Jump to content

Featured Replies

I agree that the student loan debt is a blessing in disguise for many people.  But many people whistled through this time period without any problems.  They did not learn those lessons and so have not organized their lives around surviving the next financial crisis and preparing a secure retirement. 

  • Replies 5.9k
  • Views 286.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Most Popular Posts

  • Can you imagine the economic and population growth we would have if we let more people in? My wife and I know a half-dozen people from Ukraine who want to come here and not just because of the war. Th

  • BREAKING: The April Jobs Report is out!   - The Unemployment rate is at 3.4% - The Unemployment rate is the lowest in 50 years - The Unemployment rate under Trump never reached thi

  • ryanlammi
    ryanlammi

    I agree. We should make college education essentially free for prospective students. Why make kids borrow the money?

Posted Images

I think the bigger problem, and a skewing of the numbers, comes from the amount of young people who went to college because the economy sucked or because it was what was expected of them, incurred a bunch of debt, but never graduated.  I'm amazed by how many people I find with 2-3 years of college but no degree.

Study: Renting Smarter Than Buying for Half of Homeowners

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/study-renting-smarter-than-buying-for-half-of-homeowners/ar-AA7xRb5?ocid=iehp

 

from the article....

 

"About 40 million households, or more than half of current homeowners, would have actually been better off financially by renting and investing during the particular period in which they bought, according to a report released Tuesday from HelloWallet, a workforce optimization and research firm."

 

 

This is a different set of young people than when I first started posting some 6 or 7 years ago.  I guess the first set has mostly moved on.

 

I am a Miami U grad, degree in Finance.  Graduated in 1983, so I'm over 50 now.  Not sure how much has changed since 1983.  Back then, we were in the middle of an Ohio Depression, with over 1 million people out of work in the state (my number, can't confirm it, but unemployment in the state was about 13%, with so many companies laying off.)  Like recent grads, we could not get jobs.  I knew of only 2 people who got jobs right away, and both were with out-of-state banks that no longer exist.  So I loved computers and hung around another 1.5 year to get a Computer Science degree.

 

The big difference between then and now is the shape of the recover.  By 1985, the recover was in full force in Ohio.  This is a big contrast to the path of the current recovery.

 

 

This is a different set of young people than when I first started posting some 6 or 7 years ago.  I guess the first set has mostly moved on.

 

I am a Miami U grad, degree in Finance.  Graduated in 1983, so I'm over 50 now.  Not sure how much has changed since 1983.  Back then, we were in the middle of an Ohio Depression, with over 1 million people out of work in the state (my number, can't confirm it, but unemployment in the state was about 13%, with so many companies laying off.)  Like recent grads, we could not get jobs.  I knew of only 2 people who got jobs right away, and both were with out-of-state banks that no longer exist.  So I loved computers and hung around another 1.5 year to get a Computer Science degree.

 

The big difference between then and now is the shape of the recover.  By 1985, the recover was in full force in Ohio.  This is a big contrast to the path of the current recovery.

 

 

I agree that this is a very different situation than the early 1980s.  Interest rates and taxes were higher then, but the recovery was much faster and college graduates were able to find professional employment with professional wages relatively quickly.  College graduates had very little student loan debt by comparison to today and many if not most people did not qualify for credit cards that let them carry a large balance from month to month.

 

As for more recent history, in 2006 I had a temp job in an Amazon-type distribution center making $12.85/hr.  Now it's 2014 and I'm hearing ads on the radio that Amazon is hiring people at $11.50/hr at its so-called "fulfillment centers".  That's 8 years and wages for the exact same sort of mind-numbing job have fallen relative to inflation. 

 

 

In the past I posted a bit on the topic of one's financial destiny being tied to the year they are born (more precisely, the year one enters the work force full-time).

 

I've read a couple of studies (can't recall the links now) that said that the single biggest determinent of one's financial health was indeed, the year they were born.

 

here is an example.. http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/silent-generation-wins-life-lottery-as-richest-us-age-group/ar-AA7J44p?ocid=iehp

 

20 years ago the elderly (60+) were the about the poorest in the country and had the highest poverty rate.  Now 2 decades later that segment is the wealthiest with the lowest poverty rate.  The difference... the current elderly were born in the 1930s and early 40s.  They entered the job market in the late 50s when there was a huge labor shortage, got great raises, benefits, and pensions..... bought houses before housing inflation took off...benerfited from a soaring stock market starting in 1980 when they were mid-career..... (and got good returns on their bank CDs all along) and saw government programs for them expand tremendously.  As the article says, their title of richest elderly generation ever is not about to be challenged by the subsequent generations.

 

 

This is a different set of young people than when I first started posting some 6 or 7 years ago.  I guess the first set has mostly moved on.

 

I am a Miami U grad, degree in Finance.  Graduated in 1983, so I'm over 50 now.  Not sure how much has changed since 1983.  Back then, we were in the middle of an Ohio Depression, with over 1 million people out of work in the state (my number, can't confirm it, but unemployment in the state was about 13%, with so many companies laying off.)  Like recent grads, we could not get jobs.  I knew of only 2 people who got jobs right away, and both were with out-of-state banks that no longer exist.  So I loved computers and hung around another 1.5 year to get a Computer Science degree.

 

The big difference between then and now is the shape of the recover.  By 1985, the recover was in full force in Ohio.  This is a big contrast to the path of the current recovery.

 

 

I agree that this is a very different situation than the early 1980s.  Interest rates and taxes were higher then, but the recovery was much faster and college graduates were able to find professional employment with professional wages relatively quickly.  College graduates had very little student loan debt by comparison to today and many if not most people did not qualify for credit cards that let them carry a large balance from month to month.

 

As for more recent history, in 2006 I had a temp job in an Amazon-type distribution center making $12.85/hr.  Now it's 2014 and I'm hearing ads on the radio that Amazon is hiring people at $11.50/hr at its so-called "fulfillment centers".  That's 8 years and wages for the exact same sort of mind-numbing job have fallen relative to inflation. 

 

 

 

Hell, the job I had loading semis at 4AM in 1999 pays the exact same that it did then: $11 to start, $12 after 30 days.

In the past I posted a bit on the topic of one's financial destiny being tied to the year they are born (more precisely, the year one enters the work force full-time).

 

I've read a couple of studies (can't recall the links now) that said that the single biggest determinent of one's financial health was indeed, the year they were born.

 

here is an example.. http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/silent-generation-wins-life-lottery-as-richest-us-age-group/ar-AA7J44p?ocid=iehp

 

20 years ago the elderly (60+) were the about the poorest in the country and had the highest poverty rate.  Now 2 decades later that segment is the wealthiest with the lowest poverty rate.  The difference... the current elderly were born in the 1930s and early 40s.  They entered the job market in the late 50s when there was a huge labor shortage, got great raises, benefits, and pensions..... bought houses before housing inflation took off...benerfited from a soaring stock market starting in 1980 when they were mid-career..... (and got good returns on their bank CDs all along) and saw government programs for them expand tremendously.  As the article says, their title of richest elderly generation ever is not about to be challenged by the subsequent generations.

 

 

Exactly.  But those people are convinced that they achieved all of that through their "hard work" when relatively few of them worked a 60+ hour week or kept two jobs going in adulthood.  And they've all been convinced to vote tea party and therefore destroy the circumstances that enabled their relatively luxurious lifestyles for their grandchildren. 

 

 

"Exactly.  But those people are convinced that they achieved all of that through their "hard work" when relatively few of them worked a 60+ hour week or kept two jobs going in adulthood."

 

Leaving the political out of this (although I'm inclined to agree with you), those 40 hours/week came at a nice, steady pace.  Not anywhere as hurried-up and stressful as we have it today.  Plenty of "down time" for training as well.  And when they got off work, they had lots of free time because someone at home kept the house clean, the laundry done up, and shopping done, and the food cooked. 

 

My parents belong(ed) to that generation.  No house chores were done in the evening (maybe yard work). My Dad worked hard, I'm sure.  Some overtime during certain fiscal times of the year. But he had all the time needed to relax and recharge in the evening with his hobbies.

 

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Delaware OH.  Wow, 115!

 

 

Delaware OH.  Wow, 115!

 

15.  Geagua County at 44, Medina 116.  Even Summit above average.

  • 2 weeks later...

Business Briefing: Advertised Job Openings Are Close to 14-Year High http://t.co/vQQ1ti2F6F

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Something there has to give, assuming those stats are accurate (the more I learn about how these macroeconomic stats are tabulated, sometimes the less I trust them).  Either the gap between wage increases and inflation (1.7% less 1.3%, per that article) will need to widen or the number of open jobs will need to come down.  Or perhaps we really are seeing a shift to some new paradigm in which many of those jobs aren't actually urgently needed and employers can afford to have those positions unfilled for extended periods, and therefore aren't as pressured to sweeten their offers.

 

Then again, I sometimes wonder about those wage stats.  Does it include full cost of employment or just cash?

Many (most?) employers who post online ads do it to draw attention that they're "doing well," that they're expanding, that investors and customers can feel reassured of the company's viability.

 

Then the jobs disappear from the online boards. Then the same ones reappear a little later.

 

Frankly it's a total scam and I wonder if there are some labor violations here.

 

 

 

  • 3 months later...

Bloomberg Business 2:01 AM - 8 May 2015

‏@business

Here's how much New York and San Francisco's tight housing markets are hurting the economy http://bloom.bg/1caQ6FZ

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Many (most?) employers who post online ads do it to draw attention that they're "doing well," that they're expanding, that investors and customers can feel reassured of the company's viability.

 

Then the jobs disappear from the online boards. Then the same ones reappear a little later.

 

Frankly it's a total scam and I wonder if there are some labor violations here.

 

 

 

Not knowing that can waste hundreds or even thousands of hours of a person's time. Network in person as much as possible!

  • 2 months later...

Railroads are often a good early indicator of economic trends as they haul so many raw materials. They are often the first sign of good or bad times ahead....

 

Progressive Railroad ‏@rail_pro_mag  58m58 minutes ago

Rail Layoffs Seen Rising as N. America Cargo Slump Saps Profits http://bloom.bg/1JeOODc

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

^I actually read something about this very recently on some financial site.  Coal has declined precipitously as a result of the transition to natural gas, environmental regulations, etc.  And coal shipments make up a pretty significant portion of rail freight traffic.  Couple that with a smaller grain harvest and the decline in the price of oil, and I'm not surprised that they would be having issues.

 

Not sure I buy them as a leading indicator of overall economic health, however--outside of the retail sales numbers, other indicators this week have been good.  I think we will continue on with this sort of mediocre economic growth for some time.

More from the "Boxcar Index":

 

Carload traffic continues to dip http://t.co/wmeFzqhoC3

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 2 weeks later...

"real value of a $15 minimum wage depends on where you live"

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/03/the-real-value-of-a-15-minimum-wage-depends-on-where-you-live/

 

CLfQM7kUsAARikN.png:large

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 4 weeks later...

Aging population + low birth rates = more home sellers than buyers....uh oh!

 

Our new brief shows how #immigrationreform can help the US housing market: http://t.co/hK0MipnkkH http://t.co/NEbZmUGg7N  ttp://twtd.by/rene

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 3 weeks later...

The "boxcar index" -- a leading economic indicator -- is showing a bump up in economic activity....

 

Wednesday, September 09, 2015

Rail traffic continues to show signs of growth

Written by  Carolina Worrell, Managing Editor

 

For the week ending Sept. 2, 2015, total U.S. rail traffic was 567,206 carloads and intermodal units, up 8% compared with the same week in 2014, the Association of American Railroads (AAR) reported on Sept. 9, 2015.

 

Total carloads for the week ending were 287,339 carloads, down 0.4% compared with the same week in 2014, while U.S. weekly intermodal volume was 279,867 containers and trailers, up 17% compared to 2014.

 

Seven of the 10 carload commodity groups posted an increase compared with the same week in 2014. They included: motor vehicles and parts, up 19.5% to 18,534 carloads; miscellaneous carloads, up 18.3% to 9,213 carloads and grain, up 9.6% to 18,780 carloads. Commodity groups that posted decreases compared with the same week in 2014 included: metallic ores and metals, down 17.3% to 21,145 carloads; petroleum and petroleum products, down 9.1% to 14,240 carloads; and coal, down 2.8% to 108,208 carloads.

 

MORE:

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/freight/class-i/rail-traffic-continues-to-show-signs-of-growth.html

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 1 month later...

Ghost Towns of the 21st Century

After factories close, will one-time manufacturing hubs ever recover?

ALANA SEMUELS  OCT 20, 2015

 

BRUCETON, Tenn.—When textile companies started sending jobs overseas in the 1990s, this town wasn’t spared. Here, the Henry I. Siegel company made jeans and suits in three giant plants, employing 1,700. It started laying people off in 1995. Over time, Siegel, known locally as H.I.S., closed its wash plant, its distribution center, and its cutting center. It laid off its last 55 workers in 2000.

 

In the 15 years since then, this town has struggled to figure out how to survive. The three giant H.I.S. plants in town are empty, their windows broken, their paint peeling. A few new manufacturing operations have come, but they’ve also left. One by one, the businesses on the main streets of Bruceton and neighboring town Hollow Rock have closed, leaving modern-day ghost towns. In downtown Bruceton, the bank is gone, the supermarket and the fashion store have closed, and there’s a parking lot where there used to be another supermarket. All that’s left is a pharmacy where seniors come to get their prescriptions filled. 

 

MORE:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/ghost-towns-of-the-21st-century/411343/

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 3 weeks later...

Pretty amazing graphic. From...

http://howmuch.net/

 

CTYlwWhWoAE87LC.png:large

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 2 weeks later...

High marginal tax rates have devastated California’s economy... ;)

https://t.co/FXj4xY9QcC

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 2 weeks later...

The total collapse in shopping mall construction: https://t.co/Uqa6X1Wvn5

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

The total collapse in shopping mall construction: https://t.co/Uqa6X1Wvn5

 

Enclosed malls encountered a perfect storm of sorts; the inability to gracefully control loitering, the rise of online shopping, and the weak economy.  The latter two are synergized by the strongest part of the economy being the most tech savvy.

^Loitering killed the malls?  Really?  The internet has "killed" (diminished the importance of) malls.  I really don't think there is any other driving force that even comes close.

^Loitering killed the malls?  Really?  The internet has "killed" (diminished the importance of) malls.  I really don't think there is any other driving force that even comes close.

 

I think he's referring to his hyperlocal situation of Randall Park Mall. Ironically, sprawl created that mall (and Euclid Square) and helped killed them as well by bringing to and later pulling away from them the collective wealth and purchasing power of the surrounding areas.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

^Loitering killed the malls?  Really?  The internet has "killed" (diminished the importance of) malls.  I really don't think there is any other driving force that even comes close.

 

^Loitering killed the malls?  Really?  The internet has "killed" (diminished the importance of) malls.  I really don't think there is any other driving force that even comes close.

 

I think he's referring to his hyperlocal situation of Randall Park Mall. Ironically, sprawl created that mall (and Euclid Square) and helped killed them as well by bringing to and later pulling away from them the collective wealth and purchasing power of the surrounding areas.

 

Ask the people at Beachwood Place or South Park Mall if uncontrolled loitering teens isn't an "issue" for a lot of their potential shoppers.

 

The internet damaged brick and mortar retail in general, but places where stores have outdoor access aren't hit as hard.  That's part of why new ones are getting built.  It's why Randall Mall is demolished, and Southgate is much smaller than it was but still functions.

Internet shopping AND big box stores.  That's what killed the malls.  Also, stores with outdoor access were not as prevalent, or at least not as clustered into 'lifestyle centers', during the heyday of indoor malls.  Moroever, new, bigger, and better indoor malls contributed to the downfall of their predecessors.  Beachwood took the high-end away from Severance.  I would suspect places like SouthPark did the same for ParmaTown and Randall.  Now, Beachwood and SouthPark are dealing with places like Legacy Village, Eton and Crocker Park, which weren't around a few decades ago.  Richmond lost its anchor tenant because another Macy's opened up at University Square.  Loitering might be a small part of the problem, but hardly the driving force.  Kids always loitered in malls (i.e. "mallrats").  They were always viewed as somewhat of a nuisance, but people still shopped at malls when their alternatives were fewer.

I don't know what you all are talking about. If we weren't in a mall we would do terrible. Outdoor access is just an excuse not to come in the store. Stores need to cluster, not be next to empty H&R Block offices, financial advisors, dialysis facilities and pizza delivery that you see in strip malls. The main problem with malls is that they built too many of them in the 80 and 90s. That's over. The Internet's share of sales is still only what catalogs were.

 

Malls did lose out on record stores and radio Shack since those stores got replaced by computers and phones.

Internet shopping AND big box stores.  That's what killed the malls.  Also, stores with outdoor access were not as prevalent, or at least not as clustered into 'lifestyle centers', during the heyday of indoor malls.  Moroever, new, bigger, and better indoor malls contributed to the downfall of their predecessors.  Beachwood took the high-end away from Severance.  I would suspect places like SouthPark did the same for ParmaTown and Randall.  Now, Beachwood and SouthPark are dealing with places like Legacy Village, Eton and Crocker Park, which weren't around a few decades ago.  Richmond lost its anchor tenant because another Macy's opened up at University Square.  Loitering might be a small part of the problem, but hardly the driving force.  Kids always loitered in malls (i.e. "mallrats").  They were always viewed as somewhat of a nuisance, but people still shopped at malls when their alternatives were fewer.

 

Mallrats were pretty much slackers, they rarely even fought one on one.  It's different now, for one thing those kids are online now, not hanging out.  Plus, for the most part, they were the kids of other shoppers (regardless of race).  The incidents are rare but they are highly publicized and they make a difference. 

 

Wasn't a place like Southgate a "lifestyle center" of its era? 

Oh, I remember fights at the mall.  Might've been in a few during my youth.  There just weren't any cell phones to record them and post them on YouTube.

 

Regardless, you are also recollecting a day when you weren't so jaded.  You're getting old, my man.

There are definitely some malls that are well and truly dead, but saying that "the malls" have been "killed" might be going a step or two too far.  America suffers from a surfeit of retail space.  Malls are part of that picture but I'd be interested in knowing whether dead malls are really more prevalent (relative to all malls) than dead outdoor strip centers or dead standalone big boxes.  Mall construction has certainly plunged from its heyday, but that's different than saying malls themselves are dead; supply currently exceeding demand does not mean that there is no demand.

I'm seeing urban malls doing much better than suburban malls. The shopping mall makes sense in a dense urban core. Westfield San Francisco is still very busy, and it's built right on top of Powell Street BART Station. Oakland's City Center Mall is totally dead outside 9-5 hours, but it's actually viable during business hours (being dead at night applies to all Oakland retail). Oakland City Center Mall is built right on top of 12th Street BART Station, and it's one of the earliest examples of a shopping mall built on top of a heavy rail subway. Its design is dated, but it was very unique for its time when everyone was building suburban malls. If anything, malls need mass transit to survive. That's really what's going on here. Millennials aren't buying cars, and you need a car to get to most suburban shopping malls.

 

The glut of retail space is in the suburbs. What's happening is the transformation of America. Millennials seem to only shop locally in urban areas, and let's pray that continues in the face of on-demand delivery. Street-level urban retail is absolutely critical for a vibrant city. We can't have great cities without great urban retail. Foot traffic is essential to promoting dense urbanity. Online retail is killing suburban retail the most. The problem is most malls are built in suburban areas requiring expensive car transport to get to them (though I guess most major cities also service suburban malls with busses). People are less likely to shop locally if it costs them money in gas, insurance, care maintenance, etc.

 

And millennials hate the bus, so even if cities have bus routes servicing suburban malls, very few people enjoy riding a bus as opposed to a train. It makes sense that the generational decline in car ownership is happening at the same time as the decline in suburban retail.

 

*Online retail is what's scary due to tax advantages, but that could change if it's treated the same as brick-and-mortar retail (having to charge everybody in every state local sales tax at point of sale). The scarier prospect is on-demand delivery apps. Brick-and-mortar retail's biggest advantage is that it's there when you need it (and you get to see the stuff before you buy it). If we've got a bunch of Amazon warehouses everywhere with drones and self-driving cars making runs to people's flats for beer, wine, groceries, and every damn thing under the sun, all brick-and-mortar retail is in trouble. :|

 

That would require brick-and-mortar retail to have a customer experience so insanely awesome that it might not be viable...

 

I really don't want to see America turn into an online-only retail model, because it means our cities are going to get extremely depressing and lame...lamer than many of them are today. The proof is in the pudding. Our best cities also have the best urban retail. Do we just throw that all to the wind? People under-estimate how important small, random social interactions are to human populations. These small interactions improve everyone's quality of life and can lead to a less stratified and less segregated society. I'd like to see the psychology research on places with no surviving brick-and-mortar retail...

"Millenials hate the bus"?

 

That really depends on the city. In Chicago buses are often inundated with millenials/students/"young professionals"/Generation Y types. Example, the best way from the Loop to University of Chicago/Hyde Park is by bus due to the two El trains being too far (with the closest train stops located in unacceptably high crime neighborhoods miles away).

 

Buses are fine provided you don't have to travel more than, say, hmmm, 15-20 miles. I don't think millenials care so much how to get from x to y, just that they have time efficient alternatives to driving.

 

If anything it's suburbanites who hate the bus due to their travelling substantially longer distances.

 

 

 

 

^Fair point. I'm basing this on Muni. No busses are slower than Muni. The millennial hatred of busses may be more a Bay thing...we're just used to such terrible bus conditions it has turned us off of them being used as a mode of transport. Muni could be the worst case scenario, not the national norm.

 

Busses aren't the end of the world if they're reliable and move at a reasonable speed. You're right, still preferable to driving.

I see plenty of millennials on the Cleveland State Line from downtown out to Edgewater and Lakewood. It's a BRT-lite so it moves faster than your average bus -- especially where it runs express on the Shoreway.

 

BTW, speaking of transportation (and in my effort to get us literally back on track), the railroads are reporting that traffic is down compared to last year. Railroad traffic is often a leading economic indicator, as many raw materials needed for manufacturing are carried by railroads. The railroads also carries many finished or semi-finished goods. More freight tonnage (40% of total tonnage) is moved by railroads in the USA than any other mode of transportation...

 

Rail News: Rail Industry Trends

AAR: Rail traffic slowdown continued in Week 46

11/30/2015

 

The latest figures show that U.S. rail traffic is continuing to slow down, with railroads logging a total 532,532 carloads and intermodal units during the week ending Nov. 21 — a 5.7 percent decline compared with the same week in 2014, according to the Association of American Railroads (AAR).

 

Total carloads for the week ending Nov. 21 were 267,830 carloads, down 9.4 percent compared with the same week in 2014, while U.S. weekly intermodal volume was 264,702 containers and trailers, down 1.7 percent compared with 2014.

 

Commodity groups that posted decreases for the week included petroleum and petroleum products, which was down a whopping 25.8 percent. Carloads of metallic ores and metals decreased 22.7 percent; and coal fell 16.8 percent. Commodities that posted increases included miscellaneous carloads, up 12.3 percent; motor vehicles and parts, up 5.9 percent; and nonmetallic minerals, up 2.1 percent.

 

MORE:

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/rail_industry_trends/news/AAR-Rail-traffic-slowdown-continued-in-Week-46--46590

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 1 month later...

7% of US counties have fully recovered from the recession (darkest blue) https://t.co/DMi1BFefu9 https://t.co/uN6DpfKY4m

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

7% of US counties have fully recovered from the recession (darkest blue) https://t.co/DMi1BFefu9 https://t.co/uN6DpfKY4m

 

A quick glance of the map for me indicates the money is in energy (oil exploration, pipelines etc) and government centres (jobs). 

That's somewhat surprising as the public sector suffered some major cuts.  In fact, if you remove those cuts from the equation, the recovery looks much better for Ohio and the Nation as a whole.

  • 5 weeks later...

Where is the USA's protection of its manufacturing base and its workers?

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-12/eu-widens-steel-trade-protection-with-tariffs-on-russia-china

 

Crony capitalism.  What they've done is benefited the steel producers, who tend to be large, at the expense of machine shops, stampers, and other consumers of steel who are smaller.

 

Possibly justifiable from a national defense standpoint as steel mills are tougher to restart than steel users, but let's not imagine it's an "everybody wins" scenario.

Good point.  Blast furnaces are destroyed when they go cold.  The only alternative to continuous use is for someone to pay a big heating bill.

I think the largest still-American steel producer (Nucor) uses almost exclusively electric arc furnaces, which can be stopped and started and vary production according to demand.  Our blast furnaces seem to have been mostly snapped up by ArcelorMittal (usually swooping in to buy the assets out of bankruptcy).

 

See, e.g., http://www.nwitimes.com/business/local/arcelormittal-completes-million-project-on-nation-s-largest-blast-furnace/article_b487d004-10a4-5fda-a96b-1135a9e2ba60.html.

 

I presume that $70 million cost to repair the old Inland Steel Blast Furnace No. 7 included the giant heating bill 327 mentioned to prevent it from going completely cold.  Either way, though, if we're protecting primarily blast-furnace-based steel producers, then we're mostly protecting an Indian steel magnate running his conglomerate out of Luxembourg, who happens to have the remains of fallen American producers as part of his empire.

Create an account or sign in to comment

Recently Browsing 0

  • No registered users viewing this page.