I feel in most places of the US this is rare, but I'm really getting fed up with the University of Michigan's bus system. 

 

U of M operates buses every 5-10 minutes between its North and Central campuses.  The system is also free for everyone.  You don't have to be a student or faculty.  Commuting is heavy between both areas, and unfortunately I'm the final stop before the bus cruises non stop through the Huron Valley from the tight urban Central Campus to the bland and mundane suburban North campus. 

 

As a result, when the bus doors open (if the bus actually stops), I see a huge wall of people, and only 5 inches of space from the yellow line.  Buses are mainly standing room with single seats along the walls.  Very similar to a subway.  Buses have double sliding doors and you may enter or exit from either front or back. 

 

I don't care that it appears there's no room, I aggressively shove the students near the edge, as people once did to me when I got on at earlier stops.  Nobody complains because we all understand we have places to be.  But I don't like it.  I dislike someone's arm pressed against my nose, as well as someone breathing on my neck.  What is more uncomfortable is when you really have to reach out to grab the stanchions, yet you always are close to losing your balance and knocking everyone over.  I don't complain about things much, and I'll continue to put up with it, but I'd like to think Ann Arbor is first world enough to fix the problem by building an EL train system (which has already been planned out by URS) or at the very least ground light rail to resolve this issue. 

 

In the meantime, I wouldn't entirely be against subsidizing parking and having heavily reduced fees from $1/hour to 25 cents/hour which would motivate me to drive instead of taking mass transit.  I know this sounds incredibly opposite of what I believe in, but there will always be thousands on central campus without cars because they have nowhere to park them.  As for the people who can drive, build a 3000 space garage and call it done.  It could be a temporarily solution until leaders get motivated and invest in a comprehensive mass transit system

 

Adding buses may help, but our streets are already heavily loaded with buses and they sometimes arrive 3 to a stop (still all very full)

The best solution is rail.  A non stop link between both campuses, where other stops (such as mine) can be serviced by bus, without people from the heart of campus.  Detroit is building a light rail system, but Ann Arbor's would serve at the very least TWICE as many as Detroit's in only 1/8 the distance!

 

Maybe a BRT system would work, but I would expect it to have dedicated lanes which would be really hard with AA's tight streets.

 

Please share if you have similar experiences.  BTW, I've experienced the NY subway during commute hours, stood still delayed, on many occasions.  That has yet to compare to my bus experiences.

 

Man just be glad it's ann Arbor; in Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc you not only have to stand and be crammed with people on the busy lines but you're crammed with people who reek of a combination of malt liquor, p!ss and mildew. Try to look at the bright side :)

 

Light rail sounds like a good idea though. In the mean time, could they temporarily reconfigure the routes - add some routes that go along parallel streets to alleviate congestion and add more buses? As progressive as Ann Arbor is, I could see them getting light rail soon - lots of campuses have 'em already. I'm surprised that so many universities don't have 'em yet. Hell WVU had a PRT in the 70s.

PRT looks space age to me.  Or maybe it's just because few of these exist and were built around that time.  But it makes me think of Epcot.

 

I was just browsing through some of U of M's future planning documents and some of them do mention future heavy circulation corridors so that new walkways, buildings, etc don't conflict with this plan.  They have to be thinking rail, or some detached form of mass transit that doesn't use roadways since the routes cut over hilly terrain and between buildings...not along roads.  I can only hope, but the whole thing is kept really quiet.

 

I wonder about articulated buses.  They seem to do okay on tight congested streets, but can you imagine students driving those with their federal work-study positions? LOL.  I see stop signs and light poles getting knocked over.

Every single day  :| 

 

Cleveland - GCRTA

Light Rail

The Blue Line is packed so, If possible, I avoid it in the mornings. Trying to board the Blue Line at Drexmore or Shaker Square is a mess. Very few people get off.  The Green Line is only slightly better as I have a small chance of getting a seat.  By the time we get to woodland people are standing in the stairwell.

 

Heavy Rail

At Univ. Circle the cars a pretty packed, and not many people get on at 105 or 79 streets.  Then when you get downtown, bam! 

 

 

MTA NYC Transit

The IND

At times when the door opens all you see is a wall of people. I usually have to let an A or D pass before I can board.  If I am able to board, I have to stand crammed in like a sardine.

 

The IRT

The 2 is no better than the A or D.  I usually let it pass.  It's coming from the Bronx so there are rarely any seats.  I wait for the 3.  It only makes 3 stops before 125, so 90% of the time I can get a seat until 72 street where I transfer to the 1 and repeat the process.  I have to let 2/3 trains go pass before I can get on.  If there are delays or I can't get on, I go upstairs and catch a sloooooooooow moving bus to 60 Street.

 

I still say, travel on Public Transportation is only going to get worse.

 

 

David...let's be careful about the characterizations of bus riders in Columbus and other cities.  I ride COTA in Columbus regularly and have encountered the occasional homeless person or drunk, but the majority of riders are working people, students and the elderly....and quite a few more "suits" than in the past (mostly younger professionals).

 

That said, we are seeing not only heavily-crowded buses here in Columbus, but frequently well into the so-called off-peak hours.  But if you look on the COTA After the Levy thread, you will see that COTA is adding both routes, as well as more buses and more frequent service.

 

I also agree with Haywardthat rail (light rail and streetcars would go a along way toward diversifying the choices and balancing the local systems.

I've stood on GCRTA (the Red Line and the 246) this week just about every day.  No big deal, I guess.

Just a small favor to ask of everyone who responds to this:  can you let us know in what city you ride and the local transit authority.  This is a good snapshot of what's happening around the Great Lakes region.

 

Thanks! :-D

When I'm in Chicago I regularly experience the sardine can experience on the L at rush hour.

I ride the 39 from willowick to downtown cleveland on the RTA for school(CSU) and work. If im leaving from work and catch any of the flyer/freeway busses from 4:30 to 5:30 im pretty much guarenteed to stand, but if im coming home from class and get either the 7:15 or 7:45 theres usually 1 person per seat with no one standing. 

In Cleveland on the RTA the 39 and 39F are standing room only every day for the portion of the route that's on the freeway, and have been that way for around a year. (Since the service cuts last December)

GCRTA - Red Line Westbound - SRO from Tower City about halfway or so to the airport (can't remember the exact stop where I was able to sit) last Friday in the mid-afternoon

Crowding on the 55 bus into Cleveland peaked over the summer, along with the gas prices.  Less people have ridden with each drop in temperature.  There's still some standing toward the end of the route, but not much.

I quit having to stand every day once I switched to the red line rapid instead of the 251/451 bus, where I stood every day, both coming and going.

    It's been a while, but I used to ride the 17 in Cincinnati between Northside and Uptown and I had to fight like a pig to get off the bus. At that level of congestion, the system breaks down because the buses waste so much time loading and unloading at stops.

 

 

    It's been a while, but I used to ride the 17 in Cincinnati between Northside and Uptown and I had to fight like a pig to get off the bus. At that level of congestion, the system breaks down because the buses waste so much time loading and unloading at stops.

 

 

One time I rode the 17 up the w. Clifton hill and the bus didn't make it up the hill. It was completely packed with people and half the people had to get off and got on the bus behind us so it could make it complete up the hill. It was the funniest thing I've ever seen.

 

 

If a bus runs every 10-15 minutes like the 17 does, I don't mind it being overcrowded. I'd rather have a bus that runs frequently and is overcrowded than one that runs every half hour to an hour and is dead.

In a word: YES.

 

I take the 1 train in to Manhattan every day, and thankfully I'm high up enough to be able to get a seat pretty much every day. But when I get into Manhattan, the train quickly fills up, and it's so tiring. People are getting bitchier by the day, too.

That's nothing.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axwMxUBL_ws

 

The train pushers are paid just to push people in. That's it.

    "I'd rather have a bus that runs frequently and is overcrowded than runs once every half hour to an hour and is dead."

 

    To each his own.

 

    Why settle for less? I would rather have a bus that runs frequently AND is not crowded.

 

    I can think of two ways to make this happen, both with beneficial consequences.

 

    1. Charge higher fares. This will turn people away from the bus, making it less crowded. If it's done correctly, the system will not lose money.

 

  2. Increase running speed. This could be done by eliminating some stops, modifying intersection design to allow buses to pass through without stopping, increasing maximum speed, or decreasing loading and unloading times. Faster running speed allows the same number of buses to make more round trips per day, effectively decreasing the headway time.

 

   

   

 

 

David...let's be careful about the characterizations of bus riders in Columbus and other cities.  I ride COTA in Columbus regularly and have encountered the occasional homeless person or drunk, but the majority of riders are working people, students and the elderly....and quite a few more "suits" than in the past (mostly younger professionals).

 

That said, we are seeing not only heavily-crowded buses here in Columbus, but frequently well into the so-called off-peak hours.  But if you look on the COTA After the Levy thread, you will see that COTA is adding both routes, as well as more buses and more frequent service.

 

I think people in Columbus deserve more routes and better service all around, considering the price. The bus is cheaper in Cincinnati and the route I used (17) was much more frequent than the one I use in Columbus (10 -Broad St.). I know it varies from route to route but considering the popularity of E. Broad/W. Broad corridor I think it should run about every 15 minutes during peak hours. I think I usually wait about a half hour or more for a bus by the State House during the day. I really like the people on that route; everyone's social and the bus drivers are friendly. From my experience in Cincinnati, a lot of bus drivers have sticks up their ***. That may sound like an immature generalization but I've taken countless routes in Cincinnati for years. There seems to be a real sense of community on the bus on the routes I've been on in Columbus, whereas in Cincinnati people seem bitter that they even have to ride. Just a little cultural analysis from my own observation. Again, I know it varies from route to route.

 

 

U.S. cities still are not dense enough to warrant train pushers except maybe around times square during commuting when there are three tiers of people lined up at subway platforms. 

 

However, I think renewed interest in mass transit has reached a point where if you can get the ridership for rail or brt, build it.  As I mentioned, there are plenty of other cities, like Ann Arbor that have no excuse for not building intercity rail within the next few years.  I'm tired of waiting until 2015, 2018, or 2020.  I want it now!

[...]

 

  2. Increase running speed. This could be done by eliminating some stops, modifying intersection design to allow buses to pass through without stopping, increasing maximum speed, or decreasing loading and unloading times. Faster running speed allows the same number of buses to make more round trips per day, effectively decreasing the headway time.

 

Cincinnati's combination of hilly routes and strong ridership might justify adopting electric trolley buses. It takes a big initial investment in catenary and buses, but their superior acceleration under heavy loads and on hills would help to address the running-speed issue. ETBs have lower maintenance costs and longer service lives than their diesel counterparts. They're quieter and don't stink, and a system can be configured with regenerative braking so that buses descending hills or decelerating feed power back into the system.

I ride the 6 train everyday.. I guess you could say I've experienced a bit of overcrowding.. (sarcasm)

I ride the 6 train everyday.. I guess you could say I've experienced a bit of overcrowding.. (sarcasm)

 

That is the worst train line in the system. How many trains do you let pass before boarding?

^^I ride the 4/5 train most days so I share your pain.  I happened to take a 2 min video yesterday at 86th Street showing the crowd on the platform, a train arriving, and only a small portion of the crowd fitting on.  It's nothing like that line in Japan, but certainly we deserve better.

 

The 6 line is such a wreck in Manhattan on weekends (mostly daytrippers and tourists), and sounds like the planned service increases were nixed.

^^I ride the 4/5 train most days so I share your pain.  I happened to take a 2 min video yesterday at 86th Street showing the crowd on the platform, a train arriving, and only a small portion of the crowd fitting on.  It's nothing like that line in Japan, but certainly we deserve better.

 

The 6 line is such a wreck in Manhattan on weekends (mostly daytrippers and tourists), and sounds like the planned service increases were nixed.

 

I hate riding that line. But going to Bloomie's or Barney's its the only way to get there in one seat rail trip.  I don't know how you folks downtown ride that train.

 

When I lived in Brooklyn Hts., I would get on at Boro Hall and The 2/3/4/5 were just packed.  However, at that time, they had great frequency.  I think at that time, the 6 ran to bowling green daily, not city hall/brooklyn bridge, so that also added a small bit of relief.

 

On the weekends, it's a nightmare. 

 

Oh and during baseball season it's a mess.  I took 1 hour to go from Yankee Stadium to 125 street.  Four stops!  :x :x  For those in Cleveland that's like going from Shaker Square to 79 Street or West Blvd. to TowerCity.

Any regular rushhour riders of the HealthLine?  How crowded is it getting and how comfortable is a standing ride on the new vehicles?

[...]

 

  2. Increase running speed. This could be done by eliminating some stops, modifying intersection design to allow buses to pass through without stopping, increasing maximum speed, or decreasing loading and unloading times. Faster running speed allows the same number of buses to make more round trips per day, effectively decreasing the headway time.

 

Cincinnati's combination of hilly routes and strong ridership might justify adopting electric trolley buses. It takes a big initial investment in catenary and buses, but their superior acceleration under heavy loads and on hills would help to address the running-speed issue. ETBs have lower maintenance costs and longer service lives than their diesel counterparts. They're quieter and don't stink, and a system can be configured with regenerative braking so that buses descending hills or decelerating feed power back into the system.

 

Catenary is also like track, it is a stationary investment that developers see as bringing a predictable increase in land value, and it spurs more development than bus routes.

I ride the 6 train everyday.. I guess you could say I've experienced a bit of overcrowding.. (sarcasm)

 

That is the worst train line in the system. How many trains do you let pass before boarding?

 

It all depends.. I've had days as bad 7-8 trains before I could CRAM on.. some days you get lucky.  I've been leaving later (leave my apt at 8:45) so that I won't be as crowded, I'll still get to work around 9:10.  It sucks tho.. luckily my evening commute isn't as bad.

Any regular rushhour riders of the HealthLine? How crowded is it getting and how comfortable is a standing ride on the new vehicles?

 

Heading east from Public Square in the mornings there are usually a lot of people getting on for the first few stations.  Unless you are on a vehicle that is close behind another one, all the seats are usually filled, with some people standing.  Most of the time seats open up once you get past CSU.  However, only when a vehicle is running late have I experienced any of the situations where you have to really cram in.  On the way back downtown from MidTown in the evening it is slightly less crowded, but the majority of the seats will almost always be full.  I've noticed that a lot of people do not board if they see a crowded vehicle, knowing the next one is probably only a few minutes behind.  This speaks to the perception of the new system staying on time I guess, as I did not notice this to the same degree with the old #6, where people would always try to cram on.

I ride the 6 train everyday.. I guess you could say I've experienced a bit of overcrowding.. (sarcasm)

 

That is the worst train line in the system. How many trains do you let pass before boarding?

 

It all depends.. I've had days as bad 7-8 trains before I could CRAM on.. some days you get lucky.  I've been leaving later (leave my apt at 8:45) so that I won't be as crowded, I'll still get to work around 9:10.  It sucks tho.. luckily my evening commute isn't as bad.

 

DAMN!  With the proposed cuts, the 6 is only going to get worse.  I assume you're getting on at 77 street.  Can you walk to 86 Street?

I ride the 6 train everyday.. I guess you could say I've experienced a bit of overcrowding.. (sarcasm)

 

That is the worst train line in the system. How many trains do you let pass before boarding?

 

It all depends.. I've had days as bad 7-8 trains before I could CRAM on.. some days you get lucky.  I've been leaving later (leave my apt at 8:45) so that I won't be as crowded, I'll still get to work around 9:10.  It sucks tho.. luckily my evening commute isn't as bad.

 

DAMN!  With the proposed cuts, the 6 is only going to get worse.  I assume you're getting on at 77 street.  Can you walk to 86 Street?

 

I live on 77th so walking to 86th would be out of the way.  Also, I get off at 28th street, so the 4/5 is of no help.

 

I live on 77th so walking to 86th would be out of the way.  Also, I get off at 28th street, so the 4/5 is of no help.

 

Wow, you're screwed.  Have you tried the Express Bus? 

Just as bad during rush hour, at least with the subway there isn't traffic like on 2nd ave.

Just as bad during rush hour, at least with the subway there isn't traffic like on 2nd ave.

 

eeeek.  tme to move.

Every freakin day!  The new solution at cta is to remove seats from train cars and buses to pack more people on.  It makes sense since they can't add capacity any other way.  It's still kinda weird getting on a bus with most of the seats gone. 

 

I'm not sure who makes this model.....but they did it to the model of bus pictured below, which I think Cleveland has in it's fleet too.  These buses never worked well from a seating standpoint...it was a really messy arrangement.  Anyway, the lower floors of these buses have no seats now.

 

Any other transit agency doing anything different like this??

 

 

^OMG, that is sad.  Especially if you have to stand all the way from Chicago to St. Louis (that #39 has a long route!).

I ride the 6 train everyday.. I guess you could say I've experienced a bit of overcrowding.. (sarcasm)

 

That is the worst train line in the system. How many trains do you let pass before boarding?

 

I go to UC and co-op in NYC for 3 months at a time.  The last time I lived there over the summer, I took the N/W in from Queens, and took the 6 down to my office at 30th and Lex.  Trying to squeeze on that train was a joke.  Luckily there's a ton of people transferring there so there's a window of opportunity to run in.  Now that the W is ceasing to exist, I can only imagine what the N into Queens will be like during the afternoon rush hour, I would bet worse than the 6.

I ride the 6 train everyday.. I guess you could say I've experienced a bit of overcrowding.. (sarcasm)

 

That is the worst train line in the system. How many trains do you let pass before boarding?

 

I go to UC and co-op in NYC for 3 months at a time.  The last time I lived there over the summer, I took the N/W in from Queens, and took the 6 down to my office at 30th and Lex.  Trying to squeeze on that train was a joke.  Luckily there's a ton of people transferring there so there's a window of opportunity to run in.  Now that the W is ceasing to exist, I can only imagine what the N into Queens will be like during the afternoon rush hour, I would bet worse than the 6.

 

Well the W is a new line so people will go back to what they had.  Secondly, if you work or 30 why didn't you just stay on the W all the way to 28?

I ride the 6 train everyday.. I guess you could say I've experienced a bit of overcrowding.. (sarcasm)

 

That is the worst train line in the system. How many trains do you let pass before boarding?

 

I go to UC and co-op in NYC for 3 months at a time. The last time I lived there over the summer, I took the N/W in from Queens, and took the 6 down to my office at 30th and Lex. Trying to squeeze on that train was a joke. Luckily there's a ton of people transferring there so there's a window of opportunity to run in. Now that the W is ceasing to exist, I can only imagine what the N into Queens will be like during the afternoon rush hour, I would bet worse than the 6.

 

Well the W is a new line so people will go back to what they had. Secondly, if you work or 30 why didn't you just stay on the W all the way to 28?

 

 

I actually worked up at 32 & lex, and sometimes I'd make the walk over to 28 on the way home if I had the extra time, it's a few blocks over and a few blocks down, whereas the 6 at 33rd was one block away.  Switching to the 6 actually saved a few minutes though.

Just as bad during rush hour, at least with the subway there isn't traffic like on 2nd ave.

 

eeeek. tme to move.

 

Not with that I pay in rent.. riding the 6 is worth it.

Every freakin day!  The new solution at cta is to remove seats from train cars and buses to pack more people on.  It makes sense since they can't add capacity any other way.  It's still kinda weird getting on a bus with most of the seats gone. 

 

I'm not sure who makes this model.....but they did it to the model of bus pictured below, which I think Cleveland has in it's fleet too.  These buses never worked well from a seating standpoint...it was a really messy arrangement.  Anyway, the lower floors of these buses have no seats now.

 

Any other transit agency doing anything different like this??

 

 

 

Yessir, University of Michigan has cut out most of the lower level seats for standing room, although there are still a few seats up front for the elderly and seats arranged against the wall instead of perpendicular to it.  The sliding double doors at the back creating an ample 4.5 foot opening also adds to that affect.

^Sounds like the same set up, still a few near the front.  That bus style I showed also has one weird seat right behind the driver....then the wheel well....then a few seats against the wall. 

 

There is not much to hold onto, however they added straps to aid that problem even though cta has never been a "straphanger" friendly system....usually just bars