Not disagreeing with you about Mt. Adams, I like it to (and it is getting out of my price range also).  Monte, you are right, low income goes to where there is low income inventory available, wherever that may be.  Many communities have begun beautification projects to avoid this very problem.  I even think this is one of the problems Northside is having, as they were getting off the ground and turning things around they still had enough low end inventory in their market that it in some ways stalled their progress.  This is just how the market works, it is not good or bad, but if one community cleans up and kicks out the crime, if they don't go to jail, they go next door.  It is each communities individual responsibility to make sure they are not the recipient of the problems.  I will not stop trying to improve my community or OTR or the West End because I feel sorry for those in Westwood and I know that is not what is being proposed but the individual community markets either attract or repel these problems.

Also, when I hear "dumping" steering comes to mind.  Unfortunately, this is exactly what has happened in the past, these people of lower incomes (good and bad) have been intentionally herded together.  Social engineering of our neighborhoods, especially urban, has been a failure.  People rich and poor need to independently go where they can find affordable housing.  Section 8 and vouchers has skewed that fundamental market force.

Just one question though, if a negative influence is introduced into a market, does the positive influence of the existing market have no effect in return?  I ask the question because this is an argument for increased home ownership among lower income.  If your surroundings are positive and you are vested in the home does that make a difference?  If yes then mixed income with home ownership in a Westwood or wherever is a viable solution.  If no, then we are back to laurel homes.

Mike, I wish it was that simple.  While in theory it makes perfect sense but the only time I have seen it work is when a new development comes along like City West.  Reason being because the people that invest in a community like City West are trying to make a difference in life and in that community.  They know it is a risk, they know they might encounter some shady folks but they go in on this investment with a positive attitude and a desire to make a different and well these developments offer nice tax incentives.  On the other hand you have old neighborhoods like Price Hill and you might have these people mixed within the neighborhood but more than likely you will come across people that see things (for all we know these things equate to color of someones skin) changing in their community.  Instead of hanging in there, these people are more than likely to move out and then the "flight" begins.  We have seen it time and time again in history.  One could say it is hidden racism at its best but when you mix it in with increased crime you see West Chester's population boom.

 

True, and City West was exactly what I was thinking of.  Anyone know of any duplication of this or is it just an anomaly? Is there a correlation between percent of owner occupancy rate and crime rate?  I am not saying rental is bad, however is the increased responsibility of ownership and the threat of loosing that ownership if non compliant to a communities rules and regulations enough to make a dent in crime rate? 

I was reading some blogs and I found this post interesting from Joe Wessels about living in OTR. I used to enjoy wandering around OTR on what I believe are the safest times, Sat and Sun afternoons, but I don't do that anymore.

 

http://joewessels.blogspot.com/2005/10/coming-home-not-so-easy.html

It definitely has the worst rep in the city (even though i would be far more concerned about walking through the west end or at people's corner)

 

I'm coming into this late in the game, but I did want to object to this comment.  I wouldn't drive up Vine Street at 11pm on a hot Saturday night.  I would only drive up Linn at the same time if I had to.  But I would (and do) drive McMillan or Gilbert any hour of the day or night, straight through Peeble's Corner, and not give it a second thought.  I don't think there's any comparison between the two.  There will sometimes be people hanging out along McMillan, but maybe due to a wider street, all one way, with ample sidewalks, I've never felt intimidated there.  But just the other night my wife and I went to a movie at Newport OTL, and needed to go to CVS in Clifton to refill a prescription - I took 471 to 71 and got off at Liberty, to Vine, then up the hill - the fastest route.  And on Vine, between Liberty and McMicken, there were crowds of bored people standing around, throwing shit across the street.  The whole west side of the street was drowning in litter.

 

It just takes one dumb-ass kid (and I was a dumb-ass kid, so I know how little it takes) to decide that a rock thrown at a car would be fun, to make the fastest route at best an expensive pain in the ass, and at worst an incident - there have been a couple stories of "mini-riots" on Vine that didn't get much play in the media, where groups of kids started throwing beer bottles at cars, and it escalated when the cops got there.

 

I LOVE this city - I want nothing but wonderful things for everyone who lives here, to preserve the architecture and the culture of all the communities.  But if it's preserving the city vs. the safety of my wife, I'm serving the city up a big steaming plate of Fuck You Fondu.  Ain't nothing worth that.  The asshole that assaulted Mary Poole did far more than just assault a person - he stole a city from her.  That's unforgiveable.

 

Is OTR as bad as they say?  I'd say no (depending on who "they" is and what it is they're saying) - you can drive there, walk there, shop there, live there, and be fine most of the time.  But the more important question is, "is it bad enough to fuck things up for the whole city?"  And the answer is, without a doubt, yes.

 

"is it bad enough to fuck things up for the whole city?"  And the answer is, without a doubt, yes.

 

Amen.

 

 

Unfortunatly that stretch of Vine is within walking distance of my house.  OTR is unique in that one could walk over one street and be in a whole other world.  Some parts are worse than they say (Vine and Republic) but other parts I do not believe get the wide spread credit it deserves for the progress they have made and continue to make.  Next time you need to go to that CVS go up Sycamore and I believe you will feel a lot better.

The asshole that assaulted Mary Poole did far more than just assault a person - he stole a city from her.  That's unforgiveable.

 

That's the best line I've read in weeks.

RiverViewer, in the future when you exit at Liberty, turn right on Sycamore and take that route up to Clifton. A little less direct, but a lot more peaceful.

^I'd considered that, or getting off at Reading (haven't been that way in a while), but had one of those "fuck that, this is a public goddamn street" moments...normally Sunday morning is my exploration time - I play organ and sub at assorted churches now and then, and will often go exploring after the service - 11am on a Sunday is normally a good time for getting lost and seeing what's out there.  But yeah, 5pm on a Sunday afternoon is a completely different scene...

Leis targets Over-the-Rhine

Sheriff offers to help patrol hot spot in city

 

By Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writer

 

Hamilton County Sheriff Simon L. Leis Jr. has proposed using some of his deputies to help Cincinnati police patrol Over-the-Rhine.

 

"Fantastic. If Simon Leis is going to do it, he's not coming down to kid around. He's going to get it done," businessman John Donaldson said.

 

Donaldson and others affiliated with a group that aims to redevelop a portion of Over-the-Rhine had met with Leis about getting an additional police presence into the historic but crime-ridden neighborhood on the edge of downtown.

 

The sheriff's office, with 185 patrol officers, traditionally has provided patrols only in one village and 10 townships. The sheriff also is responsible for operating the county's jails.

 

"More officers making arrests and helping make the neighborhood safer is a good thing," said Robert Pickford, president of the Corporation at Findlay Market.

 

Commissioner Todd Portune met Friday with Leis about deputies patrolling Over-the-Rhine.

 

"This is an important step that the county can take to dramatically improve and enhance public safety in Hamilton County," Portune said.

 

Monday, Leis sent all three county commissioners a proposal about the patrols:

 

Two eight-hour shifts, seven days a week, with three two-deputy patrol cars.

 

The Regional Narcotics Unit - an undercover group of sheriff's deputies and Cincinnati police - will focus on the area to develop intelligence.

 

19 deputies and equipment for one year will cost an additional $1.5 million.

 

Because Leis has saved about $1 million from his budget this year, the commissioners would have to pay about an extra $500,000 for the project, something all three said Monday they were considering.

 

Commissioners Pat DeWine and Phil Heimlich like the idea.

 

"It's something that, if we can find the money, I'd like to do," DeWine said. "The No. 1 issue is crime and safety, and (this could) make safer one of the most dangerous areas of the city."

 

Heimlich said, "I think Si would do an excellent job of keeping the situation safe there."

 

Leis said Over-the-Rhine is not safe.

 

"It is well-known that crime is out of control here: shootings, robberies and open drug transactions," Leis noted in his proposal to commissioners.

 

Cincinnati Police Chief Tom Streicher couldn't be reached Monday for reaction.

 

"He and the sheriff have talked in general terms. They have talked about the possibilities," Leis spokesman Steve Barnett said.

 

While Over-the-Rhine has been violent for decades, the most serious crimes have declined there so far this year. The neighborhood led the city in killings in 2004, with 16. That number so far this year is seven.

 

Robberies also are on the decline - 257 were reported through September this year, compared with 390 for all of 2004. Police are counting a significant decline so far in burglaries, too - 191 through September this year, compared with 342 for all of last year.

 

Assistant Police Chief James Whalen, who was District 1 commander until his promotion last month, attributed the decline in Over-the-Rhine crime in part to the extra patrols afforded by City Council's approval of $1.2 million extra for officers on walking beats and more anti-drug enforcement.

 

Crime - especially violent and gun-related ones - doesn't observe political or governmental jurisdictions, Portune noted

 

"They're bigger than any single police department to handle," Portune said.

 

Business owner Michael Sweeney agreed.

 

The owner of Comey & Shepherd Realtor at Main and Liberty streets said Cincinnati police are doing a good job, but "there's just not enough of them."

 

The result is open-air drug deals, overt prostitution and incessant panhandling.

 

"There's a real energy down here of people who want to help make the neighborhood turn around," Sweeney said.

 

"However, the crime is making it very difficult in our daily lives

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051025/NEWS01/510250363

More patrols in OTR can be a good thing, if the deputies are properly trained in both urban policing techniques and community relations (as the Cincinnati Police officers are).

why doesn't the Cincinnati Police shift people assigned to work in the nicer areas of town to OTR and let the sheriff patrol the nicer areas so it would be less of a change?

I think they should assign ex-cons to the neighborhood who know the turf. 

This is an email that John Donaldson is trying to distribute to get support for this idea.

 

 

We need your support on the latest brewery District led initiative to rid OTR of Crime.

 

HELP US Get It Done Before Day 1. Dont wait for politicians to fix it we have an opportunity now to seize the moment.

 

Recently the OTR Brewery District took charge and met with Todd Portune and Si Leis to request to have the Sheriff to assist Cincinnati Police in patrolling OTR. We believe that we have a once an a lifetime opportunity to take back OTR and we need your support to make this happen. We were told that Chief Streicher and Si Leis have already met and discussed the idea. Si Leis has laid out a budget of 1.5 million dollars for a pilot program that will support 19 officers for 1 year to patrol OTR. Si Leis is so confident that this will work that he is using 1 million dollars of his own budget and is only asking the County to chip in 500K.

 

We met with Si Leis, he is very inspirational and confident about being able to help us in OTR. We are convinced that if we can bring his energy here we will see a safer OTR. In addition I am convinced that there are enough developers ready and watching the situation to jump into OTR swiftly to redevelop. We only need help cleaning it up, developing the properties will ensure it the crime doesn't come back next year.

 

We cannot make this happen without your support. Please send an email to the following email addresses explaining that you are an OTR business owner, resident or just come here for entertainment. Be clear that you want to reclaim our neighborhood.

 

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected] , [email protected]

 

We need to encourage Pat Dewine and Phil Heimlich that this is an important project for the county to support. They had indicated their support but now we need the small financial investment and commitment to back that up.

 

Some folks have expressed concern over conflicts that may arise between Cincinnati Police and County police. I have spoken with two Cincinnati beat cops and they encouraged me to continue pushing for this. They told me they will use all the help they can get. In addition several council members have contacted me to lend their support as well as Charlie Luken. This is a good idea, it can change OTR for the better, we pay county taxes we are entitled to County protection. Lets use the resources that we have to make our neighborhood safe.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051004/NEWS01/510040365/1077

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051025/NEWS01/510250363/1077/NEWS01

80% of 983 people that voted in the on line pole below believe this is the right thing to do

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051025/NEWS01/310250001/1077/NEWS01

 

We appreciate your support for safer OTR

Thanks for that, Michael!

 

I will be sure to send out a few emails!

Here are a couple of updates on the sheriff patrols.  It was expected that the CPD chief would see the idea as an affront and a statement about the effectiveness of his officers.  From the 10/26/05 Enquirer:

 

 

Police chief questions Leis proposal

By Jane Prendergast

Enquirer staff writer

 

Cincinnati's police chief isn't flatly opposed to having sheriff's deputies help patrol in the city, but he says there are a lot of questions - primarily whether county deputies would have to follow rules set by the U.S. Department of Justice and collaborative agreements.

 

Those agreements, overseen by a federal judge, govern how Cincinnati officers use, among other things, their Tasers and cruiser cameras. Hamilton County Sheriff's deputies have neither.

 

City officials also want to know how differences in training, supervision and dispatching would be bridged between the two agencies. Officers and deputies go to different police academies, learn different procedures, and are dispatched by separate communications centers.

 

And if both a deputy and an officer would be dispatched to the same crime scene, which agency's supervisors would be responsible?

 

"There are so many different considerations,'' Chief Tom Streicher said.

 

Sheriff Simon L. Leis Jr. made a proposal to commissioners Monday to help patrol the Over-the-Rhine, which he said would cost the county $500,000.

 

Leis said he was responding to requests for help from Over-the-Rhine business owners and Commissioner Todd Portune.

 

Streicher said he and Leis talked about where anyone arrested by the additional officers would be housed with a jail that's often full.

 

"That's the biggest question,'' Streicher said. "We can't keep people locked up now.''

 

Both mayoral candidates said they would consider the county offer of help. State Sen. Mark Mallory said he wondered why City Council hasn't already done so.

 

His opponent, Councilman David Pepper, is chairman of the Law & Public Safety Committee. Pepper said he wasn't opposed to the plan.

 

But he said the issue should ultimately be left up to the chief.

 

Sgt. Harry Roberts, president of the Fraternal Order of Police union, said Leis' deputies also wouldn't fall under the guidelines of the new Citizen Complaint Authority, which was created after the 2001 riots as a way to improve police/community relations.

 

"Once again, the politicians are interfering where they don't belong,'' he said.

 

E-mail [email protected].

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051026/NEWS01/510260405/1056/rss02

---

And the commissioners, who always get involved when money is involved...from the 10/27/05 Enquirer:

 

 

County debates cost of patrols

How to pay for deputies in OTR?

By Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writer

 

All three Hamilton County commissioners believe having Hamilton County sheriff's deputies patrolling Cincinnati's Over-the- Rhine is a great idea - but two wonder if they can afford it.

 

Commissioner Todd Portune worked with Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. to promote the idea of having deputies patrol the neighborhood just north of downtown that is home to some of the city's most violent crime - crime viewed as an impediment to future development there.

 

Portune presented a resolution Wednesday calling for the commissioners to provide $500,000 of the $1.5 million cost to implement the program - the rest comes from money the sheriff already has saved in this year's budget - but it wasn't acted upon.

 

Commissioners Phil Heimlich and Pat DeWine, while supporting the idea, insist the money has to be identified in the budget.

 

"The key is, if you are going to propose money to spend, find something to cut," Heimlich said.

 

While Hamilton County is spending less than budgeted, assistant administrator Eric Stuckey said it's also earning less than expected. That means there's not much money to spend, maybe not enough to pay $500,000 for the deputies to patrol Over-the-Rhine.

 

While costly, DeWine admits, the idea is a good one. "The reality is that we can't fund everything. It's going to be a tough budget year," he said. "If this community doesn't get control of crime, particularly in Over-the-Rhine ... we're not going to be able to do many things."

 

It is vital, Portune added, that all the investments Hamilton County has made in Over-the-Rhine - including Memorial Hall, the new art academy and the county buildings, as well as workers and customers who visit them - be protected.

 

"Those activities are not going to take root and take hold and people are not going to support them ... if people don't think they're safe," Portune said.

 

E-mail [email protected]

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051027/NEWS01/510270370/1056/rss02

 

 

Here is an article from City Beat about efforts to improve the neighborhood:

 

http://www.citybeat.com/2005-10-26/news.shtml

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Question for everyone about OTR safety, I have been asked to write a safe and clean grant for Mulberry/McMicken area.  In the past couple of years we have been very focused on Mulberry St. however this year I would like to help our neighbors to the south also (they need it) any suggestions.  One of the things I am playing around with is possibly contracting Block by Block for clean up or even Impact OTR.  We can get between 10-30 thousand for this grant.

 

Here is an article from City Beat about efforts to improve the neighborhood:

 

http://www.citybeat.com/2005-10-26/news.shtml

 

 

I know you posted the link, but I really thought the article would get better exposure if I posted it like this. I'm surprised Citybeat posted something positive.

 

 

On a bus tour of Over-the-Rhine developments

 

By Stephanie Dunlap

 

Photo By Matt Borgerding

 

 

The city's most troubled neighborhood showcased good news for the community development tour.

As usual, clowns have the right idea: Pile 'em all in a small vehicle and rattle around town for a few hours.

 

A charter bus, 50 people and a few hours circling through Over-the-Rhine seemed a quick way to boost the awareness and maybe the cooperation of the many organizations trying to revitalize affordable and market-rate housing while preserving the neighborhood's historic architecture.

 

Patricia Garry, executive director of the Community Development Corporations Association of Greater Cincinnati, organized and led this year's annual Community Development Bus Tour, which kicked off just after noon on Oct. 22 at 12th and Jackson streets.

 

Changing 'the spooky side'

When the bus pulled up to Findlay Market, Bob Pickford boarded to address the developers, consultants, bankers and investors, city officials and many others finishing cookies from their box lunches.

 

The market's revitalization began in 1995, according to Pickford, president of the Corporation for Findlay Market, a nonprofit management company. The Farmers Market opened in 1999, and the renovation of the Market House wrapped up last year.

 

But it quickly became clear that the market itself couldn't ignore all the development issues around it, Pickford said.

 

"We call the south side of the market the 'spooky' side of the market," he said.

 

That's why the Corporation for Findlay Market recently joined with the University of Cincinnati, the Uptown Consortium and the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) to ask the city to grant it "preferred developer status" for the market district.

 

The properties abandoned by failed developers Scheer & Scheer, the former Globe Furniture building and an old Deveroes store top Pickford's list of buildings that are critical to the market's future.

 

Pickford envisions a thriving market district of 60 to 100 small businesses that together can compete with big box stores. He hopes to lure a bakery and a wine shop, and there's some talk of a Sam Adams watering hole.

 

Paula's Café opened for lunch a month ago, and a housewares shop opens next April. The market area went WiFi thanks to Project Lily Pad (see All the News That Fits, issue of June 22-28).

 

But as it stands, the market is only at 64 percent capacity and there's still resistance to the Sunday business hours implemented not long ago.

 

"Businesses are not lining up and banging on the door to come down to Over-the-Rhine at this point," Pickford said.

 

There was no mention of the Rev. Damon Lynch III's proposal for an African corridor in the Findlay Market area.

 

The bus then stopped briefly at the City Lofts on Dunlap Street, where developer Greg Badger explained that four of the six units in the converted furniture manufacturing building at 1908 Dunlap have already sold.

 

Some buyers were lured by the European lifestyle of walking to Findlay Market to pick out the night's dinner, while others must be banking on the area's imminent renaissance. Badger said one new condo owner hopes to turn a profit in two years.

 

City Lofts is the first market-rate condominium project north of Liberty Street, though a 98-condo project is in the works for the old Christian Moerlein brewery building, according to Badger.

 

Red magic and beer bottles

 

The tour then rolled on to St. Anthony Village, a cluster of buildings inside Republic, Liberty, Race and Pleasant streets that are united by a fenced-in courtyard and a renters equity program that gives low-income tenants a stake in their housing.

 

By taking care of their apartments and pitching in for communal maintenance, low-income renters can earn $5,000 after five years and up to $10,000 in equity by their 10th year of residency (see All the News That Fits, issue of July 20-26).

 

Margie Spinney, director of Cornerstone Community Loan Fund and founder of the renters equity program, interpreted for the tourists.

 

"Think about a market for new housing that's kind of in-between renting and owning," she said. "We think this is the needed interim step. These people are a stable, working people."

 

Renters equity has been such a hit that the Over-the-Rhine Housing Network (OTRHN) is implementing the program in its new six-building Community Views project. Though the 12 units aren't even finished yet, they're all spoken for, while other hopeful renters wait on a list.

 

Mary Burke, OTRHN's director, led a tour through the apartments next to Tucker's Restaurant at 1639 Vine St. A red-and-white checked stairway opened onto an airy apartment with a deep red linoleum floor, dark wood cabinets and a black-topped kitchen island.

 

"The architects didn't want it to look like affordable housing, and we didn't either," Burke said.

 

"It's amazing what a little color will do," said Marge Hammelrath, executive director of the Over-the-Rhine Foundation.

 

Further on, the busload crowded into the new Venice Pizza joint. When the Power Inspires Progress work training program and the restaurant it ran was forced from its McMicken Avenue location, they lucked out with a spot at 1301 Vine St.

 

UC and Miami University students pitched in to design the new Venice Pizza space, which features painstakingly artful tile floors, wooden walls and cabinets and a sign fashioned from backlit aluminum pop cans and clear beer bottles. Venice Pizza is slated to open by Christmas.

 

Andy Hutzel, director of ReStoc, told the group the agency is shifting focus from single resident occupancy supportive housing for formerly homeless men and women to housing for low-income families. ReStoc's pending merger with OTRHN will boost both organizations' staff capacity, resources and impact. ReStoc has also been working with 3CDC.

 

Every presenter seemed committed to blurring the lines between affordable and market-rate housing, especially aesthetic divisions. Bobby Maly of Model Group's property development arm said the massive development and property management company takes pride in giving its affordable housing the same finishing touches as its market-rate apartments, such as ceramic tile and teak hardwood floors.

 

By this point in the tour a laid-back, jovial Stephen Leeper, president of 3CDC, had joined up. He said 3CDC is working with several small entrepreneurial developers to rehab about a dozen buildings around Vine and 12th streets, at a total cost of $13.5 million to $15 million.

 

Each redeveloped building will feature ground-floor commercial space and condos ranging from $80,000 to $200,000. Of the 60 housing units, about 10 will be rental, some possibly to space-crunched Art Academy students. Leeper hopes to start construction in January 2006 and finish within the year.

 

The tour traipsed through a decrepit building next to the former Glossinger's carryout on 12th Street. A massive staircase curves up to a skylight that once shepherded daylight through a clean pane in the floor onto the storefront below.

 

"These buildings tell the story," Leeper said. "We're gonna lose them if we don't watch out."

 

The tour ended at the Art Academy, where President Greg Smith introduced the building while the community development tourists munched on hors d'oeuvres fittingly served up by Jeremy and Collette Thompson, who recently bought and reopened Kaldi's Coffeehouse. ©

 

From the 11/3/05 Enquirer:

 

 

Leis says deputies won't patrol with police in Over-the-Rhine

By Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writer

 

Hamilton County Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. won't allow his deputies to jointly patrol Over-the-Rhine with Cincinnati police because it could subject them to policies created when racial-profiling lawsuits were settled.

 

But deputies could still patrol the area without Cincinnati police.

 

"The topic is still open. We still could end up down there," sheriff's spokesman Steve Barnett said Wednesday.

 

Leis told Cincinnati Police Chief Tom Streicher in a letter dated Monday that he won't allow his deputies to patrol the area as part of a formal task force with Cincinnati police.

 

Doing that, Leis said, could mean his deputies would be subject to the so-called Collaborative Agreement that grew out of the settlement of a racial-profiling lawsuit against the Cincinnati police and a separate U.S. Justice Department review.

 

That agreement requires every Cincinnati police traffic stop to be recorded, additional training for officers and supervisors, different hiring and promotional policies and use-of-force policies.

 

"It would be both unwise and unreasonable to have this office adopt these and many other Collaborative Agreement requirements when this office was neither involved in the events upon which their need was established, nor part of the negotiations which defined them," Leis wrote Streicher.

 

Commissioner Phil Heimlich supported Leis' decision, insisting deputies shouldn't have to work under the collaborative agreement that he said "has tied the hands of police officers."

 

"Si is completely correct that the collaborative agreement has done more to hurt law enforcement than anything in a number of years," Heimlich said.

 

"If these deputies are going to be effective, they can't have their hands tied with red tape," Heimlich said.

 

Last week, Hamilton County's commissioners were looking for an additional $500,000 to pay for the patrols.

 

"We were trying to find a way to do it," interim County Administrator Eric Stuckey said Wednesday. "It was a high priority to try to find a way to do it."

 

Commissioner Todd Portune wondered how Leis' proposal to separately provide 19 deputies to patrol and investigate crimes in Over-the-Rhine evolved into an idea for a joint task force.

 

"The sheriff made a very distinct proposal that speaks for itself," Portune said. "I don't know what this task force is."

 

Leis' letter notes he and Streicher agreed a joint task force of police and sheriff's deputies "would be a most efficient use of our manpower and resources."

 

Through a spokesman, Leis declined comment Wednesday. Streicher did not return calls seeking comment.

 

One business owner who approached Leis for help said he understood the sheriff's decision.

 

"The sheriff had nothing to do with previous incidents and should not be held accountable,'' said John Donaldson. "We knew this effort would have its challenges. Who would have thought it would be stopped by the CollaboraTive Agreement?"

 

Cincinnati Police Sgt. Harry Roberts, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Queen City Lodge No. 69, believes there is nothing wrong with getting more help from deputies, "but it's more complicated than that" because of the CollabOrative Agreement.

 

Crime is down "dramatically" in Over-the-Rhine, Roberts said, but business owners insist the number of violent crimes is still too high.

 

Over-the-Rhine led Cincinnati in killings in 2004 with 16. This year, there were seven as of Oct. 25. Robberies and burglaries are on pace to be lower than last year.

 

"If we can find the money and if we can make a difference in making Over-the-Rhine safe, we should," Heimlich said.

 

E-mail [email protected]

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051103/NEWS01/511030351/1056/rss02

 

"Cincinnati police officers are very upset about any police agency patrolling anywhere in the city of Cincinnati because it infers they're not doing their job," said Sgt. Harry Roberts, head of the Fraternal Order of Police, Queen City Lodge No. 69.

 

"The test of police police efficiency, is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visibile evidence of police action dealing with them."  from principles of law enforcement, Sir Robt. Peel 1829

It is " the duty of the police department to especially preserve the public peace, ...remove all nuisances in the public streets and restrain all unlawful and disorderly conduct."

The essential and primary purpose of the police is to keep public spaces orderly and safe for all citizens.  This is NOT being achieved currently in the Brewery District and many other areas of the City.  The citizens are crying for help, and the FOP is concerned about their turf.

Is West Chester Township as bad as they say?

^Absolutely...though in a different way...

Here is a unintelligent quote from a "Cincy Music" forumer named Stratobiker:

 

I was active with the Air National Guard when the riots happened in OTR/downtown. Many friends asked if I was going to be deployed... Here's my thoughts on how we could have addressed the situation:

 

A couple of F-16s flying 150 ft off the deck with augmentors lit up Vine St. would have sent everyone scattering like roaches, all without a shot fired.

 

I would have LOVED to have seen that.

 

http://boards.cincymusic.com/index.php?showtopic=23420&st=300

^ Yeah, that's a bright guy right there!

 

Thanks for reminding why I haven't gone back to those boards.

Who has the latest word on sheriff patrols in OTR, I had John Donaldson call me earlier today saying it just went to federal court (sheriffs wanting out of collaborative agreement) anyone know anything about a case?

^What's odd is some Ohio Highway Patrol guys have been doing foot patrols in Cincinnati.  I heard a trooper based out of Clermont County talk last weekend talking about how they patrol OTR, doing "Alley Sweeps" at 2am.  You couldn't pay me to do that.  This guy claims to have been there for the riot in 2001 and the Lucasville prison riot, but he got some facts wrong (specifically he said that an officer he was with was struck by a bullet in his belt buckle a few months prior to the riot -- this actually happened during the riots) so he might have been making some of this up.  I don't trust virtually any police officer anywhere, I have been witness to too much of their nonsense.   

 

 

>Thanks for reminding why I haven't gone back to those boards.

 

I had not seen that site before, what a cesspool.  You can't have a healthy local music scene if everyone's pissed off at each other.  Whenever I'm in Cincinnati, I go to any local music event with extremely low expectations for the group and the assembled crowd. 

The unfortunate thing is, a lot of people hold attitudes about OTR similar to those expressed on the cincymusic boards.  I regularly have people parroting the lamest stereotypes in my presence, even after they've been told that I've lived here for 1 1/2 years and counting!!  Outsiders forget that the residents and transients in OTR are people, not wild animals. Lately, I've been doing my incidental grocery shopping at Vine St. Kroger, a place that outsiders have only heard of in whatever passes for urban lore out there in the burbs.  Last week, on  a nice sunny day I walked home from UC down Clifton to McMicken.  Every weekday during the school year, I use bus stops at Vine and Liberty and 14th and Walnut.  And guess what? Nobody ever bothers me, except for the occasional quarter.  Maybe I'm just lucky, but in my opinion most parts of OTR are safe if you mind your own business, at least during the day.

Who has the latest word on sheriff patrols in OTR, I had John Donaldson call me earlier today saying it just went to federal court (sheriffs wanting out of collaborative agreement) anyone know anything about a case?

 

What I could find on it:

 

Court will hear Over-the-Rhine patrol proposal

Associated Press

 

CINCINNATI - Hamilton County Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. is asking a federal judge to clear the way for his deputies to patrol a high-crime Cincinnati neighborhood without adhering to police department procedures.

 

Leis seeks a judgment that would allow deputies to patrol the Over-the-Rhine neighborhood without complying with procedures that went into effect with the settlement of a racial-profiling lawsuit against Cincinnati police.

 

The lawsuit followed race riots in 2001.

 

The city police officer's union has been critical of some of those procedures, which include completing reports on every traffic stop. It says the reports are pointless and time-consuming.

 

County Commissioner Todd Portune, who collaborated with Leis and prosecutors in seeking the judgment, said he believes the sheriff's patrols would have a marked impact on crime in the poor neighborhood just north of downtown.

 

Leis has said his office shouldn't have to adopt those policies because it wasn't involved in the events that led to them or the negotiations that created them.

 

There appeared to be a consensus at Monday's county commission meeting that if Leis wins a court ruling, he would be allowed to spend about $1 million his office didn't use this year and the county would kick in the other $500,000 needed to do the patrols with 19 deputies

The unfortunate thing is, a lot of people hold attitudes about OTR similar to those expressed on the cincymusic boards.  I regularly have people parroting the lamest stereotypes in my presence, even after they've been told that I've lived here for 1 1/2 years and counting!!  Outsiders forget that the residents and transients in OTR are people, not wild animals. Lately, I've been doing my incidental grocery shopping at Vine St. Kroger, a place that outsiders have only heard of in whatever passes for urban lore out there in the burbs.  Last week, on  a nice sunny day I walked home from UC down Clifton to McMicken.  Every weekday during the school year, I use bus stops at Vine and Liberty and 14th and Walnut.  And guess what? Nobody ever bothers me, except for the occasional quarter.  Maybe I'm just lucky, but in my opinion most parts of OTR are safe if you mind your own business, at least during the day.

 

Kendall, I envy your lifestyle.  Some of us talk the talk but you are actually doing it and with positive experiences.  It is enlightening to read experiences like your post above.  I use your neighbor that you introduced me to that used to live in Mason as a role model.  One day I hope to live in the city.  In the mean time I try to do my part as a suburbanite to promote and expose the city in a positive light through photography.  It was after all the reason why I moved to the Cincinnati Metro to begin with.  Keep the posts of your experiences coming, experiences like your own are too often lost in the mix of negatively that naive idiots in the suburbs spread. 

I also live here,  shop at the Kroger's on Vine or Findlay mkt and occassionally take the bus to Clifton.  In addition, I also have small children, and we make extensive use of the public parks and public pools, including those in OTR.  There are hardships and dangers in OTR, but we are dedicated enough to the city to hang tough, and we don't do anything stupid, like walk north of Liberty or on Vine Street late at night.

I love it, but as stated earlier in this thread, the crime/poverty problem is a severe hinderance to further investment and construction.  My feeling is that the neighborhood reached bottom a few years ago.  However, the upswing will be measured in decades, not years.

Kendall and jimmy, I also shop at the vine st kroger and have  walked and driven thru OTR everyday for the last couple of years and have never had a problem. Actually living downtown on fourth st was worse. I got panhandled 2-4 times a week sometimes more and had my car broken into a few times. In OTR it is very rare for me to get panhandled.  Granted I don't walk at 14th and walnut, 13th and republic 15th and race or green st at night but during daylight hours walking OTR doesn't even phase me. On a bad note though on another thread I said I couldn't remember the last time I heard gunshots, well two nights in a row around 2-2:30 am I heard gunshots being exchanged. Dang thugs ! Maybe they are celebrating the holiday season??? shooting into the air..Oh well,  See you guys at findlay mkt and krogers :-D  Monte thanks for being so positive about downtown and surrounding areas. We will keep up the work and when your time comes to move down here we will welcome you!  I have never heard anyone in the burbs be so pro-Cincinnati before.

I had one car break in, but other than that...  I'm still alive in the downtown area 'Nati.  When I lived in OTR, no problems there either.  Just be smart.

All- new to UrbanOhio, but a life time Cincy resident and 'urbanist' at heart.  I am a downtown worker, 3 years, and frequently walk around OTR at lunch, recently trying to climb all of the steps around OTR, there are many.  Anyway, I have never been approached in any way except for an occasional coin.  I am friends with an older retired gentleman with a modest apt. on Court St.  He has lived downtown over 30 years and walks regularly to the Vine St. Kroger, and in all of that time has also never been bothered.

 

I am not naive.  I do not put myself into tight situations and am focused on the architecture, keeping to myself. I also believe, like my mother said, that "nothing good happens after midnight".  I know some OTR residents are not saints, but I think they know I'm not interested in them, they are not interested in me.  Frankly, it's some of those transient type of old bearded guys muttering to themselves that I keep an eye on.

 

Most of my dedicated suburbanite family and friends are mortally afraid of downtown, any place at any time.  It is frustrating.

 

I am enjoying discovering these threads and hope to contribute where I can.

I accidentally left my car unlocked yesterday for an hour on 12th Street, and it was ransacked when I came back.  I don't keep anything valuble in there, so no big deal, but it is amazing how fast someone will grab your stuff here.  I once leaned my (junky) bike on a building and went inside for 15,seconds (no exagerration) , and it was gone when I came back out.  It makes me wonder how many of the people I say high to everyday would steal from me if they could.

As I was coming off the bus one morning at Court & Walnut I had some woman offer to sell me some little bike for $5.00.  I wonder if that was yours ;)  But it is too bad for us that even these low levels of trust cannot be assumed.  I am not so sure either or both of these wouldn't happen in lots of places, but it certainly is a pain, doesn't help the rep.  and your point is well taken.

From the 1/26/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Leis files lawsuit

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Hamilton County Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. has filed a lawsuit that could lead to his deputies patrolling the Cincinnati neighborhood of Over-the-Rhine.

 

The suit, filed late Monday in Hamilton County Common Pleas Court, asks a judge to determine if Sheriff’s deputies will be subject to the so-called Collaborative Agreement if they patrol Over-the-Rhine, a high-crime neighborhood immediately north of downtown Cincinnati.

 

That collaborative agreement requires each Cincinnati police traffic stop to be recorded, additional training for officers and supervisors, different hiring and promotional policies and use-of-force policies.

 

Leis, prompted by Over-the-Rhine business owners and residents, wanted to patrol Over-the-Rhine and began discussions last year to do so with Cincinnati Police Chief Thomas Streicher.

 

When Leis discovered his deputies would be subject to some of the same bureaucracy and restriction the collaborative agreement places on Cincinnati police, Leis refused to begin the patrols.

 

Now, he wants a judge to determine if his deputies would be subject to those same restrictions.

 

Cincinnati lawyers Alphonse Gerhardstein and Scott Greenwood – representing the American Civil Liberties Union that was part of the class-action suit which resulted in the creation of the collaborative Agreement, wrote Leis an October letter insisting his deputies would be subject to the agreement if they patrol within Cincinnati limits.

 

The union representing Cincinnati police also has said it doesn’t want deputies on their turf.

 

The case has been assigned to Judge Charles Kubicki Jr.

 

[email protected]

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060125/NEWS01/301250009

 

has anyone seen an article that expands on this?

"The union representing Cincinnati police also has said it doesn’t want deputies on their turf."

^Yeah, that's insane.

In the past three weeks or so, I've noticed a number of Sheriff patrol cars driving through OTR. I don't know if they were patrolling or just passing through, but I don't remember seeing as many before. I wonder if Leis is sending a few deputies in or if they're just driving through to see what they might be getting themselves into.

I have to, we saw three inching down Peete St about a week ago.  Other than that, we may just be paying more attention now, but I do see more now for whatever reason.

^ Michael Redmond, this article may answer the question you posted a couple of posts back:

 

 

Leis expands turf for patrols

Sheriff's move comes despite city objections

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Even as he asks a judge to allow deputies to patrol Cincinnati streets, Hamilton County Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. has already increased the area in Cincinnati where his deputies patrol - despite objections from city officials.

 

"The sheriff said he just expanded it for added protection for the (county) employees," sheriff's spokesman Steve Barnett said last week.

 

In addition to having deputies patrol the northeast quadrant of downtown where many county employees work, Leis now also is sending deputies to patrol the area between Central Parkway and Liberty Street bounded by Race and Vine streets in Over-the-Rhine.

 

"The sheriff said to expand the perimeter," Barnett said of the added patrols that started last Monday.

 

Deputies in two police cruisers patrol those areas in the mornings and evenings when workers are going to or from their jobs.

 

Ohio law gives sheriffs legal jurisdiction to patrol anywhere inside their county, but historically only Cincinnati police have patrolled Cincinnati streets.

 

Vine Street business owner Sharon Suder doesn't care what markings are on the outside of the police cars that patrol the area as long as they are patrolling.

 

"At this point it seems like more police is better. I don't think a bigger police presence is a problem," said Suder, owner of Suder's Art Store at 1309 Vine St.

 

But officials with the city's police union, city council, and the American Civil Liberties Union are wary of the new patrols.

 

Sheriff's deputies are not part of the collaborative agreement put in place after the Cincinnati riots in 2001.

 

That agreement requires each Cincinnati police traffic stop to be recorded; additional training for officers and supervisors; and stricter hiring, promotional and use-of-force policies.

 

"We feel that we're doing a real good job at this point. If another (police) agency is not part of that agreement, it could be a problem," said Thomas, a former Cincinnati police officer and now a council member who is chairman of the Law and Public Safety committee.

 

Thomas agreed that adding police "is a good thing," but wonders if deputies who largely patrol suburban areas have the necessary training and mindset to patrol "in an urban environment."

 

The Collaborative Agreement has caused Cincinnati police to receive specialized treatment deputies won't have, added Kathy Harrell, president of the Fraternal Order of Police, Queen City Lodge No. 69, the union that represents Cincinnati police.

 

She also is concerned that two separate police agencies patrolling the same area may have communication problems that could endanger officer safety, and won't know each other's undercover officers.

 

But she's also worried that an agency that isn't involved in that agreement could interfere - even inadvertently - with the successes the agreement has caused.

 

"As a union representative, I'm concerned about (harming) the relationships we have developed with the community," Harrell said.

 

Violent crime is down since it took effect in 2002, as are injuries to police and those they arrest.

 

"It is getting to a point where citizens can trust the police because of the accountability in place. (Leis) hasn't been through any of that," said the American Civil Liberties Union's Alphonse Gerhardstein.

 

 

ON PATROL AND IN COURT

 

The patrols come as Leis, through the Hamilton County Prosecutor's office, filed a lawsuit last Monday aiming to get a ruling from a judge making clear the collaborative agreement doesn't apply to sheriff's deputies - a step that could lead to even further expansion of patrols.

 

Whether it actually does apply is murky.

 

The ACLU believes the agreement should apply to any police department working in that area, and the ACLU's Gerhardstein argued the agreement is binding on the city of Cincinnati and its agents.

 

Leis argued it was signed by Cincinnati officials and had nothing to do with anyone in county government.

 

"That's why we filed the lawsuit," Barnett said.

 

The case is set for April 12 before Hamilton County Common Pleas Court Judge Charles Kubicki Jr.

 

Regardless of what happens in court, Suder said more police are needed, whether deputies or city police.

 

"They haven't been able to shut down the drug traffic on the streets. That's the reason for all of the crime," Suder said.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/NEWS01/601300337/1056/rss02

 

In addition to the possibility of Sheriffs patrol, the Mulberry/McMicken Sector of OTR is reaching out to both Main St. as well as the Brewery Dist to do a joint Citizens on Patrol.  We hope that we will be able to add an increased presence on Streets such as McMicken and E. Clifton, Main, and various side streets.  Along with this, we are attempting to implement an alert via email and/or phone to let residents within each sector know of problems such as car breakins or home breakins.  We are doing this in response to the information that we have received from the police that this is usually the work of only one or two people.  This system of broadcasting alerts will hopefully make people a little more cautious and pay closer attention to suspicious behaviour.  Information will be sent to each sector captain and hopefully disseminated from there through the sector's distribution list.

We have sunken to an all new low........YO, RIDE BY

 

Police say they are searching for a bike rider accused of a ride-by shooting in Over-the-Rhine. Witnesses say the cycle rider shot another man twice in the leg on west 15th Street near Pleasant. Police say they the gunman who pedaled away was wearing dark pants and a brown jacket. No official word on the victim's condition.

In addition to the possibility of Sheriffs patrol, the Mulberry/McMicken Sector of OTR is reaching out to both Main St. as well as the Brewery Dist to do a joint Citizens on Patrol.  We hope that we will be able to add an increased presence on Streets such as McMicken and E. Clifton, Main, and various side streets.  Along with this, we are attempting to implement an alert via email and/or phone to let residents within each sector know of problems such as car breakins or home breakins.  We are doing this in response to the information that we have received from the police that this is usually the work of only one or two people.  This system of broadcasting alerts will hopefully make people a little more cautious and pay closer attention to suspicious behaviour.  Information will be sent to each sector captain and hopefully disseminated from there through the sector's distribution list.

 

Michael, it's great and encouraging to see someone like yourself that is very involved with a neighborhood as great as OTR! Keep doing what you are doing!

Personally I find OTR to be pretty intimidating..a place I usually avoid.  However, while down in Cincinnati this past Sunday, I did finally visit Findly Market.

 

I have lived in SW Ohio for many years now and have frequently travelled to Cincinnati, but I never visited Findly Market as it was wedged in the middle of this big slum, and I just did not feel safe parking my car on Race or other side streets street and walking to the market...I've driven by it on Race a few times, though.

 

This time, though, there was a parking spot open right next to the market , so I parked and walked around the place.  Of course, I saw the additional off-street parking, so now I know I don't have to park on Race or elsewhere in the neighborhood and walk to get to the place. 

 

The market itself seemed more like the Western Market in Cleveland than the North Market in Columbus as it seemed to be a real market catering to local people...basic things like meats and produce and some baked goods.  There was some frou-frou stuff like this cafe/coffee-shop on the north side, but also some real old fashioned places, like this fish/seafood store, also on the north side (the place was closed but I peaked in).

 

I guess the place was a bit empty as it was Sunday afternoon in January, but looking at the online guide I do see there are a lot of vacanies, too, so I wonder if this place is hurting a bit?

 

Still, if it wasn't for the high density of Over The Rhine I doubt this place would have been able to survive, as I suspect its surviving a lot on local trade from the neighborhood as much as people coming in from elsewhere in town.

Out of curiosity, what is the most dangerous intersection of Over-the-Rhine?

Wow, statistically I could find out, but I would venture to guess Vine and ________ <insert any street here. Pick a number between 13 and Mulberry.

Well, by the numbers the two most violent reporting areas in OTR are on the western part of the neighborhood around Washington Park and going all the way up to Liberty, though the Findlay Market area and most of the Brewery District is pretty violent too.  I would probably put it somewhere around Republic St., but I'm not sure how far north or south along it I'd designate as the most dangerous intersection.

 

Maybe, if someone has some time on their hands, they'd like to get the police stats, download the Excel file, sort it, and come up with a definitive answer.