March 25Mar 25 1 hour ago, noname said: Man. This should really squash the TJ talk in Cleveland for awhile. sounds like we’re nowhere close income wise. Yeah - if there was a part of the city that might be flirting with the socioeconomic conditions needed, it would be OC/DS
March 25Mar 25 11 minutes ago, YABO713 said: Yeah - if there was a part of the city that might be flirting with the socioeconomic conditions needed, it would be OC/DS This is probably on the wrong end of DS though. To the east is an influx in income. To the west, the exact opposite.
March 25Mar 25 I'm personally not interested in goodwill but it sounds like an effort was made to find a better fit. I'd have to imagine grocery stores wouldn't want to be right next to a school either. Tons of issues with snacks being stolen and loitering. There's tons of room for demolition of old homes and buildings along Lorain. Hopefully in time a larger format grocery store will make sense as the southern portion of the neighborhood becomes more desirable.
March 25Mar 25 4 minutes ago, KFM44107 said: This is probably on the wrong end of DS though. To the east is an influx in income. To the west, the exact opposite. Retailers/brokers aren’t just looking at the immediate surroundings to determine where to put a location. They’re also looking at income/demographics within a 15-20 minute drive, other competitive retailers in the area, access to regional freeways, etc. This site unfortunately does not benefit from these metrics. It has no freeway access, and its neighbor to the north is the lake which is going to skew the population when you draw a big circle around it.
March 26Mar 26 I think people lose sight of how far off we are from cities with more prosperous urban economies and neighborhoods. National retailers are pretty dang good at understanding where their stores will be viable. If TJ's passed on the Lucky's site then I think a TJ's anywhere in city limits is a pipe dream for the foreseeable future. I wonder if our outgoing council member still thinks there is a surplus of "luxury housing" in this area when the only tenant we can find for a commercial property in the middle of the neighborhood is a thrift store.
March 26Mar 26 31 minutes ago, ML11 said: I wonder if our outgoing council member still thinks there is a surplus of "luxury housing" in this area when the only tenant we can find for a commercial property in the middle of the neighborhood is a thrift store. Great point. I wonder what the incoming candidates think?
March 26Mar 26 The neighborhood isn't going to have any trouble attracting more retailers in a few short years. A recap of what's coming: Herman Park: 135 units Breakwater: 193 units (includes for sale units) Shoreway Tower: 110 units W.73rd: 194 units Watterson-Lake: 136 units In addition to major developments, numerous rehab and smaller infill projects (for sale) are happening on nearly every street in Gordon Square. Per capita income is rising significantly - an increase that was almost unimaginable just two or three years ago. Edited March 26Mar 26 by Clefan98
March 26Mar 26 Definitely a lot to be optimistic about! Although I would put 73rd street in the Westinghouse category - we will see if/when that comes to fruition. There are a few other things that might pop up too - HKM was sold to developers in 2020 and in March of 2023 @zbaris87 mentioned a project on Detroit that was Welleon-scaled, although I haven’t heard much since. I also have my fingers crossed that we see someone revisit 8400 Lake!
March 26Mar 26 34 minutes ago, Henke said: Definitely a lot to be optimistic about! Although I would put 73rd street in the Westinghouse category - we will see if/when that comes to fruition. There are a few other things that might pop up too - HKM was sold to developers in 2020 and in March of 2023 @zbaris87 mentioned a project on Detroit that was Welleon-scaled, although I haven’t heard much since. I also have my fingers crossed that we see someone revisit 8400 Lake! Is West 73rd the Horten Harper designed project? I thought that was officially dead even though it received final approval and the developer was trying to sell the property.
March 26Mar 26 54 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Is West 73rd the Horten Harper designed project? I thought that was officially dead even though it received final approval and the developer was trying to sell the property. It is the HH project. I included it on the list because, while the land is currently for sale, development is imminent over the next few years.
March 27Mar 27 5 hours ago, Clefan98 said: The neighborhood isn't going to have any trouble attracting more retailers in a few short years. A recap of what's coming: Herman Park: 135 units Breakwater: 193 units (includes for sale units) Shoreway Tower: 110 units W.73rd: 194 units Watterson-Lake: 136 units In addition to major developments, numerous rehab and smaller infill projects (for sale) are happening on nearly every street in Gordon Square. Per capita income is rising significantly - an increase that was almost unimaginable just two or three years ago. You forgot to add the perpetually delayed Walz Library/Karem Apartment Complex. I don’t believe it’ll ever happen at this point. We’re on like 6 years of groundbreakings.
March 27Mar 27 On 3/25/2025 at 4:17 PM, Henke said: I just got some more details from her. Apparently the family who owns the parcel was not interested in selling, so no development opportunities were considered. Here is her note to the Franklin block club to explain the process (I removed the first paragraph which just discusses Goodwill’s operations): During my due diligence while the property was empty, I consulted with brokers as well as multiple local grocery/pharmacy operators. Both Marc's and Discount Drug Mart (DDM) affirmed that the floor plate (square footage) of the building was too small for their business model. In addition, DDM described challenges with the pharmacy industry which hinders any potential plans for expansion. Experienced commercial brokers confirmed that national chains such as Aldi's or Trader Joe's would not take a look at this property. Aldi's already operates two miles away, and Trader Joe's requires much higher incomes for their trade area. Well being anti-development and anti-gentrification and expecting amenities to come into the area is certainly a disconnect. Fact is Cleveland needs all of the gentrification and development it can get. Hopefully someone who is more pro-development steps into the role. My expectations for the Rite-aid site were low, and I certainly didn't expect Trader Joe's, but was hoping a developer with some aspirations for the site would obtain it. As for a grocery store, I'd be happy with something more local like the Mustard Seed in Highland Square down in Akron (not necessarily for that site but somewhere nearby). It's also pretty sad that there is no longer at least one pharmacy between downtown and Lakewood.
March 27Mar 27 40 minutes ago, Boaty McBoatface said: 🤔 I live within that radius, so thanks for the subtle insult. With that said, the houses down the street from me that just sold for over half a million dollars along with all of the current and future construction doesn’t indicate a neighborhood in decline. I am not delusional enough to say that it’s perfect over here, but I would hope that most people on this forum would at least weigh the experience of an actual resident a bit higher than someone who drove through a few times and saw Momma on her bike and assumed we were all just impoverished beggars. Maybe we will never get a Trader Joe’s, but using your logic I guess we could say that every other suburb outside of Pepper Pike and Westlake are too poor to sustain one as well. The car break-ins are bad to be sure, but last I checked, this was a development thread so why don’t we get back on topic eh? There is no question that the area north of Detroit is booming. And I think the Lorain midway will be transformative for some of the areas between Lorain and Detroit. But I do think there is a a housing stock challenge. These old houses are really expensive to fix up properly, and I can think of a few properties on my street and nearby which investors purchased and either continued to let rot or abandoned halfway through the project. Not to mention the properties owned by borderline slumlords who don’t maintain their properties or invest in their own community.
March 27Mar 27 1 minute ago, Henke said: There is no question that the area north of Detroit is booming. And I think the Lorain midway will be transformative for some of the areas between Lorain and Detroit. But I do think there is a a housing stock challenge. These old houses are really expensive to fix up properly, and I can think of a few properties on my street and nearby which investors purchased and either continued to let rot or abandoned halfway through the project. Not to mention the properties owned by borderline slumlords who don’t maintain their properties or invest in their own community. Sorry for responding so quickly, I do have a life I swear, but I just happened to check this right as you posted haha. I live south of Detroit. South of Franklin actually, and the houses near me are selling for the amount stated. Now, I do agree with you that absentee landlords/slumlords/suburban “investors” buying up old housing stock for tax purposes is a huge problem which is unfortunately not unique to old neighborhoods in the rust belt. I teach music for a living so I am of no use when it comes to steps we can take to eliminate that, and I also wish we had more retail options to be sure! I know for a fact that the owner of Alexandria Market is a dude who lives in a McMansion in Avon Lake who refuses to do anything to clean up the store because it’s his big money maker and I don’t know what the citizens or city can do to prevent things like this from continuing.
March 27Mar 27 On 3/26/2025 at 10:02 AM, Cleburger said: Great point. I wonder what the incoming candidates think? Andrew Defratis is running for what will be Ward 12 which extends from W. 117th to West Blvd and basically follows that width down to Linndale. He's running against Danny Kelly, which we know already, and Tanmay Shah who has been very active with the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) for a long time. So take a guess where he stands. Andrew and I have been working together on getting a resolution passed for something unrelated to housing/development. Stay tuned for my first ever public comment at City Hall on Monday! I have taken every opportunity to talk about how Jenny Spencer has been rather....awful on housing policy and development as a whole. I made a whole slideshow for him talking about expanding the form-based code across the city, as well as the benefits of a Land Value Tax (which is obviously more county rather than city.) Also, I pitched him a new idea that I came up with related to modular housing. He's been very interested in learning more about these types of ideas. I've been absolutely hammering the idea that a supply side solution is the only sustainable way to balance the housing market and how the current zoning and property tax structure limits our ability to reach that balance. I think he's really starting to understand it. I know that Nikki Hudson is only person I have heard running for Ward 11, which is East of West Blvd. I'm not super keen on her positions, but I will keep an ear out, and I very well could have an opportunity to meet her. I'm sure there's more but she's the only one I've heard about in conversation.
March 27Mar 27 48 minutes ago, Zagapi said: I know that Nikki Hudson is only person I have heard running for Ward 11, which is East of West Blvd. I'm not super keen on her positions, but I will keep an ear out, and I very well could have an opportunity to meet her. I'm sure there's more but she's the only one I've heard about in conversation. The bulk of the new Ward 11 is Cudell, Lorain Station/West Boulevard around Denison, and then a chunk of Old Brooklyn. Most of Detroit-Shoreway will be in the new Ward 7 which will be an eventful race, for sure.
March 27Mar 27 5 hours ago, Zagapi said: I know that Nikki Hudson is only person I have heard running for Ward 11, which is East of West Blvd. I'm not super keen on her positions, but I will keep an ear out, and I very well could have an opportunity to meet her. I'm sure there's more but she's the only one I've heard about in conversation. I live in 11 so please let us know how you progress with Nikki Hudson. I've met her a couple times she is very active in the area and quite nice, but then again so was Jenny Spencer. Nice doesn't always mean forward thinking!
March 28Mar 28 From today ... working on the foundation for the third building of The Vantage. And the middle building of the old complex is now totally gone on Breakwater.
April 1Apr 1 ** NOT AN APRIL FOOL'S JOKE ** Construction starts on Shoreway Tower By Ken Prendergast / April 1, 2025 Nope, it’s not an April Fool’s Joke. Construction work is getting underway this week for Cleveland’s next new high-rise residential building. But it’s not rising downtown or in the University Circle area. Instead, crews are assembling equipment, materials, portable toilets, utility relocations and more on a bluff overlooking the Shoreway boulevard and Edgewater Park. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/01/construction-starts-on-shoreway-tower/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 1Apr 1 Wish they could do every major development around town, imagine what The Edison could have been under their control. Glad to see this become a reality, hope Golden Hour events survive through summer of 2027 so I can get up there
April 1Apr 1 Gordon Square is in the midst of a development boom. The team behind Minh Anh is opening a Vietnamese coffee bar across from The Welleon, bringing a fresh concept to the neighborhood. Cake Drama, a popular local bakery, is expanding and relocating from Tremont to 5409 Detroit Ave. Meanwhile, The W Sports Bar is under construction and expected to become a regional destination.
April 1Apr 1 8 minutes ago, Clefan98 said: The team behind Minh Anh is opening a Vietnamese coffee bar across from The Welleon I’ve been wondering what that was going to be, are they doing anything with the second floor
April 2Apr 2 17 hours ago, KJP said: ** NOT AN APRIL FOOL'S JOKE ** More of these kind of April fools please! Would love to see these kinds of buildings lining Detroit from W 28th all the way to Lake Ave (or West Blvd TOD building, if we dare to dream).
April 2Apr 2 This went pending in less than a week! https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7541-Father-Frascati-Dr-Cleveland-OH-44102/2102282704_zpid/ Edited April 2Apr 2 by Clefan98
April 2Apr 2 11 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said: just a casual $7k+ mortgage payment every month lol Don't forget the HOA fees!!! IMO, though, this was the best home to hit the market on the near west side in a long time. Beautifully appointed and well-laid out... also 3,000+ SF.
April 2Apr 2 I think their lake view is about to get severely cropped by Shoreway Tower, so good time to sell. I wonder if the buyers know.
April 2Apr 2 1 hour ago, dwolfi01 said: just a casual $7k+ mortgage payment every month lol Not if you pay cash! 20 minutes ago, JohnSummit said: I think their lake view is about to get severely cropped by Shoreway Tower, so good time to sell. I wonder if the buyers know. The existing Shoreway Apartments already blocks views to the west, including of the soon-to-rise Shoreway Tower. Although you might be able to see from the rooftop deck of 7541 Fr. Frascati. This is the view to the west as of Aug. 2024... Which is a lot better than the view in Sept. 2009 -- then, of course, there was no townhome at 7541 Fr. Frascati yet... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 8Apr 8 On 4/2/2025 at 12:15 PM, Clefan98 said: This went pending in less than a week! https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7541-Father-Frascati-Dr-Cleveland-OH-44102/2102282704_zpid/ Before this thread gets locked, in case you want to know who are the buyers of Cleveland's increasing number of $1 million homes (Akram Boutros bought the first $1 million home I saw, on Duck Island). So this house was bought by someone who currently lives on Duck Island -- Maia Hansen, according to a certificate of disclosure from the city. If you're curious who she is and what she does... https://www.linkedin.com/in/maiahansen/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 8Apr 8 9 hours ago, KJP said: Before this thread gets locked, in case you want to know who are the buyers of Cleveland's increasing number of $1 million homes (Akram Boutros bought the first $1 million home I saw, on Duck Island). So this house was bought by someone who currently lives on Duck Island -- Maia Hansen, according to a certificate of disclosure from the city. If you're curious who she is and what she does... https://www.linkedin.com/in/maiahansen/ She was COO at Athersys. Maybe I can ask her for the 14K back that I lost on their worthless, disappearing stock, lol. Glad to see she can afford the $1M.
April 9Apr 9 Tony George buying Lake Avenue site By Ken Prendergast / April 9, 2025 A high-profile businessman is near to acquiring a piece of property between Cleveland’s stable Edgewater neighborhood to the west and the fast-growing Gordon Square neighborhood to the east. But despite the number of new residential developments emerging nearby, this commercial site is apparently going to stay commercial — possibly charitable. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/09/tony-george-buying-lake-avenue-site/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 9Apr 9 On 4/8/2025 at 2:00 PM, marty15 said: Heavy equipment is on site for Shoreway Tower today.
April 18Apr 18 All of the Breakwater demolition was completed when I drove by this afternoon. The structures are all gone. There is still a decent amount of debris, but based on their pace I don’t expect it will be there for much longer.
April 20Apr 20 So what is the Breakwater development theyre prepping for? I thought that was already built.
April 20Apr 20 10 hours ago, Jenny said: So what is the Breakwater development theyre prepping for? I thought that was already built. Here’s an article on the project details: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/10/31/gordon-square-more-apartments-townhomes/
April 23Apr 23 18 minutes ago, marty15 said: Things are happening. Saw that as well from my pov looked like it was NEORSD related
April 23Apr 23 Some non-poop/port related cranes also visible from DS. Assuming Irish town bend and CC
April 25Apr 25 Another restaurant concept? I thought terrestrial bistro was already falling flat. Don’t love that it’ll be another restaurant their brewery/tap room is my favorite in the city
April 25Apr 25 40 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said: Another restaurant concept? I thought terrestrial bistro was already falling flat. Don’t love that it’ll be another restaurant their brewery/tap room is my favorite in the city The concept to take it to a event venue is really smart. A bit nervous about it becoming a clone of The Basement since those are not my favorite and super suburban-y. Time will tell... Edit: New owner is Tim Adkins (owner of The Basement, Upper Deck, Turkey Foot) Edited April 25Apr 25 by downtownjoe
May 1May 1 Any updates on the mythical Walz/Karem complex @KJP ? Your last article stated an April start date.
May 1May 1 1 hour ago, marty15 said:Any updates on the mythical Walz/Karem complex @KJP ? Your last article stated an April start date.They're just a little delayed. 😉 Thanks for reminding me to check on this. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 2May 2 On 4/25/2025 at 11:35 AM, downtownjoe said:The concept to take it to a event venue is really smart. A bit nervous about it becoming a clone of The Basement since those are not my favorite and super suburban-y. Time will tell...Edit: New owner is Tim Adkins (owner of The Basement, Upper Deck, Turkey Foot)it is smart for them, but not great for garnering regulars. we have a next door brewery out here that does events and you cant count on it right after work to not be either closed for a private party, or open but with some kid's birthday party. 😂
May 2May 2 @marty15 Thanks for the reminder....Walz Library-Karam Senior Living gets city OKBy Ken Prendergast / May 2, 2025It’s a $34 million project nearly six years in the making. But after a pandemic, a sharp increase in construction costs, pursuits of additional financing and working out a complicated development partnership to build essentially two buildings in one, construction is finally in sight for the new Walz Branch Library topped by Karam Senior Living apartments.MORE:https://neo-trans.blog/2025/05/02/walz-library-karam-senior-living-gets-city-ok/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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