Despite economic turmoil and a divisive political year, I wonder if the year of 2008 will be seen as a turning point for the city of Cincinnati. In the past year, we have seen construction begin on three projects that will change the landscape of downtown: the Banks, the Riverfront Park, and Queen City Square. We have seen the Gateway Quarter continue to emerge and Fountain Square gain more and more life. Dozens of restaurants and retail stores including IKEA and an expanded Kenwood Towne Center have opened. Two major conventions were held. The plans for a streetcar have continued to develop. Schools are improving, crime is remaining steady, and more people seem to be moving into the central core on both sides of the river.

 

Perhaps this doesn't merit it's own thread but I thought it would be a fun discussion to look back on our favorite parts of 2008, the challenges that lie ahead, and what hopes we have for the next year in the city of Cincinnati when we look back on December 30, 2009...

We need to get rail going, specifically streetcars.

 

 

I'd like to see:

 

- Rail

- Affordable condos in the CBD

- More rentals in the CBD

- Something done to connect the Banks with 3rd St.

^Streetcars will help with all four of those

Rail is the missing link at this point!  Everything else is trending in the right direction.

Construction begins on Phase 1a of the streetcar system, and planning begins in earnest on the connector and Uptown circulator routes.

Good thing Cincy got the Banks off the ground before the bottom fell out of the economy.  That is very fortunate.

 

I just hope that this economy doesn't put a dent in the progress just as the city might think it was getting close to a tipping point.

 

 

^I think when we eventually climb out of this economic crap-hole, we'll be able to look back and admire how well Cincinnati, and really city-centers in general weathered the whole ordeal.

 

Cincinnati is blessed to have many very, very large corporations call it home. These companies, like P&G, Macy's, Kroger, 5/3rd, Convergys etc... will be able to stand up and prop the whole regional economy up with them. Couple that with the on-going trend to live closer to where we play and work, and I think we'll all see Cincinnati come out of this mess just fine and poised for the inevitable upswing.

 

The real kicker is if we get the streetcar finished, or at least fast-tracked during the bad times. If it's up and running or close to it when the economy recovers then the sky's the limit for downtown, OTR, and the core in general.

 

My 2009 wishlist:

• Full funding found for the streetcars
  
• Continued success for 3CDC in all it's endeavor's
  
• Smooth construction for QC2 and The Banks
  

 

The Central Parkway development i.e  re-doing of the median, mulral art and SCPA progress has been an underrated development in this city.  As a bridge b/w CBD and OTR, it was looking very drap and now looks 10x better.  In 10 years, I want something in Broadway Commons.  A new city arean to replace that aging eyesore on the riverfront (which would create more riverfront space) is my answer.

A new city arena to replace that aging eyesore on the riverfront (which would create more riverfront space) is my answer.

 

That would be quite cool, but definitely won't happen for another 5-10 years.

^  I think a new arena would be nice...and it needs to happen sooner than later.  The current arena is over 30 years old.  Many cities larger and smaller have built or replaced arenas in the last decade.  Funding could come from a stimulus package along with everything else being requested.

 

I would like to see one surface lot in downtown torn up and built upon in 2009. I think apartment occupancy is running high downtown--maybe a new apartment building? 

 

Rail is the missing link at this point!   Everything else is trending in the right direction.

 

Except Broadway Commons.

1) Streetcar

2) Rehab all remaining buildings in OTR

3) Infill every vacant lot in OTR

 

 

we have seen construction begin on...Queen City Square

 

Infill every vacant lot in OTR

 

I have mixed feelings about Queen City Square. I would have preferred filling every vacant lot over one big skyscraper.

^  I think a new arena would be nice...and it needs to happen sooner than later.   The current arena is over 30 years old.  Many cities larger and smaller have built or replaced arenas in the last decade.  Funding could come from a stimulus package along with everything else being requested.

 

If a new arena is pursued, I'd like Cincinnati to bring in another professional team in the process.  I don't care if it's NBA, NHL, or MLS.  It would be nice to be a 3 sport city.  It's certainly not something we NEED, but exposure via pro sports raises awareness of the city on the national level.  New arenas are the major bargaining chip for luring in a pro team, so if you're going to build a new one anyway, it would be a good opportunity to add something the city is missing currently. 

 

 

My greatest hope for 2009 though, is to begin construction of the streetcar system.  A close second would be the announcement of a new light rail plan.

^ I'd prefer NHL over NBA any day ...

^Me too, but I'll take what I can get, depending on which franchise(s) is willing to move in that time frame.  MLS would be a distant third for me. 

Nobody watches NHL

Not on TV, but the NHL has excellent attendance numbers.  Also, I just like hockey better than basketball.

 

Rail is the missing link at this point! Everything else is trending in the right direction.

 

Except Broadway Commons.

 

the streetcar spur to walnut hills makes broadway commons developable

Nobody watches NHL

 

You're crazy ... but they watch the NBA? The NBA is dying. I think the NHL has a better outlook in comparison to the NBA. Sports fans appreciate salary conservativeness.

Another wish for 2009--for gas prices to go back up (maybe not to $4.00) so that the average person would seriously consider mass transit alternatives.  It is going to take more than the dedicated urban dweller to get the people in this region to think past their SUV.

Even if Cincinnati were to build a new arena we would be on a growing list of cities who have built new arenas and hoping for a professional team.  See Kansas City, Louisville, and Seattle to name a couple that come to mind right now.

Seattle??  They aren't building one which is why the lost the Supersonics to OKC.  KC hasn't landed a major league tenant, but they are getting more top concerts at Sprint arena than the US bank arena.  US bank arena is not state of the art anymore.  We need a new one to compete.

 

I don't think an arena has to have a major tenant to be successful (Although, I will admit it helps).  OKC didn't have a major tenant for 10 years, but they hosted more big concerts than they hosted with the old arena.

Having an arena in Broadway Commons would just exacerbate the tearing down of buildings in OTR and would make congestion/parking issues much worse in a dense area that needs to be protected against demolition. I doubt the city would want to pay for parking garages and that would be a huge eyesore with a garage trumping the Italianate buildings in the forefront. I bet Broadway Commons is pretty profitable the way it is with monthly parking or however they have it set up. It would probably be overpriced if the city/3CDC were to acquire it.

 

I don't really see the point in turning a plot of land next to a highway, into a park, either. People want to be around nature and not have to look at a loud prominent highway in front of them. If the city/county were to fund an arena, the amount of funds it would take could easily alternatively produce something like the residential and commercial phases of the Arena District in Columbus - which would be fantastic. It makes no sense to me, to turn it into an Arena when the one we have on the Riverfront really isn't that bad. It has a huge capacity. I don't think Cinci is a big enough market to support 2 successful arenas. I doubt they would get enough concerts/events booked to break even while Professional Team X isn't playing. If it comes to fruition and fails, it will just give Cincinnatians more to complain about - just as they did with the under-performing Bengals when Paul Brown was constructed; or the Freedom Center.

 

There's also the issue of Cincinnati Gardens which has been a colossal failure since we realized Cincinnati wasn't a big enough market for an NBA team in the 70s. If we're going with the Arena concept, we might as well work on Cincinnati Gardens. God knows Bond Hill needs the investment. I think that AMC theater is out of business now. Bond Hill is crime ridden and areas like Bond Hill and Avondale get overlooked by the city and developers, in terms of investment. The past 6-8 years, Cincinnati has been primarily concerned with OTR and downtown when These neighborhoods in the Central city have gone to hell with blight and high crime.

The Gardens just needs to be torn down in all honesty.  It is woefully inadequate by modern standards and can't compete with the other arenas in the market (Cintas Center, 5/3 Arena, Bank of Kentucky Center, US Bank Arena).  Cintas has lost a big share due to poor planning that has been picked up by the BOK Center.  5/3 Arena serves its purpose as an arena for UC and just about nothing more.  US Bank will eventually need to be replaced, but that should be the last thing this city allocates public money for (unless there is some sort of iron-clad guarantee that it will be filled with NHL or NBA team).

 

A great location would be that huge vacant area near the current Cincinnati Gardens.  You could tear that down and do some mixed use entertainment type thing similar to the Arena District in Columbus but to a smaller scale.  As David mentioned...Bond Hill could use some lovin' and there isn't a dire need for 3 sports complexes to be in a center city.

"There's also the issue of Cincinnati Gardens which has been a colossal failure since we realized Cincinnati wasn't a big enough market for an NBA team in the 70s."

 

Tell that to Oklahoma City

 

 

Bond Hill gets an "equally bad as Avondale" reputation, but this year they only had 1 homicide and by Sept they had 1/3rd the numbers of part 1 crimes.

"There's also the issue of Cincinnati Gardens which has been a colossal failure since we realized Cincinnati wasn't a big enough market for an NBA team in the 70s."

 

Tell that to Oklahoma City

 

OKC didn't already have MLB and NFL franchises.

 

Is there a metro as small as Cincy with all three major sports?

 

^Cleveland.

The Cleveland situation has been debated to no end on here so I won't reopen it except to say that while that may be true from an MSA perspective, no rational analysis would conclude that Cincinnati is a bigger market than Cleveland.

 

II think it's equally as bad, depending on the area. Crime is very clustered in Bond Hill. A lot of Bond Hill is either really sprawly - like near the country club and highway (75 and Norwood Lateral), or really dense and blighted.

 

Here's a picture of Bond Hill's 'Old Historic District' :

 

OKC didn't already have MLB and NFL franchises.

 

Is there a metro as small as Cincy with all three major sports?

 

Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Tampa, Minneapolis

 

Those are all roughly the same size cities/metros as Cincinnati, and all have 3 teams.

OKC didn't already have MLB and NFL franchises.

 

Is there a metro as small as Cincy with all three major sports?

 

Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Tampa, Minneapolis

 

Those are all roughly the same size cities/metros as Cincinnati, and all have 3 teams.

 

Tampa?! That's insane. I can understand Minneapolis.. they're at least over 3 million. Pittsburgh seems to get a lot of stuff comparable cities don't get. Apple stores and Banana Republics in their NBDs and stuff.

 

The Cleveland situation has been debated to no end on here so I won't reopen it except to say that while that may be true from an MSA perspective, no rational analysis would conclude that Cincinnati is a bigger market than Cleveland.

 

Trust me, I don't want to reopen it either.  But the populations are comparable.  At the very least, Cleveland's market isn't vastly larger than Cincy's.

 

 

Also on my wishlist for 2009 would be a big announcement for the 5th & Race site.

The Cleveland situation has been debated to no end on here so I won't reopen it except to say that while that may be true from an MSA perspective, no rational analysis would conclude that Cincinnati is a bigger market than Cleveland.

 

Trust me, I don't want to reopen it either. But the populations are comparable. At the very least, Cleveland's market isn't vastly larger than Cincy's.

 

 

Also on my wishlist for 2009 would be a big announcement for the 5th & Race site.

 

MSA's are based on driving patterns, last year Cincinnati's MSA passed up Cleveland's.

Cincinnati has a larger MSA, Cleveland has a larger city population, Cleveland has a larger media market.  Cleveland is still top dog in Ohio, but with the economic and population trends of late I'm not sure how much longer that will stand.  Maybe another 10 years is my guess.

Another wishlist item for 2009 would be a full-service downtown grocery store, and it is something that I think will happen without a doubt.

 

Oh yeah, the Ohio River Bike Trail continuation (or at least funding) would be another great item to achieve in 2009.

Cincinnati has a larger MSA, Cleveland has a larger city population, Cleveland has a larger media market.  Cleveland is still top dog in Ohio, but with the economic and population trends of late I'm not sure how much longer that will stand.  Maybe another 10 years is my guess.

 

Anecdotally, I've met more than a dozen young people who have moved from the Cleveland/Akron area to Cincinnati in the last few years, but I don't personally know anyone who's gone the other way (though I'm sure they exist).  So maybe there's something to what you're saying about population trends.  Oh, and for the record, I'm not hating on Cleveland.  I like that city and was raised a Browns fan.  Just sharing some personal observations.

I'll weigh in on the arena question. First, the Gardens isn't really a failure. It is actually a privately owned facility that makes money being a major hub for amateur hockey and the like. It remains a great place to watch a game. It is a shame that the Cyclones left and headed for dt and oblivion. The Robinsons' have put out a few plans over the years that would have seen a serious investment in the facility if a team was grabbed. Unfortunately, it is just too far from the highway these days. If we are talking about an arena for Bond Hill, there are two better spots that would be good, one is at the old movie theater along the Lateral and the other would on any of the crappy retail at the corner of Reading and Seymour.

 

As to Bond Hill's quality, it remains one of the premier middle class African-American neighborhoods in the city. It has had it's share of problems, but has some of the best housing stock in the city and the new neighborhood being built near the Gardens is quite nice. It has crime, but for formerly Jewish neighborhoods around the country, it is doing okay.

 

I'd rather see the Banks finished. In fact, if we end up with a longer term depression that we'd like, I could see a new facility built between the stadiums and then tearing down the U.S. Bank for development instead.

 

Wish list, an engine of economic stability for neighborhood business districts around the city.

I'd rather see the Banks finished. In fact, if we end up with a longer term depression that we'd like, I could see a new facility built between the stadiums and then tearing down the U.S. Bank for development instead.

 

Good lord lets hope that doesn't happen.

I'd like to see people that are actually interested in being on City Council for their entire term elected this year.  Even if they are term limited.

I'd like to see people that are actually interested in being on City Council for their entire term elected this year. Even if they are term limited.

 

Nice!  I love it!  :laugh:

Never gonna happen. This is about party control of council not the service of individual members. This way a new Dem will be able to run as an incumbent this fall.

Never gonna happen. This is about party control of council not the service of individual members. This way a new Dem will be able to run as an incumbent this fall.

 

Yeah seems to be standard practice. Tarbell did it, and I'm sure most every councilman will do it from now on.

Cincinnati is more than large enough to support three teams, particularly if that third sport is basketball in Southern Ohio.  In 2010, the media market should change as well.  Broadway Commons will remain a good idea, so why not try to attract a team?

As much as I am a Cincinnati supporter, put the NBA team in Kentucky with the stadium at the end of the streetcar line.  "the Kentucky Colonels"

Cincinnati is more than large enough to support three teams, particularly if that third sport is basketball in Southern Ohio. In 2010, the media market should change as well. Broadway Commons will remain a good idea, so why not try to attract a team?

 

I don't think Cincinnati is big enough yet to support 3 teams.  We need to gain more people in the metro area.  Pro teams in the big three sports (NFL, MLB, NBA)are very expensive to support finanacially in a smaller market like Cincinnati.  Hockey might be a possibility.  This is why places like Kansas City (nearly the same size as Cincinnati) build arenas and do not get a team to play in them.

 

That being said---I still think US Bank Arena needs to be replaced.  I am tired of looking at those rusty stairs leading up to the place.   

That being said---I still think US Bank Arena needs to be replaced.   I am tired of looking at those rusty stairs leading up to the place.  

 

I think the concourse and stairs are really the only thing that needs to be replaced w/ US Bank. Sure the arena's old, but it got a major facelift like 10 years go. It's not the newest or prettiest but it's functional. I'd like to think these big structures have useful lives longer than 30 or 40 years.

That being said---I still think US Bank Arena needs to be replaced. I am tired of looking at those rusty stairs leading up to the place.

 

I think the concourse and stairs are really the only thing that needs to be replaced w/ US Bank. Sure the arena's old, but it got a major facelift like 10 years go. It's not the newest or prettiest but it's functional. I'd like to think these big structures have useful lives longer than 30 or 40 years.

 

We competing with the newest and prettiest arenas.  US bank arena has had a functional life of 34 years now--longer than many arenas.  Could we live with it awhile longer?---yes.  But how do you  compete against the new arenas being built in major markets all around the US. A face lift is nothing more than a bandaid (I tried to resist any reference to lipstick on a pig.)  The only way I can see this scenario working is if all other cities stopped replacing their aged arenas.

Never gonna happen. This is about party control of council not the service of individual members. This way a new Dem will be able to run as an incumbent this fall.

Yeah, i know why they are doing it. I just feel that the voters are getting screwed by having a non-elected official sitting in for half of the term.

 

If we got a hockey team (NHL), i'd buy season tickets.