip in prices.

 

Several factors will be working against the housing market in the upcoming months, including an increase in foreclosure activity and sustained high unemployment, explained David Stiff, Fiserv's chief economist."

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/113725/home-prices-heading-triple-dip-cnnmoney?mod=realestate-sell

 

U.S. manufacturing growth slows in October

ISM business index paints mixed picture of factory activity

 

"WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Growth in the U.S. manufacturing sector decelerated in October as production and inventories declined, according to a closely followed index.

 

The Institute for Supply Management said its manufacturing gauge dropped to 50.8% last month, just slightly above a 2011 low, from 51.6% in September.

 

Economists surveyed by MarketWatch had expected the closely followed index to rise to 52.1%."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ism-us-manufacturing-growth-slows-in-october-2011-11-01

 

We are not the only ones seeing a noticable drop in their manufacturing sector.

 

China, U.K. Manufacturing

 

"The Purchasing Managers’ Index fell to 50.4 in October from 51.2 in September, the China Federation of Logistics and Purchasing said in a statement today. The U.K. measure, based on a survey by Markit Economics and the Chartered Institute of Purchasing and Supply, dropped to 47.4 from a revised 50.8 in September, according to an e-mailed report in London today."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-01/ism-index-of-u-s-manufacturing-decreased-to-50-8-in-october-from-51-6.html

Home Prices Heading for Triple-Dip

 

"The besieged housing market has even further to fall before home prices really hit rock bottom.

 

According to Fiserv (FISV - News), a financial analytics company, home values are expected to fall another 3.6% by next June, pushing them to a new low of 35% below the peak reached in early 2006 and marking a triple dip in prices.

 

Several factors will be working against the housing market in the upcoming months, including an increase in foreclosure activity and sustained high unemployment, explained David Stiff, Fiserv's chief economist."

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/113725/home-prices-heading-triple-dip-cnnmoney?mod=realestate-sell

 

U.S. manufacturing growth slows in October

ISM business index paints mixed picture of factory activity

 

"WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Growth in the U.S. manufacturing sector decelerated in October as production and inventories declined, according to a closely followed index.

 

The Institute for Supply Management said its manufacturing gauge dropped to 50.8% last month, just slightly above a 2011 low, from 51.6% in September.

 

Economists surveyed by MarketWatch had expected the closely followed index to rise to 52.1%."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ism-us-manufacturing-growth-slows-in-october-2011-11-01

 

This is an advertorial and it appears it linked to a real estate lobbyist, which is using portions of a previously published article.

 

Here is the article as written:  http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/31/real_estate/home_prices/index.htm

what!? this might be the first time mts ever researched an actually posted a link - historic!  :laugh:

Wow, that was quite an account!

There are two types of finance majors out there. The kind that went to schools that funnel kids straight to "Wall Street" (or into similar roles) and the ones that didn't. .... Ones that attended the Wall Street schools (mostly on the East Coast, but also add in University of Chicago and some schools out West)

University of Chicago: that figures

 

Right now, Greece is getting the neo-liberal/University of Chicago/IMF treatment and they don't like it.  The IMF treatment is what is applied to "developing countries", not a member of the Eurozone: extreme austerity.  The fix right now is shrinking their economy. 

We continue to be stuck just below the zero mark needed to deal with the incoming workforce. Reducing the unemployed levels will take a lot more jobs than this.

 

U.S. private-sector jobs up 110,000 in October

 

"Payrolls rose 110,000, as services employment gained 114,000 and goods-producing employment fell 4,000. Economists had expected an overall gain of about 100,000.

 

“The recent trend in private employment is probably below a pace consistent with a stable unemployment rate and reflects the sluggish pace of GDP growth exhibited earlier this year,” said Joel Prakken, chairman of Macroeconomic Advisers, which produces the report from anonymous payroll data supplied by Automatic Data Processing Inc."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-private-sector-jobs-up-110000-in-october-2011-11-02

 

Euro-zone Oct. manufacturing PMI falls to 47.1

 

"FRANKFURT (MarketWatch) -- Manufacturing activity across the 17-nation euro zone contracted more than initially thought in October, according to the final reading of the Markit manufacturing purchasing managers index for the region released Wednesday. The index fell to 47.1 in October from 48.5 in September and came in below a preliminary estimate of 47.3. A reading of less than 50 signals a contraction in activity, while a figure of more than 50 signals growth. On a national basis, Ireland was the only country to show growth with a reading of 50.1. "The latest manufacturing PMI further emphasizes the marked reversal of fortunes for a sector that was the leading light of the economic recovery," said Rob Dobson, senior economist at Markit."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/euro-zone-oct-manufacturing-pmi-falls-to-471-2011-11-02

Considering they can't even project 6-8 months out correctly, these types of long term projections are worthless. But it will be interesting to track and see how they do.

 

Fed slices growth outlook, ups jobless view

 

"WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The Federal Reserve on Wednesday sliced its growth outlook sharply for this year, 2012 and 2013, and also significantly increased its unemployment rate forecast. The Fed's board members and presidents now see 2011 GDP between 1.6% and 1.7%, 2012 GDP between 2.5% and 2.9%, 2013 GDP between 3% and 3.5% and 2014 GDP between 3% and 3.9%. Its last outlook -- published before the Commerce Department sharply cut its estimates of first- and second-quarter growth -- called for 2011 GDP between 2.7% and 2.9%, 2012 GDP between 3.3% and 3.7%, and 2013 GDP between 3.5% and 4.2%. The unemployment rate is now forecast between 9% and 9.1% this year, between 8.5% and 8.7% in 2012, between 7.8% and 8.2% in 2013 and between 6.8% and 7.7% in 2014. Even the Fed's long-term GDP and jobless forecasts changed, with the GDP estimate sliced by a tenth of a percentage point and the top end of the jobless rate up four-tenths to 6%. On personal consumption expenditure inflation, it now sees 2.7% to 2.9% inflation this year, 1.4% to 2% inflation next year, 1.5% to 2% inflation in 2013 and 1.5% to 2% inflation in 2014."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fed-slices-growth-outlook-ups-jobless-view-2011-11-02?dist=afterbell

At this rate we have a LONG ways to go.

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hiring-in-us-likely-was-slow-in-october-2011-11-03?dist=afterbell

U.S. economy gains 80,000 jobs in October

Unemployment rate falls to 9.0% from 9.1%

 

"WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The U.S. only added 80,000 jobs in October, but hiring occurred at a faster pace in late summer than originally reported and the unemployment rate ticked lower to 9.0%, the Labor Department reported Friday."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-economy-gains-80000-jobs-in-october-2011-11-04

Knife catching can really hurt sometimes.

 

The great $26 billion real estate swindle

Commentary: Pity anyone who took the tax credit to buy a house

 

"BOSTON (MarketWatch) — Call it the Great Rock & Roll Real Estate Swindle. Call it a $26 billion Bait & Switch. Call it the Mother of All Boondoggles.

 

Call it whatever you want.

 

But as foreclosures surge again and house prices continue to slide, new data out Monday reveals more of the grim verdict on the $26 billion federal program in 2009 and 2010 to offer tax credits to home buyers."

 

"According to Zillow, prices during that time averaged about $186,000.

 

In other words, based at least on average prices, you’ve lost about $14,500 — nearly twice the value of the credit."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-great-26-billion-real-estate-swindle-2011-11-08

Anybody else getting direct mail offering home value insurance? I got a letter from a company that will pay out a specified amount if you are forced to sell your home for less than it was worth in the past.

 

Capitalism!

Anybody else getting direct mail offering home value insurance? I got a letter from a company that will pay out a specified amount if you are forced to sell your home for less than it was worth in the past.

 

Capitalism!

 

If its (appears) too good to be true or plain crazy, it most likely is!

Well, it's not free, I'll tell you that!

"We decline to payout your claim because you fraudulently accepted a lowball offer, have a nice day"  I bet they have the form made up in Word already.

My employer just finished the fiscal year with record sales and record earnings per share.  We are a manufacturing company.

"We decline to payout your claim because you fraudulently accepted a lowball offer, have a nice day"  I bet they have the form made up in Word already.

 

Possibly, but if the word "forced" from GCrites80s really means "forced," then that wouldn't happen--if you're accepting an offer, then you're not "forced."  If it were really just against forced sales like foreclosure or eminent domain, that would be an interesting concept.  (I still wouldn't go for it, though.)

I'm going to go back and read the brochure again when I get home, but I think they meant "forced" as in took a new job in another city, became empty nesters or want a larger house because of kids.

An the next one is almost down for the count with Spain waiting in the wings. Here is a thought, they simply have to much debt and not enough growth, even Germany is nearing a recession.

 

Dollar surges as Italian bond yields spike

Italian 10-year yield tops 7% after margin boost; sterling weakens

 

"NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — The dollar jumped against the euro on Wednesday after Italian government bond yields surged and raised fears the euro zone’s third-largest economy could need a bailout."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dollar-up-euro-tumbles-as-italy-yields-spike-2011-11-09

 

Banks' use of ECB emergency-lending facility soars

 

"FRANKFURT (MarketWatch) -- Use of the European Central Bank's emergency overnight lending window hit an eight-month high Tuesday, amid growing concern about the health of the euro-zone banking system.

 

Banks borrowed EUR7.735 billion from the marginal lending facility, which charges a punitive rate of 2.0%, up from EUR1.246 billion Monday, ECB data showed Wednesday.

 

That was the highest level since March 1, when banks borrowed EUR15.104 billion."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/banks-use-of-ecb-emergency-lending-facility-soars-2011-11-09

 

 

 

I'm going to go back and read the brochure again when I get home, but I think they meant "forced" as in took a new job in another city, became empty nesters or want a larger house because of kids.

 

I've got the brochure in front of me now and yep, that's pretty much it. It also came with a graph stating that real estate in 43212 is declining in value, a statement that the Franklin County Auditor disagrees with. Most parts of Franklin County did lose value by the end of the 2000s, but not Grandview, 5xNW, Downtown, Short North/Italian Viallage/VV and Bexley.

This type of sewer infrastructure repair is hanging over many major US cities.

 

Ala.'s Jefferson County to file bankruptcy: report

 

"SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Alabama's Jefferson County, which includes Birmingham, the state's largest city, will file for bankruptcy, the Birmingham News reported in its online edition late Wednesday. The $4.1 billion bankruptcy would rank as the largest municipal-bankruptcy filing in U.S. history, edging out the largest-to-date 1994 filing by Orange County, Calif., which had $1.64 billion in investment losses. The Jefferson County Commission voted 4 to 1 in favor of the filing, according to the newspaper. The county is saddled with $3.14 billion in debt for the expansion and repair of its sewer system."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/alas-jefferson-county-to-file-bankruptcy-report-2011-11-09?dist=afterbell

 

IMF chief warns of a 'lost decade' for global economy

 

"The head of the International Monetary Fund, Christine Lagarde, has warned that the global economy is at risk of being plunged into a "lost decade".

 

Ms Lagarde said the ongoing debt crisis in Europe has resulted in an uncertain outlook for the global economy.

 

The IMF chief added that whilst efforts to solve the crisis were heading in the right direction, more needed to be done to restore confidence.

 

Speaking in China, Ms Lagarde called upon Beijing to rebalance its economy.

 

"Our sense is that if we do not act boldly and if we do not act together, the economy around the world runs the risk of downward spiral of uncertainty, financial instability and potential collapse of global demand," she said.

 

"We could run the risk of what some commentators are already calling the lost decade," Ms Lagarde added."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15649985

 

 

Some positive news on the economy. Of course its almost getting to the point you have to wait for the revision to see what the number really will be. (Example: September was reports as 0.2% but it was revised to negative -0.1, a -.3 percent decline from the first number.)

 

Industrial production expands 0.7% in October

 

"The October gain was the biggest since July and was stronger than the 0.4% increase expected by analysts. However, industrial output in September was revised to a decline of 0.1% compared with the initial estimate of a 0.2% gain."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/industrial-production-expands-07-in-october-2011-11-16

 

Still a bottom of the barrel number, but a least its going up a little.

 

Home-builder index hits best level in 17 months

 

"The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo housing market index rose 3 points to 20 in November, which is the best reading since May 2010 and above the 19 seen in a MarketWatch-compiled economist poll. October’s level was downwardly revised by a point to 17, but nonetheless the index has climbed 6 points over two months."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/home-builder-index-hits-best-level-in-17-months-2011-11-16

 

If oil goes up much more it will starting putting a major dent in any growth.

 

Crude oil cracks $100 for first time since June

 

"NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Crude oil futures on Wednesday broke through $100 a barrel for the first time since June, capping off a quick rise in crude futures from $75 since early October."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/crude-oil-cracks-100-for-first-time-since-june-2011-11-16