Correction - Locutus did and no longer does and has been banned.

 

I was wondering what happened to him.  We dont have very many conservative voices here, so a bit of a loss there, I think.

 

Anyway.  Im not sure where this thread is going.  A lot of ghetto talk, so an old song from the good old days (by a predominantly black band, whos fan base in Califas was largley latino)

 

The World is a Ghetto

 

Walkin' down the street, smoggy-eyed

Looking at the sky, starry-eyed

Searchin' for the place, weary-eyed

Crying in the night, teary-eyed

 

Don't you know that it's true

That for me and for you

The world is a ghetto

Don't you know that it's true

That for me and for you

The world is a ghetto

 

Wonder when I'll find paradise

Somewhere there's a home sweet and nice

Wonder if I'll find happiness

Never give it up now I guess

 

 

Don't you know that it's true

That for me and for you

The world is a ghetto

Don't you know that it's true

That for me and for you

The world is a ghetto

 

There's no need to search anywhere

Happiness is here, have your share

If you know you're loved, be secure

Paradise is love to be sure

 

Don't you know that it's true

That for me and for you

The world is a ghetto

Don't you know that it's true

That for me and for you

The world is a ghetto

Don't you know that it's true

That for me and for you

The world is a ghetto

Don't you know that it's true

That for me and for you

The world is a ghetto

(The world is a ghetto)

{21 times and fade}

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good song.  DAMN good song.

Again, that's fine, if I'm being silly or uninterested in the actual subject matter.  It just seems that Toledo has some sort of insecurity problem in which it has to compare itself to XXX city to be known or "feel better" about theirselves.  Generalization, sure, but it seems to be somewhat true.  Much like Toledoans resentment of Dayton (for some odd reason) and even Detroit (oy!).

 

So I really can't take any of it seriously.

Oh, no problem with that :D.

 

Just don't say "Fair and Balanced."  I think of Fox News (shudders) ;)

Toledoans resent Dayton...?  I recall on one of those "Skyscraper" sites a bunch of Grand Rapids people making comparisons w. Dayton, which was really odd...for me it was like "huh"? "Grand Rapids?"...

 

Anway this discussion, aside from the "'whither OTR?" theme, is moving towards issues of segregation & integration.

 

Y'all can google this ..there are lot of things online about measuring segregation...like the "dissmiarlity index" and so forth.  So presumably using these mehods one can do comparisons between Ohio metro areas (if this hasnt been done somewhere else online).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Toledoans resent Dayton...?  I recall on one of those "Skyscraper" sites a bunch of Grand Rapids people making comparisons w. Dayton, which was really odd...for me it was like "huh"? "Grand Rapids?"...

 

No comment on Grand Rapids ;). 

MY issue with Grand Rapids is that for a metropolitan area of "1.3 million," it dearly takes up about half the damn state (exaggeration, but not far from the truth).  Basically, it's as if Marietta decided to put ALL of SE Ohio within it's "metropolitan area" and cite it had "1.1 million people."  Western Michigan's largest economic engine is Grand Rapids, thus the commuting patterns (per Census) states that Muskegon, Holland, and such are part of "Greater Grand Rapids."  Or, Grander Rapids (:D)).  ]

 

Thus, if a city has to use commuting patterns in which the actual MSA AND urbanized area of Grand Rapids is the size of Toledo/Youngstown, yet tries to play it up with A). dissing/whining at SE Michigan/Detroit and B). Trying to compare to the 1+ million crowd of Dayton/Rochester/Birmingham, then I got a problem.

 

While Grand Rapids has a gorgeous, intact (and surprisingly historic) downtown and two neighborhoods of historical note (plus even a Hispanic barrio, viva baby!), the actual metropolitan area feels MUCH smaller than 1.3 million.  Perhaps Canton should consider adding Alliance, East Liverpool, and Tuscarawas County to it. 

Heh... the best Toldeo/Dayton fight here can't top a good Dayton vs. Grand Rapids fight!

Oy...Grand Rapids...

 

You are giving me a headache, PigBoy...

Sorry... I'll try not to incite any riots. :evil:

I'm just going to say that you know nothing about Toledo. Have you lived there in recent years? Have you gone to school there? Have you seen the mass of Michigan plates at many of Toledo's attractions and restaurants? Last time I went to the zoo, there were more Michigan plates than Ohio ones. Most said "Wayne," "Oakland" etc. Have you seen the limos downtown on Thursday night flashing their Michigan plates?

 

Michigan has 6 million people in their southeast region; Toledo MSA is only 600,000... I hope there are some Michigan plates around... As far as not knowing 'Toledo' that is very subjective.. Many people living in certain cities know far less than outsiders might know about it and blah blah blah, not that I am saying you don't, but I honestly don't think that there is that much to 'know' that you can't find through facts or living in too much more influential metropolitain areas on either side of the city..

 

Anyway, I knew I was going to come off as sounding completely anti-gentrification, but the point that I was trying to make is that it is not the end all and be all as a solution... Of course I love what gentrification has done to areas in Columbus like Short North and Olde Towne East, but there is a fine line that must be treaded very carefully as to not make sure that the poor and established residents are not left behind or forced out. There are many things that can be done besides gentrification that can help out a poor community (usually involving non profit community groups or subisidies that should be provided)..

 

As far as OTR, maybe gentrification is exactly what the area needs, and it has been occuring, especially when you look to the southeast side (cost of homes, ethnicity, ect.). But I still think that many of the poor in OTR are going to simply be forced over the hills out to the west... Sure, OTR may become another great Cincy neighborhood, and hopefully every underprivileged resident that was living there benefits directly from it, but I often think that is just a pipe dream and no real problems are being solved..

So again, I do like types of gentrification (especially the ones when no emminent domain is used), but sometimes it is done simply for developers and what not to make a buck.. I would like to discuss this more and get some other people takes...

It's ok ColDay, nobody knows where Grand Rapids is anyway, outside of maybe the Great Lakes... It may have big numbers supporting it but the average person doesn't even look at it as an actual 'city'. Michiganders think Lansing is bigger, and Ann Arbor is working hard to over take at least GR City in population..

Re: gentrification...

 

I would be pretty happy to see significant gentrification in OTR, despite the unfortunate fact that real poverty issues would not be solved.  The location and character of this neighborhood in particular make it too important to let it decline beyond repair.  Having a crappy neighborhood right next to downtown seems to be really hurtful to Cincinnati's repuation among locals, who loudy proclaim what an awful state the city is in and how it's not safe to be downtown, etc.  That kind of talk surely makes Cincinnati a less attractive place for outsiders (residents or businesses) to move to.  OTR holds too much potential to not be gentrified.

 

For the record, I wouldn't champion gentrification as the solution to everything everywhere; I just think in this particular case it would be good, at least for part of the problem.

 

(By the way, sorry if I'm only repeating the same things someone else has said... I may have missed some things in the lengthy discussions here.)

We dont have very many conservative voices here, so a bit of a loss there

 

Nope!  I can invite you to my work if you are so eager to chat with mindless conservatives.

jeff i just noticed your post and city country city and the world is a ghetto are on the same war record. what a classic. just spin that one while you read this thread!  :mrgreen:

 

hah..yeah, I date myself w. my music choices!    Chocolate City would be a good pick too (more for Dayton...but maybe not...rather than Chocolate City Dayton is Two-Tone Town...which is another dated musical reference).

 

Anyway, back to OTR:

 

The location and character of this neighborhood in particular make it too important to let it decline beyond repair. 

 

Looking at the long-term trends (and assuming that gentrification doesnt take hold) one can see where this neighborhood is heading...depopulation and eventual abandonment.

 

But that probably wont happen for the reasons stated...too hi-viz, too close to downtown.  I dont think Cincinnati will let the place turn into a midwestern version of the South Bronx.

 

 

whoa whoa whoa there. the south bronx is back baybee. it's not yr 70's era south bronx anymore. lots of stuff goin on, as i work there often i can see the changes all the time over many years. yr gonna get your south bronx tour this fall hang on!

But that probably wont happen for the reasons stated...too hi-viz, too close to downtown.  I dont think Cincinnati will let the place turn into a midwestern version of the South Bronx.

 

All I can say is that people have been saying that for decades! And unless people stand up and vote with their dollars, it will continue to be only talk.  Crime will continue to increase, and buildings will continue to be demolished.  And, the people left in OTR will continue to have miserable lives.

 

Of all people, the people on URBAN OHIO should be the most vocal in their support of more rehab and business district revitalization. 

 

If the word gentrification makes you feel uneasy, because it comes with all kind of baggage, then call it something else.  To me it is part of the natural rise and decline of cities and neighborhoods. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

But in the end we all know that...

CLEVELAND ROCKS  :-D

 

 

Once again green st makes the news. The street that gives otr a bad name over and over again.

 

 

Landlord Battling Drug Dealers

 

LAST UPDATE: 9/16/2005 3:50:33 PM

 

 

Cincinnati city leaders have said for years, that one of the keys to helping downtown make a comeback is to get outside investors to pitch in and help rebuild Over the Rhine. But tonight we're going to give you an exclusive, inside look at just how tough it is for investors, even with the best intentions to try to help the troubled community. Local 12's Rich Jaffe found that for one local woman, doing business in the community means an almost daily battle with drug dealers.

 

A married mom from Indian Hill, Gina Strohm inherited the apartment building on Green Street. Roaches, bullet holes, and drug dealers came along with it.

 

"On Monday they threw the rock through my car, and I put out evictions the next day to anybody who was connected to the drugs, and so Thursday, that same guy that had the guns threatened Greg, that the same thing might happen to him or he might get shot."

 

Just yesterday, showing a vacant apartment to a prospective tenant, Strom found two assault rifles.

 

John Heine, Cincinnati Police Division: "We're getting all sorts of guns and sometimes, we're outgunned at some points."

 

Police believe people from outlying communities are trading guns for heroin in Over the Rhine. In another empty apartment they recently found three rifles.

 

"It was a real good thing to get those off the street, they were scoped rifles, they could have been used at any time against anyone, so we're real happy we got those off the street along with the ones yesterday."

 

Keeping drug dealers out of buildings like this is a full time job. Iron gates simply get ripped off their hinges. Checking mailboxes for drugs, today police found nothing, but searching above the door to Strom's building they found a drug scale.

 

"Overnight someone's been in this supposedly empty apartment, where the guns were found just yesterday and what they've left behind really comes as no surprise, up here you can see 9mm shell casings and over here on the counter, a digital scale for weighing your dope."

 

Strom rents primarily to women and families, and believes the good she's doing outweighs the risks.

 

Gina Strohm, Property Owner: "It is a safety net that's essential...) so yeah I could just bail out, I just haven't been shown it's my time to finish this project and move on yet."

 

But every bullet hole moves her a little closer...

 

Rich Jaffe, Local 12.

 

Gina Strohm has nothing but praise for the job Cincinnati Police are doing in the neighborhood. Shortly after our crew left, she tells us drug dealers put two boxes of marijuana in a closet inside her building, then put their own lock on the door. Another man was seen putting a gun in a car across the street. When police were called they confiscated both the dope and the gun.

 

This thread has morphed into a city discussion.  I'm going to move it over there.

I'm Mary Poole the tour guide from the Preservation Association that was attacked at gunpoint in OTR.  You have no idea how sad I am that I no longer feel safe giving this tour.  I love this neighborhood, but there's something about having a loaded 22 pointed at you and being punched that makes you reevaluate things.  I was just one block away from the Findlay Market Parking lot on Elder Street.  I was parked in front of the old Christian Moerlein brewery. (Part of my tour)  Ernest Seay, my attacker, has also been charged with the attempted rape of the young woman in Clifton on Monday, as well as an attempted rape in August of a gas station attendant in Silverton.  I have no idea what the solution is for OTR, I just know that right now I don't feel safe spending time there.

The police can get more aggressive with the criminals. :shoot:

 

Understandably, the cops have backed off because they don't feel like they have the support of the community or the politicians.

 

On a positive note, there are plans to renovate the Christian Moerlein building into a multiuse project just north of Findlay Market.  In addition, 3CDC is buying up large amounts of land along Republic Street...hopefully they will do something positive with those properties.

The area around findlay market is actually the most depressed area of OTR and the city. i would rather it be a .22 then a .44 shotgun or AK. I'm surprised the police aren't more active at and around the market. One major incident will keep people from going to the market.

How 'bout having NO guns pointed at you. I guess that is too much to ask in OTR these days.

Literarygirl;

Thanks for giving of your time to lead the tours.  Unfortunately, similar things have happened to soo many people that I have known. 

 

Welcome to the site, hopefully we can be part of the solution.

Agreed.  Talk is all well and good until you actually face the barrel of a gun.  I never have, fortunately, and I can't fault the opinions of those who have if they feel the need to get out.

Depends on whose talking.

 

My family has some experience tackling some of these issues back east in B-More and DC.  The problem with most people and yes this is most definitely a problem is that many people in this metro are walking around the issue like it doesn't matter.  Talk of the creative class, talk of gentrification really center upon that stretch in OTR and the West End.  If the city wants to stop looking back to the good old days and blaze a path going forward then leadership cats (myself included) need to step up to the plate and set policy for that area.

 

This is not a pussy operation, if you're talking about bringing change then you in many ways have to mirror the acts you despise; OTR is not "I'm cool, I'm urban, I'm urbane, I'm hip, I'm progressive" it's "I've got potential but right now I'm pretty messed up; I need a good old ass whupping, a talking to, and some older brothers who'll slap me around if I mess up again".  I'm a big Cincinnati advocate but OTR is a mirror of our problems we can't sweep this under the rug and we can't daydream, look at the buildings and not ruminate on the people.

 

OTR is a failure of leadership, thoughtful planning, the inability to create a shared vision and sheer laziness of many in the city.  At this point if you are capable yet haven't committed thought or action to improving this area then you're most likely a part of the problem.  The problems in that area are about to intensify the next mayor will have some significant issues to deal with.  Check out the DVD Hood 2 Hood, if you need some perspective.

 

Right now I'm doing a small part by helping some young men that come from that area and with the help of a corporate and individual donors teaching them developmental and leadership skills.  Rest assured that my activity will ramp up going forward and hopefully you guys and gals (are there any) on this board will accordingly step up to the plate and be apart of the "person" change in that area.

I would love to be part of any positive effort with individuals in OTR.  Please keep us appraised.

 

I have a slightly different perspective.  While we should all do our part to solve the social problems in OTR, we must realize that these are HUGE and are national in scope.  Every city in the country has them to differing degrees.  You are not going to end poverty in your lifetime.  Don't get me wrong, you should do your part ... always act locally to solve global problems.  However, most cities do not have their poorest neighborhood, with the highest crime rate, right in the downtown.  If they do, they are a declining city.  A successful Cincinnati (for all people) depends to a significant degree on changing this situation.  I believe that this is a "do or die" situation.  Literally.  People are dying down here, and the city could too. 

 

I haven't seen Hood 2 Hood yet, but I have a feeling the sidewalk vendor down the street sells them, so maybe I'll check it out.

I would love to be part of any positive effort with individuals in OTR.  Please keep us appraised.

 

I have a slightly different perspective.  While we should all do our part to solve the social problems in OTR, we must realize that these are HUGE and are national in scope.  Every city in the country has them to differing degrees.  You are not going to end poverty in your lifetime.  Don't get me wrong, you should do your part ... always act locally to solve global problems.  However, most cities do not have their poorest neighborhood, with the highest crime rate, right in the downtown.  If they do, they are a declining city.  A successful Cincinnati (for all people) depends to a significant degree on changing this situation.  I believe that this is a "do or die" situation.  Literally.  People are dying down here, and the city could too. 

 

You haven't been following the aftermath of Katrina down here in Louisiana, have you.

New Orleans is in a "do or die" situation.  Cincy is nowhere near that (unless the whole city is destroyed within 24 hrs).

Let us know when you've decided to pick up the gun for this revolution.

$100 says your opinion will already be skewed from this thread... ;)

hey jeff i just remembered i saw war live about ten years ago.....in a club in paris france of all places. i had completely forgotten about that. again, a very cool band.

 

Sheriff patrols sought in OTR

 

By Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writer

 

A group of business owners hoping to revitalize the northwest quadrant of Over-the-Rhine believe Cincinnati police are so overwhelmed by crime in that area that more crime-fighting help is needed.

 

The group met last week with Hamilton County Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. to ask that sheriff's deputies patrol the area with Cincinnati police. Leis is considering it.

 

"The crime in Cincinnati is really out of control. We pay Hamilton County taxes, so why can't we ask Hamilton County for help?" asked businessman John Donaldson.

 

Donaldson and others involved in the so-called Brewery District downtown asked Leis for help in a meeting last week.

 

Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune also attended.

 

Hours after that meeting, Donaldson's point seemed to be made when two store clerks at Fairway Market in the 200 block of McMicken Avenue were shot, one fatally, in a robbery.

 

"We have people getting shot and killed every day, it seems like, in Over-the-Rhine," Donaldson said.

 

The Brewery District is also the name of a 2-year-old group Donaldson and others formed to redevelop and bring back the nostalgia of the area historically known as home to Cincinnati's brewing industry. The district generally is viewed as the area between Liberty Street on the south, Central Parkway on the west and McMicken Avenue to the east and north.

 

Crime is the central issue for the business owners.

 

"I certainly hope (Cincinnati police) will be receptive to it," Donaldson said of the request to have deputies help patrol the area.

 

The goal, Donaldson stressed, isn't to belittle Cincinnati police. Instead, he hopes Hamilton County deputies can patrol high-crime areas to supplement Cincinnati police.

 

"Why not try to use resources that we have available?" Donaldson asked. "This would be a revolutionary idea that could reshape Cincinnati."

 

Police spokesman Lt. Kurt Byrd said Chief Thomas Streicher was the only one in the department who could discuss the issue. The chief was out of the office Monday.

 

Leis, through spokesman Steve Barnett, declined comment, but Barnett said Leis is trying to set up a meeting with Streicher to discuss the idea.

 

"They'll have to meet before anything is decided," Barnett said.

 

Back in July, Portune asked Leis and Streicher to discuss allowing deputies to patrol or provide other help to address concerns of violent crime. Streicher didn't respond.

 

"The sheriff said at that time, he could help and he said again (at the Friday meeting) he could help," Portune said. "The sheriff committed to developing a specific proposal within two weeks."

 

The help could include having sheriff's deputies patrol Cincinnati streets in areas where crime is seen as particularly bad, including part of Over-the-Rhine, Portune said.

 

"The last time I checked, Over-the-Rhine is in Hamilton County," Portune said.

 

The money to pay for such services by the sheriff, Portune said, could come from savings already realized by Hamilton County, including $1 million the sheriff's office has saved this year.

 

"I won't be surprised if (the cost to provide the sheriff's services) it is a million-dollar number," Portune said.

 

Portune's concern is having sheriff's deputies patrolling just specific areas like Over-the-Rhine, a move he fears could push crime elsewhere.

 

"I expect (Leis') proposal to deal not only with the Brewery District but hot spots and high-crime areas throughout the city of Cincinnati," Portune said.

 

SHERIFF'S PATROLS

Hamilton County Sheriff's Office patrols 10 townships and one village:

 

* North Bend

* Anderson Township

* Colerain Township

* Columbia Township

* Crosby Township

* Green Township

* Harrison Township

* Miami Township

* Sycamore Township

* Symmes Township

* Whitewater Township

 

Source: Hamilton County sheriff

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051004/NEWS01/510040365

Downtown Chase Nabs Man Wielding Automatic Weapon

 

 

Reported by: 9News

Web produced by: Neil Relyea

Photographed by: 9News

10/3/2005 10:45:01 PM

A man wielding an automatic assault weapon led police on a tense chase through downtown streets Monday night.

 

Cincinnati officers say they saw the man pointing the assault weapon at people near Green and Race streets. IN OTR

 

When they tried to stop him he jumped in a car and drove off.

 

Police say he then started throwing drugs and weapons out of the car.

 

Police threw stop sticks on Fourth Street near Vine which finally stopped him.

 

Police say they also recovered several rounds of ammunition in the suspect's car.

 

 

 

re: Sheriff patrols sought in OTR

 

Wasn't the idea of having suburbanite cops in OTR one of the problems cited back in the Tim Thomas shooting ?

OTOH, this is the area of OTR I "hang out" in. I rarely see cops.

 

Mark

I spoke with John about a week ago about bringing in the Sherrifs, he is trying to drum up as much support from the local communities as possible by attending every community meeting (and thats a lot of meetings).  we should get behind people like John and help him in this.  On Mulberry and the rest of the hill we have great patrols and great individual officers but my wife and I were originally going to rehab the Christian Moerline Office on Elm and while we were trying to put that deal together we had several scares. 

The Brewery District is desperatly trying to make some changes and this could be a major first step.  They have my support.

Jimmy,

 

Perhaps I read it wrong, did you say that most cities do not have their poorest communitie, and highest crime rates downtown?  Most that I have been to are in the inner cities, Detroit, Cincy, Orlando, Miami, Chicago etc.  When you say change the situation are you talking about changing the demographics downtown and if so how are you proposing we do that (and I am not saying it can't be done)

Perhaps I read it wrong, did you say that most cities do not have their poorest communitie, and highest crime rates downtown?  Most that I have been to are in the inner cities, Detroit, Cincy, Orlando, Miami, Chicago etc.  When you say change the situation are you talking about changing the demographics downtown and if so how are you proposing we do that (and I am not saying it can't be done)

 

You should probably clarify how you define "downtown" before this discussion goes any further.  Is it just the CBD, CBD and OTR, CBD/OTR/West End, etc.

 

Just a thought

 

 

You should probably clarify how you define "downtown" before this discussion goes any further.  Is it just the CBD, CBD and OTR, CBD/OTR/West End, etc.

 

Just a thought

 

no doubt...this gets too confusing even for us urbanists! I always say downtown=CBD thats all. If we say that OTR is downtown then that shooting the other night @ 13th and vine was downtown. People perceive all the basin as downtown...we need to change this perception.

[

You should probably clarify how you define "downtown" before this discussion goes any further.  Is it just the CBD, CBD and OTR, CBD/OTR/West End, etc.

 

Just a thought

 

no doubt...this gets too confusing even for us urbanists! I always say downtown=CBD thats all. If we say that OTR is downtown then that shooting the other night @ 13th and vine was downtown. Some people perceive all the basin and sometimes even the hillside as downtown...we need to change this perception.

 

There is no fence or hillside (or freeway or railway) between OTR and CBD and the West End.  Whatever happens here, severely affects the CBD, and vice-versa.  OTR has been a place where the city has kept its problems for decades, and the result is injury to the whole valley.    The other cities you mention may have the same problem we do, and thus suffer for it. I don't believe Chicago has such poverty and crime immediately adjacent to the loop though.   However, many thriving cities that I have visited do not have this situation: Boston, Montreal, Portland OR, Portland ME, not to mention european or thriving cities on other continents.  Its not just that we have slums.  Every city I have been too has them to varying degrees. But should your worst slum be on your doorstep?  Successful cities integrate the poor throughout the city (eg: Charlotte SC), not push them to one neighborhood.

 

The demographics ARE constantly changing.  For decades the change has been:  less people and poorer.  This didn't happen by accident.  For the demographics to change for the positive, as opposed to the negative, we should push for more ownership.  In OTR, because of the larger buildings this usually means condos.  I am for lots and lots of construction in OTR, especially rehab, but new construction is great too, and not just residential ..  commercial, even industrial, whatever.  I have nothing against rental or even subsidized apartments or social service agencies.  We have room for everyone.  Affordability is important to me also.  I don't know about you, but I don't want OTR to look like Mt. Adams, or Back Bay Boston.  I want diversity, excitement, grit and most of all, I want lots and lots of people. 

Cincinnati has tried to spread the poor out throughout the city and it has just brought down once fairly stable communities (Price Hill, Westwood...).  OTR needs greater law enforcement in order for the neighborhood to become packed with people and diverse.  And Chicago is not a good example to model living patterns off of.

I agree with both of you (except that part about Mt. Adams), and thanks for clarifying Jimmy.  Edale, are you for the Sherrifs patrolling OTR?

I was reading my son bedtime stories when I heard automatic gunfire last night. 

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2005/local/10/11/shootings_late_rev.html

 

http://joewessels.blogspot.com/2005/10/coming-home-not-so-easy.html

" around 9:30 p.m. in Over-the-Rhine, reports of what sounded like machine gun being fired near a local bar ended with dozens of people on the street wearing handcuffs. "

 

Then I go outside to see whats going on down the block and catch a guy in the act of breaking into a freinds car.  Unfortunately this is a typical night here.

 

I didn't mention crime in my post above, but it is a serious problem.   From my observation, the police have curtailed work in the neighborhood since 2001.  The only problem I have with the sherrif comming in is that I don't believe that lack of manpower is what is stopping the Cincinnati Police from patrolling more.

 

 

The sherrifs dept. has more resources than just manpower.  You are right though, frustration on the part of the CPD I believe is what is behind the lack of enforcement. 

Cincinnati has tried to spread the poor out throughout the city and it has just brought down once fairly stable communities (Price Hill, Westwood...).

 

That is a valid point.  The destruction of Laurel Homes & neighboring projects more than likely lead to this and now crime has increased in neighboring communities.  I would have put my money on intergrating the poor into neighboring communities rather than having them located in one area but now I have my doubts.  I still think it is better but then again I don't live in Price Hill or Westwood so it is easier to say this since it does effect me and I want to try and understand all sides. Maybe it is wrong for me to correlate the increased crime in neighboring communites with the destruction of several housing projects but the timelines match up well. 

I'm sure this has been discussed on other threads, but dumping all the poor in any one area will create problems.  The residents in Price Hill and Westwood must make sure they do not become a dumping ground.  Due to economic and political forces, there has never been, no is there likely to be much subsidized housing in the more expensive neighborhoods.

Michael Redmond;

I like Mt. Adams alot for what it is.  It is a little out of my price range, but has great amenities (parks, restaurants, views).  However, in the basin, we have alot more traffic, alot more commercial and mixed used.  We also have alot more racial and economic diversity.  Twenty years ago, there were alot more industrial uses in OTR, and I am saddened to see them leave.  Does Mt. Adams have a hardware store?  Does Clifton?  No, and ours is suffering.  I liked the fact that they made potato chips, pickles and beer a few blocks away.  (they still make the beer and pickles), and that your could walk to get HVAC repair parts or paint.

I'm sure this has been discussed on other threads, but dumping all the poor in any one area will create problems.  The residents in Price Hill and Westwood must make sure they do not become a dumping ground.  Due to economic and political forces, there has never been, no is there likely to be much subsidized housing in the more expensive neighborhoods.

 

Dumping the poor?  How do you mean?  When the projects were torn down the former residents were given vouchers and with those vouchers they went looking for new places to live.  It appears a large portion of these residents moved into Price Hill & parts of Westwood because of affordable rent or whatever the reason. 

Poor choice of words by me.  When your neighborhood is know primarily for low rents, then you will attract people primarily looking for low rent.  OTR on the other hand was filled with project-based vouchers, in which the rent stayed with the unit instead of the tenant.  Portability is a good idea, but in practice has problems because only certain property owners in certain neighborhoods accept them.