What are you asking your fellow citizens to do?  Move out of Avon, sell the SUV, and take RTA?  What steps need to be taken?  Can you live in Avon if you drive to the Triskett rapid station or Westlake Park N Ride?  What if your SUV is a Hybrid and gets 30+ MPG? 

What are you asking your fellow citizens to do?

 

I haven't thought about it, but now that you ask.... My request of my fellow citizens is for them to read about this increasingly important issue and become informed. Then, whatever opinions they form and decisions they make will likely be more effective in combatting these problems at their source.

June 6, 2008: 8:11 AM EDT

Why oil prices will tank

Arguments that $4-a-gallon gas (or even higher) is here to stay are dead wrong. Housing's boom-and-bust cycle tells you why.

By Shawn Tully, editor at large

 

NEW YORK (Fortune) -- High-flying tech stocks crashed. The roaring housing market crumbled. And oil, rest assured, will follow the same path down.

 

Not everyone agrees. In an echo of our most recent market frenzies, some experts pronounce that the "world has changed," and that the demand spikes, supply disruptions, and government bungling we face now will saddle us with a future of $4, $5 or even $10 a gallon gasoline.

 

But if you stick to basic economics, it's clear that the only question is when - not if - prices will succumb.

 

 

Find this article at:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/news/economy/tully_oil_bust.fortune/index.htm?cnn=yes 

 

I wonder if they wrote that article before oil prices rose $10 per barrel in the last 24 hours! It has NEVER risen that fast before.

 

Gas prices are also rising fast -- futures have increased 13 cents per gallon THIS MORNING. One investment house is now predicting that oil prices will hit $150 by July 4.

 

There are still a lot of upward pricing pressures on the energy market.

Hard to say, but Tully is expressing a viewpoint I've heard recently from a few others: a so-called "Oil Bubble" theory.  Not sure I buy into totally, but I think there is some validity to it. There has to be some degree of inflated value.

There has to be .  . . hasn't the dot com market and the real estate bubble taught us anything? This is the same money chasing those higher returns. There may be good reasons for a rise in energy prices, but this smells like a bubble. When people start arguing out of all good reason for straight line increases in price that don't fit any historical trend it is a bubble.

Let's say there is a bubble and the price drops back down significantly. But what geological factors will keep the price there over the next 5, 50 or 100 years? The natural limits of oil production, a finite resource beset with increasing supply problems and costs, ensures that the only price trend over the long term is upward.

 

We weren't approaching peak supply of real estate or peak supply of computers or silicon that powered the rise in prices in those two sectors. Human beings caused those market upswings and thus there were no long-term fundamentals behind them continuing ad infinitum. Mother Nature is fundamentally behind the rise in oil price and her influence grows ever stronger the more oil we pump. We'll feel it even more as we crest the peak in oil supply and come down the other side. When Mother Nature imposes her will, she doesn't compromise with corporate titans, feel pity for cash-strapped working people or acknowledge the existence of federal regulators.

 

I understand you may be a skeptic. That's OK. But I believe you've got a big surprise coming to you if you believe the rise in oil prices is comparable to the real estate and dot-com bubbles. Give me a call in a few years and we'll see who's right.

It is angle of increases rather than the fact of increase that makes me question. I'd believe more the non-bubble if the price of oil started to mirror that of say higher education over the last twenty years, wherein it generally beats inflation by somewhere between 5 and 10% per year. Doubling each year is a bubble, 100% over say a decade seems more rational. Krauthammer actually has a good article on this today in the Washpost.

The angle of the increase is hardly unexpected. I was reading peak oil predictions four years ago which anticipated increasingly faster rises in oil prices as oil supplies flattened out and began to decline (either geologic declines, export declines or otherwise withheld oil). With declines in supply, hoarding/panic buying occurs and feedback loops kick in until economies collapse and some calm is restored to the markets. Prices fall back, but are still high.

BTW, the debate has gone mainstream at the Huffington Post....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2706.msg293143.html#msg293143

 

Let's continue to discuss the causes there. And let's keep this thread to the affects of high prices.

Oh suburbanites

 

 

Move back to the city.  Gas and other expenses are only going to get worse and most of you are already living above your means just so you can keep up with the Joneses.

Here's an interesting graphic from the NYTimes showing (roughly) who's feeling the gas price pinch most:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/06/09/business/20080609_GAS_GRAPHIC.html

Prices slap megacommuters

BY MARGARET A. MCGURK | [email protected]

 

Jenny Hudson used to commute six or seven miles to work. Now, she drives 60 miles. Each way.

 

“Of all people in the world, I am the last one who would do this,” she said. “I always laughed at everyone who had a long commute.”

 

But the combination of a good job in Beavercreek and a home she loves in Newport’s historic district turned her into a mega-commuter, one of about 10 percent of local drivers who spend at least 90 minutes a day – more than double the regional average – getting to and from work.

 

More at:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080609/NEWS01/306090006/1077/COL02

Oh suburbanites

 

Move back to the city. Gas and other expenses are only going to get worse and most of you are already living above your means just so you can keep up with the Joneses.

 

If I were to be concerned about gas prices and wanted to shorten the length of my commute, I would move to the suburbs.  Not everyone works downtown.  I would like to see numbers on this - I bet most don't work downtown.  Actually, in trying to think of someone I know on a personal/social basis that works downtown, it took me a bit to even think of 1 person...and even now, I can only think of a handful of people.  My brother even bought a house in Cleveland a few years back to be closer to work...only to be transfered to the suburbs 9 months later.

^I'm in this boat. I live downtown but work in the burbs (Polaris). Not for an instant, however, would I consider moving right near work, though I would have plenty of choice foreclosures/abandoned new builds to choose from. One plus: with my reverse commute, I never burn gas idling away in a traffic jam, not until I hit Polaris Parkway, at least. A third to half of my commute time is spent on Polaris and they're still developing new strip malls and office parks. But that's another gripe for another thread.

 

Perhaps high fuel prices will have a greater (positive) impact on older, inner-ring suburbs than downtowns proper.

The interesting thing is that some of the 70s era development that was left behind in the low energy price era may come back in style. We've been through high energy price moments before.

Perhaps high fuel prices will have a greater (positive) impact on older, inner-ring suburbs than downtowns proper.

 

Buddy, I have my fingers crossed on this one.

Fearing $5 gas, Americans cut back

New poll shows most Americans think gas prices will continue to rise and that current economic conditions are poor. Still, the outlook for next year is brighter.

By Ben Rooney, CNNMoney.com staff writer

Last Updated: June 9, 2008: 12:31 PM EDT

 

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- As more Americans become resigned to the possibility of paying $5 for a gallon for gas, they are driving less and seriously considering chucking their gas guzzlers, according to a poll released Monday.

 

The poll, conducted by CNN/Opinion Research, shows that 86% of respondents believe gas prices will top $5 a gallon sometime this year. That compares to 78% in April and 28% in May of last year.

 

Find this article at:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/09/news/economy/poll/index.htm?cnn=yes 

 

I am loving these high gas prices. I haven't seen many  Ford Explorers and cheap large SUV's on the roads much lately.  I did pass a H2 Hummer on the highway the other day he was driving about 50 MPH. :lol: Come on $5. gas!

 

If I were to be concerned about gas prices and wanted to shorten the length of my commute, I would move to the suburbs. Not everyone works downtown. I would like to see numbers on this - I bet most don't work downtown.

 

I'm sure you're right, but I'm also aware that among all the areas of employment in Greater Cleveland, downtown still has the most employees (100,000+), followed by University Circle (35,000+). Then you get into suburban office areas like Beachwood or Independence. And that's where the problem lies, at least in terms of giving people alternatives to driving. Metro areas have become so diffuse in their employment concentrations that it's difficult for transit to serve them. Yet, keep in mind that work trips typically account for only 20 percent of all trips we make per day, although they are likely to be the longest regular trips we make. It would take decades to reshape our metropolitan land use forms, but the most impactful would be to have mixed-use clusters where the non-work trips can be conducted within a 5-minute walk, 1-minute bike ride or 30-second drive. Even some work trips could be accomplished within these clusters. If the clusters were redesigned around transit and linked to other clusters, then all trips might be accomplished without a car. This is similar to how Stockholm was designed.

I saw a BRAND NEW Cadillac Escalade the other day with the temporary tag saying the car was bought only 3 days earlier!! What are these people thinking?!?!

 

    ^---- That they have more spending power than you and are willing to show it off.

Ya know... we're wasting a lot of breath getting preachy about or putting down people who drive SUV's.  If they were wiped off the face of the Earth tomorrow, we would still have a fuel consumption problem because we have so few options but to drive.

 

We can snicker all we want about the choices some people make about what they drive, but that doesn't get us any closer to getting more and better options: passenger rail, light rail, streetcars, bikeways, walkable neighborhoods, etc.  We can't hope to have an impact on fuel prices unless we have ways to move people that help us reduce the amount of fuel we use.

By the way, Noozer: NICE Escalade. You got the tow package? Dang...

 

    ^--- I'm serious about the SUV comment.

 

    Cars are a sort of fashion statement, just like clothes. As Rob said in a previous post, there are people that equate riding the bus with eating at the mission.

 

   

Kingfish... if I could even afford one, I wouldn't buy one. :-D

Cars are a sort of fashion statement, just like clothes. As Rob said in a previous post, there are people that equate riding the bus with eating at the mission.

 

True. But I sure can't wait to see them on the bus AND dining at the city mission.

 

    Why all the hate?

What do I hate snobs? Are you kidding??

I walked into a Chevy dealership today after my old truck was getting serviced for an alternador and la dee da, all the cars on the showroom floor were crossovers and compacts with 30+ mpg.  Looks like all the dealerships are starting to make adjustments.  Rather quickly too.

 

I've been seeing a hell of a lot more hummers lately though.  Pretty crazy.

 

I haven't had to adjust much.  I have only a 14  mile commute to work downtown and my S-10 pickup gets about 26 mpg highway.  Simple fix, eat out one less day each week to save money, and to also stay healthier.

 

I'm not sure high gas prices will be a big problem to me until they reach $6 or $7/gallon. 

Oh suburbanites

 

Move back to the city. Gas and other expenses are only going to get worse and most of you are already living above your means just so you can keep up with the Joneses.

 

If I were to be concerned about gas prices and wanted to shorten the length of my commute, I would move to the suburbs. Not everyone works downtown. I would like to see numbers on this - I bet most don't work downtown. Actually, in trying to think of someone I know on a personal/social basis that works downtown, it took me a bit to even think of 1 person...and even now, I can only think of a handful of people. My brother even bought a house in Cleveland a few years back to be closer to work...only to be transfered to the suburbs 9 months later.

 

But wouldn't someone feel real dumb if they moved to Westlake only to get a new job in Solon?  If they're in the middle, they can choose from either without it being too bad, not to mention the fact that there are more jobs within a quick hop of them Downtown than anywhere you might choose in any given suburb. That gives them more options.

3 fuel related postings in one:

I am in the "scooter community" .  I follow some nationwide forums to keep up on scooter news. Apparently many parts of the country are experiencing shortages of scooters this summer. Even my great local shop (Pride of Cleveland) does not have as much available right now. Orders are flying out the door. It seems like the smaller models are most popular -mine gets around 90 miles per gallon, so it is hard to feel the pain. 

 

Hopefully it is not just a fad and people see how much they can save, and what impact they have on the environment (if 4 stroke engine).

 

The other thing I am curious about-have any local companies/organizations implemented a flex schedule ie 4 in the office, one at home? Nationally I read about it some, but not much buzz here.  Any ohio trends?

 

Now a question about % of income used for fuel by state- of course rural areas take a hit and are feeling it the worst. For instance, who will they support for president  I wonder? will it stray from the usual?  Johnny boy hates choo choos, but what about now? How can you shoot down passanger rail at a time like this. Most small towns already have some infrastructure that could easily add passanger trains..If I were Obama I would storm the rural country by rail car, promosing to reentergize rail traffic!

Scooters can achieve over 125 MPG. My Yahama 49cc can achieve over 80 MPG, and I only did informal calculations when I was in middle-school...  I will be bringing mine up to Cinci to use; a moped shop is next to my workplace, so it'll be really convenient. The shop, near Xavier, is selling mopeds at a very fast pace!

 

A shop in Ashland (KY) last year was selling ATV's and dirt bikes at a very fast pace (90-95% of their sales were this), but this has reversed almost entirely to scooters and street bikes.

 

I talked to the owner of a very nice European moped (250cc) that went up to 90 MPH. Very, very nice looking and it achieves ~70 MPG and cost $6,000. He had to be put on a wait list for three months to have it ordered.

 

When I came to Lexington in 2003, I rarely saw bikes and mopeds used as general transport. Today, I can't go down a street without seeing one. It's a complete reversal!

The other thing I am curious about-have any local companies/organizations implemented a flex schedule ie 4 in the office, one at home? Nationally I read about it some, but not much buzz here.  Any ohio trends?

 

 

I know Hyland Software just implemented flex time for the summer.  Employees have the option of working 4 10hr days and taking the 5th off.

 

At Key, where I work, my division has implemented a work from home one day a week policy.

 

Neither are mandatory.

I know Hyland Software just implemented flex time for the summer.  Employees have the option of working 4 10hr days and taking the 5th off.

 

From everything I have heard, 10 hour days (and sometimes weekends) are the norm at Hyland Software anyways.

a moped shop is next to my workplace, so it'll be really convenient. The shop, near Xavier, is selling mopeds at a very fast pace!

 

Hey Seicer,

 

 

lol so true. I used to get upset now I do not as I may use it in the future

"but officer, it is only a moped, it can't go that fast (mine goes 65 plus MPH)"

"but officer, I know it is on the sidewalk, but it only a moped"

 

for the record, a moped is defined as having a motor AND pedals.

A scooter is a motorcycle with a step through frame. The state of OH sees it this way too (MC licence etc)

http://www.fool.com/investing/international/2008/06/10/why-you-should-embrace-4-gasoline.aspx

 

Why You Should Embrace $4 Gasoline

By Morgan Housel June 10, 2008

 

Everyone should want cheap transportation. Everyone should want to return to the days when filling up your automobile didn't incinerate your savings. Your 100-mile daily commute shouldn't consume half of your paycheck. You deserve better.

 

And that's exactly why you should embrace $4 gasoline.

 

More at link above:

has anyone seen the smart cars around (cleveland?) I have had 4 sightings in the last two weeks. At least two different ones. Ohio City and Clark Fulton nabes as well as on I 80. Where are people getting them,and where will they be serviced? It seems the gas mileage is not that great esp since some cars got that kind of mileage back in early 80s (spouse had a civic that got 50 mpg highway)

 

Last month in Valencia (spain) I saw them selling them out of little stores. It was real cute.  Those things were everywhere.

I know Hyland Software just implemented flex time for the summer. Employees have the option of working 4 10hr days and taking the 5th off.

 

From everything I have heard, 10 hour days (and sometimes weekends) are the norm at Hyland Software anyways.

 

True, though alot of the workers are hourly, so if they don't work the 5th day, they give up some overtime.

The smart car get 36 mpg combined hwy/city. That seems awfully low for something that small.

I know Hyland Software just implemented flex time for the summer.  Employees have the option of working 4 10hr days and taking the 5th off.

 

From everything I have heard, 10 hour days (and sometimes weekends) are the norm at Hyland Software anyways.

 

True, though alot of the workers are hourly, so if they don't work the 5th day, they give up some overtime.

 

Alot of construction contractors in the area are starting to offer the 4/10 work week as well.

If this isn't revolutionary, I don't know what is...

_______________

 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=aH3RLeiOZrxo&refer=canada

 

Retailers May Choose Local Suppliers as Oil Rises, PwC Says

By Ladka Bauerova

 

June 11 (Bloomberg) -- Global retailers may cut orders from China and India and source more goods locally in developed markets because of increased energy and transportation costs, PricewaterhouseCoopers said.

 

Companies from supermarket owner Tesco Plc to jeans maker Levi Strauss & Co. are forging partnerships with local producers to reduce shipping expenses, ease environmental concerns and improve quality, according to ``Global Sourcing: Shifting Strategies,'' a study by the consulting firm released today.

 

........

Great article. It almost makes me laugh. These a**holes are reaping what they've sown. Buy local! I dont remember the last time I've purchased something from a multinational corp (other than gas). It can be done.

In the summer of '79 on a weekend visit to Cleveland, I neglected to top off my tank on Friday night or Saturday. On Sunday I had a heck of a time finding a gas station that was open, and for a while I thought I was going to have to wait until Monday to head back to Fort Wayne.

 

That time around, there was talk of reenacting Sunday blue laws (no retail) to curb fuel use.

Great article. It almost makes me laugh. These a**holes are reaping what they've sown. Buy local! I dont remember the last time I've purchased something from a multinational corp (other than gas). It can be done.

 

Do you buy and Procter & Gamble products?  Hard to imagine a household without at least 1 P&G brand.

Current poll on CNN.com

 

Can you get by without a car?

Yes 14% 2835 

No 86% 17320 

Total Votes: 20155 

 

The smart car get 36 mpg combined hwy/city. That seems awfully low for something that small.

 

It's too tall. They have to make cars really tall today because of SUVs, and height (frontal area) really kills gas mileage at speed. Older cars are much lower.

has anyone seen the smart cars around (cleveland?) I have had 4 sightings in the last two weeks. At least two different ones. Ohio City and Clark Fulton nabes as well as on I 80. Where are people getting them,and where will they be serviced? It seems the gas mileage is not that great esp since some cars got that kind of mileage back in early 80s (spouse had a civic that got 50 mpg highway)

 

Last month in Valencia (spain) I saw them selling them out of little stores. It was real cute.  Those things were everywhere.

 

I've seen a few in Columbus. I love 'em. I know it kind of defeats the purpose, but I'd love a 4-seater.

peabody99, the Mercedes Benz dealership in Bedford sells and services Smart Cars (I think since mid-2007).

 

I remember meeting back in 2000 a German couple who were driving a Smart car around the U.S., and who had stopped in Cleveland to stay with some friends of mine. I believe that the MPG was fairly mediocre back then as well.  Hell, my 1999 Corolla gets similar mileage.

This car is not really about the mileage. It is about space usage for Euro's. We also didn't get the most fuel efficient engines (they don't have enough power for American roads). They are geared for good mileage in-city which is much harder to maximize than on the highway, without a hybrid powertrain.