February 18Feb 18 Word is that Watterson Lake is on the agenda for design review Wednesday, and might go back to Landmarks in the coming weeks. The NIMBYs are already out in full force. Hope they don’t kill this project for badly needed affordable housing on the near west side.
February 19Feb 19 4 hours ago, noname said: Word is that Watterson Lake is on the agenda for design review Wednesday, and might go back to Landmarks in the coming weeks. The NIMBYs are already out in full force. Hope they don’t kill this project for badly needed affordable housing on the near west side. When/where is this and is public comment (or even just public attendance) allowed? My friend lives a few houses down the street from this, and I know theyve been wanting this to get built for a while, as do I. So if there are going to be NIMBYs, I want to let her know so she can show up and give a voice in favor for this, from people who literally could see this development from their house. Edited February 19Feb 19 by daybreaker
February 21Feb 21 On 2/18/2025 at 7:31 PM, daybreaker said: When/where is this and is public comment (or even just public attendance) allowed? My friend lives a few houses down the street from this, and I know theyve been wanting this to get built for a while, as do I. So if there are going to be NIMBYs, I want to let her know so she can show up and give a voice in favor for this, from people who literally could see this development from their house. Submit public comment to [email protected] or show up Thursday Feb 27 in Room 514 City Hall. I think they also have a virtual option if you request a link using that email.
February 27Feb 27 The Watterson Lake project is an interesting conundrum to me. I'm 100% for it (we desperately need more affordable housing), but as someone who doesn't live in the neighborhood it's interesting and sobering to hear the community's discourse and comments regarding the scope and scale of the project. To their credit they want to see the project built - just not in its current form. I feel that some of their concerns are valid regarding the public realm, especially the park. The concerns about the traffic I feel are not warranted - and that was mostly proven by further questioning. It's going to be really interesting to see how it progresses from here because it appears that the RFP from the city and the competitive state tax credits awarded mean it's almost impossible to reduce the actual capacity/units of the project without losing some funding. Trying to maintain the number of units while also expanding the public park space to something better than a glorified pocket park as almost everyone who commented wants to do is quite a tall order given the site layout. Trott mentioned maybe going even higher on Detroit rather than the current uniform 5 story building and I'm inclined to agree. Stepping back would force a taller Detroit frontage which I certainly wouldn't complain about. The question is that would a taller building fly with the community? I'm not sure. It certainly could increase costs even further. It was made abundantly clear that commission members are concerned that projects like this in historic neighborhoods are getting to the third+ time addressing landmarks and there are still concerns from the community about the project. Maybe it's their own fault, maybe it can be attributed to NIMBYism masquerading as "neighborhood progress but only if it meets the status quo", maybe there are some procedural issues with the way RFPs are handled and then landmarks is forced to arbitrate whether the RFP meets "community guidelines". I'm not sure. Word vomit over. Interesting stuff to consider.
February 27Feb 27 It got approved at Landmarks this morning, BTW. Article coming. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 27Feb 27 What an incredibly frustrating watch. Can’t wait for Jenny Spencer to get out of the neighborhood’s way. Especially when she notes that only 2 responses were received to the RFP! Be a good partner and stop making your developers jump through so many hoops. They’re clearly not lining up to work here. She and the commission can say “the public” all you want, but there are 11,000 people who live here and when a couple dozen weigh in to complain it’s not representative of the community at large. And as noted by Strickland around 2:50, these individuals don’t speak as one voice. When you reduce parking to make more green space, you’re still making someone unhappy. It’s an unproductive way to take feedback and misrepresents the will of the neighborhood. From my point of view the complaints seem to be about the density. People who don’t like density are never going to speak in support of a project like this, even if it’s a story shorter, and it’s frustrating that they can keep nitpicking to incur so many different revisions. On (abundant, nearby) parks: - Edgewater Park (.4 mi to ped tunnel) - Herman Park (.6 mi) - Franklin Pocket Park (.5 mi) - Miriam Ortiz-Rush Park (.4 mi) - Green Space in Battery Park by Terrestrial (.4 mi)
February 27Feb 27 As long as it got approved I’m happy! I live in the neighborhood, and it is a desperately needed project.
February 27Feb 27 Watterson-Lake Apartments design approved By Ken Prendergast / February 27, 2025 Efforts by city officials to repopulate Cleveland neighborhoods don’t always go smoothly when residents and community officials have gotten used to not having people, density and activity around for decades. But a mixed-use project intended to restore some of that urbanity got approved today by the Landmarks Commission in a contentious meeting. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/02/27/watterson-lake-apartments-design-approved/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 28Feb 28 The site plan looks good. It adds density to Detroit and a few retail spaces. Thumbs up. Regarding the want to "step down" on the southern portion, looks to me it does that already with the greenspace, parking lot, and 2 story townhomes.
February 28Feb 28 Seriously, why does ANY project in the city have to have public spaces? Since when? All the beautiful apartment buildings from the 1910-20’s didn’t need them. Edgewater Park is a direct 5 minute walk from this. Also, why the prison bar balconies fronting Detroit while the units on 74th get real balconies? They look like s**t. PUT REAL BALCONIES ON DETROIT PLZ. All in all, I hope this gets built stat before the tariff war kills everything and it’s 2008 again.
February 28Feb 28 10 hours ago, marty15 said: Seriously, why does ANY project in the city have to have public spaces? Since when? All the beautiful apartment buildings from the 1910-20’s didn’t need them. Edgewater Park is a direct 5 minute walk from this. Also, why the prison bar balconies fronting Detroit while the units on 74th get real balconies? They look like s**t. PUT REAL BALCONIES ON DETROIT PLZ. All in all, I hope this gets built stat before the tariff war kills everything and it’s 2008 again. True why a public park there in between the apartments and townhomes? Will it invite unintended loitering, drug traffic, unhoused persons overnight camping? the prison bars seem like an answer to the building abutting the lot line and sidewalk as couldn’t have balconies with stuff falling on pedestrians. Not sure why they couldn’t take some space from the pocket park and give the front setback of the building breathing room from the sidewalk and busy street (and add real balconies). otherwise seems like a worthy project too fill in this gap with new life.
February 28Feb 28 39 minutes ago, Willo said: True why a public park there in between the apartments and townhomes? Will it invite unintended loitering, drug traffic, unhoused persons overnight camping? the prison bars seem like an answer to the building abutting the lot line and sidewalk as couldn’t have balconies with stuff falling on pedestrians. Not sure why they couldn’t take some space from the pocket park and give the front setback of the building breathing room from the sidewalk and busy street (and add real balconies). otherwise seems like a worthy project too fill in this gap with new life. Balconies overhanging the sidewalk on commercial buildings on Madison in Lakewood is a common thing. I don’t think it’s ever been viewed as a problem.
March 1Mar 1 12 hours ago, Willo said: True why a public park there in between the apartments and townhomes? Will it invite unintended loitering, drug traffic, unhoused persons overnight camping? I believe the new zoning code requires publicly accessible common spaces for buildings over a certain number if units. My biggest complaint on the layout is the parking lot off 75th. Wish they put more townhomes hear to create a streetscape and did way with some parking. But I'm sure there were plenty of screams about 'MuH pArKiNg.'
March 1Mar 1 32 minutes ago, Rustbelter said: I believe the new zoning code requires publicly accessible common spaces for buildings over a certain number if units. My biggest complaint on the layout is the parking lot off 75th. Wish they put more townhomes hear to create a streetscape and did way with some parking. But I'm sure there were plenty of screams about 'MuH pArKiNg.' Doesn’t the urban overly make that suggestive? I’d also be fine if they were convinced to go taller on Detroit. Let’s go 9-10 floors and set a new standard of what’s going to happen at that prominent intersection.
March 1Mar 1 12 hours ago, marty15 said: Doesn’t the urban overly make that suggestive? I’d also be fine if they were convinced to go taller on Detroit. Let’s go 9-10 floors and set a new standard of what’s going to happen at that prominent intersection. Unfortunately everything after 5 floors changes your construction type, for a project like this it’s just not feasible.
March 5Mar 5 On 11/7/2024 at 10:51 AM, KJP said: Just heard this morning. It's a go. All these lots have been cleared of all brush, vegetation, and have been securely fenced off. Is this going to be the staging area for Shoreway tower? Or should we expect more big news for the neighborhood?
March 5Mar 5 Was surprised to see this corner lot being cleared at the corner of W 65th and Father Caruso Dr. Don't recall hearing anything about something going there. Seems like there was an old garage or similar small structure there before, and it is almost gone. Also, it's been a while since I've walked down Breakwater, but I don't recall seeing this equipment there before ... maybe the first sign of impending demolition? 🤔
March 5Mar 5 36 minutes ago, Paul in Cleveland said: Was surprised to see this corner lot being cleared at the corner of W 65th and Father Caruso Dr. Don't recall hearing anything about something going there. Seems like there was an old garage or similar small structure there before, and it is almost gone. Also, it's been a while since I've walked down Breakwater, but I don't recall seeing this equipment there before ... maybe the first sign of impending demolition? 🤔 I have a vague recollection of whatever is going in on that corner before Planning Commission and I think also before Board of Zoning Appeals. I think the curb cut was one topic of discussion as well as the set back.
March 5Mar 5 @Paul in Cleveland West 65th and Father Caruso is going to be townhomes with construction costs of about a $1 million. Wonder what the asking prices will be? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 5Mar 5 Yep it’s going to be four high-end townhomes. Construction costs (at least for unit D) are north of 1M. One of my good friends lives next door and has heard two units are already reserved, and the other two will be priced around 1.5M - 1.6M.
March 7Mar 7 On 3/5/2025 at 3:13 PM, surfohio said: Party at Gomez’ place! Gomez Addams? If so, fun family
March 9Mar 9 On 3/4/2025 at 7:11 PM, marty15 said: All these lots have been cleared of all brush, vegetation, and have been securely fenced off. Is this going to be the staging area for Shoreway tower? Or should we expect more big news for the neighborhood? CPP was rerouting power lines around the building site Friday. Temp power pole has been set up where the job trailers will likely be staged. Shouldn’t be long before dirt is moving!
March 9Mar 9 Yes, site prep work is getting underway. Still no construction permit though. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 9Mar 9 Are you aware of any plans for that strip of empty lots? I know there’s been plans in the past, but maybe as a next phase after the Tower? With renovated homes the next street over on 76th selling for $600-700k you’d think it’d be a no brainer for whoever controls that site.
March 9Mar 9 Not aware of any plans. Since they're apparently using that site for construction offices and setup, it will probably be a while before we hear anything permanent for that spot. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 10Mar 10 Lake Ave townhomes (3-9-25) The Equinox CLE townhomes Edited March 10Mar 10 by sonisharri
March 13Mar 13 First windows on The Vantage ... and there is definitely demolition happening on the south side of Breakwater! 🎉
March 19Mar 19 NW Neighborhoods is taking steps to develop a trail at Herman Park. There is, of course, a survey which is available here: nwneighborhoods.com/herman
March 19Mar 19 16 minutes ago, Henke said: NW Neighborhoods is taking steps to develop a trail at Herman Park. There is, of course, a survey which is available here: nwneighborhoods.com/herman I believe this is an abandoned rail spur.
March 20Mar 20 Next apartment project at Detroit & Lake plannedBy Ken Prendergast / March 20, 2025 The next new apartment building at the intersection of Detroit and Lake avenues in Cleveland’s Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood is already in the works. But it’s planned to be quite a bit smaller than its to-be neighbor across West 75th Street. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/20/next-apartment-project-at-detroit-lake-planned/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 20Mar 20 4 minutes ago, KJP said: Next apartment project at Detroit & Lake planned By Ken Prendergast / March 20, 2025 The next new apartment building at the intersection of Detroit and Lake avenues in Cleveland’s Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood is already in the works. But it’s planned to be quite a bit smaller than its to-be neighbor across West 75th Street. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/20/next-apartment-project-at-detroit-lake-planned/ Short and more than likely generic. I'm all for infill but along a main road I would like it to be 2 stories taller at least. I like that it isn't an extremely wide mega building though. This would fit perfectly if there were traditional 2 story Cleveland buildings surrounding it like these.
March 20Mar 20 Quote Indigo Cafe Powered by Unbar, and Coyocan Taqueira & Brew This is the first time I've seen specific names for retail in the Watterson-Lake apartment plans. A coffee shop, and tacos and beer? Sign me up! Looks like both of these have locations in Shaker Square that just opened as well. I'm hoping all this new housing also inspires someone to buy/lease those two empty restaurants across the street as well.
March 20Mar 20 Happy to see something filling up a lot, but this is in the form based code region and is designed to be as high as 5 stories. Kind of bearish for the neighborhood that they are only building 8 units. Hopefully this ends up in the hands of a more ambitious developer. And somehow these 8 units are causing people on Facebook to lose their minds… Regarding the parcels across the street, I would be incredibly disappointed if the “restaurants” were leased and reopened. It’s an embarrassing gateway into the neighborhood
March 21Mar 21 Kind of surprised to see this proposal. Figured a developer would try to obtain the adjacent parcels to build something more substantial, and even then this site would still be awkward. Hoping something happens with the Burger King site and the gas station site sooner rather than later. This could be a cool intersection if done right. As an aside, the article mentions the developer's other project at Detroit & 40th got NIMBY pushback for height....at a whopping 7 stories. Amazing🙄
March 21Mar 21 On 3/20/2025 at 9:35 AM, KJP said: Next apartment project at Detroit & Lake planned By Ken Prendergast / March 20, 2025 The next new apartment building at the intersection of Detroit and Lake avenues in Cleveland’s Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood is already in the works. But it’s planned to be quite a bit smaller than its to-be neighbor across West 75th Street. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/20/next-apartment-project-at-detroit-lake-planned/ I am a little suspect of this developer. Their project on Lorain was ordered to stop work I believe for work without permits and has been in progress the last 4+ years for a very small building. Unsure they have the ability to finance and complete a new build of this size, even if it's relatively small. We shall see!
March 21Mar 21 Looks like the Rite Aid will become a Goodwill. Not the most exciting use of the space, but I’m glad to see Spencer was quick to get it filled. I think I cropped her out, but this is from her Facebook page:
March 21Mar 21 22 minutes ago, Henke said: Looks like the Rite Aid will become a Goodwill. Not the most exciting use of the space, but I’m glad to see Spencer was quick to get it filled. I think I cropped her out, but this is from her Facebook page: I actually like the use of it as a goodwill. I feel like this won't stop it from being redeveloped into something larger in the future and it is something that can be useful to the entire community.
March 21Mar 21 2 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: I actually like the use of it as a goodwill. I feel like this won't stop it from being redeveloped into something larger in the future and it is something that can be useful to the entire community. Agree. Retired exurbanite here and my wife and I have made many outings into Cleveland to eat somewhere interesting and dig through thrift stores. This gives us another destination in Detroit-Shoreway.
March 21Mar 21 6 hours ago, Henke said: Looks like the Rite Aid will become a Goodwill. Not the most exciting use of the space, but I’m glad to see Spencer was quick to get it filled. I think I cropped her out, but this is from her Facebook page: Crap, I was hoping to drop that tiny bomb after I got back from vacation. Oh well. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 24Mar 24 Goodwill to open at Gordon Square Rite Aid site By Ken Prendergast / March 24, 2025 On Friday, Ward 15 Councilwoman Jenny Spencer shared on her Facebook page a letter to the community from Goodwill Industries that they will open this summer a store at 6512 Franklin Blvd. in Cleveland’s Gordon Square neighborhood. The location is a former Rite Aid drug store that closed in August 2024. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/24/goodwill-to-open-at-gordon-square-rite-aid-site/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 25Mar 25 On 3/24/2025 at 2:24 PM, KJP said: Goodwill to open at Gordon Square Rite Aid site By Ken Prendergast / March 24, 2025 On Friday, Ward 15 Councilwoman Jenny Spencer shared on her Facebook page a letter to the community from Goodwill Industries that they will open this summer a store at 6512 Franklin Blvd. in Cleveland’s Gordon Square neighborhood. The location is a former Rite Aid drug store that closed in August 2024. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/24/goodwill-to-open-at-gordon-square-rite-aid-site/ .... I don't love this...
March 25Mar 25 On 3/21/2025 at 1:08 PM, MyPhoneDead said: I actually like the use of it as a goodwill. I feel like this won't stop it from being redeveloped into something larger in the future and it is something that can be useful to the entire community. Ya this feels like the best case scenario for now. I'm surprised it was filled so quickly. This would be a perfect site for another Medley type development with apartments over a small/medium grocery store and another retail space or 2. Maybe the Goodwill sticks around in one of them.
March 25Mar 25 32 minutes ago, YABO713 said: .... I don't love this... Knowing her, one wonders what she might have blocked from going in there...
March 25Mar 25 36 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Knowing her, one wonders what she might have blocked from going in there... I just got some more details from her. Apparently the family who owns the parcel was not interested in selling, so no development opportunities were considered. Here is her note to the Franklin block club to explain the process (I removed the first paragraph which just discusses Goodwill’s operations): I spent many months corresponding with the Dallas TX-based Zahler family who owns the property. Decades ago, the Zahlers bought up former Pick-N-Pays, including 6512 Franklin. They no longer live in Cleveland but maintain their property portfolio here. I heavily advocated for a pharmacy or grocery user, as well as for Neighborhood Family Practice, but to shield themselves from a sizeable tax burden the Zahlers refused to consider any for-sale offers and would only consider leasing the space. To my knowledge, Goodwill is the only entity/operator who put together a viable lease offer, which was negotiated over the course of several months. During my due diligence while the property was empty, I consulted with brokers as well as multiple local grocery/pharmacy operators. Both Marc's and Discount Drug Mart (DDM) affirmed that the floor plate (square footage) of the building was too small for their business model. In addition, DDM described challenges with the pharmacy industry which hinders any potential plans for expansion. Experienced commercial brokers confirmed that national chains such as Aldi's or Trader Joe's would not take a look at this property. Aldi's already operates two miles away, and Trader Joe's requires much higher incomes for their trade area. It has been a journey. Based on their consistent communications thus far, I am reassured that Goodwill will be a good partner to the neighborhood. They have also offered to come out and meet with community groups, if desired.
March 25Mar 25 Man. This should really squash the TJ talk in Cleveland for awhile. sounds like we’re nowhere close income wise.
March 25Mar 25 1 hour ago, noname said: Man. This should really squash the TJ talk in Cleveland for awhile. sounds like we’re nowhere close income wise. What is TJ talk? What does TJ stand for?
March 25Mar 25 Just now, MyPhoneDead said: What is TJ talk? What does TJ stand for? Trader Joe’s - sounds like they dissed us lol
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