As expected, more bad news for Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo, Akron, Dayton, and Youngstown. I think all of us have gotten pretty numb to this by now...

 

This list only included the 100 largest MSA's in America, but you can be damn sure Canton, Lima, and Springfield would be on here too if it included smaller metros. BTW, Columbus did poorly too. It was in the bottom 25 metro areas for economic growth. Dayton was second worst in nation for private sector job losses after Detroit. Dayton lost 4% of its private sector employment over the last five years. Detroit lost 6%. Toledo and Cleveland lost 2% and 1% respectively.

 

Akron had by far the largest private sector employment increase of any Ohio metro area (6%), so it's kind of surprising it still made this list. Other factors outside raw employment numbers brought it down.

 

Bottom 10 growth centers

 

bizjournals - November 10, 2008 by G. Scott Thomas

 

1. Detroit

Gross metropolitan product (GMP) has grown just 8.8 percent in five years, the worst rate among all 100 metros.

 

2. Toledo

One of eight markets to lose population and jobs in the past half-decade: down 1.2 percent and 2.2 percent, respectively.

 

3. Youngstown

Suffered the worst population loss of any metro during the 2006-07 period, slightly more than 1 percent.

 

4. Dayton

The third Ohio metro in the bottom four. Has seen 14,400 private-sector jobs slip away since 2002.

 

5. Cleveland

Ohio yet again. Metro population is down 2.1 percent in five years, translating to a loss of 44,300 people.

 

6. Grand Rapids

Money is the big problem, as indicated by ranks of 88th (among 100 metros) in per capita income growth and 93rd in gross metropolitan product growth.

 

7. Akron

Economy wasn't bad in mid-decade, but now is losing momentum. Only Detroit had a worse growth rate for gross metropolitan product during the past year.

 

8. Buffalo

The lowest market outside of Michigan and Ohio. Population is down 2.6 percent in five years, while employment is off 0.6 percent.

 

9. Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, Pa.

Output of goods and services is sluggish. Gross metropolitan product is up 20.8 percent for half-decade, dwarfed by U.S. average of 31.8 percent.

 

10. Cincinnati

Paychecks aren't expanding very rapidly. Only eight metros posted lower growth rates for per capita income in the past year.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/pages/215.html

 

Do the political leaders of the state even realize this?  Do they care?  How about the average citizen?  Do they care?  Sad, pathetic, and shameful news.

Do the political leaders of the state even realize this?  Do they care?  How about the average citizen?  Do they care?  Sad, pathetic, and shameful news.

 

As with the federal government.  our current governor cannot change things overnight.  There has been 12 years of crap.  He can't repair the state in one term.

Do the political leaders of the state even realize this? Do they care? How about the average citizen? Do they care? Sad, pathetic, and shameful news.

 

Do you honestly think they don't?  What would you have them do?  I'm guessing you must know how to fix the problem.

If you ask the average person in Ohio, they'll tell you how great Twinsburg or West Chester is doing.  Aggressive re-urbanization locally and support of domestic industry at the national level will turn it around.  For years, Columbus and Washington have been very anti-Cleveland and we're looking at the results. 

Interesting methodology.  Indy ranks below KC even though it is equal or better on ever measure according to their data chart.  Not that either of them are superstars on this ranking.

 

Brimingham Alabama actually ranked higher than Ohio cities.

 

Hard to believe that, but guess its true.

 

I think Des Moines was the best score for the Midwest.

has anyone taken a look at the top 25 cities?  almost every one of those non-cities is totally awful... Houston?  Wichita?  Ogden, Utah?  Lakeland, Florida?  MCALLEN, TEXAS!  BLECH!

has anyone taken a look at the top 25 cities?  almost every one of those non-cities is totally awful... Houston?  Wichita?  Ogden, Utah?  Lakeland, Florida?  MCALLEN, TEXAS!  BLECH!

 

One day when the water runs out and gas is 10 dollars a gallon (although right now prices are plummeting!)...the South will get their cummupins.

 

Something is wrong.  They have Vegas as the city with the most growth potential along with several florida and texas cities. 

 

 

well... No. 5 BizJournals darling Phoenix has experienced the 2nd worst rate of year-over-year job loss for Oct. 2008 (after Detroit)...

well... No. 5 BizJournals darling Phoenix has experienced the 2nd worst rate of year-over-year job loss for Oct. 2008 (after Detroit)...

 

Exactly.  We know that housing and jobs have erroded in those area.  What will Vegas and Phoenix be "labeled"  "the tumbleweed belt"?  retirees funds have been aftected, travel and tourism to those areas has decreased , foreclosures are off the chain and what new job growth has there been?

 

I'm clicking my....

 

explain this

 

rank  name                score        pop+        employment +            wage +      metro GDP +

78    Worcester, Mass. -5.41       1.76%         1.49%               16.06% 17.58%

91 Cincinnati         - 9.71 4.05% 3.88%               18.22% 22.91%

 

so how does Cincinnati score lower when it ranks higher in every single category

^That's a good question.  Cincinnati's scores seem to place it somewhere in the 51-75 bracket of cities, not the 76-100 and definitely not the lowest ten.

another useless study

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/106244/Players-Shift,-but-Twin-Cities-Still-Best-for-Business

 

"MarketWatch names best cities for business!"

 

1. Minneapolis-St. Paul

2. Boston

3. Denver

4. Washington, D.C.

5. Richmond

6. Charlotte

7. Columbus

8. Nashville

9. Dallas

10. San Francisco

11. New York

12. Houston

13. Salt Lake City

14. Seattle

15. Atlanta

16. Milwaukee

17. St. Louis

18. Raleigh

19. Birmingham

20. Kansas City

21. Jacksonville

22. Oklahoma City

23. Memphis

24. Indianapolis

25. Pittsburgh

26. Cleveland

27. Chicago

28. Austin

29. Philadelphia

30. Portland

31. Phoenix

32. San Diego

33. Louisville

34. Baltimore

35. Hartford

36. Orlando

37. Cincinnati

38. Las Vegas

39. Providence

40. Miami

41. San Antonio

42. Virginia Beach

43. Detroit

44. Tampa-St. Petersburg

45. Los Angeles

46. Rochester

47. Sacramento

48. Tucson

49. Buffalo

50. New Orleans

explain this

 

rank   name score pop+   employment + wage +   metro GDP +

78   Worcester, Mass. -5.41   1.76% 1.49%   16.06% 17.58%

91 Cincinnati - 9.71 4.05% 3.88%   18.22% 22.91%

 

so how does Cincinnati score lower when it ranks higher in every single category

 

lol

Why does the national media like to shit on Ohio so much? It's like telling a teacher telling a student he's stupid when it's obvious he's not.  No matter how much his parents and friends tell him differently, if all he hears from those in authority is that he's stupid, eventually he'll start to believe it.  No matter how much good PR Ohio and it's cities produces, the national media seems to always be against us.

They don't give their precise methodology, but it seems overly complex.  You should read their description of it for yourself.

I simply laugh at these articles now.. dead horse = beaten.

Why does the national media like to shit on Ohio so much? It's like telling a teacher telling a student he's stupid when it's obvious he's not.  No matter how much his parents and friends tell him differently, if all he hears from those in authority is that he's stupid, eventually he'll start to believe it.  No matter how much good PR Ohio and it's cities produces, the national media seems to always be against us.

 

It's an easy story.  More than likely these writers and journalists have never been to most of these places and are reporting on cold numbers.  They run a few calculations and weight some things for importance.  You then insert the typical commentary used over and over about Ohio cities and the Midwest in general sucking, South growing, Sun Belt booming, yadda yadda yadda and you have yourself a story that is proven to sell.

yeah, definately proven easy to write at least.

 

i dk about the author, but bizjournal hq is charlotte, nc. say, how'd they rank? oh #6 best, eh? i mean come on.

Sprawl is not growth, Sun Belt.

Why does the national media like to sh!t on Ohio so much? It's like telling a teacher telling a student he's stupid when it's obvious he's not. No matter how much his parents and friends tell him differently, if all he hears from those in authority is that he's stupid, eventually he'll start to believe it. No matter how much good PR Ohio and it's cities produces, the national media seems to always be against us.

 

Well, Ohio really isn't a hotbed for growth, but no area is at this time for that matter.  If you can remember back in the 80's, it was New Jersey that was the joke and constatly put down during the resession and rightfully so.  Well, now it's Ohio.  20 years from now, I hope we turn it around like New Jersey has. 

Why does the national media like to sh!t on Ohio so much? It's like telling a teacher telling a student he's stupid when it's obvious he's not.  No matter how much his parents and friends tell him differently, if all he hears from those in authority is that he's stupid, eventually he'll start to believe it.  No matter how much good PR Ohio and it's cities produces, the national media seems to always be against us.

 

Well, Ohio really isn't a hotbed for growth, but no area is at this time for that matter.  If you can remember back in the 80's, it was New Jersey that was the joke and constatly put down during the resession and rightfully so.  Well, now it's Ohio.  20 years from now, I hope we turn it around like New Jersey has. 

 

Michigan is more the butt of the joke than Ohio is. Unfortunately when people think of big midwest cities...they think of Detroit and Cleveland (as it was in the 70/80s) not booming places like Indianapolis, Minneapolis, and Columbus. I wouldn't consider Cincinnati down and out either.

 

Booming??  :wtf:  :wtf:  :wtf:

Don't act like you don't know ;)

 

MTS - you check out Columbus lately? I think you'd enjoy a day of shopping or clubbing in the Short North (hell, half of the places are gay bars or gay restaurants or gay owned) or walking around German Village (I know I promote Columbus too much so I digress at this point).

 

I think all cities are suffering at this point with foreclosures, manufacturing, financing, law, retail, insurance etc. all tanking. I don't think anyone wants to look at who is technically worse off.

 

 

Minneapolis has been hit hard by job losses.

Why does the national media like to sh!t on Ohio so much? It's like telling a teacher telling a student he's stupid when it's obvious he's not.  No matter how much his parents and friends tell him differently, if all he hears from those in authority is that he's stupid, eventually he'll start to believe it.  No matter how much good PR Ohio and it's cities produces, the national media seems to always be against us.

 

Well, Ohio really isn't a hotbed for growth, but no area is at this time for that matter.  If you can remember back in the 80's, it was New Jersey that was the joke and constatly put down during the resession and rightfully so.  Well, now it's Ohio.  20 years from now, I hope we turn it around like New Jersey has. 

 

Michigan is more the butt of the joke than Ohio is. Unfortunately when people think of big midwest cities...they think of Detroit and Cleveland (as it was in the 70/80s) not booming places like Indianapolis, Minneapolis, and Columbus. I wouldn't consider Cincinnati down and out either.

 

Booming??  :wtf:  :wtf:  :wtf:

 

Booming by Midwestern standards, yes.  By national standards, no.

Why does the national media like to sh!t on Ohio so much? It's like telling a teacher telling a student he's stupid when it's obvious he's not.  No matter how much his parents and friends tell him differently, if all he hears from those in authority is that he's stupid, eventually he'll start to believe it.  No matter how much good PR Ohio and it's cities produces, the national media seems to always be against us.

 

Well, Ohio really isn't a hotbed for growth, but no area is at this time for that matter.  If you can remember back in the 80's, it was New Jersey that was the joke and constatly put down during the resession and rightfully so.  Well, now it's Ohio.  20 years from now, I hope we turn it around like New Jersey has. 

 

Michigan is more the butt of the joke than Ohio is. Unfortunately when people think of big midwest cities...they think of Detroit and Cleveland (as it was in the 70/80s) not booming places like Indianapolis, Minneapolis, and Columbus. I wouldn't consider Cincinnati down and out either.

 

Booming??  :wtf:  :wtf:  :wtf:

 

Booming by Midwestern standards, yes.  By national standards, no.

 

They're not booming.  Today NO city is BOOMING.  regionally or nationally.

All three of those metros are adding population at faster than the national average.  Indy and Columbus actually added jobs in the most recent figures compared to job declines almost everywhere nationally.

 

For the 3 metro areas from October 2007-2008 (From Bureau Labor Of Statistics)

 

Columbus Unemployment rate jumped 1.3%

Cincinnati Unemployment rate jumped 1.4%

Cleveland Unemployment rate jumped 0.9%

All three of those metros are adding population at faster than the national average.  Indy and Columbus actually added jobs in the most recent figures compared to job declines almost everywhere nationally.

 

 

I love it when I see stats and links to those stats.  :wink:

For the 3 metro areas from October 2007-2008 (From Bureau Labor Of Statistics)

 

Columbus Unemployment rate jumped 1.3%

Cincinnati Unemployment rate jumped 1.4%

Cleveland Unemployment rate jumped 0.9%

 

I believe I just read that Columbus has had a job increase in the past month.

The key to remember is that the boom towns in the data is from the tail end of the real estate bubble. Don't pay attention until after we get the 2010 data, because that will reveal which of the boomburbs survived the crash and which have become ghost towns.

Thats a good point. Man I can't wait for the census to come out! Cities have changed so much since 2000.

For the 3 metro areas from October 2007-2008 (From Bureau Labor Of Statistics)

 

Columbus Unemployment rate jumped 1.3%

Cincinnati Unemployment rate jumped 1.4%

Cleveland Unemployment rate jumped 0.9%

 

I believe I just read that Columbus has had a job increase in the past month.

 

month-to-month job increase figures aren't that important... year-over-year job increases are much more useful... and yes... Columbus employment grew 0.5% year-over-year for Oct. 2008... year-over-year limits seasonal employment factors (such as teen labor force shrinking in Sept.; holiday retail expansion in Nov., etc.)

 

...

 

Unemployment rate is another metric I'm loathe to use... as it measures something very specific... and not necessarily how many people are truly... unemployed

 

The rate can also be affected by either job losses (bad thing)... or labor force expansion outstripping job creation (can be a good thing, i.e. population growth)

Columbus will be a good study over the next decade or two -- can it sustain economic and population growth as it has for the last 40 years? The annexation era has obviously come to an end and the city is already being forced to deal with the disinvestment/redevelopment cycle in the 60's and 70's growth areas (not unlike others cities inner-ring suburbs) while at the same time facing the typical problems that all cities face in the urban core area.

Columbus could ultimately get pulled down by the poor performance of the state, but I think the city is well-positioned.  From what I've seen, there is still some annexation gas left in the tank too.  Columbus has featured moderate growth slightly in excess of the national average. I think that's healthy and sustainable.  What I wonder about is whether some of these truly booming cities got hooked on growth related industries to fuel their economy to an extent that the engine sputters when the gas is shut off.  Atlanta lost over 40K jobs last year.  It's hard to be adding 100,000 people per year to your population base if your job base is shrinking by that much.  I think Atlanta will be fine, but we'll see if there are any blowups.

 

My worry is that Columbus has relied too much on retail and homebuilders for its growth. Certainly it has other assets that should keep a bottom on the economy (like P&G for Cincinnati), but I think retail will not come out of the economy as a growth engine.

^Most of the homebuilders certainly got what they deserved.

^You should see my mom's subdivision! It's insane. Most of the houses were built around year 2000. I would guess that 1/4th or 1/5th of the houses have been foreclosed on in past few years. Almost half of them have probably been through foreclosure at some point since 2000. When she bought it a few years ago it was a foreclosure and the price she paid wasn't even a good deal for her because of a huge amount of foreclosures that came about after she bought it. The HOA sued Dominion homes because of their financing model. They had it set up to where people were paying extremely low mortgages for the first few years and the people under those terms all foreclosed at the same time causing a huge disaster in the subdivision. Now the houses are either sitting there unoccupied or they're being rented out. There are so many un-mowed lawns and untrimmed bushes everywhere. Dominion Homes didn't care at the time because they got their money. When I walk down those streets I see not only house after house for sale but two SUVs in the driveways for sale. Just from walking down the street though, you can tell that it is not just Dominion Home's fault. Many people are living in a 160k house and drive Hummer 2s. Talk about not having regard for affordability ratios.

 

Another thing that bothers me about Dominion Homes is their completely lame attempt at New Urbanism. The houses are close together, garages are in the rear and there is a centralized park with stuff for kids but the materials are cheap, the buildings are ugly and lack ornate detail and the whole neighborhood is totally isolated, even due to train tracks bordering the development.

 

 

Can you honestly look at these houses and think Dominion Homes wasn't all about making a quick buck?

^You should see my mom's subdivision! It's insane. Most of the houses were built around year 2000. I would guess that 1/4th or 1/5th of the houses have been foreclosed on in past few years. Almost half of them have probably been through foreclosure at some point since 2000. When she bought it a few years ago it was a foreclosure and the price she paid wasn't even a good deal for her because of a huge amount of foreclosures that came about after she bought it. The HOA sued Dominion homes because of their financing model. They had it set up to where people were paying extremely low mortgages for the first few years and the people under those terms all foreclosed at the same time causing a huge disaster in the subdivision. Now the houses are either sitting there unoccupied or they're being rented out. There are so many un-mowed lawns and untrimmed bushes everywhere. Dominion Homes didn't care at the time because they got their money. When I walk down those streets I see not only house after house for sale but two SUVs in the driveways for sale. Just from walking down the street though, you can tell that it is not just Dominion Home's fault. Many people are living in a 160k house and drive Hummer 2s. Talk about not having regard for affordability ratios.

 

Another thing that bothers me about Dominion Homes is their completely lame attempt at New Urbanism. The houses are close together, garages are in the rear and there is a centralized park with stuff for kids but the materials are cheap, the buildings are ugly and lack ornate detail and the whole neighborhood is totally isolated, even due to train tracks bordering the development.

 

 

Can you honestly look at these houses and think Dominion Homes wasn't all about making a quick buck?

 

While I will be one of the first not to show support for suburban sprawl, I will give this project some support since they did layout the project in a more traditional manner. If America is determined to continue to build cheap suburban crap at least design the project to have some sustainable concepts. Rear loaded garages, front porches, neighborhood park, close together (better density) and reduced setbacks. Its a step in the right direction over most suburban sprawl.

wow.  No offense David, but those homes are fugly.

wow.  No offense David, but those homes are fugly.

 

Who are you telling?! That's why I posted 'em lol. My mom's house is even uglier. It's in a slightly earlier development the next subdivision over. It has a hideous garage in the front. Believe it or not, those shotgun houses have lofts inside which is kind of interesting. Some of them are even HUD homes. I think the real reason these new urbanism houses  have open floor plan and lofts is because it requires less building materials/lower cost.

 

Since I'm on the subject of trashing on my mom's new neighborhood, here's an aerial view

 

 

Notice how all of the street names have a theme. Ratification Dr., Debate Way, Resolution Way. I actually think that would be a good idea for a lot of new developments. It kind of gives you a sense of what neighborhood you're in and gives your neighborhood a theme - God knows new construction needs identity wherever it can find it.

 

Also notice how poorly designed it is.  That isn't a road above Signature Dr, that's a slightly elevated railroad spur that completely isolates the development. Those plots of land surrounding it have been undeveloped forever. Even if they are developed, they won't connect to anything.

 

I like the density factor below the tracks compared to above.  (Albeit cheaply constructed houses)

Trust me, if you walked through it, you would say "what is the point?". No one ever walks outside. There's no reason to since there's nothing to walk to. There's a park within it but small bland parks like that are underutilized unless there's activity somewhere around the edges of it.

Why, just why?  It's a cheezy version of Knots Landing