I've noticed that too.   But Summa hospital in Akron had 4 tower cranes at once a few years ago when they were building their new bed tower.  Go figure.

West 73rd Street Apartments renewed for Cleveland's Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood

 

New apartments are planned for Cleveland's Edgewater neighborhood, adding to an ongoing push to further develop the area.

 

Horton Harper Architects is seeking schematic approval on the West 73rd Street Apartments, which will include two 108-unit apartments across the intersection of West 73rd Street and Herman Avenue near the Gordon Square Arts District.

 

Wes Harper, co-founder of Horton Harper Architects, is representing the project.

 

The 181,000-square-foot project will be heard June 1 at the Far West Design Review meeting, which will recommend its approval or disapproval by the Cleveland City Planning Commission.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2022/05/31/west-73rd-apartments-cleveland.html

 

That massive blank wall facing 73rd is a non starter. Everything else looks good tho.

Has anyone seen the floor plans?  Do they have shag carpeted, wood paneled rec rooms?  Be cooler if they did.

Lava lamp with every 1-year lease included.

jeepers can they put a dunkin in the middle of that? you would be parched by the time you walk down that epic block.

Don’t know if this was posted before, but it appears the off shoot of Cleveland Cyclewerks, Land Electric Motorcycles, has repopulated the former CCW home at 65th and Herman. Awesome to see a cool company like Land, building EV bikes in the neighborhood. 

 

https://landmoto.io/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnNyUBhCZARIsAI9AYlEb64u5MuZErdLwvdlkg_zZPpRZ4xfdm-39pBf06pEeCzwTl3B1TOIaAkhFEALw_wcB

Edited June 1, 20223 yr by marty15

19 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

West 73rd Street Apartments renewed for Cleveland's Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood

 

New apartments are planned for Cleveland's Edgewater neighborhood, adding to an ongoing push to further develop the area.

 

Horton Harper Architects is seeking schematic approval on the West 73rd Street Apartments, which will include two 108-unit apartments across the intersection of West 73rd Street and Herman Avenue near the Gordon Square Arts District.

 

Wes Harper, co-founder of Horton Harper Architects, is representing the project.

 

The 181,000-square-foot project will be heard June 1 at the Far West Design Review meeting, which will recommend its approval or disapproval by the Cleveland City Planning Commission.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2022/05/31/west-73rd-apartments-cleveland.html

I missed the end of this Far West Review meeting, but it sounded like it was headed for recommended disapproval.  A group of neighbors and Jenny Spencer spoke in opposition to the proposal.  

24 minutes ago, ML11 said:

I missed the end of this Far West Review meeting, but it sounded like it was headed for recommended disapproval.  A group of neighbors and Jenny Spencer spoke in opposition to the proposal.  

Well that’s not good news. Planning commission gives a lot of weight to a council person‘s opinion. This is ridiculous. If Horton and Harper gets screwed by another council person like they did in Ohio city I wouldn’t be surprised if they just pack their bags and moved to Streetsboro. 

2 hours ago, ML11 said:

I missed the end of this Far West Review meeting, but it sounded like it was headed for recommended disapproval.  A group of neighbors and Jenny Spencer spoke in opposition to the proposal.  

Vacant lots and abandoned buildings hold preference in this city. It’s fxxking sad. 

^Well, it passed for Schematic Design. On to Planning on the 17th.

As much as I like Matt Zone, he shot down a bunch of residential developments along Detroit cause he wanted retail to line Detroit. You need a mix, especially in today’s society. Look to Madison in Lakewood for a model that works. And now Jenny is torpedoing projects? And this is on a side street. 

Edited June 2, 20223 yr by marty15

Everyone seems to want retail - except the retailers. 

Retailers want more residents. Residents want fewer residents.

13 minutes ago, w28th said:

Retailers want more residents. Residents want fewer residents.

Why is this so hard to understand?
 

That’s my biggest issue. We care so much about the opinions of the people of our many sparsely populated neighborhoods, but ZERO about those who want to live here. 

Edited June 2, 20223 yr by marty15

18 hours ago, ML11 said:

I missed the end of this Far West Review meeting, but it sounded like it was headed for recommended disapproval.  A group of neighbors and Jenny Spencer spoke in opposition to the proposal.  

 

I'm not sure why, but this morning in particular this got my blood boiling.

 

Are people not aware that Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway had previously been FILLED with not only dense, multi-family housing, but also double-occupied parcels? At that time, Detroit Shoreway had a BOOMING retail scene, with trolley service, and West 25th also had a robust central business district, only a mile apart from each other. 

 

We will never get the development we want and more thriving business districts until we have more population density. With that density will come demand for transit, demand for better schools, demand for walkable groceries and retail options, multi-modal pathways for bikes and scooters. 

 

My Grandpa grew up 1 of 9 children in a home on West 61st and talked about the fabric of the neighborhood and its vibrancy until the day he died. My dad said it always broke his heart to see buildings come down that were formerly occupied. 

 

I'm really thankful we have Kerry McCormack and not Jenny Spencer - because she seems wholly committed to preserving the status quo whenever it may ruffle enough feathers to threaten her seat. 

 

End rant. 

My understanding is, despite the outcry, the building passed (with conditions)

I wonder what the opposition was. It's not like they aren't building a ton of apartment buildings already in Detroit Shoreway.

 

Yabo, don't forget McCormack also came out strongly against two apartments buildings that were ultimately denied, one each in Ohio City and Tremont.

7 minutes ago, Mendo said:

I wonder what the opposition was. It's not like they aren't building a ton of apartment buildings already in Detroit Shoreway.

 

Yabo, don't forget McCormack also came out strongly against two apartments buildings that were ultimately denied, one each in Ohio City and Tremont.

I would sure like to know what the opposition was as well. I would especially like to know what Spencer‘s problem with the project is other than pandering to a few vocals. You are absolutely right about all the other projects going up in Detroit Shoreway. In fact there are huge buildings Just a few yards down the street going up in battery Park. Moreover, a similar sized building was approved for another developer a couple of years ago on that parcel I do remember some moaning from neighbors directly across the street in single-family homes to no avail at that time. If I lived in those houses I’d rather have a Horton and Harper designed apartment building across the street instead of vacant lots and worn out commercial buildings. 

Let’s get this thing goin!

3 hours ago, Mendo said:

I wonder what the opposition was. It's not like they aren't building a ton of apartment buildings already in Detroit Shoreway.

 

Yabo, don't forget McCormack also came out strongly against two apartments buildings that were ultimately denied, one each in Ohio City and Tremont.

 

Here are the complaints, roughly in order of how often stated: 

Parking (140 spaces proposed for 210 units)

"Not fitting the neighborhood"  next to smaller single-family houses

Traffic volume/speed on West 73rd

Prefer For Sale instead of rental

Do not want a neighborhood full of "luxury apartments"  (seems to be a mix of anti-renter sentiment along with desire for "economic diversity")

 

People want single-family housing or nothing, ignoring the reality that the land (and demolition cost) is probably too expensive to build single-family houses at a reasonable price point.  (Not to mention the pending cutback of the 15-year property tax abatement, which will make high-dollar new houses less attractive than they've been previously.) 

 

There are issues with speeding on 73rd and they will need to do some traffic calming regardless, but that feels like something that can be solved regardless of the status of this parcel.  

 

 

 

Theyre complaining it doesn’t have enough parking spaces, and also complaining about increased traffic? So they want 70 more cars coming and going from it? Huh?

2 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Theyre complaining it doesn’t have enough parking spaces, and also complaining about increased traffic? So they want 70 more cars coming and going from it? Huh?

 

I don't get the speeding rationale...

 

Is it "Hey honey, new construction, better punch it to 80 MPH!" or "Wow, there are a lot more people around here than there used to be, better gun it!" ????

1 minute ago, YABO713 said:

 

I don't get the speeding rationale...

 

Is it "Hey honey, new construction, better punch it to 80 MPH!" or "Wow, there are a lot more people around here than there used to be, better gun it!" ????

I would venture to say that people who live on said street don’t speed on that street. And wouldn’t more traffic slow down traffic?  Kind of need no one in front of you for speeding to work. I dunno.

1 hour ago, ML11 said:

 

Do not want a neighborhood full of "luxury apartments"  (seems to be a mix of anti-renter sentiment along with desire for "economic diversity")

 

People want single-family housing or nothing, ignoring the reality that the land (and demolition cost) is probably too expensive to build single-family houses at a reasonable price point.  (Not to mention the pending cutback of the 15-year property tax abatement, which will make high-dollar new houses less attractive than they've been previously.)

 

In other words, $2,500/mo. apartments = very bad. $800,000 new construction single family homes = very good.

 

27 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

I don't get the speeding rationale...

 

Is it "Hey honey, new construction, better punch it to 80 MPH!" or "Wow, there are a lot more people around here than there used to be, better gun it!" ????

There's no point in trying to think through NIMBY "logic." I heard someone complain about the Top of the Hill development in Cleveland Heights because it's right next to a drive through Chipotle and they said it would make the drive through too busy. Y'know those apartment dwellers who get in their car to go to the drive through 300 feet away from their apartment.

I agree that it's fairly easy to poke holes in these arguments, but I do have a little bit of sympathy for the long-time homeowners on West 73rd.  There are 10-15 homes on the west side of the street in the "legacy" neighborhood, and another 8-10 townhomes in the BP section.   West 73rd used to be a sleepy street, but since the city pushed it through to Edgewater and the Shoreway, it has become much busier, especially on summer weekends, and it gets its fair share of moronic drivers going to/from the beach.  

 

Now I think overall the neighborhood has changed significantly for the better, and it's very convenient to have the Shoreway connection available, and home values have certainly risen over time, but I understand why some people would push back against more change/activity on the street, even if it doesn't make sense in the bigger picture. I have a lot less sympathy for people who don't live on 73rd and simply want the neighborhood to exist exactly as it is today (or was yesterday) for the rest of time.  

 

 

49 minutes ago, ML11 said:

I agree that it's fairly easy to poke holes in these arguments, but I do have a little bit of sympathy for the long-time homeowners on West 73rd.  There are 10-15 homes on the west side of the street in the "legacy" neighborhood, and another 8-10 townhomes in the BP section.   West 73rd used to be a sleepy street, but since the city pushed it through to Edgewater and the Shoreway, it has become much busier, especially on summer weekends, and it gets its fair share of moronic drivers going to/from the beach.  

 

Now I think overall the neighborhood has changed significantly for the better, and it's very convenient to have the Shoreway connection available, and home values have certainly risen over time, but I understand why some people would push back against more change/activity on the street, even if it doesn't make sense in the bigger picture. I have a lot less sympathy for people who don't live on 73rd and simply want the neighborhood to exist exactly as it is today (or was yesterday) for the rest of time.  

 

 

 

I think you raise some fair points. But gentrification as a four-letter word really just doesn't happen in Cleveland the way it does in Chicago, NY, Boston, or Denver. 

 

Even the most premier streets in Ohio City, Tremont, and Detroit Shoreway have mixed socioeconomic households. More people makes the neighborhood safer and will lead to more sustainable development and walkable jobs. As an anecdote, my street has doctors, lawyers, an investment banker, and also teachers, a sanitation worker, and a family across the street with no employment history to speak of. That mix, in part, is what makes our community a special place, in my opinion. I'm all for protecting existing residents - but projecting fear can't come in the way of progress. 

 

I also tried to take a devil's advocate approach to this, and can't think of a single project since my time on this forum that's been given the go-ahead and was a net negative for the adjacent neighborhood. You could argue maybe Church and State, but I think that's a stretch and has added real density to Hingetown that's accelerated investment. 

11 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I think you raise some fair points. But gentrification as a four-letter word really just doesn't happen in Cleveland the way it does in Chicago, NY, Boston, or Denver. 

 

Even the most premier streets in Ohio City, Tremont, and Detroit Shoreway have mixed socioeconomic households. More people makes the neighborhood safer and will lead to more sustainable development and walkable jobs. As an anecdote, my street has doctors, lawyers, an investment banker, and also teachers, a sanitation worker, and a family across the street with no employment history to speak of. That mix, in part, is what makes our community a special place, in my opinion. I'm all for protecting existing residents - but projecting fear can't come in the way of progress. 

 

I also tried to take a devil's advocate approach to this, and can't think of a single project since my time on this forum that's been given the go-ahead and was a net negative for the adjacent neighborhood. You could argue maybe Church and State, but I think that's a stretch and has added real density to Hingetown that's accelerated investment. 

I agree with you.  There is still a big economic mix in the legacy areas of Gordon Square, and that is not going to evaporate overnight, regardless of how many apartment units get built on surrounding parcels. 

 

The median household income in Cleveland is around $30k and it's not much higher in the wider Ward 15.  If we're missing economic diversity in Cleveland, it's because there is a below average number of middle/higher income households in the city.  

 

 

On 5/31/2022 at 5:32 PM, marty15 said:

That massive blank wall facing 73rd is a non starter. Everything else looks good tho.

They should put a mural on it

4 hours ago, ML11 said:

I agree that it's fairly easy to poke holes in these arguments, but I do have a little bit of sympathy for the long-time homeowners on West 73rd.  There are 10-15 homes on the west side of the street in the "legacy" neighborhood, and another 8-10 townhomes in the BP section.   West 73rd used to be a sleepy street, but since the city pushed it through to Edgewater and the Shoreway, it has become much busier, especially on summer weekends, and it gets its fair share of moronic drivers going to/from the beach.  

 

Now I think overall the neighborhood has changed significantly for the better, and it's very convenient to have the Shoreway connection available, and home values have certainly risen over time, but I understand why some people would push back against more change/activity on the street, even if it doesn't make sense in the bigger picture. I have a lot less sympathy for people who don't live on 73rd and simply want the neighborhood to exist exactly as it is today (or was yesterday) for the rest of time.  

 

 

These West 73rd residents seem to forget that the ambulance company Mobil Martin had 75+ ambulance/EMT crews coming and going up and down 73rd 24 hours a day, that pre dated the underpass. Up until 6 years ago when they went out of business.

 

The purpose of the underpass was to drive traffic and investment into the neighborhood. And now we’re not okay with that? 

 

It’s just mind numbing. The design is really good too. The style reminds me of something you’d see in San Diego harbor.

Edited June 2, 20223 yr by marty15

I always wondered why they connected the Shoreway to such a narrow street (W 73rd).

4 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said:

I always wondered why they connected the Shoreway to such a narrow street (W 73rd).

An intersection with W.65th would’ve made the most sense. But nothing makes sense here. We’ve had all the wrong people in positions of power in this city for decades, and still to this day. 

6 hours ago, marty15 said:

An intersection with W.65th would’ve made the most sense. But nothing makes sense here. We’ve had all the wrong people in positions of power in this city for decades, and still to this day. 

While I am sure city officials in the Jackson administration had input, weren't most of the design decisions the responsibility of ODOT?  Still think they made a mistake by not incorporating intersections into the design.

7 hours ago, marty15 said:

An intersection with W.65th would’ve made the most sense. But nothing makes sense here. We’ve had all the wrong people in positions of power in this city for decades, and still to this day. 

There have been pedestrian tunnels at 65th and 76th since the turn of the century. It wouldn’t have made any sense to put the intersection at 65th. Plenty to criticize about the shoreway plan (like @Htsguysaid the decision to not have at grade intersections), but the placement of the one intersection isn’t it.

18 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

There have been pedestrian tunnels at 65th and 76th since the turn of the century. It wouldn’t have made any sense to put the intersection at 65th. Plenty to criticize about the shoreway plan (like @Htsguysaid the decision to not have at grade intersections), but the placement of the one intersection isn’t it.

The tunnel is actually closer to 67th and wouldn’t have been bothered, but for traffic purposes, 65th would’ve made the most sense. It’s a semi major north south street, and plenty wide enough. 

Edited June 3, 20223 yr by marty15

3rd floor is started!

Construction fencing up for the new Walz complex.

The east side of 73rd clearing has begun.

Hopefully the old Happy’s is next.

1 hour ago, marty15 said:

Construction fencing up for the new Walz complex.

I wish they would have chosen to preserve that old building. But if it has to go I'm glad it's being replaced by what it is.

40 minutes ago, gpodawund said:

I wish they would have chosen to preserve that old building. But if it has to go I'm glad it's being replaced by what it is.

I do too. It could’ve/should’ve been saved, and ideally we got a mini Library Lofts version next to it.  I’ve made peace with it lol. 

4 hours ago, marty15 said:

Hopefully the old Happy’s is next.

Happy's will be next to go... That I can personally guarantee

4 hours ago, marty15 said:

The east side of 73rd clearing has begun.

 

4 hours ago, marty15 said:

Hopefully the old Happy’s is next.

 

4 hours ago, marty15 said:

The east side of 73rd clearing has begun.

Is this the L shaped property on W73rd next to the street they just cut through or something souh of that?

Construction fencing up for the new Walz complex.
http://cdn.urbanohio.com/monthly_2022_06/C6045D43-2158-44B8-81B4-0AA4FDD8194A.thumb.jpeg.36e1379b6485b4eaca3fdb0dbfea39e9.jpeg

Gut wrenching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

4 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said:

 

 

Is this the L shaped property on W73rd next to the street they just cut through or something souh of that?

It’s the long cluster of properties south of it.

The argument about too much "luxury" housing is one of the more intellectually lazy arguments I've read in a long time.   I don't think public policy should be geared towards or prioritized towards this group, but as someone who sees incomes and credit reports of my tenants, I think the idea that anywhere close to a majority or significant minority of the people who live in most of these places are "rich" is really  not the case.  They simply are deciding to put their money towards renting instead of owning and increase their geographic mobility.  Most of my tenants make between 40-80g.   I am actually breaking down the data by building now.  You'd be shocked at how middle class it is.   It just isn't the lunch pail middle class that older people know -- they look different and have different tastes but they nonetheless are middle class (btw most have student loan debt etc).   When someone says they don't want luxury housing, I wonder what income streams they do want more of and if they have a real plan for developing that besides this weird form of populism which really doesn't level with people.  Who do they think is shopping at grocery store they recruited to the neighborhood or buying 16 dollar movie tickets to keep the theater from needing more welfare?   Wouldn't we want more people like this rather than less?   

Also -  what exactly makes it luxurious?  The quality materials?  The energy efficiency?  the areas for exercise within the buildings?  The mostly local business on the first floors of these spaces?     If these things are attracting people to the city and to the neighborhood, given population loss, the need to increase the tax base etc -- I would say these things aren't just luxuries but things all of our neighborhoods need.    I think a lot of people would also say that owning a home these days and giving up that mobility and the downpayment required is what is the luxury.  Should these kinds of projects that have mostly people making between 40-100k living in them be all that's developed -- of course not.  But this zero sum game mentality isn't going to help one bit. It just wins over 4 people at a block club meeting.  Our politics and our words should be more studied and more meaningful then this 

Edited June 5, 20223 yr by misterjoshr

On 6/3/2022 at 3:50 PM, zbaris87 said:

Happy's will be next to go... That I can personally guarantee

Personally? Do tell!

Is gentrification a good or bad thing? Depends on who you ask.

 

I think most of us live with blinders on. Unable to see things that don't fit their preconceptions. The world is usually more nuanced and complicated than most are willing to admit. I try to look beyond what someone is saying and see if I can figure out what is prompting their position in the first place. I may not agree with their statement but if I can find their reason it's usually more insightful than their statement. Isn't that the first step to understanding? And once you understand someone then it's easier to find a solution to a problem.

'Course if you're talking about someone like Putin then I fail to see the nuance there. His actions speak louder than his words and there is nothing nuanced about them. Yeah, some things really are black and white. I'll stop here as this is not the page for that discussion.