See, at the beginning of May, America set its trip mileage to 0...

 

KJP?

 

Hellifiknow

^This question sent me on a search. This is what I found:

 

5. Where did the FHWA get the traffic data used in TVT?

 

The TVT report is based on traffic data from the Highway Performance Monitoring System and on data submitted to the FHWA by State highway agencies throughout the entire U.S. The State highway agencies collect the data through permanent automatic traffic recorders (ATR) on public roadways.

 

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/tvtw/tvtfaq.htm

 

aaah, ATRs, how silly of me.

 

Thanks for the leg-work!

^This question sent me on a search. This is what I found:

 

5. Where did the FHWA get the traffic data used in TVT?

 

The TVT report is based on traffic data from the Highway Performance Monitoring System and on data submitted to the FHWA by State highway agencies throughout the entire U.S. The State highway agencies collect the data through permanent automatic traffic recorders (ATR) on public roadways.

 

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/tvtw/tvtfaq.htm

 

 

So, bobbleheads.

Anybody watch the Nova on PBS the other day where "Click and Clack" the car guys from NPR evaluated the different automobile technologies currently in review. I thought it was a nice synopsis of the pros and cons of the different options.

 

Here's the link to the website

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/

 

The things I thought were interesting were the carbon fiber body parts that someone had developed, which you could pick up with one hand, but were stronger than today's steel parts, and the discussion of electric cars. It seems like where we're concerned about a distribution system for whatever the new fuel is going to be, the electric option makes a lot of sense as that system (the grid) is already largely in place.

 

This particular link discusses our need to establish a type of government policy to implement behavioral change

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/greene.html

 

 

Drop In U.S. Oil Consumption A Two-Edged Sword

by Scott Horsley

 

Listen Now:

javascript:NPR.Player.openPlayer(93540764, 93540737, null, NPR.Player.Action.PLAY_NOW, NPR.Player.Type.STORY, '0')

 

All Things Considered, August 12, 2008 · The Energy Department has reported the steepest drop in oil consumption in more than a quarter-century. The slowdown in U.S. energy use is one of the major factors pulling crude oil prices down from their historic highs of a month ago.

 

Oil prices have fallen more than 20 percent since early July, closing Tuesday just above $113 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The average price of gasoline nationwide has fallen well below $4 a gallon.

 

Full story at:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93540764

Interesting tidbit on how declining automobile sales ("fueled" by gasoline prices)are impacting the railroad industry.

 

NS shifts automotive equipment gears to match car-buying pattern shifts

Progressive Railroading

 

As is the case for all Class Is, automotive traffic volumes are down at Norfolk Southern Corp. — way down. Automotive carloads dropped about 12 percent in the second quarter to 116,300 units after tumbling 11 percent in the first quarter to 119,600 units because the weakening economy and skyrocketing gasoline prices are reducing vehicle sales.

 

During an Aug. 7 visit to NS’ Norfolk, Va., headquarters, the topic of the sluggish automotive market came up while I chatted with Executive Vice President Planning and Chief Information Officer Debbie Butler. The market will continue to be soft in 2009, she told me.

 

More at: http://www.progressiverailroading.com/blogs/default.asp?BlogID=711

High gas prices drive down traffic fatalities

Death toll appears headed to lowest point since JFK was president

The Associated Press

updated 8:31 a.m. ET, Mon., Aug. 25, 2008

 

WASHINGTON - Roll back the clock to 1961: John F. Kennedy was inaugurated president. The Peace Corps was founded. The Dow Jones industrials hit 734. Gasoline reached 31 cents a gallon.

 

And the number of people killed in U.S. traffic accidents that year topped 36,200.

 

Rest of the story can be found at:

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26389156/

 

It does seem that people are driving slower in addition to less. To get back to the original idea behind this thread, we got rid of our second car.

I know that I have been driving slower. For two reasons: 1) It's easier on gas. 2) I can't afford another ticket.

State employees save $2 million in mileage costs

Thursday,  August 28, 2008 9:21 PM

By Alan Johnson

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

For once, there's good news about fuel costs.

 

State employees who use their personal vehicles for business drove about 5.2 million fewer miles in the past fiscal year than in the previous one, resulting in a $2 million reduction in mileage reimbursements, according to the Ohio Department of Administrative Services, the business arm of state government.

 

Fullstory at:

http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/08/28/less_miles.html?sid=101

Ohio government could "give" transit/bus passes to state employees to commute to the state offices.  Ohio subsidizes transit anyway (inadequately, yes)--why should not the subsidy take the form of bus passes?  For that matter, state employees could do their work-day travel by transit/bus.

Actually, ODOT offers discounted, pre-tax COTA passes to all of its employees.

But with the data from that article, I might be able to come with an estimate of how much (or if any) money the state might get back from subsidizing passenger rail service in the 3-C Corridor (ala how Illinois subsidizes its Amtrak services). Our own 3-C route is almost certainly where the largest share of state employee business trips are made. Interesting that 24.8 million miles of travel were made. At 50.5 cents per mile, that's $12,524,000 for this year. The average passenger rail ticket on Amtrak costs 10 to 20 cents per mile. Let's split the difference and call it 15 cents.

 

What if state employee travel is based on population? If so, two-thirds of all state employees are traveling in the 3-C Corridor. So if that's the case, that's $8,349,332 (round to $8,350,000) in travel expenses in a year. It's common for one-third of longer-distance commuter to choose the train if a train is available. So what if one-third of state employees traveling in the 3-C Corridor take the train instead of driving? That represents $5,566,666 (round to $5,570,000) of the total. Instead of paying 50.5 cents per mile to drive, state employees would pay 15 cents per mile to take the train. That could mean a first-year savings of $3,899,000 to the state, which could then be used to help subsidize train service and provide travel savings to other Ohioans and free up spending within Ohio. Although past 3-C studies showed the first 3-C round trip would involve an operating subsidy of about $2 million per year. But the second round trip wouldn't double the subsidy; instead it would rise by about 70 percent and so on with increasing economies of scale.

Ohio government could "give" transit/bus passes to state employees to commute to the state offices.  Ohio subsidizes transit anyway (inadequately, yes)--why should not the subsidy take the form of bus passes?  For that matter, state employees could do their work-day travel by transit/bus.

 

 

Unfortunately, not just a few state office are in transit-inaccessible areas.  Ex:  Ohio EPA office in Twinsburg, BCI office in Richfield, Ohio EPA office and BCI office in Bowling Green, Ohio EPA office in Logan, ODNR office in Salem, ODNR office in Uniontown, most ODOT district offices, Turnpike Commission offices...

 

As far as work-day travel... for agencies like Ohio EPA and ODNR, this would rarely work.  Most "field work" for these agencies takes place outside of the service areas of transit agencies. 

 

Traveling to Central Offices in Columbus for meetings/trainings is a different matter, but only if we have rail service or decent intercity bus service. 

 

Current Greyhound schedules on the 3-C corridor make it impossible to use for business needs. 

 

 

 

But with the data from that article, I might be able to come with an estimate of how much (or if any) money the state might get back from subsidizing passenger rail service in the 3-C Corridor (ala how Illinois subsidizes its Amtrak services)....

 

Neat idea, KJP. 

 

Additionally, I wonder if it's possible to come up with a "diverted wear and tear" figure for freight and passenger traffic diverted off of Ohio Highways and onto the Ohio Hub, for example.  An annual appropriation would be based upon that figure, since the constitutional prohibition of spending gas taxes on anything but public highways would prohibit diverting that amount from ODOT. 

 

 

 

WASHINGTON, Aug 28 (Reuters) - American drivers faced with $4 gasoline have embraced conservation and consumers are unlikely to easily return to their old gas-guzzling ways now that pump prices are retreating from record levels.

 

They talk as if it's a huge difference between $4 and $3.69 or that the recent price drops are permanent.  Give me a break...

 

 

They also are not noting that it is a large drop in terms of absolute dollars, but not a large drop as a percent of price.  A drop in price from $4 to $3.69 is the same percent difference as a drop from $1.25 to $1.15, which would have been common weekly fluctuation in the early 90's cheap oil heyday.  It's like how the stock market at 12,000 swings by a couple of hundred points all the time, when in the 80's that would have been a massive drop.

hurricane a' coming. $4.39 a gallon by the end of the week? Any excuse to bilk will be taken

Seriously, when have they been bilking us? Please compare oil company profit margins to those of other companies. You will not be impressed (at least least I'm not impressed at a 10 percent profit margin). It's the size of several oil companies that's disgusting, not their profit margins.

OH BOO HOO.

 

Good god.

Seriously, when have they been bilking us? Please compare oil company profit margins to those of other companies. You will not be impressed (at least least I'm not impressed at a 10 percent profit margin). It's the size of several oil companies that's disgusting, not their profit margins.

I am sure there is lot more to it than just looking at profit margins (subsidies, tax breaks etc). If it were not that profitable they would not be clinging so tight to the dinosaur and get so greedily involved in public policy to starve out alternative sources of energy. Help me out here, but didnt they report their highest profits after Katrina?

And their highest expenses.

 

They don't cling to dinosaurs. They are dinosaurs, and they'll squeeze every last drop of oil out as long its more profitable than alternative energy sources.

wow. oil price are falling!! refineries are shut down. Last time this happened prices soared. Gee, I wonder what else is going on this week besides that passing storm.

Oil's fall won't sway frugal drivers

Even if gasoline prices drop with the cost of oil, Americans still face high food costs and lots of debt.

By STEVENSON JACOBS, The Associated Press

September 13, 2008

 

NEW YORK — The worst oil shock since the 1970s has put a permanent mark on the American way of life that even a drop in oil's price below $100 a barrel won't erase.

 

Public transportation is in. Hummers are out. Frugality is in. Wastefulness is out.

 

Although oil prices dipped beneath the $100 mark Friday for the first time in five months, it still isn't cheap, and Americans have long memories. They're saddled with debt, high food costs and homes worth far less than in 2006.

 

More at: http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=209903&ac=PHbiz

All's I can say is good for us. Even though we're not paying anything close to the true price of a gallon of gas, Americans have been given a taste of the true cost of our choices. I've stopped factoring travel expenses in terms of gas prices altogether; I've switched to the revised IRS 58.5-cents/mile. By this token, the measly two-days I can manage to take the bus to work are yielding me a weekly savings of approximately $30.

 

But posters are correct to point out that this fall of 40-cents is laughably minor. I wonder where the tipping point is for us to fall back to old levels of consumption. I feel like $2.00/gallon presents a clean psychological divide, if for no other reason, people can quickly access their times-tables for 2 x the capacity of their gas tank.

Gas this afternoon at a Giant Eagle station in Columbus... $3.99 a gallon.

Please see the Peak Oil thread for an article about the vulnerabilities which the last two hurricanes exposed. I'm sure the sheep/zombie hoards will blame gouging companines etc. We Americans sure do have a hard time understanding what the term "limited resource" means. Alas, endless consumption is not a national birthright.

Ike is forcing prices up today. I heard of one station in Geogia which raised prices to $4.95/gal. Maybe people are zombies, but even they are right to question raising prices on what's already at the gas station. Hard to understand.

Gas stations don't charge for the gasoline on hand. They charge for the replacement gas.

Gas stations don't charge for the gasoline on hand. They charge for the replacement gas.

unless of course replacement gas  is cheaper then they take a good long time to lower the price. My father and law owned a gas station and said this sudden rise of $1 gallon means the 50,00-100,000 gallions sitting there are quite profitable (do the math on that one) . The replacement gas price will remain high. He said manipulation is part of the game .  Not that I think the little guy always makes the big bucks in this fuel mess, but they are not suffering today.

 

Don't get me wrong this is not about me wining about my pocketbook , I WANT $10 a gallon gas, I just find rising profits troubling. A heavy % being taxed should help, but most important public policy will change. Or maybe not- Palin can pray for a new pipeline so pappa Cheney won't go hungry

Pricey gas forces changes

Hummers are out; 'staycations' are likely to stay

Monday,  September 15, 2008 3:02 AM

By Stevenson Jacobs

 

ASSOCIATED PRESS

NEW YORK -- The worst oil shock since the 1970s has put a permanent mark on the American way of life that even an oil-price drop to below $100 a barrel won't erase.

 

Public transportation is in. Hummers are out. Frugality is in. Wastefulness is out.

 

Full story at:

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2008/09/15/100-dollar_oil_0915.ART_ART_09-15-08_C12_0MBB0UT.html?sid=101

 

http://www.economicnews.ca/cepnews/wire/article/128830

 

High Gas Prices Expected to Push U.S. Car Sales to 1980s Levels, Economists Say

Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:14pm

 

(CEP News) Ottawa - High gas prices are likely to do something that oil price shocks of the 1970s and 80s could not accomplish - push large numbers of vehicles off American roads, says a report released Tuesday by CIBC World Markets.

 

Economists Jeff Rubin and Meny Grauman say sales of new vehicles have already plunged from almost 17 million units in the first half of the decade to below 14 million on an annual basis, and with gas prices expected to remain high sales will likely fall below 12 million a year - a level not seen since the early 1980s.

 

Full story at above link:

^Guess what? The Chinese and everyone else are not immune to the "fundamental changes" in fuel prices taking place. Just today, it was announced that GM had the best month of all the major auto-makers, foreign or domwstic; their sales only declined 16%. This was better than everyone else, including Toyota and Honda.

I wonder if some of the states that put their eggs in the private roads basket will end up regretting it, since some of those contracts have the state retain the risk if the road fails to produce the promised income. Richmond has a number of private roads.

Gas $3.19 in Westlake this morning.  Lowest I've seen in a while.

I wonder if some of the states that put their eggs in the private roads basket will end up regretting it, since some of those contracts have the state retain the risk if the road fails to produce the promised income. Richmond has a number of private roads.

 

This is why government lawyers need to be paid better

It was noted that gasoline production was quite high and prices were quite low in the months leading up to the November 2004 presidential election.  After that, production returned to normal and prices steadily rose.  I expect that these "bargain" prices will disappear in late November and motorists will then be paying well over $4.00/gallon in the US.

 

Yes, I am talking about an oil conspiracy: http://www.slate.com/id/2150903/

^Just one of the many vast right wing conspiracies happening now!!  It will be nice to see gas in the $2-3 range for a month at least!  Then onward and upward!!!!

 

^Just one of the many vast right wing conspiracies happening now!!   It will be nice to see gas in the $2-3 range for a month at least! Then onward and upward!!!!

 

 

I wouldn't hold your breath on $2-3.

It was noted that gasoline production was quite high and prices were quite low in the months leading up to the November 2004 presidential election. After that, production returned to normal and prices steadily rose. I expect that these "bargain" prices will disappear in late November and motorists will then be paying well over $4.00/gallon in the US.

 

Yes, I am talking about an oil conspiracy: http://www.slate.com/id/2150903/

Doesn't that article debunk your myth?

^Just one of the many vast right wing conspiracies happening now!!   It will be nice to see gas in the $2-3 range for a month at least!  Then onward and upward!!!!

 

I wouldn't hold your breath on $2-3.

$3.17 in Westlake today.  Lowest in quite a long time.

 

^Guess what? The Chinese and everyone else are not immune to the "fundamental changes" in fuel prices taking place. Just today, it was announced that GM had the best month of all the major auto-makers, foreign or domwstic; their sales only declined 16%. This was better than everyone else, including Toyota and Honda.

 

Well, Honda and Toyota also do not hold "employee discounts" for two weeks -- then extend it for a full month or so to draw in the customers. They also increased their sales to rentals.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080925165505.htm

 

Science News

Reducing Work Commutes Not Easy In Some Cities, Study Suggests

 

ScienceDaily (Oct. 3, 2008) — Shorter work commutes are one way to reduce gasoline consumption, but a new study finds that not all cities are equal in how easy it would be to achieve that goal.

 

Research suggests that Atlanta and Minneapolis may be the U.S. metropolitan areas that would find it most difficult to reduce the miles that workers commute each day.

 

More at link above:

>“Many of the Rust Belt cities of the northeast are somewhat more compact, meaning that it becomes more difficult to reduce average trip lengths,” O’Kelly said.

 

Now is this because commute lengths are already shorter, or because large swaths of the inner cities are dramatically under-populated (or both [or was this an errant comment?])?  Again, the killer in all this is when married couples have jobs in different parts of the metro.   

$2.87 for gas here in Stow.

For gas price histories, check out:

 

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

 

Interesting stuff! Note that at this time of each year until the early part of the coming calendar year, gas prices are at their lowest. But the low period is higher each year. This year its around $3. Last year it was about $2.75. The year before it was about $2.20.

 

There is a lot of demand destruction going on, though the inflation of the last couple years may be hard to get rid of. The Bush admin has been screwing with those numbers (though not necessarily in an evil way, it was hard to get a reading) so getting a good sense of comparable data is hard.

Drivers not lured by lower gas prices

Frugal drivers aren't paying much attention to declining gas prices, as economic anxiety and volitile oil prices persist.

By Emily Maltby, CNNMoney.com staff writer

Last Updated: October 21, 2008: 3:26 PM ET

 

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Gasoline prices extended a month-long decline but drivers are not being easily lured back to the road despite an uptick in demand.

 

The national average price of a gallon of gas dropped 3.4 cents to $2.889, according to a survey of credit card swipes at gasoline stations by motorist group AAA.

 

The national average is now about 30% below the record high price of $4.114 on July 17, but 15 states are still selling gas at $3 a gallon or more. The highest prices are in Alaska ($3.84) and Hawaii ($3.79) and the lowest in Oklahoma ($2.46) and Kansas ($2.52).

 

Find this article at:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/21/news/economy/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes 

 

Sweet, so if the midset has changed, let's put MetroMoves back on the ballot.