HUD's 2024 AMIs were released last month:

Source.

Edited May 9, 20241 yr by andrew0816
Edited to link to comment I was responding to

Thanks for finding the official doc... I am actually pleasantly surprised by the higher end of the range, though I am not sure what the expectations are for where most residents will fall within this range.  

All of the units are 30-80% AMI? That seems weird. I thought there was some market rate as well. 
 

I don’t think most McDonalds type jobs are giving 40hr weeks. I believe they are required to provide ACA benefits above 30 hours? 
 

I’m curious what percentage of our population actually falls into the 30-80 %. 

I’m a bit less confident that this development will be a transformative project that spurs more growth in the area and gets that BK site developed, but I guess density is density. 

20 hours ago, Henke said:

All of the units are 30-80% AMI? That seems weird. I thought there was some market rate as well. 
 

I don’t think most McDonalds type jobs are giving 40hr weeks. I believe they are required to provide ACA benefits above 30 hours? 
 

I’m curious what percentage of our population actually falls into the 30-80 %. 

I’m a bit less confident that this development will be a transformative project that spurs more growth in the area and gets that BK site developed, but I guess density is density. 

 

Yes, all of the units will be restricted with restrictions ranging between 30%-80% of AMI, which seems standard as this is a LIHTC project.

 

And for what it's worth, Cleveland's (city) median income is $37k per the US Census, so there's definitely a market for affordable housing.

Edited May 10, 20241 yr by andrew0816

I wrote my comment before reading the charts above and failed to realize that the # was 30-80 of AMI for the MSA and not the city. 

Right at the line between D-S and Ohio City

 

 

Urban Community School plans new athletic facility
By Ken Prendergast / May 17, 2024

 

When you’re in expansion mode, it’s a pretty good indication that you’re doing something right. Urban Community School’s (UCS) latest manifestation of it doing something right could soon appear at its growing campus where Cleveland’s Ohio City meets the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/17/urban-community-school-plans-new-athletic-facility/

^ finally — a new school building that actually looks modern and not like a prison. 

Only critique is the parking lot on the north side and not the south. Move the building to the Lorain Court corner.

Or at least put an entry or exit onto Lorain court or 46th place. The lot abuts 2 alleys but still has access only on 47th. That street is a mess at start and close of school with families walking everywhere. Having an access to that lot avoiding pedestrians is a no brainer. 

6 hours ago, mrnyc said:

^ finally — a new school building that actually looks modern and not like a prison. 

It looks like a modern prison.

1 hour ago, columbus17 said:

It looks like a modern prison.

 

at least it isn't beige on brown.

This forum is starting to sound like your average Franklin-Clinton Block Club meeting

 

Watterson-Lake development awarded financing
By Ken Prendergast / June 29, 2024

 

Key pieces of financing were awarded this week to a significant development planned on the south side of the intersection of Detroit and Lake avenues in Cleveland’s Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood. There, a 136-unit affordable housing project could see construction start by early next year on the site of the former Watterson-Lake Elementary School, 7407 Detroit Ave.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/06/29/watterson-lake-development-awarded-financing/

16 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Watterson-Lake development awarded financing
By Ken Prendergast / June 29, 2024

 

Key pieces of financing were awarded this week to a significant development planned on the south side of the intersection of Detroit and Lake avenues in Cleveland’s Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood. There, a 136-unit affordable housing project could see construction start by early next year on the site of the former Watterson-Lake Elementary School, 7407 Detroit Ave.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/06/29/watterson-lake-development-awarded-financing/

 

That new design looks great!  Now it's one of my favorite infill projects in the city.

welleon tour —

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C866ewFAH9R/?igsh=MWM2bjN0bW5hemM4OQ==

The Rite -Aid at 65th & Franklin will be permanently closing September 8th. That’ll be a pretty massive redevelopment site in the center of Gordon Square.

50 minutes ago, marty15 said:

The Rite -Aid at 65th & Franklin will be permanently closing September 8th. That’ll be a pretty massive redevelopment site in the center of Gordon Square.

 

So, I say this knowing that it's not the best use of space as is, but that's REALLY upsetting as a local resident who uses that as their local pharmacy. I can't tell you how many times having a pharmacy in the neighborhood has saved me in pinches, especially with a young daughter. Moreover, so many people walk there - for neighborhood residents, that's the only pharmacy in easy walking distance. 

 

I also don't want to get too tangential, but I've personally been in there at least 6-8x when there was a coordinated shoplifting effort, and I know they had trouble keeping managers at that location because of frustration with that issue (one even got into a physical confrontation with a shoplifter in one of those instances). 

Plus 1/4 of Walgreens are closings. Rx access is getting more and more limited by the second. 

 

30 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

So, I say this knowing that it's not the best use of space as is, but that's REALLY upsetting as a local resident who uses that as their local pharmacy. I can't tell you how many times having a pharmacy in the neighborhood has saved me in pinches, especially with a young daughter. Moreover, so many people walk there - for neighborhood residents, that's the only pharmacy in easy walking distance. 

 

I also don't want to get too tangential, but I've personally been in there at least 6-8x when there was a coordinated shoplifting effort, and I know they had trouble keeping managers at that location because of frustration with that issue (one even got into a physical confrontation with a shoplifter in one of those instances). 

I agree. It’s been so convenient having them in the neighborhood. Gonna be a big loss. It’s to the point that if you live on the west side, other than downtown and OHC, you have to go to Lakewood for everything. The pharmacy actually closes at the end of the month. The shelves in there are all pretty bare already.

Big loss. That pharmacy was far and away the most convenient.

Every 10-20 years or so, we go through a blitz of retailers over-building to try to corner the market on the next big thing. In the 1950s, it was gas stations. In the late-1960s and early 70s, it was convenience stores. In the 1980s, it was fast-food restaurants. In the 1990s, it was banks. In the 2000s, it was drug stores. Nowadays, it's urgent care centers. I hope these urgent care centers will help fill the void when it comes to pharmacies that these fading drug stores are leaving behind.

hopefully a development opportunity at some point. That site is a horrible use of land for that location.

That really sucks. My depressing guess is that the Family Dollar on Detroit closes and takes that spot. Or maybe we’ll luck out and have a Dollar General, Family Dollar, and Save A Lot all in the same neighborhood 🤞

51 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

That really sucks. My depressing guess is that the Family Dollar on Detroit closes and takes that spot. Or maybe we’ll luck out and have a Dollar General, Family Dollar, and Save A Lot all in the same neighborhood 🤞

The ills of gentrification.

7 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

So, I say this knowing that it's not the best use of space as is, but that's REALLY upsetting as a local resident who uses that as their local pharmacy. I can't tell you how many times having a pharmacy in the neighborhood has saved me in pinches, especially with a young daughter. Moreover, so many people walk there - for neighborhood residents, that's the only pharmacy in easy walking distance. 

 

I also don't want to get too tangential, but I've personally been in there at least 6-8x when there was a coordinated shoplifting effort, and I know they had trouble keeping managers at that location because of frustration with that issue (one even got into a physical confrontation with a shoplifter in one of those instances). 

It's a shame that the pharmacy model for the rest of the world doesn't work in the USA (Pharmacie, Apotek, etc).    Every neighborhood should have a small pharmacy shop where everything is health related and kept behind a counter where the store clerk or pharmacist has to get it for you. 

 

Unfortunately in the US the profits in a pharmacy chain are built on the sales of everything else (greeting cards, junk food, lawn chairs etc...) 

 

 

5 hours ago, Cleburger said:

It's a shame that the pharmacy model for the rest of the world doesn't work in the USA (Pharmacie, Apotek, etc).    Every neighborhood should have a small pharmacy shop where everything is health related and kept behind a counter where the store clerk or pharmacist has to get it for you. 

 

Unfortunately in the US the profits in a pharmacy chain are built on the sales of everything else (greeting cards, junk food, lawn chairs etc...) 

 

 

 

That's what Walgreens has been doing in the city and inner ring.   I know of at least three full stores (156th Lakeshore, Slavic Village, Maple Heights) that were replaced by what you describe.  I can't say for sure if they are still open, though.

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

That's what Walgreens has been doing in the city and inner ring.   I know of at least three full stores (156th Lakeshore, Slavic Village, Maple Heights) that were replaced by what you describe.  I can't say for sure if they are still open, though.

Really?  I don't think I've ever seen one?  

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

Really?  I don't think I've ever seen one?  

 

16100 Lakeshore in Cleveland

6401 Broadway in Cleveland

15500 Broadway (Libby and Broadway, where the old McDonald's was) in Maple Heights.

 

They are called "Walgreens Pharmacy".  Each replaced full stores in the vicinity.

Just now, E Rocc said:

 

16100 Lakeshore in Cleveland

6401 Broadway in Cleveland

15500 Broadway (Libby and Broadway, where the old McDonald's was) in Maple Heights.

 

They are called "Walgreens Pharmacy".  Each replaced full stores in the vicinity.

Actually glad to hear--will check one out. 

 

 

I know it's not an urbanist's dream, but it's definitely a blow to the NWS.  I guess everyone has to go to one of the pharmacies on W 117th now.  

 

I wonder if there is any chance Discount Drug Mart would move in?  I think their stores are normally bigger, but that would be a massively convenient addition to the area.  

Just now, ML11 said:

I know it's not an urbanist's dream, but it's definitely a blow to the NWS.  I guess everyone has to go to one of the pharmacies on W 117th now.  

 

I wonder if there is any chance Discount Drug Mart would move in?  I think their stores are normally bigger, but that would be a massively convenient addition to the area.  

Discount Drug Mart would be great, and there's no reason it couldn't be integrated into a larger development (except the local block club, which will absolutely not support such a development under any circumstances). The Madison CVS closing and now this closing have really eliminated a lot of amenities in the area.

Re: dollar stores. The city has a moratorium on new dollar stores being constructed within 2 miles of an existing discount store. https://www.clevelandcitycouncil.org/resources/news-media/new-limitations-building-new-dollar-stores-near-existing-ones

Rite Aid is leaving Ohio and Michigan, not just this store. I talked to the pharmacist and was told this location was the second most profitable location in all of Ohio.  I suspect another drug store may well take notice of that and snap up this property.   That said, its a total bummer.  I've been going to that store since the time there was also a CVS across the street. 

2 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Actually glad to hear--will check one out. 

 

 

 

The Marc's pharmacy at 22840 Lakeshore in Euclid looks to be a similar concept.  It also used to be a regular store.

2 hours ago, jws said:

Discount Drug Mart would be great, and there's no reason it couldn't be integrated into a larger development (except the local block club, which will absolutely not support such a development under any circumstances). The Madison CVS closing and now this closing have really eliminated a lot of amenities in the area.

Re: dollar stores. The city has a moratorium on new dollar stores being constructed within 2 miles of an existing discount store. https://www.clevelandcitycouncil.org/resources/news-media/new-limitations-building-new-dollar-stores-near-existing-ones

 

Ah, apparently HS lives on in spirit....

3 hours ago, gruver said:

Rite Aid is leaving Ohio and Michigan, not just this store. I talked to the pharmacist and was told this location was the second most profitable location in all of Ohio.  I suspect another drug store may well take notice of that and snap up this property.   That said, its a total bummer.  I've been going to that store since the time there was also a CVS across the street. 

 

Thank you. I came here to say this. It’s not because of shoplifting or any other issue. They are closing every Rite-Aid in 2 states. The Rite-Aids that I used to go to on a whim in Westlake and North Olmsted are already closed. It’s a huge blow to the neighborhood because so many of the residents who used that pharmacy walked there as they don’t own cars. Can we please not speculate that it is some shortcoming of the people, like myself, who live in the neighborhood and use that Rite-Aid at least twice a week for various items while also getting necessary medications, and just realize that it is an issue with the company as a whole? It will most likely sit vacant for a long time, which is just sad for everyone in the area. I hope that some investment happens sooner rather than later, but it’s difficult to repurpose a building like this without a demo and major overhaul of the site. 

^ when we moved over here to staten island we had a big plaza style rite aid by us so i immediately joined the club — and it immediately closed. it sits vacant ever since. i dk whats up with them? luckily i found a mom and pop here i’m very happy with.

Welleon’s Instagram page claims the building is nearly sold out with only a few units remaining. I think it’s been well less than a year since they first opened.  Seems like some kind of record for selling out. Especially such a large building.

Edited July 10, 2024Jul 10 by Htsguy

If the Rite Aid is a well performing store then my guess is another drugstore will take its place.

 

7 hours ago, jws said:

Discount Drug Mart would be great, and there's no reason it couldn't be integrated into a larger development (except the local block club, which will absolutely not support such a development under any circumstances). 

Why is that? Density? Parking? Gentrification? All of the above? I don't get why a block club would be given the power to shut down reasonable developments, especially since the City now has ordinances and initiatives in place to encourage better urban developments. 

 

  

Edited July 10, 2024Jul 10 by Rustbelter

7 hours ago, jws said:

Discount Drug Mart would be great, and there's no reason it couldn't be integrated into a larger development (except the local block club, which will absolutely not support such a development under any circumstances). The Madison CVS closing and now this closing have really eliminated a lot of amenities in the area.

Re: dollar stores. The city has a moratorium on new dollar stores being constructed within 2 miles of an existing discount store. https://www.clevelandcitycouncil.org/resources/news-media/new-limitations-building-new-dollar-stores-near-existing-ones

 

I love Discount Drug Mart (they save you the runaround, afterall). But they seem totally disinterested in locations within City of Cleveland proper.

12 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Welleon’s Instagram page claims the building is nearly sold out with only a few units remaining. I think it’s been well less than a year since they first opened.  Seems like some kind of record for selling out. Especially such a large building.

Looks like the following remains, I’d  they had an extremely successful spring seemed to lease out very quickly once spring came around. looking at what’s left aside from the penthouses all lake (expect 1) and downtown facing apartments are leased 
 

 

studios: 2 south, 1 west

1 bedrooms: 4 west facing, 1 south

2 bedrooms: 3 south facing

4 penthouses 

 

 

30 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Looks like the following remains, I’d  they had an extremely successful spring seemed to lease out very quickly once spring came around. looking at what’s left aside from the penthouses all lake (expect 1) and downtown facing apartments are leased 
 

 

studios: 2 south, 1 west

1 bedrooms: 4 west facing, 1 south

2 bedrooms: 3 south facing

4 penthouses 

 

 

Wow! Almost 90% already! Build another one at Lake & Detroit plz

4 hours ago, Boaty McBoatface said:

 

Thank you. I came here to say this. It’s not because of shoplifting or any other issue. They are closing every Rite-Aid in 2 states. The Rite-Aids that I used to go to on a whim in Westlake and North Olmsted are already closed. It’s a huge blow to the neighborhood because so many of the residents who used that pharmacy walked there as they don’t own cars. Can we please not speculate that it is some shortcoming of the people, like myself, who live in the neighborhood and use that Rite-Aid at least twice a week for various items while also getting necessary medications, and just realize that it is an issue with the company as a whole? It will most likely sit vacant for a long time, which is just sad for everyone in the area. I hope that some investment happens sooner rather than later, but it’s difficult to repurpose a building like this without a demo and major overhaul of the site. 

Exactly. Rite Aid is closing not only in OH and Michigan, but closing stores all over the country. My local Rite Aid at Olympic and Crenshaw in LA closed 5 months ago due to the company downsizing its locations. 

2 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Welleon’s Instagram page claims the building is nearly sold out with only a few units remaining. I think it’s been well less than a year since they first opened.  Seems like some kind of record for selling out. Especially such a large building.

 

That's pretty impressive, but Intro hit 90 percent leased before their official grand opening ceremony. Intro's a bigger building but commanded roughly the same rent per square foot ($3/SF).

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

That's pretty impressive, but Intro hit 90 percent leased before their official grand opening ceremony. Intro's a bigger building but commanded roughly the same rent per square foot ($3/SF).

Intro is also directly in the middle of OHC, across the street from the WSM, across the bridge from downtown. I’d say Welleon getting there this fast is much more impressive. 

15 hours ago, marty15 said:

Wow! Almost 90% already! Build another one at Lake & Detroit plz

The old Burger King plot and the used car lots between w49 and w52 pleaseeeeee. Also the land/buildings next to Guanaquitas, I have no idea what's going on there though. 

 

 

With a few more projects and bars/restaurants filling in spaces, the Gordon Square area has the potential to surpass Tremont and OHC as the "coolest" neighborhood to go to. If we can clean up and build on some of the area on Detroit from around W32 to W50 to better connect Hingetown and Gordon Square, you could have a 1.5-2 mile stretch filled with a growing population and businesses. 

49 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

The old Burger King plot and the used car lots between w49 and w52 pleaseeeeee. Also the land/buildings next to Guanaquitas, I have no idea what's going on there though. 

 

 

With a few more projects and bars/restaurants filling in spaces, the Gordon Square area has the potential to surpass Tremont and OHC as the "coolest" neighborhood to go to. If we can clean up and build on some of the area on Detroit from around W32 to W50 to better connect Hingetown and Gordon Square, you could have a 1.5-2 mile stretch filled with a growing population and businesses. 

If the Watterson-Lake project and the Walz Library/Karem Apts ever get built, all the sudden, the west end of Gordon Square will only have a small handful of empty lots left to develop. And in prime locations.

 

The east end, stretching into Hingetown is pretty disgraceful. Can’t believe there’s no plan to link GS with Hingetown with a comprehensive streetscape makeover. It’s current state is awful.

1 hour ago, marty15 said:

The east end, stretching into Hingetown is pretty disgraceful. Can’t believe there’s no plan to link GS with Hingetown with a comprehensive streetscape makeover. It’s current state is awful.

The stretch from around w32 to w54 feels like you shouldn't be there. It's similar to parts of Lorain where the sidewalk is so dirty and in such bad shape. Just like the bike lane on Detroit. 

 

It seems like an easy win to just clean it up a bit. I know all of the focus is on the Lorain Bikeway, but just making Detroit's nicer is another easy win. Most of Detroit out to w54 only has parking on one side of the street already, move the eastbound bike lane to the other side of the street and create another 2 lane bikeway that would eventually connect to the Public Square to e55 project. The westbound bike lane is already wide enough for traffic in both directions for most of this stretch. Then you would have a protected bikeway from e55 to at least w54, and the offshoot to Edgewater. 

Getting a little close to Ohio City here, but I’m assuming the land across from Kowalski’s is owned by the city - does anyone know if that was ever considered as part of the Shoreway blvd project? If that stretch of road wasn’t competing for world’s longest highway on ramp, it would be nice to have a small park right there

9 minutes ago, Henke said:

Getting a little close to Ohio City here, but I’m assuming the land across from Kowalski’s is owned by the city - does anyone know if that was ever considered as part of the Shoreway blvd project? If that stretch of road wasn’t competing for world’s longest highway on ramp, it would be nice to have a small park right there

I believe it's owned by the city, that's who is mowing the grass at least. It's kind of just an open greenspace/park currently, with no frills or anything. You'll see a lot of people on it with their dogs, and people playing catch or just sitting and watching the sunset sometimes. It's much wider than it looks from the road, especially the end near Bop Stop. 

 

2 years ago, when they put up the bike lane markers that were all destroyed within a month, they put some chairs, benches, and cafe style seats and tables on it between Bop Stop and w38. The people setting them up, I think it was that Graham and Marika who do a lot of things around Hingetown, said they were setting them up to see how much they would be used, and maybe more seating and other things would come next year. They removed them for the winter and they haven't been back since. The seating seemed to be used by a lot of people, I know I sat on a bench with my dog a few times. 

The North side of Detroit from the Bop Stop to Opa Gr is completely vacant. I know it gets really close to the Shoreway in places so building here is difficult, but I imagine something could be done, maybe apartments with some pocket retail. It's probably easier if the narrow sections are developed as part of a larger development including at least some of the more manageable depth portions, that way the core building functions (elevators, HVAC, etc) can be handled where there's more room, and narrow sections can basically be a hallway with rooms. 

 

I might be the most pro park person on this forum, but I can't see this area ever being a decent park unless the Shoreway is dieted or closed, which isn't in the near future. Build something there and hide the Shoreway with a nice urban canyon. That would help make it feel like a complete street with a built out urban connection to Gordon Square.