Look at Detroit.  4 pro sports teams downtown.... and a casino.... and really nothing else.

 

Look at Portland.  1 pro sport team and it is awesome. (the city not the trailblazers, I have no idea how good they are)

I think the concourse and stairs are really the only thing that needs to be replaced w/ US Bank. Sure the arena's old, but it got a major facelift like 10 years go. It's not the newest or prettiest but it's functional. I'd like to think these big structures have useful lives longer than 30 or 40 years.

 

We competing with the newest and prettiest arenas. US bank arena has had a functional life of 34 years now--longer than many arenas.   Could we live with it awhile longer?---yes. But how do you compete against the new arenas being built in major markets all around the US. A face lift is nothing more than a bandaid (I tried to resist any reference to lipstick on a pig.) The only way I can see this scenario working is if all other cities stopped replacing their aged arenas.

 

I agree that US Bank Arena is pretty good as is. While a new arena would be nice I'm not sure that it's the City's responsibility to build/fund a new one. If some ego-maniac wants to pony up the money, build an arena, and attempt to attract a pro team then fine. If not then I would leave it alone. There are better things to spend that kind of money on that fit within the government's responsibility (i.e. rail transit).

Look at Detroit.  4 pro sports teams downtown.... and a casino.... and really nothing else.

 

Look at Portland.  1 pro sport team and it is awesome. (the city not the trailblazers, I have no idea how good they are)

 

Detroit is twice the size of Cincinnati (both the city proper and the metro area) and Portland as a city is really just on the upswing in the last couple decades. It's not a historically huge city and it's MSA is right about the same as Cincinnati.

Look at Detroit. 4 pro sports teams downtown.... and a casino.... and really nothing else.

 

Look at Portland. 1 pro sport team and it is awesome. (the city not the trailblazers, I have no idea how good they are)

 

Detroit is twice the size of Cincinnati (both the city proper and the metro area) and Portland as a city is really just on the upswing in the last couple decades. It's not a historically huge city and it's MSA is right about the same as Cincinnati.

 

Sports teams alone aren't enough for a downtown.

Sports teams alone aren't enough for a downtown.

 

Detroit has quite a bit of business downtown.  the only thing that is really lacking is any sort of residential area.  All that is there is apartments and the lofts for the young professionals.  There are plenty of restaurants, bars, 8-5 businesses, etc that keep people busy.

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this.  Cincinnati doesn't need more sports teams? or Cincinnati has too many based on the population?

Sports teams alone aren't enough for a downtown.

 

Detroit has quite a bit of business downtown. the only thing that is really lacking is any sort of residential area. All that is there is apartments and the lofts for the young professionals. There are plenty of restaurants, bars, 8-5 businesses, etc that keep people busy.

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Cincinnati doesn't need more sports teams? or Cincinnati has too many based on the population?

Another team would be nice but it isn't the highest priority.  I was in Downtown Detroit this summer and I found it to be lacking in 8-5 business, virtually devoid of retail and with many fewer bars and restaurants than one would expect for a city of that size.

Another team would be nice but it isn't the highest priority. I was in Downtown Detroit this summer and I found it to be lacking in 8-5 business, virtually devoid of retail and with many fewer bars and restaurants than one would expect for a city of that size.

 

I agree that it's certainly not Cincinnati's highest priority.  But, since we started down this road when someone suggested that we replace US Bank Arena, I stand by the notion that IF we were going to build a new arena anyway, we might as well use that to bring another pro team to Cincinnati.  Since that's the big bargaining chip these days, it would seem wasteful to build a new arena without even trying to see what's available.

 

As for Detroit versus Portland, I'd argue that their differences in climate and transit systems are much bigger factors than the number of teams they possess.

Another team would be nice but it isn't the highest priority. I was in Downtown Detroit this summer and I found it to be lacking in 8-5 business, virtually devoid of retail and with many fewer bars and restaurants than one would expect for a city of that size.

 

I don't know where you were or when, or what you mean by the size of Detroit, but it is a very widely spaced city (if that makes sense).

 

Downtown has GM, Compuware, many law firms, accounting firms, etc.  Comerica recently moved their headquarters from there, but i believe they still have a large group in the downtown area.  Many of the suburbs are also more self-sufficient than other cities i know.  Southfield has developed into a pretty big financial area and many other suburbs exist around the auto plants.

 

as for bars and restaurants, well, i know of quite a few.  might have to go down to mexican town or cork town for some of them, campus martius has a bit of stuff (which is near the stadiums and Foxtown)

 

Yep, i'm a transplant from Detroit-metro and still spend significant amounts of time there.

Cincy is the biggest city (3 million) outside Seattle to not have an NBA team.  KC didn't get a team because the 2 million in the metro is all that's out there.  There's nothing around that city.

Cincy is the biggest city (3 million) outside Seattle to not have an NBA team. KC didn't get a team because the 2 million in the metro is all that's out there. There's nothing around that city.

 

 

3 million?  Only if Dayton is included.  Otherwise 2.2 million per the Census bureau.  Anyway.  I didn't mean for the arena to be the focus of this thread---It is a wish if mine.  I thought we were just brainstorming rather than justifying the merits of our pet projects.  *shrugs*

 

 

Also Seattle Doesn't have a team, and Tampa, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and San Diego are larger than Cincinnati and don't have teams.

Another team would be nice but it isn't the highest priority.  I was in Downtown Detroit this summer and I found it to be lacking in 8-5 business, virtually devoid of retail and with many fewer bars and restaurants than one would expect for a city of that size.

 

I don't know where you were or when, or what you mean by the size of Detroit, but it is a very widely spaced city (if that makes sense).

 

Downtown has GM, Compuware, many law firms, accounting firms, etc.  Comerica recently moved their headquarters from there, but i believe they still have a large group in the downtown area.  Many of the suburbs are also more self-sufficient than other cities i know.  Southfield has developed into a pretty big financial area and many other suburbs exist around the auto plants.

 

as for bars and restaurants, well, i know of quite a few.  might have to go down to mexican town or cork town for some of them, campus martius has a bit of stuff (which is near the stadiums and Foxtown)

 

Yep, i'm a transplant from Detroit-metro and still spend significant amounts of time there.

 

It is still substandard, and does not fare well in comparison to Cincinnati by any means.  For example, I wouldn't break Detroit downtown out into Foxtown, C-Mart, RenCen--those are all CBD.  Compared to the amount of businesses in Cinci's CBD, detroit fares poorly.  Other than Greektown, the bars and restaurants have difficulty generating any type of critical mass, other than listing from one "event" to another.  To another point, while detroit area law firms have traditionally wanted a "presence" downtown, that has eroded a lot in the past decade as they have migrated outward.  Likewise, Comerica's departure was a huge blow. 

 

 

But this is not new news.

 

Corktown is great, with Slows and Mercury, and a few other businesses sporadiaclly scattered about (Lager House, nemo's, LJ's  etc.), and a vibrant residential community.  But it is pretty scattered about (Zeitgeist gallery recently closed). 

 

Mexicantown has always been overrated in my eyes, other than Los Galanes and Evie's and a few hole in the wall taqueria's.  Lots of suburbanites hit the mediocre Xochi's et al. venues and don't blink twice before speeding home on a nearby freeway.

 

But its an apples and oranges thing.  Cinci has a wealth of neighborhoods with critical mass districts, replete with bars/restaurants etc., all within the city limits.  In Detroit, many of those neighborhoods are scattered outside the city limits.  Sad but true.

 

In detroit you need to know where to go...and when you find it...but when you do, it's like an amazing discovery on a post-industrial frontier...there's a real spirit that thrives in the most unusual places and spaces, and in the most difficult of times.  But it's not always visible whilst strolling down Woodward...and you often need a car to get to it. Hence...um...the nickname.

 

Anywho, I could say a lot more on this but taht's not the point.  welcome Detroit transplant.

It is still substandard, and does not fare well in comparison to Cincinnati by any means. For example, I wouldn't break Detroit downtown out into Foxtown, C-Mart, RenCen--those are all CBD. Compared to the amount of businesses in Cinci's CBD, detroit fares poorly. Other than Greektown, the bars and restaurants have difficulty generating any type of critical mass, other than listing from one "event" to another. To another point, while detroit area law firms have traditionally wanted a "presence" downtown, that has eroded a lot in the past decade as they have migrated outward. Likewise, Comerica's departure was a huge blow.

 

 

But this is not new news.

 

Corktown is great, with Slows and Mercury, and a few other businesses sporadiaclly scattered about (Lager House, nemo's, LJ's etc.), and a vibrant residential community. But it is pretty scattered about (Zeitgeist gallery recently closed).

 

Mexicantown has always been overrated in my eyes, other than Los Galanes and Evie's and a few hole in the wall taqueria's. Lots of suburbanites hit the mediocre Xochi's et al. venues and don't blink twice before speeding home on a nearby freeway.

 

But its an apples and oranges thing. Cinci has a wealth of neighborhoods with critical mass districts, replete with bars/restaurants etc., all within the city limits. In Detroit, many of those neighborhoods are scattered outside the city limits. Sad but true.

 

In detroit you need to know where to go...and when you find it...but when you do, it's like an amazing discovery on a post-industrial frontier...there's a real spirit that thrives in the most unusual places and spaces, and in the most difficult of times. But it's not always visible whilst strolling down Woodward...and you often need a car to get to it. Hence...um...the nickname.

 

Anywho, I could say a lot more on this but taht's not the point. welcome Detroit transplant.

 

You're right that Cincinnati compares very favorably.  I'm impressed with the number of businesses that have their HQs here.  The city does pretty well in that regard.  The CBD is also much more compact than in Detroit.  The entire city of Detroit is twice the size of Cincinnati.  The neighborhoods are much more split apart and are not as easily walkable as here in Cincy.  Campus Martius/Foxtown is easily walkable and it's not far to the RenCen (10-15 min).

 

The last decade really hasn't been that bad for the city.  Dennis Archer started the city back and it didn't do so bad under Kilpatrick (regardless of his other issues).

 

Anyway, this isn't the DetroitYes forum (an interesting read, fyi)...mostly i was wondering what was up with the comparisons between Cincinnati, Detroit and Portland (although i constantly hear the Cincy/Portland comparison)

Lets try to avoid turning this into a Cincinnati vs. Detroit (or wherever) thread.  Thanks.

Also Seattle Doesn't have a team, and Tampa, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and San Diego are larger than Cincinnati and don't have teams.

 

Seattle had NBA until this year, and will surely get the next expansion team.  They still have MLB and NFL.  Tampa, St. Louis, and Pittsburgh have NHL, in addition to NFL and MLB franchises.  San Diego and Baltimore have MLB and NFL, and while they are both larger than Cincinnati, they're also both right next to much larger cities (LA and Washington, DC) that have 4+ franchises each. 

Can we please get back to our wish list for Cincinnati?  I enjoy hearing the new ideas!  I SO regret ever suggesting US Bank Arena should be replaced. 

I would love to see a city wide streetscape initiative. Planting street trees, burring utilities, decorative sidewalks, and nice site furniture and lighting.

 

Our streetscapes are really lacking a cohesive look, and in many areas are very uninviting.

^  thank you!!!

I think a riverwalk would be great.  You could have it be on both sides of the river making a loop and crossing the Ohio via the Roebling Suspension Bridge and the Purple People Bridge.  It would be cool to have a couple of dock structures jutting out into the water for relaxation and viewing points.

 

Related to this kind of idea, it would also be cool to have water taxis of some sort or some type of cheap hourly boat rental where more people could get out and enjoy the river.

Dayton is right up the road from Cincinnati.  Once you leave the Cincy metro, you enter the Dayton metro.  This will change in 2010.  3 million is more than most of those cities being named off.  The point is, Cincinnati is a big city that could support an NBA team.  It's amazing how many Cincinnatians love to shrink this city even more than it already has.  If you don't think cincy could support a team, do you think Cleveland was thinking, "Oh shoot, we'll never get the Browns back...".  No, people stepped up and said, "This city is getting a team back, bottom line."  They pressed the issue.  Cincinnati refuses to, in a GREAT basketball region.  It smells like money to me, but...

I'd like Ohio to become a 'hot' place for movers and shakers as they abandon the god-forsaken coasts.

Dayton is right up the road from Cincinnati. Once you leave the Cincy metro, you enter the Dayton metro. This will change in 2010. 3 million is more than most of those cities being named off. The point is, Cincinnati is a big city that could support an NBA team.

 

Or, NHL ... ;)

It's not really an issue of 'Is Cincinnati big enough' ?. It's an issue of 'Do we really want to take on the burden of subsidizing a sports team for the sake of national recognition'? Major league sports teams are a profound burden on any city and they tend to be not very good revenue generators. It's mostly for vanity's sake. I think Cincinnati is very lucky to have the Reds - the first professional baseball team. The Reds are in the fine grain of the city's history.

I'd like to see people abandoning the exurbs for the City.

 

I'd like to see the City be able to take care of the core needs of the citizens before worrying about streetscapes (they're nice, but this next year is going to be ugly)

 

I'd like the county to accept a revision on the value of my house.

 

I would like to see one surface lot in downtown torn up and built upon in 2009. I think apartment occupancy is running high downtown--maybe a new apartment building? 

 

I think our best chance of that would be with an announcement of the 5th and Race site, no?

 

One thing I'd like to see downtown (obviously not necessarily in 2009) is a movie theater. Perhaps one is planned for the Banks, but I always thought it'd be unique to have sort of a movie tavern thing. You'd only have one or maybe two screens but instead of traditional stadium style seating, you'd have tables, chairs, sofas, a bar area, and you could serve typical bar food. It could then double as a bar after the movie is over or a place to watch big games or out of town Reds and Bengals games... Just my idea :)

The city center is growing.

 

#'s 3 and 4 in your list are major points.

The city center is growing.

 

Downtown, yes, but not the overall city limits. It's stagnant, though thankfully appears to have leveled off. We won't know fore sure if the bleeding has stopped until 2010.

 

Cincinnati is also growing.

The city center is growing.

 

Downtown, yes, but not the overall city limits. It's stagnant, though thankfully appears to have leveled off. We won't know fore sure if the bleeding has stopped until 2010.

 

Cincinnati is also growing.

 

Growing but slowly.

 

From 1950 to 2000

Cincinnati: -34%

Rest of Metro: 139%

^ I would like to add that all three states should agree on the boundary. 

I wish that I would gain more neighbors in 2009. 

^ I would like to add that all three states should agree on the boundary.  

 

Too many municipalities want development any way they can get it. Might work in Oregon but it's not going to work in the midwest.

portland had a 30 year UGB

What about converting some high-speed multi-lane one ways to two ways? I think there are way too many throughout the city.

I'm not entirely sold on the idea of converting the already narrow downtown Cincinnati streets to two-way streets.  I understand the benefits for a city like Columbus that has wide streets in need of traffic calming, but Cincinnati doesn't really have that problem from my experience.

I'm not entirely sold on the idea of converting the already narrow downtown Cincinnati streets to two-way streets. I understand the benefits for a city like Columbus that has wide streets in need of traffic calming, but Cincinnati doesn't really have that problem from my experience.

 

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I don't mind the one-ways, I think they're fine for handling traffic and we def. don't have the room for it.

I appreciate the feedback, but I never specified Downtown. There are plenty of examples outside of it though.

 

^Those streets would probably be good candidates.  I've been pushing for something to happen to slow down traffic along Calhoun Street.  A two-way conversion just might be it, but a streetcar with some curb bump outs might also work quite nice.

I appreciate the feedback, but I never specified Downtown. There are plenty of examples outside of it though.

 

 

Oh, my bad ... I think I was responding off someone else's post. ;)

I know Jake made a map showing possible Uptown streetcar routes, which suggested making Calhoun & McMillian two-way.  But would there be enough capacity if both roads were two-wayed?

^  I think a new arena would be nice...and it needs to happen sooner than later.   The current arena is over 30 years old.  Many cities larger and smaller have built or replaced arenas in the last decade.  Funding could come from a stimulus package along with everything else being requested.

 

I would like to see one surface lot in downtown torn up and built upon in 2009. I think apartment occupancy is running high downtown--maybe a new apartment building? 

 

I have heard this many times... does anyone have recent and reliable downtown rental/ vacancy data?

^ I think a new arena would be nice...and it needs to happen sooner than later.   The current arena is over 30 years old. Many cities larger and smaller have built or replaced arenas in the last decade. Funding could come from a stimulus package along with everything else being requested.

 

I would like to see one surface lot in downtown torn up and built upon in 2009. I think apartment occupancy is running high downtown--maybe a new apartment building?

 

I have heard this many times... does anyone have recent and reliable downtown rental/ vacancy data?

 

"The overall occupancy for the CBD rental community is 94.1%, with an average monthly market rate rent of $919/unit and $855/unit for all units including subsidized housing."

 

Source: 2007 State of Downtown Annual Report (pg. 16). Data gathered and analyzed by Colliers International.

http://downtowncincinnati.com/files/uploaded/StateofDowntown_2007.pdf

Thanks, Randy.  Anything regarding 2008?  There is a possible Class B/C office conversion that hinges on more current information.  (How about that for a dangled carrot...)

Well, DCI should be releasing their 2008 report fairly soon.  When that comes out I'll let you know, or you could try your luck contacting someone there to see if they can give you the information before the report is released (I'm assuming they have it already).

 

David Ginsburg

President and CEO

513.421.4440 x108

[email protected]

 

The rest of the staff contact information can be found here:

http://downtowncincinnati.com/contact/staff

Dayton is right up the road from Cincinnati.  Once you leave the Cincy metro, you enter the Dayton metro.  This will change in 2010.  3 million is more than most of those cities being named off.  The point is, Cincinnati is a big city that could support an NBA team.  It's amazing how many Cincinnatians love to shrink this city even more than it already has.  If you don't think cincy could support a team, do you think Cleveland was thinking, "Oh shoot, we'll never get the Browns back...".  No, people stepped up and said, "This city is getting a team back, bottom line."  They pressed the issue.  Cincinnati refuses to, in a GREAT basketball region.  It smells like money to me, but...

 

And with hope, the NBA can build its new arena in West Chester!

^UGH!

One way streets throughout fairview would be amazing

One way streets throughout fairview would be amazing

 

I would rather see us focus on resident parking permits in the area.  It would be awesome to be able to park in the vicinity of my house when I come home after 8pm.

Thats true as well..some nights i have to park in the fairview school parking lot because emming is all filled..even as early as 8

There's an abandoned house across the street from where I lived on Warner. A lot of people parked behind there. Luckily we had off street parking between our rear garage and the house. There's too many commuters not willing to pay for garage passes. They would park in front of our house even though there's a fire hydrant right there. I always told them you better hope to God my house doesn't burn down while you're parked there.

One way streets throughout fairview would be amazing

 

agreed