There's a lot of open land in the city.  Why did this have to go on Detroit near Gordon Square?  I want these folks to receive the care they need, but I'm not sure how being in a hot neighborhood benefits them.  Same goes for Euclid Ave to an extent.  There's plenty of space along Union or Central for people who are too busy receiving treatment to go gallery hopping.  And it's a better move for the tax base, which ultimately allows the city to help more of those in need. 

 

Interesting tidbit I've heard. That housing project is the first development under the new urban form overlay district, which is essentially Cleveland's version of experimenting with form-based code. I'd expect that Cleveland's future citywide form-based code will be similar to this district.

 

Lovely.  Might want to try that again, making allowances for use as well as form.

Core sample drilling happening in the parking lot at 45th and Detroit south of Max Hayes.

There's a lot of open land in the city.  Why did this have to go on Detroit near Gordon Square?  I want these folks to receive the care they need, but I'm not sure how being in a hot neighborhood benefits them.  Same goes for Euclid Ave to an extent.  There's plenty of space along Union or Central for people who are too busy receiving treatment to go gallery hopping.  And it's a better move for the tax base, which ultimately allows the city to help more of those in need. 

 

The neighborhood drops off pretty dramatically once you get past W. 78. This is not in a particularly desirable part of the neighborhood. There are still plenty of developable lots closer to the heart of Gordon Square, such as the former Watterson school, the block between 75th and 77th that recently burned down, and a few lots off W. 73. As a resident of the neighborhood, I have no problem with this project and I'm happy to see that it's being built with the urban form in mind.

This lot is across the street from a food pantry and fairly well served by transit. Seems like the perfect spot for this project.

There's a lot of open land in the city.  Why did this have to go on Detroit near Gordon Square?  I want these folks to receive the care they need, but I'm not sure how being in a hot neighborhood benefits them.  Same goes for Euclid Ave to an extent.  There's plenty of space along Union or Central for people who are too busy receiving treatment to go gallery hopping.  And it's a better move for the tax base, which ultimately allows the city to help more of those in need. 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but there's already a lot of social services in Gordon Square or along Detroit, in case you've missed it: the food pantry right across the street from this development (disclosure: I am an employee of the organization that runs the Community Corner Food Pantry), Murtis Taylor (95th and Detroit), El Barrio on 52nd and Detroit, and a couple more that I'm forgetting at the moment. It's also along a very reliable RTA bus line which is also a big incentive ( But yes, I agree that RTA should be expanding in other places, but most people don't have faith in RTA and especially those receiving treatment care about the here and now).

 

IF a neighborhood is planned with enough density, facilities and housing for lower income and/or those with personal and social crises can co-exist with an urban professional tax base that you're describing; see Ohio City with Stella Maris, St. Malachi's, Providence House, the West Side Catholic Center, St. Herman's house of hospitality, etc.

 

 

Core sample drilling happening in the parking lot at 45th and Detroit south of Max Hayes.

 

You beat me to it!!!!

 

The neighborhood drops off pretty dramatically once you get past W. 78.

 

Does it have to though?  Think of what Detroit Avenue could be, from downtown to the Rocky River valley and beyond, if the west 80s weren't quite so bad.  It was hoped that investments in Gordon Square would eventually radiate value outward.  For pedestrian purposes, this is a stone's throw away.

^Why can't we still hope for this? This project is making that stretch far less barren and unattractive to pedestrians.

Does it have to though?  Think of what Detroit Avenue could be, from downtown to the Rocky River valley and beyond, if the west 80s weren't quite so bad.  It was hoped that investments in Gordon Square would eventually radiate value outward.  For pedestrian purposes, this is a stone's throw away.

 

This project lifts up the neighborhood by lifting up people in the neighborhood, rather than by moving them out of the neighborhood.

The neighborhood drops off pretty dramatically once you get past W. 78.

 

Does it have to though?  Think of what Detroit Avenue could be, from downtown to the Rocky River valley and beyond, if the west 80s weren't quite so bad.  It was hoped that investments in Gordon Square would eventually radiate value outward.  For pedestrian purposes, this is a stone's throw away.

 

No, it doesn't and I think Detroit Avenue between 117th and Gordon Square can gentrify in the next 10-15 years and predict it will if the increased development and investment in Detroit-Shoreway, Battery Park, migration patterns, and housing trends continues. Heck, I think a lot of people don't realize how nice Edgewater already is.

Regarding the core drilling at Max Hayes......anyone know if this is CMSD or could there be something happening or possible besides another school.  I've long thought that was one of the best spots for mid or high rise housing on the west side.

the Detroit Avenue development elevates Cudell quite a bit actually.  No problem with that project.  We are a long ways off from Detroit being Chicago's Halstead avenue from Rocky River to Hingetown.  What we need now is well run tenants that bring some type of energy.  Then when the change does happen, they will be part of the process of determining good fits moving forward.  We don't want all Barrio Tacos and Melt Bar and Grilled.  The reason this area of the city is strong is becauase all shapes and sizes of people are welcome and can live a reasonable quality of life.  This is in Cudell by the way, in case we need to move this conversation

Does it have to though?  Think of what Detroit Avenue could be, from downtown to the Rocky River valley and beyond, if the west 80s weren't quite so bad.  It was hoped that investments in Gordon Square would eventually radiate value outward.  For pedestrian purposes, this is a stone's throw away.

 

This project lifts up the neighborhood by lifting up people in the neighborhood, rather than by moving them out of the neighborhood.

 

Sounds more like it's consolidating extremely troubled people from elsewhere.  There isn't a whole facility worth wandering around any given neighborhood.  I have no ill will toward these people, at all, part of my job is helping them... I just don't understand the value of putting their facility on a showpiece street.  It offers nothing to pedestrians except distance, in what is supposed to be a welcoming mixed-use environment.  Looks like a nice enough building though.

 

And parsing out whether this is Cudell or Edgewater or Detroit-Shoreway or Gordon Square is counterproductive IMO.  Cleveland needs less focus on neighborhood boundaries (imaginary lines) and more focus on the commercial streets (real functional lines) that tie it all together.  Detroit might be the best we have, especially when Lakewood is included, but there's such a jarring transition right here.  This project doesn't seem to advance any coherent plan to fix it.

Have you been on this part of this "showcase street"? Lately? This building is an absolute facelift. That's an ugly ugly part of Detroit road

There was drilling this morning on the south west corner of Detroit and 45th, across from Max Hayes. Could this be a sign that a bigger plan is in the works?

 

And parsing out whether this is Cudell or Edgewater or Detroit-Shoreway or Gordon Square is counterproductive IMO.  Cleveland needs less focus on neighborhood boundaries (imaginary lines) and more focus on the commercial streets (real functional lines) that tie it all together.  Detroit might be the best we have, especially when Lakewood is included, but there's such a jarring transition right here.  This project doesn't seem to advance any coherent plan to fix it.

 

about 8 or 9 years ago, Cleveland introduced the "model block" program which targeted a number of neighborhoods with strategic locations and better than average housing stock.  An area of Detroit Shoreway, Edgewater Hill, was part of this neighborhood focus.  These areas received additional resources in terms of streetscape improvements and other "seed money" to make sure these areas thrived over other neighborhoods in Cleveland.  So while it may seem reasonable to encourage development in all areas of Cleveland, the reality is that the city is shrinking and it really only makes sense to target the development in certain pockets where it will provide the most positive leverage.  I guess my point is that Detroit does get pretty rough past West 80's and will likely stay that way for a long time due to all the vacant land so focus the improvements where it will continue to add momentum.

There was drilling this morning on the south west corner of Detroit and 45th, across from Max Hayes. Could this be a sign that a bigger plan is in the works?

 

If anyone on here knows anything they're sure being quiet about it.

 

Welcome to the forum!

There's a lot of open land in the city.  Why did this have to go on Detroit near Gordon Square?  I want these folks to receive the care they need, but I'm not sure how being in a hot neighborhood benefits them.  Same goes for Euclid Ave to an extent.  There's plenty of space along Union or Central for people who are too busy receiving treatment to go gallery hopping.  And it's a better move for the tax base, which ultimately allows the city to help more of those in need. 

 

Interesting tidbit I've heard. That housing project is the first development under the new urban form overlay district, which is essentially Cleveland's version of experimenting with form-based code. I'd expect that Cleveland's future citywide form-based code will be similar to this district.

 

Lovely.  Might want to try that again, making allowances for use as well as form.

So because this development contains residents that aren't as "desirable" they have to be placed in some of the lower income "less desirable" neighborhoods? Due to this being an online forum your opinion is your opinion.

 

EDIT: Meant to add I saw your comments after the initial so you may not have meant any harm by the comments but on the surface they can be taken various ways.

 

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The surface is just that and opinions are just that.  What's your opinion?  About the topic, I mean.

 

Like I said, I work with these people.  My sympathy for them is acted upon offline and has nothing to do with my opinions on urban development.  I raised similar concerns about about a similar facility proposed at Euclid and 55th.  I think it's important to favor pedestrian-oriented mixed-use development on major streets.  These facilities don't interact with their environment much, so they aren't good fits for areas where we're trying to stimulate pedestrian activity. 

 

Very important work goes on inside these facilities but the location of the building isn't important to that work.  I could have suggested Bath as an alternate location, and it's a perfectly good one, but then the city-to-suburbs issue might have overshadowed my main point about the Gordon Square Arts District.  Personal criticism was inevitable, I knew that going in.  And I'm used to it.

^ Any chance that this is a shrewd economic move by the facility? They buy in an area with good prospects for renewal, rising property values. Then sell in the future and the proceeds could go into a larger facility down the road.

Hmm. Wonder if this property will stay as light-industrial?

 

8506 LAKE AVE

CLEVELAND

Sales Date 4/19/2016

Amount $650,000

Buyer MIDPAC, LLC

Seller PACE PROPERTIES CLEVELAND LLC

Deed type LIMITED WA

Land value $89,300

Building value $560,700

Total value $650,000

Parcel 001-09-084

Property Manufacturing and assembly, light

 

Property location and details:

http://www.realtytrac.com/property/oh/cleveland/44102/8506-lake-ave/182129700

Appears that the purchaser is Mid American Construction.  Unless they are going to begin doing development, my guess is it remains light industrial.

New LGBT Community Center of Greater Cleveland plans unveiled

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/05/new_cleveland_lgbt_center_will.html

New LGBT Community Center of Greater Cleveland plans unveiled

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/05/new_cleveland_lgbt_center_will.html

 

^ Shame they have to tear down what looks like a perfectly good building to do this.

New LGBT Community Center of Greater Cleveland plans unveiled

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/05/new_cleveland_lgbt_center_will.html

 

^ Shame they have to tear down what looks like a perfectly good building to do this.

 

That building is nothing special and clearly doesn't meet the needs of the new Community center. I think it's a fair trade.

New LGBT Community Center of Greater Cleveland plans unveiled

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/05/new_cleveland_lgbt_center_will.html

 

^ Shame they have to tear down what looks like a perfectly good building to do this.

 

That building is nothing special and clearly doesn't meet the needs of the new Community center. I think it's a fair trade.

 

It's built to the street and fits in with its surroundings. It doesn't deserve to be torn down.

There's a lot of open land in the city.  Why did this have to go on Detroit near Gordon Square?  I want these folks to receive the care they need, but I'm not sure how being in a hot neighborhood benefits them.  Same goes for Euclid Ave to an extent.  There's plenty of space along Union or Central for people who are too busy receiving treatment to go gallery hopping.  And it's a better move for the tax base, which ultimately allows the city to help more of those in need. 

 

Interesting tidbit I've heard. That housing project is the first development under the new urban form overlay district, which is essentially Cleveland's version of experimenting with form-based code. I'd expect that Cleveland's future citywide form-based code will be similar to this district.

 

Lovely.  Might want to try that again, making allowances for use as well as form.

So because this development contains residents that aren't as "desirable" they have to be placed in some of the lower income "less desirable" neighborhoods? Due to this being an online forum your opinion is your opinion.

 

EDIT: Meant to add I saw your comments after the initial so you may not have meant any harm by the comments but on the surface they can be taken various ways.

 

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I'd like to add some perspective to this topic as someone who lives in the area (in the townhouses directly next to the new EDEN building, actually).

 

I'm actually not opposed to this construction at all. I've only been living on W 81 for a year, but when I moved in my house looked directly onto the then-vacant lot that the new construction has replaced. Previous to the lot being vacant, there was a lower-density structure that, I believe, served some type of medical or social service purpose.

 

Regardless, the vacant lot presented a lot of opportunity for fireworks and other somewhat aggravating things aside from looking blighted. I really appreciate the density that this new structure brings to the area and, ultimately, I think the design is inoffensive enough and has adequate massing for the street. I know there was some friction with some of the property owners in my strip of townhouses since all of their property lines meet with the new EDEN lot. One nice benefit from the construction for owners in my row is that the five units closest to Detroit are actually being given additional land from EDEN. Not sure what we'll do with it, but it's a nice enough feature to give a bit of a buffer between the properties.

Update on construction at the bluffs site.  (Shot from the top of the W. 65th tunnel entrance looking East)

 

April 2016:

 

 

 

 

 

June:

 

That's quick work!

Here's a couple from last week showing the scale of the project....

You can see the difference in quality between this and the new stuff on Detroit near W. 25th st.

 

That is concrete, cinderblock, and brick.... this is 4 stories of stick built junk.

 

the only thing made out of anything other than fiberboard is the elevator shafts.  This will not age well. 

 

Better than an abandoned industrial building....but won't be in 20 years as it deteriorates.

 

 

 

 

Are these townhomes? Usually, noise issues are only apparent if you have a stick built structure with various apartments scattered on all floors. If it's a single owner on all three floors, that issue is abated. (No owner is going to complain about his son causing too much ruckus upstairs.)

 

That said, I've been in some stick built apartments that are upwards of four floors high and have seen varying quality. One was bare bones - and you could hear noise from apartments above and below it. Jumping on the floor caused some minor vibrations. It was still structurally sound; wooden buildings are more robust than you think. It's what you do with it that matters: sound proofing elements, upgraded fire barriers, sprinklers...

Are these townhomes? Usually, noise issues are only apparent if you have a stick built structure with various apartments scattered on all floors. If it's a single owner on all three floors, that issue is abated. (No owner is going to complain about his son causing too much ruckus upstairs.)

 

That said, I've been in some stick built apartments that are upwards of four floors high and have seen varying quality. One was bare bones - and you could hear noise from apartments above and below it. Jumping on the floor caused some minor vibrations. It was still structurally sound; wooden buildings are more robust than you think. It's what you do with it that matters: sound proofing elements, upgraded fire barriers, sprinklers...

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/theedison01816.aspx

 

The venture will consist of eight structures including four apartment buildings, three townhouse buildings and one carriage house garage. One-bedroom/one-bath apartments will range from 561 to 1,047 square feet. Two-bedroom/two-bath units will go from 1,027 to 1,248 square feet. Some will include a den/study.

 

Townhouses will have a ground floor garage with two floors of living space above. Two- and three-bedroom units with two and a half bathrooms will range from 1,530 to 1,764 square feet. The largest three-bedroom townhouses will be 1,946 square feet and will feature three and a half bathrooms.

 

Rents for all the units will be market rate. While details have not been finalized, Pechota says they will range from under $1,000 for the smaller one-bedroom units to upwards of $2,000 for the larger townhomes.

Are these townhomes? Usually, noise issues are only apparent if you have a stick built structure with various apartments scattered on all floors. If it's a single owner on all three floors, that issue is abated. (No owner is going to complain about his son causing too much ruckus upstairs.)

 

That said, I've been in some stick built apartments that are upwards of four floors high and have seen varying quality. One was bare bones - and you could hear noise from apartments above and below it. Jumping on the floor caused some minor vibrations. It was still structurally sound; wooden buildings are more robust than you think. It's what you do with it that matters: sound proofing elements, upgraded fire barriers, sprinklers...

 

ALL of it stick built.  town homes in the foreground.  4 story apartment buildings in the background..  the stuff attached to the cinderblock elevator shafts/stairwells are the apartments. 

 

The townhomes that Dergon and I live in have 2 x 4 drywall on both sides of a cinderblock wall 4 stories high.

 

there is nothing between the townhomes....there is a whole LOT of nothing between the apartments.  I am sure they will be getting all the top of the line soundproofing...that could have been achieved with concrete, but wasn't.

 

It is real easy to see.  Go drive by the apartments that were just finished at 32 nd and detroit and the new ones they are building at 38th.  Then drive by this.

 

One of these 3 projects is going to age much worse than the others.  2 are quality construction, one isn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see the difference in quality between this and the new stuff on Detroit near W. 25th st.

 

That is concrete, cinderblock, and brick.... this is 4 stories of stick built junk.

 

the only thing made out of anything other than fiberboard is the elevator shafts.  This will not age well. 

 

Better than an abandoned industrial building....but won't be in 20 years as it deteriorates.

 

 

For residential structures 3 stories or less, it just doesn't make sense to do anything besides wood framing.  There's no way you can charge enough to justify higher construction costs.  I think the building you're talking about on Detroit is Mariner's Watch.  That's multi-family with parking underneath, totally different setup.

You can see the difference in quality between this and the new stuff on Detroit near W. 25th st.

 

That is concrete, cinderblock, and brick.... this is 4 stories of stick built junk.

 

the only thing made out of anything other than fiberboard is the elevator shafts.  This will not age well. 

 

Better than an abandoned industrial building....but won't be in 20 years as it deteriorates.

 

 

For residential structures 3 stories or less, it just doesn't make sense to do anything besides wood framing.  There's no way you can charge enough to justify higher construction costs.  I think the building you're talking about on Detroit is Mariner's Watch.  That's multi-family with parking underneath, totally different setup.

 

They are 4 story apartment buildings ,  So not 3 stories or less and multi family.  Your point was?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see the difference in quality between this and the new stuff on Detroit near W. 25th st.

 

That is concrete, cinderblock, and brick.... this is 4 stories of stick built junk.

 

the only thing made out of anything other than fiberboard is the elevator shafts.  This will not age well. 

 

Better than an abandoned industrial building....but won't be in 20 years as it deteriorates.

 

 

For residential structures 3 stories or less, it just doesn't make sense to do anything besides wood framing.  There's no way you can charge enough to justify higher construction costs.  I think the building you're talking about on Detroit is Mariner's Watch.  That's multi-family with parking underneath, totally different setup.

 

They are 4 story apartment buildings ,  So not 3 stories or less and multi family.  Your point was?

 

 

No need to be an ass.

 

If it's 4 story apartment building, it's got an elevator.  Requires masonry at the stairwells and elevator shaft.  Different from 3 story townhomes.

Here's some pics that show the scale of this development...

 

20160607_190845 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

20160607_190815 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

20160607_190819 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

20160607_190805 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

Here's some TOD coming to the W65th red line station! 

Here's some TOD coming to the W65th red line station! 

 

Cool, here's a press release and a streetview of the site. Now if they could just get rid of that damn used car lot next to the station!

 

 

 

 

http://www.enterprisecommunity.com/news-and-events/news-releases/detroit-shoreway

 

Contact:

John Keaten             

212.784.5701 - office                             

[email protected]

 

Dimit Architects to Design Aspen Place

Detroit Shoreway Community Development Organization and Enterprise Community Partners Select Dimit Architects to Design Aspen Place

A transit-oriented, mixed-use affordable housing development that will anchor revitalization efforts along Lorain Avenue, Aspen Place was the subject of an innovative, competitive design process

 

CLEVELAND - Detroit Shoreway Community Development Organization (DSCDO) and Enterprise Community Partners, Inc. (Enterprise) announced today Dimit Architects as the winner of an innovative, competitive design process for Aspen Place, a transit-oriented, mixed-use affordable housing development that will anchor revitalization efforts along Lorain Avenue.

 

Located within the EcoVillage, designated as the country’s first urban EcoDistrict in 1998, and adjacent to the W. 65th Street Rapid Transit station, Aspen Place will feature 34 units of affordable housing above community and commercial space. Using an Enterprise Pre-Development Design Grant awarded through a national competition, DSCDO engaged local architecture firms Dimit Architects, Marous Brothers Construction, and Dale Serne Architects to participate in the design visioning process for Aspen Place. DSCDO worked with the Detroit Collaborative Design Center (DCDC) to craft a design brief and facilitate the architects’ final presentations. Diverse stakeholders evaluated these presentations and selected Dimit Architects to work on the Aspen Place development as it moves forward. The review committee included representatives from DSCDO, Enterprise, Neighborhood Progress, Inc., EcoVillage residents, the Kent State Urban Design Collaborative, Councilman Matt Zone and the EcoVillage Steering Committee, which includes representatives from Enterprise, Green City Blue Lake, and Cleveland State University.

 

“Aspen Place will be a catalytic project that builds on our recent revitalization efforts in our community,” said Matt Lasko, assistant director, DSCDO. “Our unique approach to community design and development is guided by resident input and action, and we look forward to working with Dimit Architects as we continue to strengthen the fabric of the neighborhood through well-designed affordable housing.”

 

“Enterprise Pre-Development Grants provide funding for design exploration and collaboration during the early stages of affordable housing development when, often, it can have the most impact on building within the local site and neighborhood context. Aspen Place will be a project that creates a new design standard for Cleveland,” said Mark McDermott, Ohio market leader, Enterprise.

 

The building will meet the Enterprise Green Communities Criteria, which will ensure high standards in energy and water efficiency, indoor air quality, and accessibility, as part of Enterprise’s pioneering Call to Action to green all affordable housing by 2020. Residents of Aspen Place will have easy access to the recently revamped Zone Recreation Center across the street, which offers 22 acres of green space and ball fields that are open to the public.

 

For more information, visit: http://www.enterprisecommunity.com/designgrant.

###

Very sharp.

 

And yeah, hopefully we see development in that area get into the money enough for some of those used lot operators to sell.

Is there a possibility that the developers of these buildings close to rapid transit could work with RTA or vice-versa to offer incentive to catch the train?

 

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Is there a possibility that the developers of these buildings close to rapid transit could work with RTA or vice-versa to offer incentive to catch the train?

 

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Yes. See the project description that Clefan98 posted.

Is there a possibility that the developers of these buildings close to rapid transit could work with RTA or vice-versa to offer incentive to catch the train?

 

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Yes. See the project description that Clefan98 posted.

This is what I get for not reading thoroughly lol. This type of thing needs to become a standard. I feel as though E.120th street station could have benefited greatly from that, albeit a slightly different situation.

 

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I'm sure some will roll their eyes at the affordable housing aspect of Aspen Place, but I'm thrilled it's going in here.  It's rare Cleveland TOD and it's an attractive upgrade over what's there now... I'm tired of looking at weedy hillsides next to our Rapid stations... or used car lots, or gas stations, or elementary schools or nondescript, single use 1-floor office fortresses. 

 

Aspen Place is yet another signal that the D-S neighborhood upgrade is pushing south and not solely limited to Gordon Sq and Battery Park.

It's also a signal that RTA is starting to understand TOD.  The first attempt near this station was a cluster of tiny cottages. 

It's also a signal that RTA is starting to understand TOD.  The first attempt near this station was a cluster of tiny cottages. 

 

RTA isn't an instigator of this project. It's being built on their land (as is the new day care center at Triskett), but they are the respondent on this project.

More graphics at:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2016/07142016/index.php

 

Cleveland Landmarks Commission

AGENDA - July 14, 2016

 

Case 16-042

Gordon Square Historic District

6410 Detroit Avenue

Renovation for The Boiler Restaurant

 

 

 

 

 

 

Case 16-043

Gordon Square Historic District

6705 Detroit Avenue

Demolition and New Construction for LGBT Center

 

 

 

These images were on CPC's agenda this week but I don't see a docket entry....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2016/08192016/index.php

 

 

 

 

Went to a soft opening for GroundSwell, a new yoga studio owned by Harness Cycle.  It's in the same building as Cleveland Motorcycles on 65th and Herman.  They have build a really cool rooftop deck and are working on a hot yoga studio on the 2nd floor of the building.  They are on the Cleveland Hustles show.

 

Does anyone know what the building at 58th and Herman is being demolished for?  It was for sale/lease for a while.